Are you a Christian?

[Top Hat]

I will however ask the others if they all consider my story to be in any way "base" or in any way out of order. If the consensus is that it was then I will back out of this thread. Will you do the same if they think your comments are out of order?

No.

12345666

 

[Jeff Knows]

Jesus is the son of God. God gave his son. Are you an authority on what I believe? You are more authorised than me. What shall I have for tea tonight?

That's an interesting way to defend irrational acceptance of myth as fact. Don't even bother to argue whether it's true or not, just say you get to believe whatever you want to believe and slippery slope into something menial and absurd.

It's the philosophical equivalent of LaLaLalAlLALalAla I can't hear you

You are, of course, free to believe whatever you wish. Doesn't make it true. Doesn't make it more valid than my belief. Doesn't make it justifiable and it doesn't make it immune from ridicule.

 

[DCE]

Well here's a direct quote from your churches website www.lcg.org

http://www.lcg.org/cgi-bin/lcg/qanda/lcg-qa.cgi?category=qanda1&item=1218666801

You dont even know what your own church teaches

As for what to have for tea tonight - I hightly recommend a slice of lose the attitude with whatever you have - followed by 5mg of get over yourself.

What a rude man you are Parthelan,

Did you Know your Church use God & Lord which could be classed as user-names, as I know how strongly you feel about this, but behind the user-name the person of God has a real name.

Like you say the user-name stops anybody knowing your personal name, but why do you insist, only using God's user-name and not his real & personal name, because God want's everyone to use his personal name, so everyone will know, which God they are worshipping. Simple No Confusion!

Psalm 83:18 (King James Version)

18That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.

Did you notice which translation I am using.

 

[josor]

What a rude man you are Parthelan,

Tbh, your not coming across pleasent either, in your attacks. By reading your posts, which yes i know can be read in many ways, you seem to come across as very arrogant in your ways. It is coming across very condesending.

 

[DCE]

Tbh, your not coming across pleasent either, in your attacks. By reading your posts, which yes i know can be read in many ways, you seem to come across as very arrogant in your ways. It is coming across very condesending.

Thanks for the council, I will take on board.

But think if your read everyone else's posts, you would see, that I'm trying my best, under somewhat, stacked odds.

Thanks anyway for your encouragement.

 

[josor]

Thanks for the council, I will take on board.

But think if your read everyone else's posts, you would see, that I'm trying my best, under somewhat, stacked odds.

Thanks anyway for your encouragement.

I have read other's posts, but they seem to answer the questions that you asked. But then again, if you replied to some of the questions asked, instead of blanking them, then maybe that would help you out more.

 

[Jeff Knows]

Thanks for the council, I will take on board.

But think if your read everyone else's posts, you would see, that I'm trying my best, under somewhat, stacked odds.

Thanks anyway for your encouragement.

Where the hell is this[ normal person hiding?

We ask you questions and you respond robotic ally with scripture, someone new enters the thread and you turn into a regular bloke. WTF is the deal with that.

Is one of the rules of being a Jehovah to throw a bit of book at every passing atheist or what?

 

[josor]

I have to say this thread has aroused my interest in religion for some strange reason. Would I call myself a christian? I would, but not an active one. I would say I used to have something in common with DCE or Dick as he known on this discussion.

 

[josor]

Where the hell is this[ normal person hiding?

We ask you questions and you respond robotic ally with scripture, someone new enters the thread and you turn into a regular bloke. WTF is the deal with that.

Is one of the rules of being a Jehovah to throw a bit of book at every passing atheist or what?

If the basis of your faith is focused wholly on the bit of book, of course it will be used to back an arguement. Albeit it could be put across better

 

[DCE]

Where the hell is this[ normal person hiding?

We ask you questions and you respond robotic ally with scripture, someone new enters the thread and you turn into a regular bloke. WTF is the deal with that.

Is one of the rules of being a Jehovah to throw a bit of book at every passing atheist or what?

Its the language that is used Jeff, that makes all the difference, and also gang warfare comes to mind.

Very difficult, as Stockdom said, when you have lot's of questions asked at the same time, and the pages of the forum move so fast, its difficult to keep up with everything, would you not agree?

