Chinese virus

[Mr D]

of course, but with theme park's, people generally touch the same surfaces (harness's, handrails etc) more than other attractions.

Inside or outside?

 

[Chris Ashdown]

It would be nice if the supermarkets had someone outside disinfecting the trolly handles and show they care a small bit about their customers, even a slight reduction in risk would be better than nothing

 

[MBE2017]

It would be nice if the supermarkets had someone outside disinfecting the trolly handles and show they care a small bit about their customers, even a slight reduction in risk would be better than nothing

A home delivery driver for one of the main supermarkets was on a radio call in show this am, mentioning they had no gloves or hand sanitizer issued to them, thus allowing them to possibly infect people during deliveries. He reckoned it would be at least another week before they had any hand sanitizer given to them.

 

[Mr D]

It would be nice if the supermarkets had someone outside disinfecting the trolly handles and show they care a small bit about their customers, even a slight reduction in risk would be better than nothing

Perhaps they do. Just you don't see it.

My trolley handle today was damp - right across the bar. Its not rained in the area today.
Either a bunch of people with sweaty hands have been using that trolley in a short period of time or someone has wiped it.
Staff, customers, whatever.

 

[Mr D]

Was in Morrisons a short while ago.
Hand soap section completely empty. Toilet roll section almost empty. Snagged the last 2 packs of 4 andrex toilet paper.
And deodorant section mostly empty.
Condoms were in short supply too.

Lots more people there than usual at this time on a Friday.

Milk section sold out of 1 and 2 pint bottles, half empty section of 4 pints and 6 pints.

 

[OMGVape]

that's both sad and worrying, we aren't really doing enough at the moment and we just going to be in the exact same situation in 2 weeks.

I think we are going to be in a slightly worse situation in 2 weeks!

 

[DontAsk]

I went tesco before, it was a strange atmosphere. Everyone trying to keep a distance, very quiet etc.

Local Tesco: One person with a mask, one with kitchen towel round the trolley handle, but definite panic buying of tissues and loo rolls. No hand sanitizer left.

 

[Mr D]

I think we are going to be in a slightly worse situation in 2 weeks!

Judging by the past few days, we'll be measuring UK infected in the thousands. Or tens of thousands. And the dead in double digits.

 

[Mr D]

inside or outside attractions?

Well usually would refer to inside or outside a building but whatever suits you.

Difference in UV. Which impacts time virus can survive outside body.

 

[Mr D]

Here is an update for someone living in China from another site.


It has been almost a month since I last posted an update of what it is like here in China. So much has changed between then and now - clearly the pressing and urgent matter is the spread of the virus around the globe and the rate of increases of cases in multiple countries.

In Shanghai, the city is back to life this past week. It has slowly been coming back for the past 2 weeks or so, but this week is the first it has felt like daily activity is getting back to normal. Restaurants, stores, banks, offices - of which many had been closed for over a month are open once again. Traffic jams are back to a regular occurrence and many are walking the sidewalks where just a few weeks ago they were completely empty.

Over the last week, Shanghai has had only two newly confirmed cases, one of which was detected during a mandatory quarantine period in a traveler who arrived from Iran.

There is a lot of optimism that the worst is over, and hope that soon the city will be declared virus free. This is also the case in many other cities and provinces throughout China. Hubei province still suffers, but signs of improvement there are also encouraging.

As the virus spreads globally, I want to highlight the containment and prevention measures China has implemented, why they have worked, and why I believe countries around the world need to implement similar measures starting now.

In order for transmission to occur, the virus needs to come in contact with other humans. The first major measures China implemented were focused on social distancing and isolation. Areas where the virus was most prevalent were locked down, staring with Wuhan, expanding to Hubei province, and even to other cities with large pockets of the virus detected. In these lockdowns, people were not allowed to come into or leave these areas. Gatherings of people such as conventions, sporting events, movie theaters, gyms, etc. were immediately cancelled or closed. Offices and workplaces closed completely, the few restaurants that remained opened, only allowed take out food, no dining in. People were encouraged multiple times a day to stay home. The thing that amazed me as a westerner, was that everyone complied. The level of social distancing and isolation was extreme and necessary. Even today, as the city comes back to life this remains. Starbucks only allows one person per table so as to ensure people remain at a distance from one another.

