Business idea - please critique.

[iTopz]

Hi.

I've recently seen a number of 'independent' clothing stores pop up online. Basically, the idea is this:

Design t-shirt--->Buy T-shirts--->Advertise via social networks--->Sell on bigcartel--->profit!

I can do most of these, but of course I am wary, otherwise I wouldn't be making this thread!
I can design t-shirt logos (I am good at using vector software), I can get the t-shirts cheap from China (After a test run, I will know whether quality is good enough, I know someone who is very good in this area) - as well China will be cheaper, I have checked compared to a UK supplier.
Then I can advertise on stuff like Facebook and Twitter. It seems simple enough. I am not great, but also stuff like SEO could be incorporated, and possibly adsense to gain customers?

I have a budget of about £2-3k so obviously I'm not going to do massive orders. I ran up a test before and know I won't be able to print up too many t-shirts, but enough to hopefully profit off my first batch as my other costs will be low.
So, I buy a t-shirt, for about £3 (including delivery etc) and sell for £10-15 online (minus £1 postage) making £6-9 profit.

Of course, if only it was that simple. Here are a few problems.

- Is this market a bubble, waiting to explode? As mentioned, it seems of late every man and his dog is doing this. My problem is, how saturated does the market get exactly? I mean, the dilemma is: Is this the way the clothing business is going (less corperations and more choice/small retailers) or is it something which will run down prices and make competition extremely hard?! - Which means my investment isn't a wise one.

- Unique selling point. Do I really have one? I have a good product, good designs etc and am probably even getting cheaper t-shirts than some, but I am effectively just one fish in a gigantic pond full of others. This ties into my second point above, will I get swamped down?

- Will social networking be enough to get customers in? It looks like a bit of graft, and otherwise I will have to use adsense, which means more cost, which I obviously want to avoid.

Thanks, feel free to rip it to shreds. That's the point of this thread.

 

[iArtist]

People can get personalised designs for t-shirts for the prices you're suggesting via sites like zazzle, cafepress, redbubble, spreadshirt...it is an over staurated market. Why indeed and how would you dent it?

 

[Moneyman]

Beware you do not know what will sell and what wont.
Say you need 5 sizes 4 colours 3 designs and thats just the tshirts. For every one that sells you will have one that sits forever.

I would recomend designing a store on spreadshirt or something like it. Ok it is expensive and to sell you wont get much of a margin until the numbers get reasonable. BUT after a couple of months you will get to know what works and what doesnt. There are hundreds of people who have sheds full of wrong size wrong colour shirts and you are lucky if you get 50p each to get rid of them.
Set up a store and if you get loads of takers then choose the biggest sellers, colours etc and do those direct from china while still offering the other products. that way you can have a big brand look and the turnover will make the items even cheaper. you will also have customers much happier than china.
Oh and pakistan is normally better for low number items and their quality control is better and they speak english and actually want the business.

 

[iTopz]

Cartoon logos - I am offering a brand, Spreadshirt et al. do not offer brands. Yes, they offer logos and customisable clothing, but not branded clothing. Plus, a lot of their designs are rubbish.

Money man - I agree with you. That is another big problem. I don't want to spend months building up a brand on spreadshirt and get 50% + of earnings going to them, from me. I would rather risk having products 'sit'. It is annoying though, the more I think about it - the idea is a bit poor.

By this I mean, within 5 years the market could be dead. AND - would I even make much money within that time?

 

[iArtist]

Cartoon logos - I am offering a brand, Spreadshirt et al. do not offer brands. Yes, they offer logos and customisable clothing, but not branded clothing. Plus, a lot of their designs are rubbish.

Yes they do offer brands, they have American Aparrel, Baby Bugz, Earth Continental and what not..many recogniseable brands that you can customise. What brand are you offering? If it's your own then it's meaningless as you're not known. A £3 t-shirt from China is also not quality is it?

Re their designs...they have millions, how could you know what's rubbish and what isn't? Many you'll never ever see unless you use a specific keyword search that picks up the item. That is the reality...

