Chinese virus

[DontAsk]

Is this ludicrous panic buying a Southern thing?

Southerners and Waitrose customers, judging by the picture of a Waitrose in Sheffield.

 

[Newchodge]

Parts of Germany are now in lock-down!

Trading on Wall Street was stopped for 15m to prevent a share sell-off!

Boy, do humans like to scare themselves!

actually, the Wall Street stop was automatic after shares dropped a certain percentage. But yes, on balance people have, apparently, no ability to make a sensible risk assessment of the simplest things.

And I am still waiting for someone to explain how, if the virus is contagious/infectious before symptoms develop, and is as catching as has been suggested, any real form of containment is possible. If it isn't should we not just get on with it. The idea that 16 million people in Italy are in lockdown, while still being permitted to go wherever they wish and meet whoever they can, and while anyone with a valid business, medical or personal reason can leave the lockdown area, and the restrictions don't apply to tourists or business visitors, is a sensible precaution!. You're having a laugh!

 

[Mr D]

Please remember I'm only repeating what I read somewhere to add to the theories.

Although in saying that... are you forgetting how big both the countries are perhaps?

True, they are both large.
They have also both got large cities. Why one has tens of thousands diagnosed infected and one has double digits... ?
Does seem strange. Look at other countries around the region - presumably some similar climates, similar city living?
But are they getting tested in similar numbers?

Just saying we aren't seeing the whole story because no one is reporting 100% accuracy and doing all the testing needed.

 

[Mr D]

actually, the Wall Street stop was automatic after shares dropped a certain percentage. But yes, on balance people have, apparently, no ability to make a sensible risk assessment of the simplest things.

And I am still waiting for someone to explain how, if the virus is contagious/infectious before symptoms develop, and is as catching as has been suggested, any real form of containment is possible. If it isn't should we not just get on with it. The idea that 16 million people in Italy are in lockdown, while still being permitted to go wherever they wish and meet whoever they can, and while anyone with a valid business, medical or personal reason can leave the lockdown area, and the restrictions don't apply to tourists or business visitors, is a sensible precaution!. You're having a laugh!

Depends if you want 30,000 people needing intensive care in the maybe 1200 - 1500 beds available?
Can let things run their course, not take measures to prevent anyone vulnerable to dying from it from catching it. That's a chunk of the immune suppressed and low immune system people. Some of them children maybe, not just aged 80+.

 

[DontAsk]

Interesting graphics on the BBC website showing how pollution has cleared over China, due to the great shutdown https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-51691967

Doesn't take a great leap of imagination to figure that anyone getting a serious respiratory disease in an area of high air pollution is going to be majorly disadvantaged in their recovery!

 

[ComPropSolicitor]

drops in financial markets are not necessarily driven by panic - the ultra rich are well advised and full well know that what they do has a large impact. Most of them sell looking to spiral markets out of control and accumulate more stock at the bottom - gaining massively when the markets correct themselves 6 months later.

 

[Newchodge]

Depends if you want 30,000 people needing intensive care in the maybe 1200 - 1500 beds available?
Can let things run their course, not take measures to prevent anyone vulnerable to dying from it from catching it. That's a chunk of the immune suppressed and low immune system people. Some of them children maybe, not just aged 80+.

How does coralling 16 million people prevent 30,000 people needing IC beds?

 

[The Byre]

Germany update -

• The number of coronavirus cases in Germany has increased to 1112. (As reported by the Robert Koch Institute.)
• For the first time, a German has been proven to have died from the coronavirus. The 60-year-old Hamburg firefighter had traveled to Egypt a week ago.
• In view of the "dynamic development" Health Minister Spahn recommends the cancellation of events with more than 1000 people. France has decided to ban such events.
• In the soccer Bundesliga, 'ghost' games (i.e. without fans present) are being discussed. DFL manager Seifert also believes this scenario is likely.

The number of corona infections continues to rise significantly in Germany. While the Robert Koch Institute reported 902 cases on Sunday at 3 p.m., there were already 1112 cases on Monday morning (at 8 a.m.). Most affected are the densely populated countries of Bavaria and North Rhine-Westphalia. There are now infected people in almost all of the federal states, the only exception so far, according to official information, is Saxony-Anhalt. However, the 'Bild' newspaper reports that a doctor in the state is infected with the virus. In the meantime, up to 5000 people have been placed in domestic quarantine in Brandenburg.