The second measures put into place were focused on community transmission prevention. Encouragement to wash and disinfect hands regularly was plastered everywhere and was mentioned all over the news. In order to be outside at all it was necessary to be wearing a mask, to enter buildings, restaurants grocery stores, you were required to wear a mask and given hand sanitizer before entering. Buses, taxis, subways, Didi (Chinese Uber), all required masks to be worn. Public transit, transit stations, public restrooms were disinfected multiple times a day. In the elevators, boxes of tissues were placed for people to take one and use it as a cover to push buttons. Confined spaces often smelled of cleaning solution. My own apartment building came to disinfect my apartment unit during the height of cases in Shanghai. Everyone still wears masks, everyone still immediately washes their hands when they return home or uses disinfectant before eating.

Third major measures were focused on case discovery and treatment. Upon discovery of a confirmed case, quick and effective contact tracing measures were put into place. Public areas would take your name and phone number before allowing you to enter, in the event someone there later was determined positive, they could contact you and find you quickly. This moved digitally in QR code-based systems, were you would scan various locations, buses, taxis, subways, etc. and be able to be contacted and located quickly. To enter any public area, your temperature is taken. Residential communities issued passes for healthy residents when they would leave their homes, and would only be allowed back in by returning their pass and being checked for temperature again. Anyone found to be symptomatic was promptly taken to fever clinics, normally used for quick check-ups and prescriptions that had now become front line triage. At the fever clinic, you will be tested and examined. If it you are a suspected case you will be put under mandatory quarantine, this could be at a designated facility or at your home, if you are not immediately suspected you are asked to self-quarantine, in either case, your community (most are large apartment buildings or compounds of buildings) are informed of your status. This to let others know to be vigilant, and to ensure community helps with enforcement of quarantine and helps with providing supplies to those who are quarantined. If confirmed, usually within 24 hours of testing, patients are immediately transferred to one of two designated hospitals for COVID-19. Or the designated children's hospital for minors. (at least this is how it is in Shanghai). These measures are still in place today. It is almost impossible to leave your home without getting monitored by the entire community. If you show any signs of symptoms you will go in for testing and checkup, and your close contacts will be identified very quickly and also monitored.

Lastly, China implemented external controls to monitor and quarantine travellers both from other cities and provinces within China as well as from abroad.

In summary

1. Limit the potential exposure to the virus by keeping people away from each other
2. For the virus that is out there, disinfect rigorously, kill as much of the virus that is out in the community as possible to lessen the chance healthy people will contact the virus in the community. This includes individual efforts and community-based disinfection efforts.
3. Aggressively find potential cases and their contacts. Increase the already strict isolation controls on people confirmed, suspected, and potential contacts of those suspected or confirmed. Have a quick system
4. Limit movement of people to ensure clusters in one area don't become clusters in another area. Lockdown cities and communities, quarantine travellers.

These measures have worked. The proof is here. As said previously, what amazes me as a westerner was the willingness and the desire of the people to take these actions and take them seriously. Full scale adoption and compliance from the people. Absolutely incredible. And this is what it takes.

I hope the west can get it together. I hope they can take this seriously and act now. I hope the people will respond the way I have seen the Chinese people respond. China has also shown that early mistakes can be fixed if addressed and acted upon. Mistakes made now by countries recently impacted can still do what is necessary to stop the large scale spread.

Hopefully that is not just an authorised broadcast by the state.
But yes, restricting ability for virus to spread has an impact.

Question now is - will the virus surge again including in those who have already had it?
People able to move around, interact etc - an ember can still become a raging fire.

Though unlike some countries I expect people will take considerable personal precautions still.