On the Internet a website is a speck of sand in the desert and a product may as well be an atom in space.

 

[JDX_John]

In theory it's a decent idea - another way that the web allows "micro brands" to exist. Whether you can sell any will determine as much (or more) on if you can get people to your site as it will on your artwork. Are you targeting specific people based on your art style... e.g. goths or teens or what?

Are you planning to do total cold advertising or have you got any links with friends who like your stuff and would buy it; remember the people wearing your stuff are walking billboards so your site or something should be clear on the shirts.

For instance my wife has an idea along these lines, but targeted at Christian parents... meaning the church in which we're an active part is a very strong base for initial sales and for a wave of networking to their christian friends elsewhere... meaning we have a great platform.

 

[iTopz]

Cartoon logos: I have spent hours looking through spreadshirt's images. 99% of them are awful. Although, they probably do have a few hundred thousand images - meaning a number are good - they are generally rubbish however.
Anyway, I'm not going down the 'spreadshirt' line. I would have a brand like 'Nike', i.e. logo and such, aimed at a specific audience (much more niche) and it would not be customisable. I have dealt with China too. Just because they are cheap, it doesn't mean they are poor quality.

Both: I agree with advertising. I think that would be my biggest flaw with stuff like SEO and having a little presence.

 

[Morraine]

Cartoon logos: I have spent hours looking through spreadshirt's images. 99% of them are awful. Although, they probably do have a few hundred thousand images - meaning a number are good - they are generally rubbish however.
Anyway, I'm not going down the 'spreadshirt' line. I would have a brand like 'Nike', i.e. logo and such, aimed at a specific audience (much more niche) and it would not be customisable. I have dealt with China too. Just because they are cheap, it doesn't mean they are poor quality.

Both: I agree with advertising. I think that would be my biggest flaw with stuff like SEO and having a little presence.

If you're just going to put a logo on the t-shirt like Nike then your dreaming. you have to sell something that artistically is good, as this is what people will buy into as your un-known. But i think moneyman is right you should start by leveraging platforms already their ie spreadshirt zazzle and be sure people like your designs. etc... And then get a DTG printer and print your own t-shirts as a print on-demand service and just get in a load of plain white and black t-shirts from china in all sizes and when you sell a design print it and send it out.

 

[Salt & Paper]

Trust me, you will blow through 2-3K in no time.

Forget relying on social media unless you have thousands of friends or some amazing plan to draw crowds in; it simply won't deliver you customers in a hurry.

We do something not- too- dissimilar (except we find artists/ designers to license their work and we sell cards), and I can tell you it's not an easy way to make money - that's not to say you can't make money, but 2-3K and social networking won't cut it in my opinion and I think you are vastly underestimating the effort involved in getting anyone to look at - let alone buy anything.

Also Moneyman makes two good points:

1) Carrying stock will be a killer - luckily we don't have to carry any stock (Well, just board and envelopes). If we did, I don't think my business would be viable. I can see you ending up with a lot of capital tied up in t-shirts you can't sell.

2) Without knowing and understanding your market, you are going to struggle- starting a store via an existing outlet like spreadshirt allows you to test the market.

 

[FurniturePlace]

Reading the above response. Makes me wonder why is everyone trying to put the guy off the idea.

Some of the world's great businesses were at the begining not all that. But what made them successful was the persistence of their founders.

There is no such thing as a failure, most you will do is learn from the mistakes you have made and for your next venture will be more smarter. The SEO idea is an brilliant one in my opinion. No1 ever thinks of hiring an SEO, as they try to do it themselves.

Secrets of a succesful business are to copy what other succesful business are doing and try do it slightly better then them.

My advice would be to go for it. Only way to find out

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

Reading the above response. Makes me wonder why is everyone trying to put the guy off the idea.

Some of the world's great businesses were at the begining not all that. But what made them successful was the persistence of their founders.

Secrets of a succesful business are to copy what other succesful business are doing and try do it slightly better then them.