 

[Consistency]

Well here's a direct quote from your churches website www.lcg.org



http://www.lcg.org/cgi-bin/lcg/qanda/lcg-qa.cgi?category=qanda1&item=1218666801

You dont even know what your own church teaches

As for what to have for tea tonight - I hightly recommend a slice of lose the attitude with whatever you have - followed by 5mg of get over yourself.

Jesus is my Leader, who is yours?

You have a troubled mind. Eat a piece of cake.

Why would I take a recommendation from an apostolate?
Before I can get over myself, I have to get over you first!

You have more in common with a pagan than any Christian from what I can see.

Follow yourself and I will follow Jesus. All this effort you place on trying to destroy faith in those that will not turn away, could be better spent elsewhere.

You are a man obsessed, yet I still love you and hope you will calm down one day.

 

[cjd]

Have we ever had a Christian on here who has been able to agree with another Christian here on the basic tenets of their religion?

Just a thought.

('Anyone who disagrees with ME is not a proper Christian' is a very common claim.)

 

[Consistency]

Have we ever had a Christian on here who has been able to agree with another Christian here on the basic tenets of their religion?

Just a thought.

('Anyone who disagrees with ME is not a proper Christian' is a very common claim.)

Jesus is the leader. God knows his followers.

 

[Jeff Knows]

Jesus is my Leader, who is yours?

I am my own leader and it terrifies me you think it is acceptable to live your life any other way.





..... Does that make me Jesus?

 

[Consistency]

Because people accept themselves as their own leader, we have what we have now - much pain, grief, suffering and death that never had to have been.

Adam accepted Eve as his leader when he ate the forbidden fruit.

 

[cjd]

Interesting concept following a dead leader.

Generally, I'm with Bob "don't follow leaders, watch the parking meters" but the idea of being able to pick a dead one is quite interesting. Genghis Khan might be fun.

 

[cjd]

Adam accepted Eve as his leader when he ate the forbidden fruit.

Oh no not another one. Surely you don't believe that the bible is literally true?

(Here we go again.)

 

[Subbynet]

Because people accept themselves as their own leader, we have what we have now - much pain, grief, suffering and death that never had to have been.

Very well done on that answer. Should we abstract from this that you apply this to Jesus too?

Of course not, because that would make a mockery of your answer.

Adam accepted Eve as his leader when he ate the forbidden fruit.

Really... I thought she was tricked by the serpent? But hey, its just a story...

 

[bdw]

You have more in common with a pagan than any Christian from what I can see.

Do you have something against pagans? Pagans have never done me any harm and I am not forced into adopting their habits like I am with christianity in the UK. :|

Because people accept themselves as their own leader, we have what we have now - much pain, grief, suffering and death that never had to have been.

Yes? And religion had nothing to do with this?

Sadly none of these would have happened were it not for religion. Just have a wee look at the list of current religious troubles on that page.

.

 

[Jeff Knows]

Because people accept themselves as their own leader, we have what we have now - much pain, grief, suffering and death that never had to have been.

This kind of comment is what sickens me. Train people to believe that making up your own mind on things will lead to horrors, to pain, to grief. It's this base assumption that man alone is wicked and can only be a nice person if they bow down and follow the leadership if God.

Despite the fact God himself has caused great suffering. Despite the fact several religious entities set up in honour of God continue to this day to cause great suffering.

In general humanity is good. Across the planet most people are not infact killing each other in the streets. Funny how 5.5Billion people are largely good people without the word of your God. Some follow others, some none at-all. Apparently they don't need your guiding light to not stab people.

A small percentage of humans are *******s. We get it. Some of those *******s were Atheists and some of them were Theists. Their religious views were not their defining characteristics, them being a ******* is.

Do you know what it takes to make people commit or stand by and let others commit atrocities en mass? Leaders and Followers. Doesn't matter if it is religious or political, if people hand over their reason and their opinion to someone else they become partly responsible for the actions of that person if they support their power.

Do you think everyone in 1930's Germany was a Nazi? No, of course they weren't. I would wager they were largely like you and me. Did they support the power structure of a man who was a Nazi? Absolutely.

