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Darren_Ssc
I think it used to be the case that there was always a grain of truth somewhere but now, it seems, artistic licence has gone to the extreme of just making stuff up.
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Boris is a hero
- Thread starter Mark T Jones
- Start date
I think it used to be the case that there was always a grain of truth somewhere but now, it seems, artistic licence has gone to the extreme of just making stuff up.
T
The Byre
The UK government is the largest and most egregious purveyor of fake news in Britain.
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Conservative Govt experts at smoke and mirrors until Covid-19, now seen as a lying, conniving bunch of incompetent career politicians who don't have enough business acumen to save British lives.
In UK, locked down to late with Johnson dithering, shaking hands with Covid-19 infected people, thousands flying in from Italy, China with Covid-19, Cheltenham racing, football matches, stereophonics concert..
In England lock down lifted too early with analysts saying London expected to have huge increase in ICU patients July and funerals expected to be increasing in August.
London Admission rate start increasing https://twitter.com/fascinatorfun/status/1267083423090446342
Johnson gone before Christmas and Chancellor to replace him?
In UK, locked down to late with Johnson dithering, shaking hands with Covid-19 infected people, thousands flying in from Italy, China with Covid-19, Cheltenham racing, football matches, stereophonics concert..
In England lock down lifted too early with analysts saying London expected to have huge increase in ICU patients July and funerals expected to be increasing in August.
London Admission rate start increasing https://twitter.com/fascinatorfun/status/1267083423090446342
Johnson gone before Christmas and Chancellor to replace him?
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It's so easy to be a hindsight expert
So called experts and analysists remind me of the saying that if you gave all of the monkeys in the world a typewriter one would eventually type the works of Shakespeare. There are over 50 scientists on the Sage group so it's hardly surprising that there are some dissenting voices as it's rare for two scientists to agree on something let alone fifty
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No different to any other party. They are all just as bad.
In any case, a lot of the blame also lies with the Civil Service and NHS managers.
And London admissions increasing isn't surprising considering the numbers of people flouting the social distancing guidance.
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Labour Govt experts were, of course, never smoke and mirrors. Alastair Campbell didn't invent smoke and mirrors.
And they weren't a lying, conniving bunch of incompetent career politicians who took us into an illegal war with their lies. And never lied to us about levels of immigration from opening our borders to the EU.
And they didn't follow that up with more incompetence selling the nation's gold right at the bottom of the market, building a nation of unemployed living on generous benefits, ruining our economy?
And after all that incompetence, the Tories are still 4% ahead of Labour in the polls. Wow! How bad must Labour be to worse than these Tories you talk about?
Thank your lucky stars you've got Johnson in #10. Imagine if it were dithering Corbyn, the man who couldn't decide if he was a Leaver or Remainer. He'd still be trying to work out whether there's a pandemic or not!
Loony Left Labour people are getting boring now with their hatred. I'm going to refer to the Loony Left Labour people as LLL for short. They should like it. It's like the KKK, but L comes after K. Progress for the Progressives!
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'L' is for Labour 'L' is for Lice!
Some said the same regarding Clement Atlee - But of course that was back in the days when we had 'Statesmen' rather than 'Here Today and Gone Tomorrow' Personalities!
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If JC were in power, he would still be waiting to hear back from the EU as to what he could do. He would have sent £300 billion into a fund, of which we might have got £50 billion back by now, but told many Tory schemes, such as furlough, loan bail outs etc we not allowed under state aid regulations.
I think people forget how good the Conservatives have been in some ways, writing off ALL the NHS debts, increasing funding, offering help to most employees almost instantly, others within a few weeks etc.
The things they are blamed for, some are justified, poor communications, lack of preparation, no track and trace initially, slow lockdown, but on the radio a commentator did mention they now knew they had followed the scientific advice. So most real gripes lay at the door of NHS procurement, Nursing homes etc, poor management from all.
End of the day, only a few countries have shown themselves to have done well, some are massaging the figures, others are incompetent, but it will be years before we truly know how the UK has done, once population density etc is taken into account.
I think people forget how good the Conservatives have been in some ways, writing off ALL the NHS debts, increasing funding, offering help to most employees almost instantly, others within a few weeks etc.
The things they are blamed for, some are justified, poor communications, lack of preparation, no track and trace initially, slow lockdown, but on the radio a commentator did mention they now knew they had followed the scientific advice. So most real gripes lay at the door of NHS procurement, Nursing homes etc, poor management from all.