 

[Gordon L]

The quick measures in China doesn't solve the overarching issue of a country which is filthy, has diabolical food and hygiene laws and so on.

That said, if this blog is true (and there is a big 'if' because several similar blogs have been found to be highly questionable; ie written by the Chinese State) then there are some measures which seem on the face of it, sensible.

 

[tony84]

And deodorant section mostly empty.
Condoms were in short supply too.

Sounds like one of my mates has been there before his Friday night out

 

[MBE2017]

The big question is whether China has stopped the virus spreading with their measures, or are they lying? Very early to be certain, various reports of previous infections re-occurring after the patient was thought to be cured.

I think the UK is just beginning to enter the panic stage, clearing of supermarket shelves etc. The thought of up to 20% of the country self isolating for the next few months is hard to believe. Another week should see several changes.

Anyone know why the UK Gov will only be announcing infection figures weekly? Not sure if that is true but several people have mentioned it.

 

[TotalWebSolutions]

Sounds like one of my mates has been there before his Friday night out

Parrswood Tesco has plenty of both left for your 'mate' @tony84 Also plenty of anti-bac wash with some even reduced in price.

 

[Gordon - Commercial Finance]

Condoms were in short supply too.

Some clever clogs getting prepared in case they need to repopulate the earth.

 

[OMGVape]

Some clever clogs getting prepared in case they need to repopulate the earth.

Condoms ain’t gonna be needed to repopulate the Earth ;-)

Mmmm now I’ve just had a great idea, big human sized condoms for everyone to wear - that will help get rid of this virus!

Back off everyone - this is MY business idea

 

[MBE2017]

My local Boots reported increased sales of condoms, people using them in place of gloves.

 

[tony84]

Parrswood Tesco has plenty of both left for your 'mate' @tony84 Also plenty of anti-bac wash with some even reduced in price.

Anti bacterial hand wash at Parrs wood tesco? I might have to take a trip down to my old stomping ground.

 

[Mr D]

Some clever clogs getting prepared in case they need to repopulate the earth.

Sure they know the purpose of condoms?

 

[simon field]

My local Boots reported increased sales of condoms, people using them in place of gloves.

I knew a bloke once who had five willies.
His pants fitted him like a glove.

 

[Mr D]

My local Boots reported increased sales of condoms, people using them in place of gloves.

Yes, heard some southerners had very small hands.

 

[Mr D]

Condoms ain’t gonna be needed to repopulate the Earth ;-)

Mmmm now I’ve just had a great idea, big human sized condoms for everyone to wear - that will help get rid of this virus!

Back off everyone - this is MY business idea

Naked Gun -

See the condom in action.

Great idea of yours having your marketing done as part of a film.

 

[ecommerce84]

It is scary how little people (not the government, but individuals) are doing.

I am a little more cautious than most, im asthmatic and I have a 2 year old. I was at a coffee shop on monday which is the day it kind of became serious over here. There was a bloke who had been in Shanghai and somewhere else and only been back a couple of days. His meeting did not need to be in a public place, it could have been anywhere - private office or even skype - pretty selfish really. I am sure he was fine, but there is a risk the symptoms were just not showing and he could have quite easily avoided that meeting in a public p

It is those things that will help to delay it in my opinion.

I overheard someone in Tesco earlier asking staff for hand sanitiser as his boss has been in Northern Italy for a week to with his daughter as she is scared (understandably) and can’t go to work.

Apparently his boss is coming back to the country tomorrow and will be in work on Monday.

I thought this sounded very selfish (assuming the story was true) - surely he should be on his own at home for the next 14 days.

 

[Gordon - Commercial Finance]

Condoms ain’t gonna be needed to repopulate the Earth ;-)

Yes yes....that was the point of the joke....
Come on folks.




Tough crowd

 

[Mr D]

I overheard someone in Tesco earlier asking staff for hand sanitiser as his boss has been in Northern Italy for a week to with his daughter as she is scared (understandably) and can’t go to work.

