Chinese virus

[RobinBHM]

I bet Priti Patel is pleased about the virus.

and the govt -its going to hit just as EU trade start to get a bit tricky for them. they can bury the inevitable fishing controversy quite nicely.

"economy damaged by Brexit"
....."oh no Sir, it was due to Coronavirus" I can see Tories peddling that soon.

 

[ComPropSolicitor]

OOI - How well is a Country like India prepared to deal with a serious outbreak?

 

[Mr D]

OOI - How well is a Country like India prepared to deal with a serious outbreak?

You know, its strange.
India, 43 cases in over a month. Seems strange to have so few.
Going through multiple other places far faster - but not India. Lack of testing? Government not releasing collated figures?
Or correct - and simply not gaining hold there?

 

[DazRave]

You know, its strange.
India, 43 cases in over a month. Seems strange to have so few.
Going through multiple other places far faster - but not India. Lack of testing? Government not releasing collated figures?
Or correct - and simply not gaining hold there?

I thought the experts are saying it's due to the hot weather making it harder to spread/doesn't survive on surfaces for half as long?

 

[Clodbuster]

I've just returned from grocery shopping, Aldi. We were able to get everything we wanted including cleaning wipes, ibubrofen and loo roll. No-one seemed to be stocking their trolleys to the max. Is this ludicrous panic buying a Southern thing?

 

[CVRO]

Ever watch Yes Minister? And Yes Prime Minister?
Some quite funny things. Apparently the writers based the story of the show on real life - no way they could come up with stuff as funny.

So I find your explanation quite feasible.

I sure used to watch it.

I'd even venture that somebody in government is seriously considering the Rodhesia Solution:

 

[The Byre]

Is this ludicrous panic buying a Southern thing?

Anything stupid going on in the UK is usually confined to the South-East. Not always, but usually!

I was in London yet again and quite honestly, I could halve their traffic emissions and reduce their traffic problems within months - but nobody seems to want to do anything about the chaotic state of London traffic. Traffic lights are not coordinated. Most roads are two-way, resulting in blockages when someone needs to turn right. Building sites and roadworks are allowed to drag on for months because those doing the work do not have to pay by the day for the delays caused. Trucks and busses are allowed to enter the city with heavily polluting Diesel engines. The place makes your average Hong Kong riot look like a well-organised picnic at the WI.

As for Kent - are those roundabouts allowed to breed?

 

[CVRO]

Saudi's decision to cut oil prices, and ramp up production, spells a possible end to OPEC and a serious problem for countries like Russia relying on oil revenues (given the effect that has had on oil prices today).

Oil is threatening to drop below $30 a barrel, that's below cost of production in most places (which means their local industries will shut down while they switch to importing instead of producing).

I believe the target of Saudi's decision is actually the shale industry in the US. From 2014 to about 2016, Saudi was activelly trying to hurt the shale gas producers in the US. They failed then but they may have spotted an opportunity to have another goal at it now.

 

[ComPropSolicitor]

Everyone seems to assume that 'panic-buying' is taking place because people are worried about missing out on certain foods, etc, (which on a separate pointM I can tell you has happened with things like ibuprofen as Aldi near me has not had them for about 4 weeks - nor has, Superdrug or Tesco. Boots did but only their own brand)

However, I see - the 'panic-buying' more of a way of people 'stocking-up' so they don't have to venture into places where they are likely to pick up the virus? that's the way I see it anyway. For most people the two / three/ four places they are going to get this is from (1) supermarkets (2) work (3) schools / kids (4) sporting events / large gatherings.

People ultimately will stay away from (4) or they will be banned and (2) and (3) are unavoidable so (1) is the only one you can cut out of your daily life.

For what its worth - I have a friend in Italy and food is in short supply. Access to supermarkets etc is limited to only a certain number at a time and between certain hours. To be honest, if that's whats going to happen over here then people are only being 'organised'.

Although - people should only take what they need and not to the detriment of others or for financial gain.

 

[Mr D]

I thought the experts are saying it's due to the hot weather making it harder to spread/doesn't survive on surfaces for half as long?

And India is different from China, with whom it shares a border, how?

 

[tony84]

I might buy some shares in medical companies.

