Chinese virus
- Thread starter Chris Ashdown
- Start date
D
Deleted member 59730
I no longer use suppliers in Italy. My old company does but they are more affected by exchange rates than the virus. Printing is shipped out in a package on CD, comes back on multiple pallets. They now have a printer in Cornwall that do quicker turnaround but more expensive. A big problem on price is that our specified paper is more expensive in the UK than Italy because the Finnish mill go through a UK merchant.
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Is there not a possibility that in preventing people from going out & about in the fresh air they have unwittingly crammed people together allowing the virus to easily spread from person to person?
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D
Deleted member 59730
I think we will find when the dust settles that there are social factors in each country which affect outcomes.
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I didn't mean from a business perspective. I meant the situation that the virus has caused Lombardy to be on total lockdown. Scaremongering by the Italians?
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No. Thats the reason the China authorities did what they did, when they did. This was also agreed with by all the 'experts' from W.H.O who were in China last month to investigate the spread of the virus.
What I don't understand is, why isn't the UK government listening to what W.H.O have advised, after getting first hand information from China from the 'coalface'?
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That has to be a possibility. What I find interesting is that there do not (in the UK at least) appear to be familial clusters. If the disease is as catching as the medical evidence suggests you would expect every member of the household to be infected if 1 person is, but that does not seem to be happening. Even among the large percentage of those with the virus in the UK who are being treated at home.
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If I was to hazard a guess, it would be that Italian companies with 'factories' in China send their technicians and engineers there to oversee production on a regular basis. Italians will not live in China (They cannot get on with the food or culture) so frequently travel to and from China. Just a guess.
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1. Accurate figures probably not being given out. (To protect the economy).
2. Ask me this question in 2 weeks time.
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The most proactive?
Missed that one. Was under the impression they were like us, waiting for people to turn up sick.
Later on they changed their methods. However as this virus has a period of not showing symptoms but being infectious there are plenty who were spreading it before locking down areas.
The mortality rate may well be due to the differences in healthcare.
Haven't heard that Italian healthcare is that much different than British. We will find out soon enough.
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Good point. Based on the lack of it being reported and some anecdotal evidence, including the family of the second person to die stating that they could not arrange the funeral as they were in isolation for 14 days.
EDIT: Plus if you look at these figures (which are apparently from yesterday) there are few multiple cases in the same local authority area.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...ronavirus-covid-19-number-of-cases-in-england
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There will be familial clusters.
Fast forward a time period after infection, until the person with the virus becomes infectious there won't be much happening. Then once they are, figure a couple of weeks to become positive for the virus.
The baseline 3 weeks ago was how many infected? Some of whom wouldn't be living with family presumably?
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D
Deleted member 59730
The virus reached Italy from Germany. The virus reached UK from Italy.
Quite why so many schoolkids went skiing in Italy on school trips. What is educational or cultural about skiing?
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Currently the most proactive in Europe.
Locking down towns and all of Lombardy. Have been screening airport passengers leaving and arriving, closing schools, offices . . . . . . .
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There will not have been just one point of entry. Many Italians are in China on business. Many in the motor industry (Wuhan is a major manufacturer of auto parts). Additionally 9 Italians have returned to China in the past 2 days and have been confirmed to have the virus. They have been quarantined.
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Presumably they are being the most pro active because they have the biggest outbreak.
If they had done this on day 1, I imagine the numbers would be much lower, but I appreciate doing it on day one could have been seen as a little drastic.
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Decisions have to be made at some point. They made the decision based on not only what happened in Italy, but also the track record of other countries infected with the virus.
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Hence the decision to try to contain it and stop it spreading at a higher rate.
Stop being Mr D!
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T
The Byre
Report today from Italy - a taste of what is to come in the UK.
Sunday, the Italian government announced new measures to combat the spread of the coronavirus.
Public facilities such as museums and swimming pools remain closed. Schools will not open again until early April.
The Vatican decided to hold the Pope's Sunday Angelus prayer via live stream and St. Peter's Square remains closed.
Italy has sealed off its north, the heart of its economy. All of Lombardy, as well as fourteen provinces of Veneto, Emilia Romagna, Piedmont and the Marches, are now part of a security zone that can only be entered and exited by anyone who has "undelayable" motives. It says in a new government decree that the Italians are trying to curb the spread of the coronavirus. 16 million people are affected.
After a long crisis session by his cabinet, Italian Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte told the media on Sunday night that it was not a "total blockade". Trains and flights will continue to run. "These are very rigorous measures."
This also includes the closure of all museums, theaters, cinemas, fitness centers, cultural institutes, swimming pools and ski resorts. The schools, which were originally supposed to remain closed until mid-March, will reopen in the security zone at the earliest in early April. In addition to Lombardy, the following provinces are specifically named: Venice, Treviso, Padua, Modena, Parma, Piacenza, Reggio Emilia, Rimini, Pesaro, Urbino, Asti, Novara, Alessandria, Verbano Cusio Ossola and Vercelli.