Apparently his boss is coming back to the country tomorrow and will be in work on Monday.

I thought this sounded very selfish (assuming the story was true) - surely he should be on his own at home for the next 14 days.

Yes - you'd think if he thought of his staff he'd self isolate himself.
Just to be on the safe side.

Hey, has anyone thought - people could be required to self isolate multiple times. How many times can people afford to be on SSP for 2 weeks at a time for?

 

[tony84]

I overheard someone in Tesco earlier asking staff for hand sanitiser as his boss has been in Northern Italy for a week to with his daughter as she is scared (understandably) and can’t go to work.

Apparently his boss is coming back to the country tomorrow and will be in work on Monday.

I thought this sounded very selfish (assuming the story was true) - surely he should be on his own at home for the next 14 days.

100% him and his daughter should be self isolating.

I would be saying if he comes in I am going home (maybe not worded quite like that though).

 

[Mr D]

100% him and his daughter should be self isolating.

I would be saying if he comes in I am going home (maybe not worded quite like that though).

You have yourself and your child to think of.
OK, child maybe not as affected by the virus. But affected if parent ill or dead.

 

[simon field]

Shedloads of people who just have similar symptoms, coughs, colds etc (or not) are gonna be swinging the lead on this one!

Then there’s the ones who’ll just soldier on & go to work, illness or no illness. Then there’s unscrupulous bosses pressuring people to come in.

 

[Mr D]

China/wuhan really did an amazing job handling the outbreak.

You got a short summary?

 

[MBE2017]

The Australian National University predict 15 million to die from this virus in the best outcome scenario, and up to 68 million in a worst case scenario.

I’m opening the Southern Comfort tonite.

 

[Mr D]

It's just a short documentary showing how china reacted to the outbreak over the period of a month, it's footage of what the doctors/nurses/volunteers went through to help others with the virus.

Thanks for that.

 

[Mr D]

There are more serious diseases and situations that leave more deaths.

True.
But not ones you are as likely to catch or be affected by.

New virus, possibly one that you can catch multiple times, possibly recurring annually across the world and very much impacting a bunch of people.

You may not be taking time off work soon. Perhaps your employer won't tell you to stay home for 2 weeks at a time on lower pay.
But others will.

 

[MOIC]

XombiCreative, post: 2990976, member: 302761"China/wuhan really did an amazing job handling the outbreak.

And they still are.

Wuhan City is still on lockdown as is much of Hubei as well as restriction in other towns and villages.

There is still a huge %, estimated at 30% (approx 200 million people) that have still to travel back to their work locations for one reason or another.

The documentary actually sanitised the real life events. it didn't include any harrowing scenes (which would not have been allowed for general viewing). The 'real life' situation was (and still continues to be) much worse in Wuhan City and much of Hubei province.

CGTN - Chine Global Television Network - The English speaking arm of their network, which also broadcasts in the UK with it's own UK presenters. This documentary was made and prepared by their USA broadcast centre.

China has it's knockers (and I'm one of them) but you have to say that what they have done with regards the lockdown of their cities, has prevented many more deaths, not only in China, but globally.

Whilst locking down cities is draconian (although ultimately required) and could never happen in any western cities, other measures that China has taken to contain and combat the virus has been completely ignored in some countries, especially UK.

That's a shame.

When figures rise, as they will, the NHS will be completely overwhelmed. They are simply not prepared for what will hit them.

 

[MOIC]

Here is an update for someone living in China from another site.


It has been almost a month since I last posted an update of what it is like here in China. So much has changed between then and now - clearly the pressing and urgent matter is the spread of the virus around the globe and the rate of increases of cases in multiple countries.

In Shanghai, the city is back to life this past week. It has slowly been coming back for the past 2 weeks or so, but this week is the first it has felt like daily activity is getting back to normal. Restaurants, stores, banks, offices - of which many had been closed for over a month are open once again. Traffic jams are back to a regular occurrence and many are walking the sidewalks where just a few weeks ago they were completely empty.