 

[Mr D]

Everyone seems to assume that 'panic-buying' is taking place because people are worried about missing out on certain foods, etc, (which on a separate pointM I can tell you has happened with things like ibuprofen as Aldi near me has not had them for about 4 weeks - nor has, Superdrug or Tesco. Boots did but only their own brand)

However, I see - the 'panic-buying' more of a way of people 'stocking-up' so they don't have to venture into places where they are likely to pick up the virus? that's the way I see it anyway. For most people the two / three/ four places they are going to get this is from (1) supermarkets (2) work (3) schools / kids (4) sporting events / large gatherings.

People ultimately will stay away from (4) or they will be banned and (2) and (3) are unavoidable so (1) is the only one you can cut out of your daily life.

For what its worth - I have a friend in Italy and food is in short supply. Access to supermarkets etc is limited to only a certain number at a time and between certain hours. To be honest, if that's whats going to happen over here then people are only being 'organised'.

Although - people should only take what they need and not to the detriment of others or for financial gain.

Talking to checkout lady at Morrisons an hour ago, they have sold out of toilet paper and soap every day.

Worst comes to the worst I've some tax guides to start using for toilet paper.

 

[DazRave]

And India is different from China, with whom it shares a border, how?

Please remember I'm only repeating what I read somewhere to add to the theories.

Although in saying that... are you forgetting how big both the countries are perhaps?

 

[ComPropSolicitor]

i'm no expert but when you see photographs of the trains etc in India the virus wouldn't need to be alive long outside of a 'host' to infect someone else... we are talking 100/200 tightly packed into a carriage for hundreds of miles.

 

[DazRave]

i'm no expert but when you see photographs of the trains etc in India the virus wouldn't need to be alive long outside of a 'host' to infect someone else... we are talking 100/200 tightly packed into a carriage for hundreds of miles.

I guess they are both similar in a way.

 

[Deleted member 59730]

I have a friend in Italy and food is in short supply. Access to supermarkets etc is limited to only a certain number at a time and between certain hours.

I found supermarkets, large ones, in Italy only open 1 3/4 hours after lunch and filling stations in big cities closed at 6:00

 

[The Byre]

Parts of Germany are now in lock-down!

Trading on Wall Street was stopped for 15m to prevent a share sell-off!

Boy, do humans like to scare themselves!

 

[ComPropSolicitor]

I was amazed to see that my high-risk share dealing account was only down £200 when I logged in before lunch time - I guess that's because its an investment portfolio... I wonder where or when the bottom is. I don't know whether to bother selling or not. Its a pension - and I am a long way away so I guess it would be better to top-up as opposed to sell.

 

[DontAsk]

Is this ludicrous panic buying a Southern thing?

Southerners and Waitrose customers, judging by the picture of a Waitrose in Sheffield.

 

[Newchodge]

Parts of Germany are now in lock-down!

Trading on Wall Street was stopped for 15m to prevent a share sell-off!

Boy, do humans like to scare themselves!

actually, the Wall Street stop was automatic after shares dropped a certain percentage. But yes, on balance people have, apparently, no ability to make a sensible risk assessment of the simplest things.

And I am still waiting for someone to explain how, if the virus is contagious/infectious before symptoms develop, and is as catching as has been suggested, any real form of containment is possible. If it isn't should we not just get on with it. The idea that 16 million people in Italy are in lockdown, while still being permitted to go wherever they wish and meet whoever they can, and while anyone with a valid business, medical or personal reason can leave the lockdown area, and the restrictions don't apply to tourists or business visitors, is a sensible precaution!. You're having a laugh!

 

[Mr D]

Please remember I'm only repeating what I read somewhere to add to the theories.

Although in saying that... are you forgetting how big both the countries are perhaps?

True, they are both large.
They have also both got large cities. Why one has tens of thousands diagnosed infected and one has double digits... ?
Does seem strange. Look at other countries around the region - presumably some similar climates, similar city living?
But are they getting tested in similar numbers?

Just saying we aren't seeing the whole story because no one is reporting 100% accuracy and doing all the testing needed.

 

[Mr D]

actually, the Wall Street stop was automatic after shares dropped a certain percentage. But yes, on balance people have, apparently, no ability to make a sensible risk assessment of the simplest things.