My advice would be to go for it. Only way to find out

Why? Because we don't want the guy to waste his time if it isn't going to work.

There is no such thing as a failure, most you will do is learn from the mistakes you have made and for your next venture will be more smarter. The SEO idea is an brilliant one in my opinion. No1 ever thinks of hiring an SEO, as they try to do it themselves.

There is such a thing as failure. If you put hundreds of hours and thousands of pounds into an idea which fails, then it's a failure. Yes, you've gained lessons, but you've also just wasted a considerable amount of time which you could have spent on a better idea thanks to the guidance of some experienced business people.


Anyway, this idea is just like any other fashion idea. If you can get the right designs, set the right tones and follow (or even start) the right trends, then you can get somewhere. However, to rely on brand power alone, you need to create brand recognition and value first. That doesn't just appear out of nowhere.

 

[Salt & Paper]

Reading the above response. Makes me wonder why is everyone trying to put the guy off the idea.

Some of the world's great businesses were at the begining not all that. But what made them successful was the persistence of their founders.

There is no such thing as a failure, most you will do is learn from the mistakes you have made and for your next venture will be more smarter. The SEO idea is an brilliant one in my opinion. No1 ever thinks of hiring an SEO, as they try to do it themselves.

Secrets of a succesful business are to copy what other succesful business are doing and try do it slightly better then them.

My advice would be to go for it. Only way to find out

It's not really about putting him off, it's more about just telling it like it is.

 

[lurzan]

My opinion: Try conquering Zazzle and Cafepress market with your nichefirst. If there is a demand, then go from there.

 

[iArtist]

Cartoon logos: I have spent hours looking through spreadshirt's images. 99% of them are awful. Although, they probably do have a few hundred thousand images - meaning a number are good - they are generally rubbish however.
Anyway, I'm not going down the 'spreadshirt' line. I would have a brand like 'Nike', i.e. logo and such, aimed at a specific audience (much more niche) and it would not be customisable. I have dealt with China too. Just because they are cheap, it doesn't mean they are poor quality.

Both: I agree with advertising. I think that would be my biggest flaw with stuff like SEO and having a little presence.

Your designs may also be awful, how would we know? Maybe you should post a couple so we can better advise you if there is an opportunity here for you or not. My cousin was very successful at one point selling her own range of t-shirts and even went so far as to create some for the pop idol stars and Simon Cowell himself. She was the shoe designer for playboy and Pamela Anderson too..but she was good. So let's see what you have?

Meanwhile when you say you'd have a brand like Nike do you mean you'd pay them to use their brand? Or do you mean you hope to yourself (with a £3k budget) create a globally recognisable brand like Nike? If it's the latter...you're living in lala land my friend.

 

[iArtist]

Reading the above response. Makes me wonder why is everyone trying to put the guy off the idea.

Some of the world's great businesses were at the begining not all that. But what made them successful was the persistence of their founders.

There is no such thing as a failure, most you will do is learn from the mistakes you have made and for your next venture will be more smarter. The SEO idea is an brilliant one in my opinion. No1 ever thinks of hiring an SEO, as they try to do it themselves.

Secrets of a succesful business are to copy what other succesful business are doing and try do it slightly better then them.

My advice would be to go for it. Only way to find out

What nonsense, 3 out of 4 new businesses fail in the first year. Failure is indeed 'real'. Just ask the 75% of people who've seen their money go down the drain.

The guy asked for honest critique, he's getting it. I was first to advise he try out on zazzle, cafepress, spreadshirt, redbubble and if he has anything worth selling, he can do so without loss (other than time) there. If he finds his product sells then he can 'risk' his money going it alone.

 

What nonsense, 3 out of 4 new businesses fail in the first year. Failure is indeed 'real'. Just ask the 75% of people who've seen their money go down the drain.

The guy asked for honest critique, he's getting it. I was first to advise he try out on zazzle, cafepress, spreadshirt, redbubble and if he has anything worth selling, he can do so without loss (other than time) there. If he finds his product sells then he can 'risk' his money going it alone.

