Are bookkeepers in demand?

[Annoying Donkey]

1. Are bookkeepers in demand?
2. Are qualifications necessary? If so, what qualifications and how long to get them?
3. What would be the going rate for self employed bookkeeper with just a little experience?

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

1. Are bookkeepers in demand?

They may well be but there is huge competition and loads of new entrants to the market

2. Are qualifications necessary? If so, what qualifications and how long to get them?

you don't have to have any but it helps. You do have to register with HMRC for ML of you are not covered by membership else where

3. What would be the going rate for self employed bookkeeper with just a little experience?

very little I expect!

 

[An Oasis]

3. What would be the going rate for self employed bookkeeper with just a little experience?

very little I expect!

I was about to post the same, hope the OP does not mind?

What are the hourly rates?

How do you find one, who can use certain software, without having to phone hundreds?

 

[Alison Jones]

Hi

I would say that it really depends on where you live and how badly they are affected by the recession.

I am in the North, have 15 years experience and up to level 3 computerised with ICB and level 2 manual, have lost 3 clients to the recession. A lot of small businesses not taking on bookkeepers they are doing it themselves.

Would say with little or no experience at this time it would be near impossible to get clients considering there are many qualified/experienced bookkeepers struggling to get clients.

Would say you would be lucky to get much more then £6 an hour with no experience or qualifications. With experience and qualifications unless you are in London would say the highest you would get would be £15 an hour (possibly in London could get up to £30 an hour if you were lucky) but most places would say mainly between £10 - £12.50 an hour.

Alison

 

[Annoying Donkey]

I was about to post the same, hope the OP does not mind?

What are the hourly rates?

How do you find one, who can use certain software, without having to phone hundreds?

Not at all Do a search and check the websites. My past experience is most bookeepers can adapt to whatever software you use, and if they can't don't use them

 

[Annoying Donkey]

Thanks, Elaine and Alison. I understand she does have general office work experience and bookkeeping, just a few years ago... It twas just a thought... Regards

 

[Philip Hoyle]

1. Are bookkeepers in demand? Good, experienced, flexible ones are always in depend, the more different types of software used, and the wider the knowledge (i.e. VAT, PAYE and CIS) the better, recession or not.
2. Are qualifications necessary? If so, what qualifications and how long to get them? Not as important as experience
3. What would be the going rate for self employed bookkeeper with just a little experience? Our clients and ourselves are currently paying £15-£20 per hour depending upon skills and experience - Sage book-keeping only is the bottom end but a book-keeper who knows the ins and outs of Quickbooks and does the VAT, PAYE, CIS and other general business admin advice is getting £20 per hour and still very busy. For someone with no real practical experience and little knowledge of VAT, PAYE and CIS, we'd be looking at probably £10-£12 per hour, but we'd probably not take them on whatever the price if we could get someone more experienced in the £15-£20 range. I think someone newly qualified with little practical experience is best suited to being an employee until they get a few years under their belt.

 

[Alison Jones]

3. What would be the going rate for self employed bookkeeper with just a little experience? Our clients and ourselves are currently paying £15-£20 per hour depending upon skills and experience - Sage book-keeping only is the bottom end but a book-keeper who knows the ins and outs of Quickbooks and does the VAT, PAYE, CIS and other general business admin advice is getting £20 per hour and still very busy. .[/quote]

Wish it was like that where I live, it is a really struggle in Yorkshire. More people are doing their own bookkeeping to keep costs down then hiring a self employed bookkeeper.

I never really thought about the recession happening when I chose my clients - the 3 clients I lost were all in the luxury goods/service industry and struggling businesses cutting costs.

There used to be adverts for bookkeepers wanted in our local paper amongst the jobs vacancies - now there are not, you are lucky if there is more than a page of job adverts in there (used to be 16 pages of job adverts).

Alison

 

[Philip Hoyle]