End of the day, only a few countries have shown themselves to have done well, some are massaging the figures, others are incompetent, but it will be years before we truly know how the UK has done, once population density etc is taken into account.
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One of the most ridiculous ideas they have come up with is to introduce quarantine next week. What on earth do they think that will achieve, quite apart from it being made absolutely clear that they cannot police it. This article from the BBC https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52886724 states they are looking at ways to relax it. Well, just don't introduce it. That would work. They are considering 'air bridges' which appears to mean mutual agreement with some countries that neither will require quarantine for travellers to and from each country. Great idea, except that our infection rates are still so high that no 'low infection' country will accept the offer. Greece and Spain have both already said that they will not accept travellers from the UK.
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@Newchodge , there are a lot of LLL views. Please provide a link to your (or Labour's) masterplan and whitepaper for reopening the economy.
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Please explain how introducing quarantine next week does anything whatsoever to reopen, rather than close down, the economy.
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Perhaps they figured that this is price they need to pay to establish certain confidences in travel, or perhaps these are the terms they had to accept to agree travel bridges with other countries. I don't know, I don't work for the government.
Back to my question. Please provide a link to Labour's masterplan and details on how they would go about returning the country to normal. Or do LLLs just stand by the sidelines and whine all day long?
Back to my question. Please provide a link to Labour's masterplan and details on how they would go about returning the country to normal. Or do LLLs just stand by the sidelines and whine all day long?
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D
Deleted member 59730
The Tories put the NHS in debt and now they are to be congratulated for writing it off.
What is really needed is an equitable method of funding. The reasons why Cornwall gets so much less than the rest of the country or Scotland are nothing short of scandalous
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Gordon Brown famously kept it off the books so people never realised how much it was costing us.
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Deleted member 59730
PFI is not the only NHS debt.
Just one example. Visitors to Cornwall rack up millions in hospital costs. NHS Cornwall funds the treatment and has to wait 2 YEARS before getting the money back.
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Which is a ridiculous and expensive system when we have a NATIONAL health service. Why have the wasted bureaucracy involved in one region charging another region for treating 'their' residents. This internal market is one of many bureaucracies that drain funding from clinical services. NHS services in Cornwall should be funded according to the number of people treated.
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T
The Byre
Every other Western health system I have studied (when I was a political wonk) works that way. The NHS is the only one that is weird and crazy and does not pay by the treatment. I suspect that the BMA and its allies are at the bottom of that can of worms.
But the moment you insist of heading down the path of paying by treatment, you must end up with a social insurance system (like almost every other West European country).
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Deleted member 59730
Believe it or not but the budget for Cornwall is reduced because the average wage in Cornwall is less than the national average. No allowance is made for Cornwall's remoteness from other NHS trusts but Scotland gets extra for the same reason. There are masses of minor unfair clauses in the budget.
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The stories have put more money into the NHS than ever before, additional resources allocated several times, and then on top of stating they would throw whatever resources at Covid that were required, they then also wrote off all of the NHS debt. Yes, I think they are to be congratulated.
Put it another way, when have either Labour or the Lib Dem’s ever done anything like it before?
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Every party in power puts money into the NHS. However whether its buildings, salaries, equipment etc is open to debate.
NHS does not tend to lose money, just some years it gains less money than in other years. Chuck money at it and spent on increasing staff salaries - doesn't actually make a difference to the patient care or the facilities. But good for retaining & recruiting staff.
I did hear some pundit the other day saying how the NHS staff should have access to mental health support and treatment. He appeared to miss the concept that we already had that - done by the NHS!
Poorly funded and overworked prior to Covid maybe - and soon going to be far worse off as regards work - be a while before the mental health side of the NHS gets back to a new normal.
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At some levels they also get to beat the waiting lists. Oh, Justin, can you fit me in for scan sometime soon? sort of thing.
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Deleted member 59730
As a few insiders have said about it in Cornwall "the cheque is stuck in the post". Boris announced with great fanfare a massive spending spree for Cornwall NHS of nearly £100 million just before the election. Turns out it was to fulfill 17 year old spending plans*. It has morphed currently into a £100,000 feasability plan.
Don't believe everything the Tories tell you.
*The artist impressions of the plans show cars which were noticeably out of date.
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The topic seems to have moved from Boris to NHS.
FWiW, the one thing that the NHS absolutely doesn't need is more money.