The best thing you have as a human is the ability to know yourself. The ability to question your own existence. To look at situations and empathise with those involved. The ability to not just follow the leader like a pack animal.

Hardcore religious people give all that up. Your morales are defined by a book, your opinions are defined by a book, the way you treat people is defined by a book. You say things that insult the rest of your species, you think of them as too stupid and too evil to do the right thing.

Honestly, it's sickening. Have some damn faith in humanity and stop squandering how amazing it is to be a human in the name of someone who probably doesn't exist, a person who even if he did exist.. wouldn't be that great of a guy.

 

[bdw]

Good post Jeff.

 

[josor]

Yet i'm confused by your post, you say God doesn't probably exist, yet say God has caused great suffering. Or thats they way it come across to me.

Funny how 5.5Billion people are largely good people without the word of your God

This is a breakdown of religion worldwide from 2000, just from a google search on how many of the world's population are religous.

Which to me looks like a large proportion, actually follow a god of some sort

 

[MASSEY]

Consistency thinks everyone who does not agree with his religion is stupid and he will be rewarded for following a holy book (thats hoping he chose the right religion?). He has a very similar attitude to DCE in thinking at least he knows the truth and will be rewarded in the afterlife. But in fact if ""God"" really is as clever as they claim he will be able to see through their half hearted attempts at spreading the word and trying to convert others with the secret greed they have. Which is a sin, and sinners go to hell according to religious people.

DCE wants his religions numbers to stay as low as they can, he secretly hopes many leave so he has more chance of being in the "kingdom" over seeing the losers down on earth.

 

[Jeff Knows]

Yet i'm confused by your post, you say God doesn't probably exist, yet say God has caused great suffering. Or thats they way it come across to me.

This is a breakdown of religion worldwide from 2000, just from a google search on how many of the world's population are religous.

Which to me looks like a large proportion, actually follow a god of some sort

I fail to see your point about the percentage of religious people? Yes, lots of people believe in some sort of God but they do not all believe in the same God. Infact many of them have conflicting ideas of God. Even inside Christianity itself there are conflicting beliefs, this thread proves that.

Even if you disregard the fact all the Gods humanity believes in can't all exist at once you still run into the problem that it doesn't matter if 70% of humanity believes in the existence of God. It doesn't make the story more probable. Even if 100% of humanity believed in God, it still isn't proof of his existence.

A high percentage of Koreans believe sleeping with an electric fan on will kill you. Doesn't make it true.

Going back to your first point, I stand by it. God probably doesn't exist but my reasoning and methods for that statement isn't considered good enough for many religious people (Lack of probability, Lack of communication, Impossible Miracles and the extent of Human suffering). So what can I do? Simple, I use religious reasoning.

Everything we know about God comes from the Bible so let's turn to it as an example of the character of God and let it gives us a reason for his worship. Oh wait, actually, it turns out he is a git.

Did you know if you count up how many deaths in the Bible were attributed to God you reach a number around 2.5million? We have endured war in Iraq for 10 years for far, far less than that. Saddam killed 250,000 of his own people.. we spend trillions of dollars and the lives of 4,700 soldiers to get rid of him. God gets a special seat on our money, in our courtrooms, in our law, in our schools and in the minds of our society.

There is nothing good enough about the Abrahamic God to warrant worship. Nothing. Doesn't matter whether you use my reasoning or you use the book. It's mind poison that turns people against their fellow man and dulls their personal freedom. That's not even getting into the whole hypocrisy of accepting the divine word of God then chucking away bits you don't like anymore.

 

[bdw]

You know what? I think the christians' version of god (who I believe does not exist - ignore me) is getting a rough ride in here. What about Allah? There is a noticeable absence of his supporters in here. Hrrrrm, I wonder why that is?

.

 

[stockdam]

I will add that book to my reading list, I'm currently reading Mere Christianity.


Are there any other mention of jesus outside of the bible other than Josephus?

I'm not suggesting it will "answer" any questions but it's easy to read and at least will give you something to discuss - and no I don't mean that it will change any of your beliefs but it does cover stuff from people who have studied the issues in more depth than anyone here (probably).