Weddings, funerals and religious processions are prohibited. Shopping centers in these areas may only be open from Monday to Friday in the coming weeks. Bars and restaurants can continue, provided that their premises are so large that customers can keep at least one meter apart. The police can immediately close a restaurant that does not comply with the regulations. And they are allowed to stop people who are in the car and ask why they are on the road - even if they are within the security zone. All of Italy is also prohibited from opening pubs, discotheques and casinos, until April 3 for the time being.
He was aware of the scope of the decree, said Conte, the measures were unprecedented: "I take full political responsibility for this."
The presidents of the regions of Lombardy and Emilia Romagna, Attilio Fontana from the right Lega and Stefano Bonaccini from the Social Democrats, were initially irritated by the package. It creates confusion, they said. "Nobody knows what they are supposed to do now."
Part of the confusion stems from the fact that leaked drafts of the decree went through the internet in the hours before Conte's announcement. As a result, dozens of southern Italians living in Milan headed to Stazione Centrale, the main train station, to quickly get to their home town before everything was blocked. Many didn't even have a ticket. Conte now assured that family reunifications in emergencies would still be possible.
The government considers it necessary to tighten its measures because the number of infections has increased far faster than expected in recent days - the peak does not yet appear to have been reached. The health system in the north is increasingly reaching its limits, especially in those hospitals that treat infected people in the intensive care unit. Conte announced that it had hired 20,000 doctors and nurses from other regions of the country and from private clinics to alleviate the stressful situation. Humanitarian organizations such as MSF offered their help.
5883 cases of infection are currently known in Italy, most of them in Lombardy. Since the outbreak of the epidemic, 233 people have died from or with the virus. Angelo Borrelli, the head of national civil protection and special commissioner in the crisis, said at the weekend that the average age of the deceased was 81. Men between 80 and 100 are the most vulnerable population group. Only two percent of the victims had been healthy before the infection, said Borrelli. Everyone else was already seriously ill when they became infected, and the majority suffered from heart and lung problems.
Borrelli insisted that Italians adhere to a "pact of responsibility". It was time that the superficial handling of the risk, finally stopped. For example, that an elderly couple from Codogno, the likely source of the virus in Italy, disregarded the decision to block the "Zona rossa" there and went skiing in Trentino. Both are infected with the pathogen and are now being treated in Trento.
Only football should go on - at least for now and without spectators. The Milan newspaper "Corriere della Sera" writes that this is the right thing to do because footballers want to give Italians a little bit of joy in these unpleasant times.
The player union president, former professional Damiano Tommasi, called for an immediate end to the Series A championships, Italy's top league. Others think that a month's break is enough. Minister of Sport Vincenzo Spadafora believes that the schedule should be maintained, the games should simply take place in closed stadiums. He demanded that the pay-TV stations make the games free to everyone, which does not sound likely! The head of the association, in turn, believes that the championship games can continue until a player is tested positive for the coronavirus.
Nicola Zingaretti, the chairman of the co-governing Partito Democratico and governor of the Lazio region, was also infected. He reported on Facebook from his home that he was fine and was fighting the disease. Since Zingaretti has been in contact with many people in the recently, other politicians and ministers are now also in self-quarantine.
The Vatican decided that the Pope's Sunday Angelus prayer would initially be streamed out of the library at the Apostolic Palace. Francis will therefore no longer show up at the window for a while, St. Peter's Square will be closed.
_______________________________________________________________
P.S. My 30 cents worth - the economic effects may prove more deadly than the virus itself, but then poorer people dying younger in the months and years to come is not a statistic that gets collected!
Sunday, the Italian government announced new measures to combat the spread of the coronavirus.
Public facilities such as museums and swimming pools remain closed. Schools will not open again until early April.
The Vatican decided to hold the Pope's Sunday Angelus prayer via live stream and St. Peter's Square remains closed.
Italy has sealed off its north, the heart of its economy. All of Lombardy, as well as fourteen provinces of Veneto, Emilia Romagna, Piedmont and the Marches, are now part of a security zone that can only be entered and exited by anyone who has "undelayable" motives. It says in a new government decree that the Italians are trying to curb the spread of the coronavirus. 16 million people are affected.
After a long crisis session by his cabinet, Italian Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte told the media on Sunday night that it was not a "total blockade". Trains and flights will continue to run. "These are very rigorous measures."
This also includes the closure of all museums, theaters, cinemas, fitness centers, cultural institutes, swimming pools and ski resorts. The schools, which were originally supposed to remain closed until mid-March, will reopen in the security zone at the earliest in early April. In addition to Lombardy, the following provinces are specifically named: Venice, Treviso, Padua, Modena, Parma, Piacenza, Reggio Emilia, Rimini, Pesaro, Urbino, Asti, Novara, Alessandria, Verbano Cusio Ossola and Vercelli.
Weddings, funerals and religious processions are prohibited. Shopping centers in these areas may only be open from Monday to Friday in the coming weeks. Bars and restaurants can continue, provided that their premises are so large that customers can keep at least one meter apart. The police can immediately close a restaurant that does not comply with the regulations. And they are allowed to stop people who are in the car and ask why they are on the road - even if they are within the security zone. All of Italy is also prohibited from opening pubs, discotheques and casinos, until April 3 for the time being.