France update -

France is banning major events with more than 1000 participants because of the epidemic. Health Minister Olivier Véran also announced on Sunday that recently retired medical professionals and medical students should be recruited to help fight the epidemic. "The coming weeks will be difficult," he said after a crisis meeting called by President Emmanuel Macron.

France saw a 19 percent increase in coronavirus cases to 1126 on Sunday. So far, 19 people have died from the new virus, Covid-19. Véran said demonstrations, exams and public transport could be exempted from the ban on large gatherings because they are "useful for the life of the country". The upcoming local elections could also take place next week, he indicated.

 

[Newchodge]

Germany update -

• The number of coronavirus cases in Germany has increased to 1112. (As reported by the Robert Koch Institute.)
• For the first time, a German has been proven to have died from the coronavirus. The 60-year-old Hamburg firefighter had traveled to Egypt a week ago.
• In view of the "dynamic development" Health Minister Spahn recommends the cancellation of events with more than 1000 people. France has decided to ban such events.
• In the soccer Bundesliga, 'ghost' games (i.e. without fans present) are being discussed. DFL manager Seifert also believes this scenario is likely.

The number of corona infections continues to rise significantly in Germany. While the Robert Koch Institute reported 902 cases on Sunday at 3 p.m., there were already 1112 cases on Monday morning (at 8 a.m.). Most affected are the densely populated countries of Bavaria and North Rhine-Westphalia. There are now infected people in almost all of the federal states, the only exception so far, according to official information, is Saxony-Anhalt. However, the 'Bild' newspaper reports that a doctor in the state is infected with the virus. In the meantime, up to 5000 people have been placed in domestic quarantine in Brandenburg.

France update -

France is banning major events with more than 1000 participants because of the epidemic. Health Minister Olivier Véran also announced on Sunday that recently retired medical professionals and medical students should be recruited to help fight the epidemic. "The coming weeks will be difficult," he said after a crisis meeting called by President Emmanuel Macron.

France saw a 19 percent increase in coronavirus cases to 1126 on Sunday. So far, 19 people have died from the new virus, Covid-19. Véran said demonstrations, exams and public transport could be exempted from the ban on large gatherings because they are "useful for the life of the country". The upcoming local elections could also take place next week, he indicated.

Only in France could demonstrations be considered useful for the life of the country. J'adore la France

 

[UKSBD]

drops in financial markets are not necessarily driven by panic - the ultra rich are well advised and full well know that what they do has a large impact. Most of them sell looking to spiral markets out of control and accumulate more stock at the bottom - gaining massively when the markets correct themselves 6 months later.

The Appeal - John Grisham

 

[UKSBD]

In the soccer Bundesliga, 'ghost' games (i.e. without fans present) are being discussed. DFL manager Seifert also believes this scenario is likely.

I wonder how many Man U fans are hoping this years Premier League is cancelled and 2019/20 declared void

 

[Gordon - Commercial Finance]

I wonder how many Man U fans are hoping this years Premier League is cancelled and 2019/20 declared void

All of them.

 

[ComPropSolicitor]

everywhere else cancelling meetings of more than 1000 people and here the UK is having one of the largest meetings of the year... what are the expected crowd figures 300,000? over the 5 days? can't really see how the government are scared of annoying the betting companies personally.

 

[Newchodge]

I would have thought that open air meetings and events would be preferable to small indoor gatherings.

 

[ComPropSolicitor]

looking out the window though? I doubt many are going to be stood for large periods outside. Lets hope the weather improves.

 

[UKSBD]

everywhere else cancelling meetings of more than 1000 people and here the UK is having one of the largest meetings of the year... what are the expected crowd figures 300,000? over the 5 days? can't really see how the government are scared of annoying the betting companies personally.

There will probably be an announcement cancelling events on the evening of the last day of the meeting.

It will only be a short ban though, Badminton is in May, Henley in July and god forbid them cancelling Wimbledon

 

[Deleted member 59730]

In view of the "dynamic development" Health Minister Spahn recommends the cancellation of events with more than 1000 people. France has decided to ban such events.

In the UK open air events like football not banned to prevent fans watching in crowded pubs!

 

[Mr D]

How does coralling 16 million people prevent 30,000 people needing IC beds?

Not corralling people will mean virus runs rampant.
Doing what they are doing - is it so different than the Chinese corralling people in cities / regions - except on a bigger scale?
Least in Italy they are trying to restrict some travel between regions so some of those corralled areas will be a million or two people.

Fancy trying restrictions by county in the UK?
I don't think we'd want it.