And I am still waiting for someone to explain how, if the virus is contagious/infectious before symptoms develop, and is as catching as has been suggested, any real form of containment is possible. If it isn't should we not just get on with it. The idea that 16 million people in Italy are in lockdown, while still being permitted to go wherever they wish and meet whoever they can, and while anyone with a valid business, medical or personal reason can leave the lockdown area, and the restrictions don't apply to tourists or business visitors, is a sensible precaution!. You're having a laugh!

Depends if you want 30,000 people needing intensive care in the maybe 1200 - 1500 beds available?
Can let things run their course, not take measures to prevent anyone vulnerable to dying from it from catching it. That's a chunk of the immune suppressed and low immune system people. Some of them children maybe, not just aged 80+.

 

[DontAsk]

Interesting graphics on the BBC website showing how pollution has cleared over China, due to the great shutdown https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-51691967

Doesn't take a great leap of imagination to figure that anyone getting a serious respiratory disease in an area of high air pollution is going to be majorly disadvantaged in their recovery!

 

[ComPropSolicitor]

drops in financial markets are not necessarily driven by panic - the ultra rich are well advised and full well know that what they do has a large impact. Most of them sell looking to spiral markets out of control and accumulate more stock at the bottom - gaining massively when the markets correct themselves 6 months later.

 

[Newchodge]

Depends if you want 30,000 people needing intensive care in the maybe 1200 - 1500 beds available?
Can let things run their course, not take measures to prevent anyone vulnerable to dying from it from catching it. That's a chunk of the immune suppressed and low immune system people. Some of them children maybe, not just aged 80+.

How does coralling 16 million people prevent 30,000 people needing IC beds?

 

[The Byre]

Germany update -

• The number of coronavirus cases in Germany has increased to 1112. (As reported by the Robert Koch Institute.)
• For the first time, a German has been proven to have died from the coronavirus. The 60-year-old Hamburg firefighter had traveled to Egypt a week ago.
• In view of the "dynamic development" Health Minister Spahn recommends the cancellation of events with more than 1000 people. France has decided to ban such events.
• In the soccer Bundesliga, 'ghost' games (i.e. without fans present) are being discussed. DFL manager Seifert also believes this scenario is likely.

The number of corona infections continues to rise significantly in Germany. While the Robert Koch Institute reported 902 cases on Sunday at 3 p.m., there were already 1112 cases on Monday morning (at 8 a.m.). Most affected are the densely populated countries of Bavaria and North Rhine-Westphalia. There are now infected people in almost all of the federal states, the only exception so far, according to official information, is Saxony-Anhalt. However, the 'Bild' newspaper reports that a doctor in the state is infected with the virus. In the meantime, up to 5000 people have been placed in domestic quarantine in Brandenburg.

France update -

France is banning major events with more than 1000 participants because of the epidemic. Health Minister Olivier Véran also announced on Sunday that recently retired medical professionals and medical students should be recruited to help fight the epidemic. "The coming weeks will be difficult," he said after a crisis meeting called by President Emmanuel Macron.

France saw a 19 percent increase in coronavirus cases to 1126 on Sunday. So far, 19 people have died from the new virus, Covid-19. Véran said demonstrations, exams and public transport could be exempted from the ban on large gatherings because they are "useful for the life of the country". The upcoming local elections could also take place next week, he indicated.

 

[Newchodge]

Germany update -

• The number of coronavirus cases in Germany has increased to 1112. (As reported by the Robert Koch Institute.)
• For the first time, a German has been proven to have died from the coronavirus. The 60-year-old Hamburg firefighter had traveled to Egypt a week ago.
• In view of the "dynamic development" Health Minister Spahn recommends the cancellation of events with more than 1000 people. France has decided to ban such events.
• In the soccer Bundesliga, 'ghost' games (i.e. without fans present) are being discussed. DFL manager Seifert also believes this scenario is likely.

The number of corona infections continues to rise significantly in Germany. While the Robert Koch Institute reported 902 cases on Sunday at 3 p.m., there were already 1112 cases on Monday morning (at 8 a.m.). Most affected are the densely populated countries of Bavaria and North Rhine-Westphalia. There are now infected people in almost all of the federal states, the only exception so far, according to official information, is Saxony-Anhalt. However, the 'Bild' newspaper reports that a doctor in the state is infected with the virus. In the meantime, up to 5000 people have been placed in domestic quarantine in Brandenburg.