He was aware of the scope of the decree, said Conte, the measures were unprecedented: "I take full political responsibility for this."
The presidents of the regions of Lombardy and Emilia Romagna, Attilio Fontana from the right Lega and Stefano Bonaccini from the Social Democrats, were initially irritated by the package. It creates confusion, they said. "Nobody knows what they are supposed to do now."
Part of the confusion stems from the fact that leaked drafts of the decree went through the internet in the hours before Conte's announcement. As a result, dozens of southern Italians living in Milan headed to Stazione Centrale, the main train station, to quickly get to their home town before everything was blocked. Many didn't even have a ticket. Conte now assured that family reunifications in emergencies would still be possible.
The government considers it necessary to tighten its measures because the number of infections has increased far faster than expected in recent days - the peak does not yet appear to have been reached. The health system in the north is increasingly reaching its limits, especially in those hospitals that treat infected people in the intensive care unit. Conte announced that it had hired 20,000 doctors and nurses from other regions of the country and from private clinics to alleviate the stressful situation. Humanitarian organizations such as MSF offered their help.
5883 cases of infection are currently known in Italy, most of them in Lombardy. Since the outbreak of the epidemic, 233 people have died from or with the virus. Angelo Borrelli, the head of national civil protection and special commissioner in the crisis, said at the weekend that the average age of the deceased was 81. Men between 80 and 100 are the most vulnerable population group. Only two percent of the victims had been healthy before the infection, said Borrelli. Everyone else was already seriously ill when they became infected, and the majority suffered from heart and lung problems.
Borrelli insisted that Italians adhere to a "pact of responsibility". It was time that the superficial handling of the risk, finally stopped. For example, that an elderly couple from Codogno, the likely source of the virus in Italy, disregarded the decision to block the "Zona rossa" there and went skiing in Trentino. Both are infected with the pathogen and are now being treated in Trento.
Only football should go on - at least for now and without spectators. The Milan newspaper "Corriere della Sera" writes that this is the right thing to do because footballers want to give Italians a little bit of joy in these unpleasant times.
The player union president, former professional Damiano Tommasi, called for an immediate end to the Series A championships, Italy's top league. Others think that a month's break is enough. Minister of Sport Vincenzo Spadafora believes that the schedule should be maintained, the games should simply take place in closed stadiums. He demanded that the pay-TV stations make the games free to everyone, which does not sound likely! The head of the association, in turn, believes that the championship games can continue until a player is tested positive for the coronavirus.
Nicola Zingaretti, the chairman of the co-governing Partito Democratico and governor of the Lazio region, was also infected. He reported on Facebook from his home that he was fine and was fighting the disease. Since Zingaretti has been in contact with many people in the recently, other politicians and ministers are now also in self-quarantine.
The Vatican decided that the Pope's Sunday Angelus prayer would initially be streamed out of the library at the Apostolic Palace. Francis will therefore no longer show up at the window for a while, St. Peter's Square will be closed.
_______________________________________________________________
P.S. My 30 cents worth - the economic effects may prove more deadly than the virus itself, but then poorer people dying younger in the months and years to come is not a statistic that gets collected!
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Milan also included in the quarantine area. Free roaming within the quarantine area will be allowed.
The timing has yet to be determined, could happen at some point today and this will depend on the military arriving to help enforce it.
Currently trains are still leaving Milan station for other cities within Italy as well as outside of Italy, but unsure of the response of authorities when they arrive at their destination (outside of Italy).
Italians will be the barometer of how the west will react to a 'limited' lockdown of a whole city.
We all wait . . . . . . .
The timing has yet to be determined, could happen at some point today and this will depend on the military arriving to help enforce it.
Currently trains are still leaving Milan station for other cities within Italy as well as outside of Italy, but unsure of the response of authorities when they arrive at their destination (outside of Italy).
Italians will be the barometer of how the west will react to a 'limited' lockdown of a whole city.
We all wait . . . . . . .
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Hence the decision to try to contain it and stop it spreading at a higher rate.
Stop being Mr D!
Oh they will do that all right, slowing the spread across artificial borders. While containing it within those borders.
Just saying it would have helped if they had done it sooner.
An example already in China's actions. But not seen as a threat???
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Darn, all those people who collect statistics about poorer people who die will suddenly be out of work.
Whatever will they do?
Funnily enough just applied for a job a few minutes ago, 100% working from home. Could cope with my village being restricted for 3 weeks.
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Ive just been shopping - not panic buying (I only spent about £25) - and it was busy, but only slightly busier than normal. To be honest, I was in and out in about 20 minutes, so it is not like there were massive queues.
Plenty of paracetamol, pasta, toilet rolls(!) etc. The only thing that has sold out is the hand steriliser stuff. There really does not appear to be a shortage of food at the minute. But were northerners, were not like those southern lot who worry at the thought of no avocados for a week
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