 

[Dimo]

The badminton All England starts on Wednesday 11th at Birmingham with visitors from the world over, not least from China. So far no announcement of cancellation or matches being played without spectators. Wouldn't surprise me if this changes. Meanwhile in France and Italy football matches are going to be played behind closed doors, and in the USA the Indian Wells tennis tournament has been postponed.

 

[MOIC]

5th person reported dead in the UK from the virus.

We are where Italy was 2 weeks ago. . . . . . . . .

Enough said.

 

[MOIC]

So, after the Cobra meeting today, the government are still assessing the situation to determine the right course of actions.

Meanwhile W.H.O have praised China for the actions it took, as well as the actions taken by other 'infected' countries.

Boris has his head up his @$&#!

I suspect that these decisions are being made as the advisors realise that the NHS are woefully unprepared to handle anything like what has happened in other 'infected' countries.

The economy will be better with a 'doing nothing' attitude . . . . . NOT.

 

[UKSBD]

The economy will be better with a 'doing nothing' attitude . . . . . NOT.

They have to get the balance right.

The number one cause for lower age death rates is inequality

Long term, substantial damage to the economy will probably cause far more deaths than coronavirus.

There are probably people, who have far more information than we have, number crunching and advising the Government what is for the best

"What ought a person to do?” The answer is that a person ought to act so as to produce the best consequences possible." - https://www.britannica.com/topic/utilitarianism-philosophy

Fortunately, we don't have to make the decisions.

 

[thetiger2015]

I suspect that these decisions are being made as the advisors realise that the NHS are woefully unprepared to handle anything like what has happened in other 'infected' countries.

The economy will be better with a 'doing nothing' attitude . . . . . NOT.

I'd imagine it covers quite a lot of bases for BoJo. Any negative impact to the economy, blame coronavirus. Any delays with Brexit negotations, blame coronavirus. As long as nothing comes back on them, it's fine.

Labour - silent. Probably because they'd also be in a sticky situation and they don't have anything else to suggest.

The NHS is completely unable to deal with this. All they keep saying is 'wash your hands'. They've got nothing else and the suggestion of bringing retired nurses back has been kicked out because it's not workable. You cannot bring people back in, if they're no longer registered and not trained in the latest health care guidelines.

They're hoping it will all blow over. Time for another cup of tea Margaret.

 

[thetiger2015]

There are probably people, who have far more information than we have, number crunching and advising the Government what is for the best

The best for.....whom? Government?

 

[MBE2017]

Seriously starting to think Italy might have a different strain of this virus, just heard on the radio over 40% of people in hospital are under 60. Doesn’t sound the same version of people are being affected as in other countries, or is it we are being given more accurate information?

Latest Italian figures released in last 30 mins

7985 official cases
4316 Hospitalised
735 in Intensive Care
463 Deaths.

 

[tony84]

Long term, substantial damage to the economy will probably cause far more deaths than coronavirus.

There are probably people, who have far more information than we have, number crunching and advising the Government what is for the best

Playing sports behind closed doors does not really harm anyone bar insurers in the short term.
You look at Old Trafford yesterday, 70,000 people in one place, that was very likely a breeding ground for this.

Allowing events with tens of thousands of people while spouting that you are trying to contain it is b/s. Either sit there and allow this to spread faster than it needs to or dont, but dont say you are doing the very opposite to what you are doing.

If a few countries are playing football games behind closed doors, there is a pretty good reason for it and I cant work out why we would not follow suit. I also cant understand why we are allowing people to fly in from Italy and China without compulsory isolation or if it can not be enforced, why are we not just stopping flights in to the country from those places.

I realise there is a balance, but at the minute we are chasing people after the event. It did not work with single digit numbers so why will it work now we are on 3 digit numbers probably 4 digit numbers by Thursday.

 

[MBE2017]

Useful page for anyone wanting the latest figures.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

 

[MOIC]

They have to get the balance right.

There are probably people, who have far more information than we have, number crunching and advising the Government what is for the best

Fortunately, we don't have to make the decisions.

I disagree.

Balance right? Allowing flights in from all infected countries with ZERO checks helping the situation? Please explain how that helps combating the spread of the virus in UK?

Too much number crunching going on. That's the problem.

This is only going to protract the situation as the virus will be out of control in the UK within a month. Look at what has happened in other countries, every country has contained the virus in order to keep figures down. Having a 'stiff upper lip' will not help when this virus is concerned. It infects all humans, not just those from the Far East & Italy.

