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@Gordon L

Scaremongering? You have no idea or concept of what will happen and what you will be seeing.

Stop going on about your involvement with Foot & Mouth and your time in the armed forces which are both irrelevant. You have already been told by @atmosbob how UK mishandled that situation.

Carry on bashing China, it's your prerogative, but I will say this, they have handled the situation far better than the UK have, which every other country has followed, except the UK - What does that tell you?

UK 'tried' to follow a different path, which was clear for all to see that it was not going to work. This virus is unknown, the world had first hand experience on how to treat it, by testing and isolating, which all subsequent countries to be infected followed . . . .S Korea, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Macau, Singapore, Japan, Australia, Malaysia, Thailand, then when it reached Europe, all countries followed suit, bar UK, who followed a different strategy.

UK's testing procedures and testing quantities was (and still is) woefully inadequate. On average 10%-20% of the quantities other countries have tested. Without knowing who is infected, you cannot isolate and treat. (W.H.O saying this, not me)

It was only when they were challenged, that their 'model' was found to be wanting, with a projection of 250,000 anticipated dead (their figures, not mine).

They followed the strategy on herd immunity, then back tracked.

Read the twitter feed of The Times Science Editor, Tom Whipple, who was at a the meeting last night when 'The Model' was presented to journalists and discussed. It will open your eyes.

They allowed planes to continue to land, with zero checks and screening, which every other country took precautions against.

In short, they have let it get out of control, due to their own actions.

This is sheer incompetence and they have allowed the virus to spread out of control..

You are simply trying to defend the indefensible.

The fact that they do not have sufficient PPE is shameful.

Top medics should have seen what was happening in China in January and taking precautions at that time. To wait until this Monday, to scramble around to buy ICU ventilators is both laughable and pathetic.

Every ICU ventilator in stock has been snapped up by USA, Germany and yesterday Portugal bought the rest that was available. UK will have no ICU ventilators until JCB can start to produce, which will take months.

They do not even have enough basic masks or correct and sufficient PPE.

Is that how you think they should have been prepared?

Speak to GP's, speak to front line workers . . . .then tell me I'm wrong.

Stop trying to defend the indefensible.
 
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MY OFFICE IN CHINA said:
@Gordon L

the UK have, which every other country has followed, except the UK - What does that tell you
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Whilst I agree with much of what you post re this virus, the Dutch have also followed the UK initial actions. Whether they change course like the UK time will tell.

Not being privy too the full information it is impossible to know which approach is the best, common sense tells myself harsh measures will work better, but timing for peaks of infections might decide what measures will be considered at different times.

China, from my understanding seems to have got on top of this virus in most provinces, bar the Wuhan area. Even with their measures they might still see many more deaths.

I also notice China seems to be expelling many foreign journalists atm, maybe to cover more problems up?
 
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MY OFFICE IN CHINA said:
@Gordon L

Scaremongering? You have no idea or concept of what will happen and what you will be seeing.****Hysteria. We all know what is happening. Why, each tiome you opost, do you feel it necessary to keep up the hsyteria.

Stop going on about your involvement with Foot & Mouth and your time in the armed forces which are both irrelevant. You have already been told by @atmosbob how UK mishandled that situation***Why should I stop going on about this? Its far great experience than you have. If you don't want to listen, that's your ignorance. However I was there, it was to start with badly handled, and is a perfect example of how a bad situation was rescued. So sorry myoffice, but its real experience of helping to manage a situation; a darn sight more knowledge and experience than you have.

Carry on bashing China, it's your prerogative, but I will say this, they have handled the situation far better than the UK have, which every other country has followed, except the UK - What does that tell you? ***Yeah, that's subjective. You cant make that observation for at least another two months. Its pure hysteria on your part.