Hi Alison, I'm looking at things from a different angle. In my case, I'm persuading clients to take on a book-keeper to reduce my fees - basically those clients who neither do it themselves nor have a book-keeper - the ones who send a box of papers to me and expect me to do their "books" first and then the accounts and tax returns. It's madness for them to be paying my hourly rate for a qualified accountant to balance the bank, and madness for me as I know I can't charge out my time as much as I can for higher end work. I've been telling such clients to either get a book-keeper or do their own book-keeping (preferable on an online system so I can keep an eye on them) and many have seen the light and are moving that way. I'm also using s/e book-keepers to contract out the more basic work. It's crazy that I've been turning down new clients because I'm too busy, but at the same time spending time doing basic work that I can't get a proper hourly rate back from so once I saw the light, I've been actively giving work to good local book-keepers who have proved themselves to me. Perhaps you need to do a bit of networking with your local accountants to see if you can set up some kind of similar referrals. I'm seeing a win-win situation - clients are saving money which is good in recession, I have more time for higher end work and the book-keepers are keeping busy. Slightly differently, there's a local chap who had worked as an accounts senior in local practices for over 20 years - he gave up to work as an in-house accountant for a local firm, but it went bankrupt so he was out of work, but within literally just a few weeks, he's now doing subcontracting work for myself and three other local accountancy practices so he's actually fallen on his feet and now has four "customers" to spread his risk and is also earning a lot more s/e as he was when a wage-slave. The opportunities are out there even in recession. What no-one can do is stand still and expect things to come back again - in a recession, it's those that are adaptable and to some extent "in the right place at the right time" who stand to gain the most. I'm in Lancashire, certainly not a prosperous place, and yes, firms are closing, jobs are being lost, but there's still an awful lot of business activity, new start-ups etc. Remember that if our economic output has fallen by say 5%, that means that 95% of it hasn't fallen - perhaps 5% of businesses have closed, but 95% remain, many of them continuing to grow. You've obviously been badly hit, and have my sympathies, but don't make the mistake of thinking that there's nothing out there and just not bothering to get out and look for it. Opportunities still exist, there's just less of them, so keep looking and I hope things turn out OK for you! Regards Philip

 

[Julies bookkeeping]

Just before the recession started, I took the decision to give up my part time job and expand my self employment, that I started building a few years before and I have not looked back.

I have a great mix of clients who on the whole pay me on time.

 

[DuaneJackson]

How do you find one, who can use certain software, without having to phone hundreds?

I'd suggest speaking to the software vendor

 

[Alison Jones]

Just before the recession started, I took the decision to give up my part time job and expand my self employment, that I started building a few years before and I have not looked back.

I have a great mix of clients who on the whole pay me on time.

HI Julie

You are so lucky to have a good mix of clients.

I was working 70 hours + with the bookkeeping until February then suddenly lost clients to the recession. Problem was one client a major part of my working week, where I was dealing with bookkeeping and VAT returns for many pubs a month, pubs struggling with the recession and this client had inhouse staff as well so the freelance ones lost the extra workload because too many of the pubs closed.

Also had another pub which was my first client decided he could do his own bookkeeping (not sure what the quality will be like because he liked drinking with his customers)

It was more interesting work dealing with the pubs then other types of business but did not do much for my client base in a recession.

Alison

 

[An Oasis]

Wish it was like that where I live, it is a really struggle in Yorkshire. More people are doing their own bookkeeping to keep costs down then hiring a self employed bookkeeper.

Shame you don't live more locally Alison, we seem to be too rural to have anyone (I don't care about quals, just the ability to be able to do the job) with any idea. Had another scary day interviewing three people for a part-time post after the last one, who was completely barking and totally useless.

 

[Alison Jones]

Shame you don't live more locally Alison, we seem to be too rural to have anyone (I don't care about quals, just the ability to be able to do the job) with any idea. Had another scary day interviewing three people for a part-time post after the last one, who was completely barking and totally useless.

Yes is a shame I don't live more locally.

Hope the 3 you interview appeared better than the last one.

When I moved to Yorkshire I assumed work opportunities then self employed bookkeeper opportunities would be better. I lived for a while with my parents in Ludlow, Shropshire before I met my husband (the town people retire to) and not really many opportunities, at one point I had to travel nearly 2 hours each way by public transport (because I could not drive) to a fruit farm in the middle of nowhere which I gave up on after a while because it was too tiring travelling, and there was not many other work opportunities. But since the recession would say Yorkshire is just as bad for opportunities.

Alison

 

[aghent]

Hi All.
I don't normally post on forums but I couldn't resist this one.

I qualified as a fully fledged Bookkeeper just over a year ago. Prior to that my only real experience with finances was as a Project Manager with a large national company and doing my own books when I went self employed in another area. Why I became a bookkeeper is long winded and not really relevant. Suffice to say I now run two businesses one of which is a Bookkeeping Practice.

1. Are bookkeepers in demand?

I would say yes - even in the current climate. I took on two marketing consultants early on in the year and both came up with the same marketing approach. You are a solutions provider, not just a bookkeeper. All the clients I have taken on in the past year have come to me on the basis that I can do what they either can't or don't want to do.
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2. Are qualifications necessary? If so, what qualifications and how long to get them?

They don't hurt and certainly help in securing business by showing commitment to your industry. As more and more regulations are introduced it helps to be qualified and a member of a recognised institute that provides not only up to date support but a wealth of technical backup as well.

As for how long then that depends on you. I obtained my qualifications through a home learning course. Given I was interested in the subject I obtained my Level I Manual and Level II Certificate in Computerised Bookkeeping in under 6 months. I then went into practice whilst I did my Level III Diploma. I've also obtained a Level III Diploma in Self Assesment Tax Returns. The learning process doesn't stop though. I make it a point to keep up to date with things like VAT and Tax. It reallys helps if you can discuss things with your client and know what you are talking about.