Over the last week, Shanghai has had only two newly confirmed cases, one of which was detected during a mandatory quarantine period in a traveler who arrived from Iran.

There is a lot of optimism that the worst is over, and hope that soon the city will be declared virus free. This is also the case in many other cities and provinces throughout China. Hubei province still suffers, but signs of improvement there are also encouraging.

As the virus spreads globally, I want to highlight the containment and prevention measures China has implemented, why they have worked, and why I believe countries around the world need to implement similar measures starting now.

In order for transmission to occur, the virus needs to come in contact with other humans. The first major measures China implemented were focused on social distancing and isolation. Areas where the virus was most prevalent were locked down, staring with Wuhan, expanding to Hubei province, and even to other cities with large pockets of the virus detected. In these lockdowns, people were not allowed to come into or leave these areas. Gatherings of people such as conventions, sporting events, movie theaters, gyms, etc. were immediately cancelled or closed. Offices and workplaces closed completely, the few restaurants that remained opened, only allowed take out food, no dining in. People were encouraged multiple times a day to stay home. The thing that amazed me as a westerner, was that everyone complied. The level of social distancing and isolation was extreme and necessary. Even today, as the city comes back to life this remains. Starbucks only allows one person per table so as to ensure people remain at a distance from one another.

The second measures put into place were focused on community transmission prevention. Encouragement to wash and disinfect hands regularly was plastered everywhere and was mentioned all over the news. In order to be outside at all it was necessary to be wearing a mask, to enter buildings, restaurants grocery stores, you were required to wear a mask and given hand sanitizer before entering. Buses, taxis, subways, Didi (Chinese Uber), all required masks to be worn. Public transit, transit stations, public restrooms were disinfected multiple times a day. In the elevators, boxes of tissues were placed for people to take one and use it as a cover to push buttons. Confined spaces often smelled of cleaning solution. My own apartment building came to disinfect my apartment unit during the height of cases in Shanghai. Everyone still wears masks, everyone still immediately washes their hands when they return home or uses disinfectant before eating.

Third major measures were focused on case discovery and treatment. Upon discovery of a confirmed case, quick and effective contact tracing measures were put into place. Public areas would take your name and phone number before allowing you to enter, in the event someone there later was determined positive, they could contact you and find you quickly. This moved digitally in QR code-based systems, were you would scan various locations, buses, taxis, subways, etc. and be able to be contacted and located quickly. To enter any public area, your temperature is taken. Residential communities issued passes for healthy residents when they would leave their homes, and would only be allowed back in by returning their pass and being checked for temperature again. Anyone found to be symptomatic was promptly taken to fever clinics, normally used for quick check-ups and prescriptions that had now become front line triage. At the fever clinic, you will be tested and examined. If it you are a suspected case you will be put under mandatory quarantine, this could be at a designated facility or at your home, if you are not immediately suspected you are asked to self-quarantine, in either case, your community (most are large apartment buildings or compounds of buildings) are informed of your status. This to let others know to be vigilant, and to ensure community helps with enforcement of quarantine and helps with providing supplies to those who are quarantined. If confirmed, usually within 24 hours of testing, patients are immediately transferred to one of two designated hospitals for COVID-19. Or the designated children's hospital for minors. (at least this is how it is in Shanghai). These measures are still in place today. It is almost impossible to leave your home without getting monitored by the entire community. If you show any signs of symptoms you will go in for testing and checkup, and your close contacts will be identified very quickly and also monitored.

Lastly, China implemented external controls to monitor and quarantine travellers both from other cities and provinces within China as well as from abroad.

In summary

1. Limit the potential exposure to the virus by keeping people away from each other
2. For the virus that is out there, disinfect rigorously, kill as much of the virus that is out in the community as possible to lessen the chance healthy people will contact the virus in the community. This includes individual efforts and community-based disinfection efforts.
3. Aggressively find potential cases and their contacts. Increase the already strict isolation controls on people confirmed, suspected, and potential contacts of those suspected or confirmed. Have a quick system
4. Limit movement of people to ensure clusters in one area don't become clusters in another area. Lockdown cities and communities, quarantine travellers.