UK 'tried' to follow a different path, which was clear for all to see that it was not going to work. This virus is unknown, the world had first hand experience on how to treat it, by testing and isolating, which all subsequent countries to be infected followed . . . .S Korea, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Macau, Singapore, Japan, Australia, Malaysia, Thailand, then when it reached Europe, all countries followed suit, bar UK, who followed a different strategy. ****Well how do you know whether it will wor or not? this is the point, you are comparing the UK, which is well behind other countries from a timeline perspective. You simply cant make a proper comparison at this point. Again, pure , desperate, attention grabbing hysteria on your part.

UK's testing procedures and testing quantities was (and still is) woefully inadequate. On average 10%-20% of the quantities other countries have tested. Without knowing who is infected, you cannot isolate and treat. (W.H.O saying this, not me). ***Rubbish. See Sir Valance's comments today.

It was only when they were challenged, that their 'model' was found to be wanting, with a projection of 250,000 anticipated dead (their figures, not mine).

They followed the strategy on herd immunity, then back tracked. ***are you stupid? Herd immunity was not the strategy, but a secondary outcome. Get your facts right.

Read the twitter feed of The Times Science Editor, Tom Whipple, who was at a the meeting last night when 'The Model' was presented to journalists and discussed. It will open your eyes.

They allowed planes to continue to land, with zero checks and screening, which every other country took precautions against. ****You choose not to read the science. testing at airports doesn't work. It doesn't pick up on those many who have the virus but show no symptoms. Its lets the virus through. It doesn't work. Period. READ THE SCIENCE

In short, they have let it get out of control, due to their own actions. ***utter, utter rubbish. there is not a cat in hell's chance of controlling this. i have seen this at first hand (the experience I have which you chiose to ignore)- and you, bizarrely, seem to think you know how to control and defeat a virus outbreak.

This is sheer incompetence and they have allowed the virus to spread out of control..

You are simply trying to defend the indefensible. +++I am defendiong no one, but I am most certaionly attacking you for your shameful alarmism, defeatism and hysteria. Of course there are problems, and let's wait to see about these ventilators shall we.

You are jumping the gun on everything, you expect things to be achieved in a nanosecond. You are trying to scare us because you have nothing better to do.

All I have been saying is that you cannot make your profound 'better than thee' statements yet. It may be that you are right - but you cannot, cannot jump to the scaremongering assumptions you are making based on conversations with your son or whoever it is and the news sources you read in China. There is much going on in the UK beyond the front line which you - and I - are unaware of. We all know how dangerous it is, but you are cherry picking facts to suit your narrative, and this is disgraceful. And the fact you dismiss my highly experience of fighting a virus? Why would you do that? I've been there mate. You haven't.

You are hysterical, a dismissive Lord Haw Haw with nothing better to do than troll these pages with your negativity. We are in the sh!t, we know that. And we'll get ourselves out of it thank you. There are some bloody good people in this country and the fight will work, regardless of your attitude and alleged knowledge. Put your comments in perspective and mind your attitude.
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MBE2017 said:
I also notice China seems to be expelling many foreign journalists atm, maybe to cover more problems up?
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I'm not aware of any journalists being expelled in order to cover anything up. (there maybe a titi for tat situation with USA, that always happens, especially with Trump's dislike for China) There are many journalists and ex pats that will comment freely with what's going on in China, including myself.

We all know that every single government will not give accurate figures, including UK.

China, the size of the whole of Europe, with a population greater than the whole of Europe has managed to contain this virus, by thorough testing and isolation, which other countries in the Far East have followed.

W.H.O with their top medics were in China during February and inspected the methods used. They concluded that testing and isolation was the best strategy to follow.

Every government can follow it's own strategy, but the public can and will be up in arms if that strategy has been found to have killed many more people in this current stage and putting huge pressure on the healthcare system, which will inevitably stop patients of other ailments to be treated.

The projections of total deaths (250,000) coming out of the meeting yesterday is just alarming. Their new strategy is predicting 20,000 deaths. Their figures, not mine.

Compare those figures to countries in the Far East that had the virus before it arrived in Europe. For lessons not to have been learned on how to test, isolate and contain this virus is alarming.
 