 

[Parthelan]

You are a man obsessed, yet I still love you and hope you will calm down one day.

All this because I pointed out a contradiction in what you said - Like I said, you do a lot of preaching, you even plugged your own church on here, yet you dont even know what your own church teaches regarding who the person of Jesus is

A cursury glance at your posts give a good indication of what you really think. It's also not gone un-noticed, like DCE you are simply unable to contain your contempt for mainstream christian beliefs, but you do an ever so slightly better job of disguising it that DCE does with inane comments like below:

''Yet I still love you''

........seriously, please don't..

Welcome to my ignore list.

*plonk*

 

[bdw]

I'm not suggesting it will "answer" any questions

Why do we have to take the time to read a whole book? Why not just point us to some credible evidence of the existence of a god - any god?

You know I have noticed in this thread (and outside it) that if you want to wind religious people up all you have to do is insist on credible evidence. That is generally enough to cause them to start getting all defensive (and even aggressive) but people today are a wee bit more sophisticated about these things. We need evidence outside of a book that is full of "facts" that can be easily disproven.

I will defend your right to believe, of course I will but religious people just do not seem to be able to understand this. Those of us who do not believe need a bit more than you before we will board this particular boat.

Many non believers in here have asked for evidence and perhaps why you guys believe in your gods. Just saying, "because we do" is not an acceptable response.

I would love to be convinced. Help me.

.

 

[FaerieB]

You all have such strong opinions ... and you all believe you are right ... but that's just all it is belief ... as far as I'm concerned, the more I learn ... the less I know :| x

 

[stockdam]

Yes? And religion had nothing to do with this?

(sorry I'm not stalking you).

I doubt if you read the link - I tend to read the links and often takes me quite a while to respond as sometimes it takes time to do the research needed to critic the links adequately.

Your link says.......

"A religious war is a war justified by religious differences."

Ok - I have stated many times here that "religious wars" are very often wrongly tagged and have little if anything to do with religion.

Your link then states:

"While there are undoubtedly wars fought primarily on religious grounds, wars frequently have multiple and complex causes.

Note the bit in bold which I believe is contrary to what you believe but is pretty well what I believe.

This next bit is a gem and beautiful.......

"In modern times religious designations are frequently used as shorthand for cultural and historical differences between combatants, giving the impression that the conflict is primarily about religious differences. For example, The Troubles in Northern Ireland are frequently seen as a conflict between Catholic and Protestant. However, the more fundamental cause is the attachment of Northern Ireland to either the Republic of Ireland or the United Kingdom.

I believe you were one who disagreed with me (as were several others) that N.I. was not a religious war and the article you posted explains it perfectly.....the bit I quoted falls short of suggesting that it is ignorant or lazy to belief that a lot of modern conflicts are wrongly attributed to religion. I have said that the type of analysis that attributes religious wars to wars about other issues are Sun Headlines.....lazy and claptrap. It's so lazy to put two conflicting sides into two religious boxes and then claim that religion is the root cause when all that does is to ignorantly and lazily stop way short of understanding what is really the problem.

So it would appear that your link does not back up what I believe you were trying to say.

"wars frequently have multiple and complex causes".........that's true and anyone who doesn't try to research the real problems is guilty of spreading Sun Headlines.

 

[mobyme]

I feel like I am being stalked.

Chris, it is actually very clear that you don't have much interest in debating anything with anyone. Apart from stalking me all you have done since you joined this thread is dish out insults like...

Can you give an example of something reasonable that you have contributed to this debate?

Describing me as "base" for offering you a simple, true story as an example clearly illustrates where your mind is so don't accuse me of being one very sad man. How low will you stoop to try to insult me next? Can't you just stay on the debate without being so malicious and belligerent?

My story was an illustration of how kids should be allowed to make up their own minds about these things rather than being taught religious fables as actual fact (as you were). Your twisting this to somehow imply that I have been indoctrinating my family beggars belief.

I will however ask the others if they all consider my story to be in any way "base" or in any way out of order. If the consensus is that it was then I will back out of this thread. Will you do the same if they think your comments are out of order?

.