Very sound advice. Selling T-shirts looks simple on the face of it and it's easy to fall into the trap of thinking that because your designs are good that they're automatically going to sell. The truth is it's very unlikely that you're going to become the next Johnny Cupcakes so as Cartoon Logos said, use one of those sites, test the market, see what works, what doesn't and build your brand from there.

It's going to take A LOT of work, more so on the marketing side than anything else but if you go about it in the right way and your designs are good then there should be no reason for your T-Shirts not to sell.

 

[iTopz]

Cartoon designs: My designs are better than those on spreadshirt. I'll show you when I create a spreadshirt shop, which I have now decided to do after looking at this thread.

Of course I never dreamed of being 'The next Nike' on 3k, but to build up a small underground following was the aim. This brings me to my next question...has anyone ever sold reasonable units on spreadshirt, or is it a myth?!

Thanks.

 

[Morraine]

Cartoon designs: My designs are better than those on spreadshirt. I'll show you when I create a spreadshirt shop, which I have now decided to do after looking at this thread.

Of course I never dreamed of being 'The next Nike' on 3k, but to build up a small underground following was the aim. This brings me to my next question...has anyone ever sold reasonable units on spreadshirt, or is it a myth?!

Thanks.

Well done mate good luck . show us the store when you setup.

 

[iArtist]

Cartoon designs: My designs are better than those on spreadshirt. I'll show you when I create a spreadshirt shop, which I have now decided to do after looking at this thread.

Of course I never dreamed of being 'The next Nike' on 3k, but to build up a small underground following was the aim. This brings me to my next question...has anyone ever sold reasonable units on spreadshirt, or is it a myth?!

Thanks.

I personally prefer zazzle to spreadshirt and have sold items from zazzle. I think spreadshirt though has great features and for someone with the right amount of time and dedication it could work very well.

The trick is marketing...great designs are not the whole deal. The biggest sellers you will find are random blocks of text. Three words ...
Tis true. Look around you and see what people are wearing. More people wear slogans than they do images.

I do look forward to seeing your designs

 

[passionforbusiness]

I loved your idea. I did something similar in 2005. At that time, China-made products were not that popular due to bad reputation. I will just share some points, which I hope, is helpful.

1. Using social media is good. Everyone is using social media in one way or another. How do you intend to stand out? With the number of competitions today, finding you could be a needle in a haystack.
Will you be approaching corporate clients directly? The only way you can make money in T-shirts is for bulk purchases. However, with the economic condition now, will corporate clients want to pay for T-shirts?

2. Supplier support - How supportive are your suppliers? The problem with China is that we are not able to control the quality of their items. Do note that I am not against China but I think more can be done to control the quality of goods. I SERIOUSLY DO NOT think most China-made goods are cheap. Given the many disappointments that I had from my personal experience, in terms of quality, I think they are the most expensive sellers.

3. Unique selling point - what is so special about your T-shirts? How do you intend to establish your brand in this market?

4. If you are really serious about this business;
a. 2-3K is not enough.
b. You may need to participate in big expo or related events to showcase your specialty, if you have one.
c. You need to pay for storage/warehousing.
d. You may approach existing fashion outlets to sell your T-shirts on consignment basis.
e. Find an honest, trustworthy partner from China or Malaysia or any countries that produces cotton T-shirt.
f. You can consider approaching unions and promote your T-shirts to union members(if your design is related to the economy or industry). Print different designs on a real T-shirt and show them how great it looks.

Hope you find the above helpful..

Cheers..

 

[sla3]

Do pay attention to matters like import duty and quotas. When I was last active in the impex field this was a minefield - especially with things like provisional anti-dumping duties which meant HMRC (as it is now) could come back at you after a while for additional duty. Either consult someone who knows or read and understand the TARIC database (which is not readily comprehensible I must warn you: http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/dds2/taric/taric_consultation.jsp?Lang=en

You might find that the complexity and additional cost of duty and quotas blows your idea of importing out of the water. OTOH, maybe things have got easier in recent years ....