I'm a member of the Institute of Certified Bookkeepers and you can obtain qualifications through them if you so wish.
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3. What would be the going rate for self employed bookkeeper with just a little experience?

In the grand scheme of things I am "inexperienced" yet my fees range from £20 an hour to £30 an hour depending on the type of business I'm dealing with - and it doesn't put clients off. Strictly speaking though I don't do an hourly fee. Enter my marketing consultants again. Most businesses like to budget and the biggest problem with bookkeeping is you don't really know how long a job might take and so it's difficult to give clients an accurate quote. Hence I don't charge by the hour. Instead I offer "packages" - certain levels of bookkeeping for a fixed fee - and it works. Clients know exactly how much they are going to spend and what they are getting for their money. You might not win every client that way but the spin off is you do tend to get really good quality clients who know what they are after and are willing to pay for it.
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[AAT Member]

Hi, I am a newly qualified member of the AAT.

I have worked in management accounts all my life and I'm now 24. It is utter rubbish that you need experience in bookkeeping.

I have recently started my own bookkeeping business and in the matter of 2 months have more work than I can handle.

I have taken over bookkeeping from a number of so called experienced bookkeepers who appear to have made something of a hash of things in some cases.

1 springs to mind where there was a clear need for a complete management accounts system and the bookkeeper simply printed out the P&L and put into a spreadsheet. No forcasts, no what if statements, nothing and this person was supposed to be experienced.

Another could not work out ROCE, GP Margin's etc or complete consolidated accounts.

Some of these so called experienced bookkeepers are utterly a waste of time and should be sued at the first opportunity.

If I can complete AAT and set up on my own to the point where I am now looking to take someone on in only 2 months, there is clearly a demand for good quality people.

Qualifications say 1 thing, you can pass an exam and that is all it says.

My advice is advertise, get you name around, call people, pick up yellow pages, use the news papers. Pop along to HMRC training courses for newly self-employed people, they all need someone to do their accounts. The list is endless.

At the end of the day, everyone and I do mean everyone is liable for tax if they earn money, so from new born babies to people in their 90's every single one of them is a potential customer.

One last piece of advice. Don't be a busy fool. Take work where you can make a profit, the last thing you want is to be sorting out someones tax code for £20.00, you want to being looking after someones accounts such as 2 of my clients who are both surveyors charing £22.50 per hour for 4 hours work each.

Oh yes, contact other bookkeepers, accountants and if you come accross work you are not qualified or experienced to do, pass it on, but make sure you get work in return and ask them to show you what was needed and how it could be done. Free training for you that one.

Hope it all works out.

 

[E Storey]

I think there is a huge difference between a "bookkeeper" and someone with years of experience in Accounts with AAT qualifications.

I had always thought of an accountant as a chartered accountant, which AAT is not. But I am beginning to realise that my biggest mistake may well be promoting myself as a merely bookkeeper.

Echo everything from the post above, picking up work from someone with no qualifications charging £15.00 per hour for 30 hours per week to a client I can manage in 4 or 5 hours, then noticing she'd put her self-employed fees through as staff salary.

People want to employ "bookkeepers" in-house for £6 per hour, then dictate that they turn up perhaps just 1-2 hours a day at inconvenient times. I get it all the time, especially via gumtree enquiries! There are loads of people who will take on this work too!

So yes there is a demand, people are not always willing to pay for it though!

 

[Deleted member 81714]

Hi Alison, I'm looking at things from a different angle. In my case, I'm persuading clients to take on a book-keeper to reduce my fees - basically those clients who neither do it themselves nor have a book-keeper - the ones who send a box of papers to me and expect me to do their "books" first and then the accounts and tax returns. It's madness for them to be paying my hourly rate for a qualified accountant to balance the bank, and madness for me as I know I can't charge out my time as much as I can for higher end work. I've been telling such clients to either get a book-keeper or do their own book-keeping (preferable on an online system so I can keep an eye on them) and many have seen the light and are moving that way. I'm also using s/e book-keepers to contract out the more basic work. It's crazy that I've been turning down new clients because I'm too busy, but at the same time spending time doing basic work that I can't get a proper hourly rate back from so once I saw the light, I've been actively giving work to good local book-keepers who have proved themselves to me. ]

Hi Philip ,

a bit off the topic but I'll give it a go anyway ...I've tried to approach practices to offer my services and didn't have much luck so far . I've sent them letters and so far all I got back is something like 'We don't have anything at the moment but we have made our senior staff aware of your availability '.Do you think it's worth phoning ? Who should I ask to speak to ? Thanks

 

[keebo]

Hello All,

I m new user in this forum.I join in this forum for sharing information about bookkeeping services,receipt management service and online bookkeeping software which will help my business in future.

I think that bookkeepers are in demand.And in increasing numbers around the world.There are not enough bookkeepers to fill the numbers of bookkeeping positions available especially in UK.

Cheers!

 

[accountancyextra]

sorry, hadn't realised this was such an old thread...post removed!!