Surely it's easier for you to put me on ignore, then I can say what I like about you without it upsetting you.

 

[bdw]

OK, I will agree that Northern Ireland is a bit more complex than other more standard religious conflicts but please do not confuse Northern Ireland with the rest of the world. You guys only managed to kill a few thousand innocents. The big time Charlies got into the millions.

.

 

[stockdam]

Why do we have to take the time to read a whole book?

.

I do not care whether you read it or not. However maybe you should take some time to do so and you'll get a much more in-depth discussion. If you believe that you will get answers in 20 or 30 words then dream on. Do you just read the headlines in the Sun or do you take time to really research a subject and then make up your mind? Sorry but I do not expect you to convince me in a couple of posts and it would be a total lack of respect to believe that you could summarise your beliefs and evidence in a couple of lines; even Dawkins decided to write a book about the subject........if he felt he could convince anyone (including his fervent followers) in a Twitter length posts then I would suggest that he wouldn't have wasted many hours of his life writing a book when a couple of well written lines would have done.

If you don't want to read the book then fine but don't expect me or anyone else to summarise it in a short post........unfortunately the devil is in the detail and people spend years reading and researching before coming to a conclusion and it would be crass of me to say that it could be boiled down to a couple of headlines.

 

[stockdam]

OK, I will agree that Northern Ireland is a bit more complex than other more standard religious conflicts but please do not confuse Northern Ireland with the rest of the world. You guys only managed to kill a few thousand innocents. The big time Charlies got into the millions.

.

I live in NI and I don't confuse it with anywhere else in the World. I have never tried to do so but I have said that NI is not a religious war and I have posted quite a bit about why. I would not try to read across to other wars/conflicts but I have said that an opinion cannot be made unless you understand the issues and the history. If you think you can than that's somebody who reads the headlines and doesn't do the research.

 

[bdw]

Surely it's easier for you to put me on ignore, then I can say what I like about you without it upsetting you.

Who said you were upsetting me? I am actually quite enjoying watching yet another zealot making an @rse of himself and helping our cause. I tolerated DCE for a few weeks. You are a doddle in comparison (even though DCE was able to keep roughly on topic without insulting people).

Why not try contributing something intelligent to the debate rather than obsessing yourself with little old me? :|

.

 

[bdw]

but I have said that NI is not a religious war and I have posted quite a bit about why.

I know you have but I personally believe that what applies in NI applies equally to these other foreign conflicts. Do not make the mistake of thinking that the people in NI are some sort of special case. People will always use religion as an excuse to go to war. I know this is simplistic but if there was no religion there would be no excuse.

.

 

[MASSEY]

"wars frequently have multiple and complex causes".........that's true and anyone who doesn't try to research the real problems is guilty of spreading Sun Headlines.

They do have complex causes but religion plays a massive part. Look in libya now with all the "i want to fight and die for allah" what the hell are those people eating for breakfast.

The religion aspect of it brings more danger than the other complex causes causing the war.....

 

[bdw]

If you don't want to read the book then fine but don't expect me or anyone else to summarise it in a short post

What? This is a debate on a wee forum for god's sake (woops sorry). We do not have time to read books between posts. This is all about making your point in short posts, is it not?


.

 

[mobyme]

Who said you were upsetting me? I am actually quite enjoying watching yet another zealot making an @rse of himself and helping our cause. I tolerated DCE for a few weeks. You are a doddle in comparison (even though DCE was able to keep roughly on topic without insulting people).

Why not try contributing something intelligent to the debate rather than obsessing yourself with little old me? :|

.

OK, I will try to match your superior intellect and post riveting posts like

You know what? I think the christians' version of god (who I believe does not exist - ignore me) is getting a rough ride in here. What about Allah? There is a noticeable absence of his supporters in here. Hrrrrm, I wonder why that is?

In a thread titled 'Are you a Christian?'


Priceless

 

[bdw]

OK, I will try to match your superior intellect

Give it your best shot why don't you? It would be nice to see you contributing something on topic for a change.

(I am now going to change into my blue velvet smoking jacket and have a lie down on the couch with a bottle of ale. Please don't be looking in my window. You are now making me nervous.)

.