Financial Claims are they for real

[Essexcountryman]

Hi

I am involved in claims management, you know the ones that advertise that they will write off all your credit cards and loans and win you compensation.

The same type of company that makes you all think..Scam how could I get my credit written off......it's just too good to be true, so it cannot be!!

I have been in the process of setting up a company from scratch since January, I have found out that this business has been so full of hype and bull that a decent and honest company can struggle to start. When you consider that we can offer to minimise or write off some of your debt you would think we would be popular. I have been so surprised with the apathy that surrounds an industry which has set up on the back of new legislation from Government.

Anyway I have joined this forum and intend to dispel the myths about what we can do and let people know what is real and what is sales pitch.

The lenders (banks/loans companies) have a great wealth of publicity provided for them by some top news papers and online sources and they are pulling the wool over the public eye. Many ordinary people are as a result missing out on the biggest money giveaway since PM John Major tried to prop up sterling, he lost billions in one day....well done John!

I look forward to being a keen member on this forum.

 

[BusinessIdeas]

Hiya from Gina

 

[mobile_advertising]

welcome to uk business forums ^__^

 

[GRDCredit]

The same type of company that makes you all think..Scam how could I get my credit written off......it's just too good to be true, so it cannot be!!

You said it!

Let's assume for a minute that you can arrange for part or all of an individual's debts to be written off. Where do you stand on the moral question?


Geoff

 

[aaacbc]

Welcom to the forum

 

[aaacbc]

Welcome to the forum

 

[Essexcountryman]

You said it!

Let's assume for a minute that you can arrange for part or all of an individual's debts to be written off. Where do you stand on the moral question?


Geoff

Hi Geoff

What moral question are you referring to;

The part where the lender has not even bothered to complete the paperwork and his duty to make sure that the agreement is compliant with the 1974 Consumer Credit Act.
or
The part where the lender has been so contemptible with the rights of the borrower that they treat them merely as an asset.

Forgive me for not feeling sorry for the lender, they have not acted in a moral way, they are the same chain of business that have brought this country to its knees.

The matter comes down to law as do most things in the UK and the law states in the 2006 Consumer credit Act that the consumer has the right to challenge such agreements, which will inevitably end up as unenforceable in a court of law.

I do not see this as a moral question or obligation, merely the application of the law that protects the consumer.

Thank you for the question Geoff, it is one that often gets raised.

 

[GRDCredit]

Thank you at least for your honesty and prompt reply although I strongly disagree with the sentiments.

The moral issue I am concerned with is an individual borrowing money and 'getting away' with not paying it back on a technicality.

To be frank I am surprised that you have had so many welcome messages on this thread but perhaps I am missing the point.

I know you are a newish company but what sort of success rate have you achieved to date?

You don't have to say how much you charge - I won't tell you my fees! - but when do you charge your 'customers'? Upfront or based on results?


Geoff

 

[Essexcountryman]

Hi Geoff
I can see from your company profile why you would have a problem with this type of business. That being said your concern about individuals getting away with it seems a bit unfair when the following is taken into consideration;

British economy is being mortgaged to prop up the banking system. The banks are being kept alive by our promise to provide an indeterminate proportion of our future economic output to make good the banks' future losses.

Are the banks paying their debt?

As for the welcome messages I am indeed confused as to why I would not get them, as part of a business registered with the Ministry of Justice. I feel you are taking a moral high ground that is unstable at best and unreasonable given all circumstances.

Some client fees are charged up front, that is how most business work unless of course they are a charitable cause, also there are fees when we achieve success. It does not seem odd to me that companies are set up to make money. You mention you charge fees so I know that you understand the principal.


We have had success with clients, if we can't proceed on their behalf where an agreement is written correctly they get a refund less a small fee for the barrister to read the contracts.


The whole business is fairly new since October last year but there is plenty of evidence that cases are being won. What I do not like is the fact that companies are stating that they will win compensation as well as write offs. In reality a majority of cases are unenforceable and the debt can be wiped out, the agreement would need to be rescinded to gain compensation as well and I think that this would happen infrequently.

 

[Zeno]

I'm with Geoff. Two wrongs don't make a right. No-one forced the consumer to spend on credit cards, buy cars on HP etc. Using techicalities to weasel out of their obligations is worse than contemptible.

 

[Gillie]

An extremely simplistic view there of the credit crunch/recession that fails to mention lots of other factors such as consumer greed as well as a few other ones too.

I think Geoff is referring to the fact that yes perhaps some lenders are unscrupulous, but also some consumers are just so as well and take out the loans knowing they aint going to pay them back!