Many core services (A&E etc) are actually provided quickly, efficiently and well, but extra funds tend to be wasted on expensive, repetitive, inefficient processes, that result in funds moving from the taxpayer to the private sector rather than directed towards patients.
One reason for this is that the National Healthcare Service, designed to provide critical healthcare, has become the National Lifestyle service, providing non-critical healthcare.
Thinking about it like a business that has existed for c.100 years:
FWiW, the one thing that the NHS absolutely doesn't need is more money.
Many core services (A&E etc) are actually provided quickly, efficiently and well, but extra funds tend to be wasted on expensive, repetitive, inefficient processes, that result in funds moving from the taxpayer to the private sector rather than directed towards patients.
One reason for this is that the National Healthcare Service, designed to provide critical healthcare, has become the National Lifestyle service, providing non-critical healthcare.
Thinking about it like a business that has existed for c.100 years:
- The number of customers has increased due to population growth etc
- The requirements of those customers has increased due to increased life expectancy etc
- The range of products and services offered has increased (e.g. wellness, IVF etc)
- Intellectual Property (medicines, equipment etc) has been transferred to the private sector and is sold back to the taxpayer at a profit
- Many staff are not employed directly, but are outsourced, locum, etc which has created increased costs to the NHS
- Proactive healthcare is discouraged, favouring reactive healthcare (c.f. countries that have better health than UK and you tend to see more proactivity)
- Hospitals and healthcare premises are a mixture of fit for purpose and unfit for purpose, and the passage of information tends to be analogue in an increasingly digital world
- The funding model has remained broadly unchanged
- forecast change in population
- assess what the critical healthcare needs of that population will be
- plan to deliver those needs using resources effectively e.g. remotely where practicable, via centres of excellence when possible, and locally when necessary.
- This would require a change of aspiration, and approach on the part of decision-makers (and probably complete replacement of them)
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T
The Byre
The NHS budget per person insured is $3,400 (2018 figures).
The AOK and other German state-controlled health insurance schemes budgeted $3,340.
Key structural differences -
- NHS doctors are paid by the hour. NHS trusts get a fixed budget. In Germany, doctors, hospitals, clinics, etc. are paid by the treatment.
- Proactive healthcare in Germany is partially compulsory. e.g. women must visit a gynecologist twice a year to maintain full insurance coverage. A doctor can prescribe a 'cure' holiday in which the patient must undergo exercise and treatment at a health spar.
- The title 'doctor' is bestowed only on those who have completed a specialist doctoral thesis. Every 'Doctor' is a specialist and there are very few GPs.
- Patients make appointments with a specialist and not via a GP.
- All patients must present their electronic health insurance card when attending a doctor at his practice or at a clinic. That card opens the entire medical record of that patient. Paper records were abolished 20 years ago.
- The cost of health insurance is set by the level of income.
- The wealthy and the self-employed in Germany can opt-out of the state scheme and pay for fully private care if they wish. It is expensive!
German hospitals are spotless and non-private patients sleep two or three to a room. Windows are usually kept open. Waiting lists are almost unknown, except for a few key specialties were a routine operation may have to wait up to three months. Expensive equipment like ventilators and MRI scanners earn money so hospitals have them in abundance and make sure that specialist staff are at hand to operate them. Children always see a pediatrician and never a GP, so dangerous childhood illnesses are picked up earlier.
Downside -
German doctors are keen to treat you, even if there is nothing much wrong with you. Well, after all, them boat-payments and harbour fees for that yacht in the Adriatic come around every month!
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5. Get rid of the "lifestyle" and "wellness" treatments. Redirect the spending to educating people, from an early age, how to look after themselves.
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D
Deleted member 59730
You keep mentioning this as a big advantage. In my area of the UK cards were abandoned years ago. They can be misused. Instead we have a system that the patient is the verification which has been found to be much more secure. The chance of 2 people having the exact same age, name and address is remote.
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In my experience a small brown envelope suffices in Spain!
The legitimate cost for healthcare that I have paid for in Spain has been very reasonably priced.
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I have helped a lot of people with health from digestive problems to infertility.
Good diet, sufficient exercise and avoidance of toxins is generally good advice yet of course most of us need to earn an income and if we cannot a find a way that suits our natural aptitudes stress and unhealthy eating patterns will likely result.
Good diet, sufficient exercise and avoidance of toxins is generally good advice yet of course most of us need to earn an income and if we cannot a find a way that suits our natural aptitudes stress and unhealthy eating patterns will likely result.
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