France update -

France is banning major events with more than 1000 participants because of the epidemic. Health Minister Olivier Véran also announced on Sunday that recently retired medical professionals and medical students should be recruited to help fight the epidemic. "The coming weeks will be difficult," he said after a crisis meeting called by President Emmanuel Macron.

France saw a 19 percent increase in coronavirus cases to 1126 on Sunday. So far, 19 people have died from the new virus, Covid-19. Véran said demonstrations, exams and public transport could be exempted from the ban on large gatherings because they are "useful for the life of the country". The upcoming local elections could also take place next week, he indicated.

Only in France could demonstrations be considered useful for the life of the country. J'adore la France

 

[UKSBD]

drops in financial markets are not necessarily driven by panic - the ultra rich are well advised and full well know that what they do has a large impact. Most of them sell looking to spiral markets out of control and accumulate more stock at the bottom - gaining massively when the markets correct themselves 6 months later.

The Appeal - John Grisham

 

[UKSBD]

In the soccer Bundesliga, 'ghost' games (i.e. without fans present) are being discussed. DFL manager Seifert also believes this scenario is likely.

I wonder how many Man U fans are hoping this years Premier League is cancelled and 2019/20 declared void

 

[Gordon - Commercial Finance]

I wonder how many Man U fans are hoping this years Premier League is cancelled and 2019/20 declared void

All of them.

 

[ComPropSolicitor]

everywhere else cancelling meetings of more than 1000 people and here the UK is having one of the largest meetings of the year... what are the expected crowd figures 300,000? over the 5 days? can't really see how the government are scared of annoying the betting companies personally.

 

[Newchodge]

I would have thought that open air meetings and events would be preferable to small indoor gatherings.

 

[ComPropSolicitor]

looking out the window though? I doubt many are going to be stood for large periods outside. Lets hope the weather improves.

 

[UKSBD]

everywhere else cancelling meetings of more than 1000 people and here the UK is having one of the largest meetings of the year... what are the expected crowd figures 300,000? over the 5 days? can't really see how the government are scared of annoying the betting companies personally.

There will probably be an announcement cancelling events on the evening of the last day of the meeting.

It will only be a short ban though, Badminton is in May, Henley in July and god forbid them cancelling Wimbledon

 

[Deleted member 59730]

In view of the "dynamic development" Health Minister Spahn recommends the cancellation of events with more than 1000 people. France has decided to ban such events.

In the UK open air events like football not banned to prevent fans watching in crowded pubs!

 

[Mr D]

How does coralling 16 million people prevent 30,000 people needing IC beds?

Not corralling people will mean virus runs rampant.
Doing what they are doing - is it so different than the Chinese corralling people in cities / regions - except on a bigger scale?
Least in Italy they are trying to restrict some travel between regions so some of those corralled areas will be a million or two people.

Fancy trying restrictions by county in the UK?
I don't think we'd want it.

 

[Dimo]

The badminton All England starts on Wednesday 11th at Birmingham with visitors from the world over, not least from China. So far no announcement of cancellation or matches being played without spectators. Wouldn't surprise me if this changes. Meanwhile in France and Italy football matches are going to be played behind closed doors, and in the USA the Indian Wells tennis tournament has been postponed.

 

[MOIC]

5th person reported dead in the UK from the virus.

We are where Italy was 2 weeks ago. . . . . . . . .

Enough said.

 

[MOIC]

So, after the Cobra meeting today, the government are still assessing the situation to determine the right course of actions.

Meanwhile W.H.O have praised China for the actions it took, as well as the actions taken by other 'infected' countries.

Boris has his head up his @$&#!

I suspect that these decisions are being made as the advisors realise that the NHS are woefully unprepared to handle anything like what has happened in other 'infected' countries.

The economy will be better with a 'doing nothing' attitude . . . . . NOT.

 

[UKSBD]

The economy will be better with a 'doing nothing' attitude . . . . . NOT.

They have to get the balance right.

The number one cause for lower age death rates is inequality

Long term, substantial damage to the economy will probably cause far more deaths than coronavirus.

There are probably people, who have far more information than we have, number crunching and advising the Government what is for the best

"What ought a person to do?” The answer is that a person ought to act so as to produce the best consequences possible." - https://www.britannica.com/topic/utilitarianism-philosophy

Fortunately, we don't have to make the decisions.