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atmosbob said:
Really? F&M was a blxxdy disaster. Ask why it happened in the first place. UK government incompetence caused it.

When it was all over the govt compensated the farmers who caused it and refused to compensate the innocent businesses who last money over it. It caused my small business £35,000 in turnover and just over £10,000 in profit. Please don't tell me I am wrong to distrust the UK governmant.
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F&M was a disaster, you are quite right. But the 'defeat' and tackling of the virus wasn't; which was my point. We got a grip; alas there were casualties. As there are with this outbreak.
 
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MY OFFICE IN CHINA said:
I'm not aware of any journalists being expelled in order to cover anything up. (there maybe a titi for tat situation with USA, that always happens, especially with Trump's dislike for China) There are many journalists and ex pats that will comment freely with what's going on in China, including myself.

We all know that every single government will not give accurate figures, including UK.

China, the size of the whole of Europe, with a population greater than the whole of Europe has managed to contain this virus, by thorough testing and isolation, which other countries in the Far East have followed.

W.H.O with their top medics were in China during February and inspected the methods used. They concluded that testing and isolation was the best strategy to follow.

Every government can follow it's own strategy, but the public can and will be up in arms if that strategy has been found to have killed many more people in this current stage and putting huge pressure on the healthcare system, which will inevitably stop patients of other ailments to be treated.

The projections of total deaths (250,000) coming out of the meeting yesterday is just alarming. Their new strategy is predicting 20,000 deaths. Their figures, not mine.

Compare those figures to countries in the Far East that had the virus before it arrived in Europe. For lessons not to have been learned on how to test, isolate and contain this virus is alarming.
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Personally I trust the UK figures considerably more than those of China, who by the way refused to let WHO in, in January! The strategy China followed (which was not to acknowledge there was a problem, to get the police to make Doctors retract their statements and so on), to not collaborate with other countries, resulted in this virus spreading globally.

You totally ignore the fact that a virus is a virus - there is a huge, massive risk that the virus will re-emerge in China. It is beginning to increase again in HK and Singapore.
 
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Clodbuster said:
Long way to catch up to Swine flu (200k deaths) just a few years ago. I cannot remember there being such a fuss in 2010
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There actually was quite a fuss although the economy had already crashed a couple of years before so the after shock wasn't quite severe.
 
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@Gordon L

So, you're happy with the projected 250,000 deaths reported by the team who created/managed the model to follow?

And the affect that would have had on the NHS?

The UK government didn't and back tracked.

As I said, believe what you want to believe.
 
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worldometers.info reports 20 people in critical condition, has been exactly 20 for the last 4 days.

20 deaths reported today - and it’s still showing 20 critical.

I’m suspecting the figures reported are a load of bull sh&t
 
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I agree but if you are gonna publish false figures you don’t publish the same number for 5 days in a row. Only the British government can be that incompetent.

I’ve just tried registering for daily email updates on gov.uk, guess what, It didn’t work !
 
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A mortuary in the heart of London is being expanded to cope with the bodies of coronavirus victims.

Work began today at Westminster morgue, where the capacity to store 102 corpses is likely to be almost doubled to deal with the COVID-19 crisis.
 
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Front line medics being asked to work with infected patients without the necessary Personal Protective Equipment.

Front line medics who have been treating 'infected patients' have been told to carry on treating other patients, instead of being tested and isolated.

This is a disgrace.
 
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Yesterday 20 people listed as in critical condition.

Today 33 of them died !!

Are people with mild conditions now dropping dead ?

Today 20 people again in critical condition.
 
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I would not be surprised at any kind of action at the moment. I remember my time defending Her Maj, spent several weekends training for a royal funeral every time the Queen Mummy had a slight temperature, and this was back in the early eighties.
 
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The Guardian has a genius idea to solve all our problems. They want Jeremy Corbyn in government. :p

Yes, this is a war. And as in any war you need a coalition government. One idiot at the top is not enough, you need two.

Moving on to a different topic....