I am of the same opinion as him in that, you spend, you pay!! And yes on the forum we have had this dicussion quite a few times recently and quite a few feel the same way, hence the remark about welcomes.

 

[GRDCredit]

I am typing this on a blackberry so will keep it short!

Wait until I get home though!

I don't see what the banks have got to do with it - yes they are in the wrong but separate issue

Bottom line is for me if someone borrows £5000 they should expect to pay it back

Cannot get easy access to it at the moment but did I not read that all such cases are on hold at present?

Care to back up the statement that most cases are unenforcible? Stats?

Finally, what are you going to do in 5 years time wheb all of this will have been resolved one way or another?

I don't think we are going to agree here!


Geoff

 

[Essexcountryman]

Hi Zeno

Please do not think that this is just about credit cards, one of the other types of claim is made against Mortgage providers.

The client (possibly you) has taken out a Mortgage and later finds out that the lender included in the loan a Payment protection insurance or a mortgage indemnity insurance where the fees were taken up front or included in the loan. The insurance being built into the loan for a period of 20 years or more and not separated out of the interest being accrued. The lender knowing what they were doing but not informing the client how the charges were being applied.

Would you not claim against this, the lenders are quite quick to pay back around £5000 compensation for such cases, I guess that is something you will not bother to check on your own mortgage when you get home.

It is not a case of just technicalities to weasel out of things, often it is just simply righting the wrong and upholding the law. I do not think your moral argument will not stand up to much debate.

 

[Zeno]

Hi Zeno

Please do not think that this is just about credit cards, one of the other types of claim is made against Mortgage providers.

The client (possibly you) has taken out a Mortgage and later finds out that the lender included in the loan a Payment protection insurance or a mortgage indemnity insurance where the fees were taken up front or included in the loan. The insurance being built into the loan for a period of 20 years or more and not separated out of the interest being accrued. The lender knowing what they were doing but not informing the client how the charges were being applied.

Would you not claim against this, the lenders are quite quick to pay back around £5000 compensation for such cases, I guess that is something you will not bother to check on your own mortgage when you get home.

It is not a case of just technicalities to weasel out of things, often it is just simply righting the wrong and upholding the law. I do not think your moral argument will not stand up to much debate.

I would have (and do) see it as my responsibility to read all paperwork before signing although I don't deny that there may have been a certain amount of dubious practice by some financial institutions.

As to the moral argument, it would appear that two posters agree with me. How many with you?

Contrary to the Simpsons, just because banks are big, faceless companies stealing from them is not OK.

 

[Essexcountryman]

I am typing this on a blackberry so will keep it short!

Wait until I get home though!

I don't see what the banks have got to do with it - yes they are in the wrong but separate issue

Bottom line is for me if someone borrows £5000 they should expect to pay it back

Cannot get easy access to it at the moment but did I not read that all such cases are on hold at present?

Care to back up the statement that most cases are unenforcible? Stats?

Finally, what are you going to do in 5 years time wheb all of this will have been resolved one way or another?

I don't think we are going to agree here!


Geoff

I mention the banks because you raised the moral question of not paying money back. If my business went bust I would have to go into bankruptcy and cease trading I would have no choice. I for one am opposed to bailing out the fat cats in this situation and I do not see a problem in allowing the little guy to check out his own options and act upon them in line with current legislation.

Your bottom line as you put it is a personal choice and as we live in a democracy you are free to hold that view as others are free to hold theirs.

As for the cases on hold, you are one of thousands of people who read the misreporting of the Chester Judges statement regarding this and other matters. Like most publicity surrounding the claims industry it is subject to much misreporting in the press and online. The Judges comments were actually aimed at the lenders who should stand up to their responsibilities. He has made sure now that his actual comments were posted on the Ministry of Justice website in order that his words were not further misquoted by interested parties. No cases are on hold, it is true that such cases are not reaching court because they are being settled before they are given the light of publicity that would open the floodgates to similar claims.

I said most case were unenforceable rather than could be rescinded, this would mean cases where we had vetted the agreements and found them to be unenforceable had wholly outweighed the possibility of compensation.

In 5 years time when all this has been resolved I will have a client list with many happy customers, I feel sure that I will survive somehow.

We do not need to agree, I enjoy the chance to dispel much myth and expose the half truths put out by hostile lenders and their partners in the media.

 

[Essexcountryman]

An extremely simplistic view there of the credit crunch/recession that fails to mention lots of other factors such as consumer greed as well as a few other ones too.