 

[MOIC]

Seriously starting to think Italy might have a different strain of this virus, just heard on the radio over 40% of people in hospital are under 60. Doesn’t sound the same version of people are being affected as in other countries, or is it we are being given more accurate information?

The average age of those infected (not dying) in China is 51.

We do not have accurate numbers coming out of China for the past couple of weeks.

Information (ANY) coming out of Wuhan is being restricted and censored.

 

[MBE2017]

Hospital worker in Aintree Hospital has the virus, just recently returned from Italy, been working at the hospital since their return.

 

[Karimbo]

work in events, the worst industry to be in.

Had cancellations already.

 

[MBE2017]

The whole of Italy is now in lockdown.

“The whole of Italy is being put on lockdown as the country tries to contain the coronavirus outbreak.

Italy is the worst-hit nation in Europe with 463 virus-related deaths and more than 9,000 confirmed infections.

Around 60 million people will now effectively be placed under quarantine by the strict measures which had already been introduced in northern and some central areas over the weekend.”. Sky News

That escalated fast. Same for the UK in two weeks?

 

[MOIC]

The whole of Italy to be on lockdown.

. . . . .and still the planes arrive in the UK from all Italian cities, unscreened & unchecked.

They should be stopped.

 

[MOIC]

Sorry @MBE2017 - Just seen your post!

Seems we posted within a few seconds of each other!

 

[MOIC]

Same for the UK in two weeks?

Of course not! We are told that the experts and advisers advising Boris are using 'evidence based' facts for their decisions.

It's just that they are not looking at any evidence or facts from the countries that already have the outbreak in those countries (China & S Korea) and have managed to contain the virus, to a lesser or greater degree..

As it stands at the moment, the UK are letting everyone in, of which some will be carrying the virus and being allowed to spread the virus to all parts of the country.

At that point, they will not cope.

 

[ecommerce84]

I have a feeling our government is trying to kick the can down the road far enough to reach the Easter Holidays and then impose a lockdown.

Schools are closed, and most people will have plans for childcare provision in place so in that regard there would be less disruption (assuming those childcare plans are possible).

But it’s a very lucrative time for a lot of businesses.

And at that point cases could be in the tens of thousands.

 

[Mr D]

They have to get the balance right.

The number one cause for lower age death rates is inequality

Long term, substantial damage to the economy will probably cause far more deaths than coronavirus.

There are probably people, who have far more information than we have, number crunching and advising the Government what is for the best

"What ought a person to do?” The answer is that a person ought to act so as to produce the best consequences possible." - https://www.britannica.com/topic/utilitarianism-philosophy

Fortunately, we don't have to make the decisions.

Resolving inequality will not be done any time soon.
However messing the economy up for the next few years could be done in a day.
We have the virus here currently - we do not get know whether it will be annual.
Indications are that people can get it more than once so could be measures have to last months.

Shut local pubs - will any reopen in 3 months time?
Shut cinemas - will there be any demand left by summer?

There are no easy answers. There may be correct answers, there will certainly be awful answers.
Unfortunately we are stuck with politicians to make decisions.

 

[Mr D]

I disagree.

Balance right? Allowing flights in from all infected countries with ZERO checks helping the situation? Please explain how that helps combating the spread of the virus in UK?

Too much number crunching going on. That's the problem.

This is only going to protract the situation as the virus will be out of control in the UK within a month. Look at what has happened in other countries, every country has contained the virus in order to keep figures down. Having a 'stiff upper lip' will not help when this virus is concerned. It infects all humans, not just those from the Far East & Italy.

Probably fair to say that it is out of control now - opportunities existed to deal with it in January. It is now march and reported increase in infected in UK is double digit - in two weeks that could be four digit. If anyone is even bothering to check by then.
May end up simply reporting the hospitalisations which may be a fraction of those seriously ill.

 

[Mr D]

The whole of Italy is now in lockdown.

“The whole of Italy is being put on lockdown as the country tries to contain the coronavirus outbreak.

Italy is the worst-hit nation in Europe with 463 virus-related deaths and more than 9,000 confirmed infections.

Around 60 million people will now effectively be placed under quarantine by the strict measures which had already been introduced in northern and some central areas over the weekend.”. Sky News

That escalated fast. Same for the UK in two weeks?

Would people accept it if government tried imposing a lockdown?

 

[simon field]

Why are we surprised at having (mainly) the older, weaker, ill members of our species ‘thinned out’?

Isn’t that what nature does all the time?

Maybe we feel we’re too superior to have applied to us, what we often like to apply to other species against their will!