Folk, I have a confession to make; there is something I need to get off my chest. Those who know me and who've seen a few posts of mine will be totally shocked.

Here it is: On some days I wake up in a good mood.

Yes, seriously. On some days I wake up in a good mood.

Then I read the Guardian's website and normality is restored.
 
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It could be worse. Had an email from a cousin in Australia. Her husband has just self-isolated after sitting next to one of the Ministers, who has just been pronounced positive, at a dinner.

Before that she wore a mask for ages against the bushfire smoke. Then her car was written off by hail as big as cricket balls. Needless to say she is in the vulnerable age for the virus.
 
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OMGVape said:
I would not be surprised at any kind of action at the moment. I remember my time defending Her Maj, spent several weekends training for a royal funeral every time the Queen Mummy had a slight temperature, and this was back in the early eighties.
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There's an abundance of time for military training when the country isn't fighting overseas. Training that comes in handy when situations like this pop up.

When people say the army/navy exist solely to fire guns at people in 3rd world countries, it irritates me greatly. The British military spend a lot of time training for scenarios that may happen in the future, they also spend a great deal of time on humanitarian concerns across the globe: https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/what-we-do/providing-humanitarian-assistance
 
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Clinton said:
The Guardian has a genius idea to solve all our problems. They want Jeremy Corbyn in government. :p
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I've been a Guardian Supporter for a number of years and happily paid my £50 a year to support journalism.

I'm no BOJO fan and not voted Conservative a long time.

Seriously considering cancelling my Guardian support though, the daily briefs they send are atrocious, you would think at times like this they could at least hold back on the hostility a little.
 
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Could the issue have been made worse by Brexit and the additional restrictions placed on overseas workers coming to the UK: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/may/08/nhs-nursing-crisis-worsened-by-brexit-exodus << It's the Guardian but still.

I'm seeing two different worlds at the moment. Social media/press sounding alarm bells all over the place and telling everyone to self isolate, but in the real world the shops are busy, the streets are packed, car parks are full, the shelves are still being stripped. So much for distancing. People are more crammed together in queues than ever before.

When I went out last night, the local park had loads of people milling around, dog walkers, people in running groups.
 
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Italy surpasses China’s death toll from the Covid virus, another 427 dead in the last 24 hrs, Italy’s total now at 3405. Italy has extended its lockdown, indefinitely.

Truly heart breaking. Yet still some people think this is not as serious as people are trying to convey.
 
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Heart breaking report on tv from an Italian hospital, very high quality high standard health service, totally overwhelmed by this virus pandemic. In Italy it is now being called the Apocalypse.

The doctors have never seen anything like this before, nothing like flu, it is 50/50 whether you live, it is awful pneumonia, patients drowning in their lungs. The hospital was better equipped than any UK hospital I have seen.
 
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Italy: 13 doctors have died to-date, treating patients in hospitals.

Italy's health care system is rated as the second best in the world, after Japan.

For those that think that this is 'just like flu', should take note and think again.
 
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thetiger2015 said:
I'm seeing two different worlds at the moment. Social media/press sounding alarm bells all over the place and telling everyone to self isolate, but in the real world the shops are busy, the streets are packed, car parks are full, the shelves are still being stripped. So much for distancing. People are more crammed together in queues than ever before.
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There is massive ignorance in the UK. Most people do not read a newspaper. They switch channels if the news comes on TV. They do not read notices in shops about distancing. I am self isolating but had to pick up a prescription yesterday. Notice on the door about distancing but a guy pushed past two people assuming they were not queuing.
 
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atmosbob said:
There is massive ignorance in the UK. Most people do not read a newspaper. They switch channels if the news comes on TV. They do not read notices in shops about distancing. I am self isolating but had to pick up a prescription yesterday. Notice on the door about distancing but a guy pushed past two people assuming they were not queuing.
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I'm out in Spain. Got stopped by the Police yesterday because myself and my partner were holding hands whilst walking to the supermarket. Taking things very seriously out here, rightly so.
 
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