I think Geoff is referring to the fact that yes perhaps some lenders are unscrupulous, but also some consumers are just so as well and take out the loans knowing they aint going to pay them back!

I am of the same opinion as him in that, you spend, you pay!! And yes on the forum we have had this dicussion quite a few times recently and quite a few feel the same way, hence the remark about welcomes.

Hi Gillie

Your tax website offers people the chance to claim back something they may be entitled to, I found that very enlightening. You invite people who have paid something more than they should have to claim this back.... I see similarities in our business methods. You also offer Business finance facilities, which could make you a good customer and colleague of banking institutions. Perhaps my cynical thoughts are misplaced.

I am sorry I missed the previous debates, should that make me not welcome?

 

[Mattonella Tile Studio]

As to the moral argument, it would appear that two posters agree with me. How many with you?

Make that three posters Zeno.

 

[Essexcountryman]

The moral argument is a matter of opinion, I am not looking to change your opinion but I am here to debunk the myth and half truths being spread.

 

[Essexcountryman]

The moral argument is a matter of opinion, I am not looking to change your opinion but I am here to debunk the myth and half truths being spread.

 

[GRDCredit]

The moral argument is a matter of opinion, I am not looking to change your opinion but I am here to debunk the myth and half truths being spread.

It wasn't so good you had to say it twice!

 

[GRDCredit]

. He has made sure now that his actual comments were posted on the Ministry of Justice website in order that his words were not further misquoted by interested parties.

Had a quick look and cannot see it - have you got a link to this on the MofJ site?


Geoff

 

[Essexcountryman]

That is what you get when a person is new to the forum :>):redface:
That is what you get when a person is new to the forum :>):redface:
That is what you get when a person is new to the forum :>):redface:
That is what you get when a person is new to the forum :>):redface:
That is what you get when a person is new to the forum :>):redface:

LOL

 

[Gillie]

Hi Gillie

Your tax website offers people the chance to claim back something they may be entitled to, I found that very enlightening. You invite people who have paid something more than they should have to claim this back.... I see similarities in our business methods. You also offer Business finance facilities, which could make you a good customer and colleague of banking institutions. Perhaps my cynical thoughts are misplaced.

I am sorry I missed the previous debates, should that make me not welcome?

No similarities at all ... with a tax rebate, you have wrongly paid too much by perhaps not understanding simple forms or simply not understanding the tax system. They are NOT seeking to wiggle their way out of a debt ... they don't borrow and think of means to escape paying the bill back, they have already OVERPAID, this is the difference, therefore to say they are similar is way off!

And since when did I say you were not welcome? I do believe I didn't even mention the word or imply otherwise ...

 

No similarities at all ... with a tax rebate, you have wrongly paid too much by perhaps not understanding simple forms or simply not understanding the tax system. They are NOT seeking to wiggle their way out of a debt ... they don't borrow and think of means to escape paying the bill back, they have already OVERPAID, this is the difference, therefore to say they are similar is way off!

And since when did I say you were not welcome? I do believe I didn't even mention the word or imply otherwise ...

When a lender misrepresents a loan you have paid to much.

Come on the financial institutes have been screwing the public from the inception of the first bank.Lets be honest.

This guy is just being a modern day Robin Hood in a pinstripe.

sorry for the financial institutes they have brought this country to its knees with there unethical ,imoral and probably illegal activities and then hid behind the taxpayers money.

Get real crooks in whits satin they ain't.

Parasites in every area of society.

good job I am not going to tell you the bad stuff about them.

Earl

 

[Essexcountryman]

The good news is that the lenders in their haste to get consumers signed up and maxed out, forgot to do their job properly. We are finding that contracts do not have APR's mentioned, what the early repayment figure is likely to be or have a signed contract at all. In these cases the contract can be unenforceable. What appears to be happening more and more is that the lenders have not got a system to access the original signed document. No paperwork ....no agreement.

I do not know of one client who took out the credit and then decided just to try and wriggle out of the debt. Our clients are from all walks of life and more often than not they have found that due to the credit crunch they are unable to pay off their debts and seek alternatives. Clients were happily servicing their debt until they were made redundant or their firm was closed down by the bank in the squeeze for money.

The moral crew I find a bit hard to take as they mainly come from people in business that do not produce anything, they are the safe skimmers from bookkeepers to bankers. There are others that take some risks and try and build things, the credit crunch has hit the latter very hard and they need some help.

 

The moral crew I find a bit hard to take as they mainly come from people in business that do not produce anything, they are the safe skimmers from bookkeepers to bankers. There are others that take some risks and try and build things, the credit crunch has hit the latter very hard and they need some help.