These measures have worked. The proof is here. As said previously, what amazes me as a westerner was the willingness and the desire of the people to take these actions and take them seriously. Full scale adoption and compliance from the people. Absolutely incredible. And this is what it takes.

I hope the west can get it together. I hope they can take this seriously and act now. I hope the people will respond the way I have seen the Chinese people respond. China has also shown that early mistakes can be fixed if addressed and acted upon. Mistakes made now by countries recently impacted can still do what is necessary to stop the large scale spread.

I agree with the above post.

However you have to understand the make-up of the working population in the main cities and provinces.

Shanghai is mainly a financial city and a majority of the workers are involved in this sector as well as other non-manufacturing sectors.

For a barometer of factories returning to work, you have to look at provinces such as Guangdong, Zhejiang, Fujian (to name a few), which rely in the main on manufacturing industries and a very large migrant working population. In these provinces, things are gradually getting back to normal, Guangdong is currently at about 70% 'normality'.

I don't believe current figures coning out of China and I think there is still potential for a secondary outbreak as soon as all the migrant workers return to work.

A final comment . . . . . . . .I have never seen the interior of China buildings so clean!

 

[CVRO]

Because it is not legally or practically enforceable.

How about the announcement from early February? Doesn't that give the government the powers to quarentine people against their will?

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...public-health-protections-against-coronavirus

 

[MOIC]

Coronavirus Update March 7th:


Official figures for those tested: An additional 3803 infected with the virus yesterday, taking the total tested and infected to 102188.


Total deaths yesterday alone were recorded at 108, taking the total deaths recorded to 3491.


China infections and death increases rising at lower rates daily. (Be sceptical). Factories still struggling to get 50% of workers back. Life has changed . . . . . for the time being.


Japan & S Korea ban each other's citizens (Their political spat has been going on for months). Both rely on each other for component parts. This will add to global economic woes. As if we didn't have enough problems!


Europe figures up by an average 30% from yesterday.


USA figures up by nearly 50%. Florida & California report deaths. Schools and campuses begin to close. Cruise ship off the coast of California starting to test all passengers, 21 infected so far. Trump allocating $4.8 billion to combat the virus using different measures.


UK 161 infected, 2 deaths. Figures will probably begin to spike in the next 2 weeks (if correct figures are given out). Let's hope the NHS are getting prepared. The fact that there have been zero checks at main points of entry into the UK, as well as all airlines allowed to arrive from known infected areas seems folly. When will those that can take action wake up? Can they see what's been going on in other countries? NHS Chief Medical Officer . . . .Epidemic (slim to nil that we won't get it) will last 12 weeks.


Economy first? Yes and understandable, but there has to be a balance.


Be well, stay safe and take precautions.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

To put it in perspective

In the USA the number of deaths caused by Pneumonia each year is 50,000

World wide 2.56 million deaths a year world wide from Pneumonia at a rate of 286 deaths per 100.000 people

UK over 75's deaths from Pneumonia is between 5 -10% of those who get it

Most deaths by corona 19 will be with Pneumonia on top of these figures

Me I am retired and happy I live in a small village with little need to visit places with lots of crowds

Good luck to you all

 

[Newchodge]

How about the announcement from early February? Doesn't that give the government the powers to quarentine people against their will?

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...public-health-protections-against-coronavirus

That allows a public health consultant to detain a person they beleive .... May apply to those who should self-isolate, but I do not believe that detention is the same as self isolation and we do not have the facilities to detain everyone!

 

[Mr D]

That allows a public health consultant to detain a person they beleive .... May apply to those who should self-isolate, but I do not believe that detention is the same as self isolation and we do not have the facilities to detain everyone!

And if detained in your own home?

 

[Newchodge]

And if detained in your own home?

You cannot detain someone without supporting them. Otherwise they would starve.