Steady on there old chap you are talking about 89% of the British public here.

Based on the manufacturing sector only being 11%.

Earl

 

[Essexcountryman]

89% you say....no wonder I feel so alone in these type of conversations.

:redface:

 

[Zeno]

The moral crew I find a bit hard to take as they mainly come from people in business that do not produce anything, they are the safe skimmers from bookkeepers to bankers. There are others that take some risks and try and build things, the credit crunch has hit the latter very hard and they need some help.

How dare you Sir. I find it rich that a pimple on the arse of society like you who makes a living showing people how to weasel out of their responsibilities and has the gall to believe that you are benefiting the public dares to criticise my profession.

If you activities extended to those who had been genuinely mis-sold a financial product then I would not feel the same of course however to me it seems fairly black & white - you borrow money, you pay it back regardless if you were not told the interest rate etc. That was your responsibility to find out.

The reason that you find we are not collectively polluting our breeches with the joy of your arrival is simply that the majority of us are business owners. We extend credit to our clients and expect them to pay us in the same way that we pay our debts. Sort of how business works you see?

 

[GRDCredit]

89% you say....no wonder I feel so alone in these type of conversations.

:redface:

Why, what is it you are producing?

To be frank - any chance you had of me seeing your side of the argument went with your previous post.

As a 'safe skimmer' myself trust me, I took an enormous risk early this year when I decided to go it alone. It has been hard to keep on top of my financial commitments but never has the thought or will been there to try and get out of these commitments. Thank goodness things are a little easier now - due to hard work and not playing the system. I can move forward with a completely clear conscience.


Geoff

 

[Essexcountryman]

Zeno

I take that I am not on your best friends list?

This is a good and decent business and my clients come from all walks of life and business.

I have met many people with a lofty opinion of themselves, not all of them were in my church. They have the need to look down on others and ex pout their moral code to the unsuspecting and timid.

I came here to talk about my business and here you are banging on about morals that I doubt you even understand yourself.

 

[GRDCredit]

This is a good and decent business and my clients come from all walks of life and business.

Good - for you, undoubtedly

Decent - absolutely not

Business - anything with a shelf life cannot be considered, in my opinion, a business. If I am being kind I would call it an opportunity, if I was not feeling so kind, it's a scam!


Geoff

 

[Zeno]

Zeno

I take that I am not on your best friends list?

This is a good and decent business and my clients come from all walks of life and business.

I have met many people with a lofty opinion of themselves, not all of them were in my church. They have the need to look down on others and ex pout their moral code to the unsuspecting and timid.

I came here to talk about my business and here you are banging on about morals that I doubt you even understand yourself.

It may be a good business as in generating cash for yourself however decent is another matter. Law firms specialising in personal injury generate huge amounts of cash too but you could hardly call them decent.

I do not have a lofty opinion of myself however I do have a moral code (and a professional one too if my conscience fails me) that see's borrowing money and not paying it back as wrong.

 

[Essexcountryman]

It may be a good business as in generating cash for yourself however decent is another matter. Law firms specialising in personal injury generate huge amounts of cash too but you could hardly call them decent.

I do not have a lofty opinion of myself however I do have a moral code (and a professional one too if my conscience fails me) that see's borrowing money and not paying it back as wrong.

Zeno you seem stuck on this moral crusade, my business is not quite top draw enough for you, I get that.

If any of your clients are scruffy tasteless individuals I would be happy for you to refer them to me, I will be the one dressed as a spiv standing in the shadows trying to gain the attention of those who would fall victim to my evil ways.

 

[Zeno]

Ok, in summary:-

A client of yours was offered a credit card some time ago. He duly applied and was given a £10k limit which he has now blown on wine, women & song.

He comes to you and you find that due to some irregularity in the paperwork means you can work your magic and have the debt written off.

Are you telling me that you really don't see the moral issue with this?

 

[GRDCredit]

Had a quick look and cannot see it - have you got a link to this on the MofJ site?


Geoff

Could be oversight of course but I have not seen you post this link?


Geoff

PS I don't think any other introduction thread has stretched this long!

 

[Dawg]

Ok, in summary:-

A client of yours was offered a credit card some time ago. He duly applied and was given a £10k limit which he has now blown on wine, women & song.

He comes to you and you find that due to some irregularity in the paperwork means you can work your magic and have the debt written off.

Are you telling me that you really don't see the moral issue with this?

Only the song bit. Probably songs by Michael....arrgh, sharrup, don't go there.

The OP won't see the point about morality, but will continue to <nasal voice> stick to the letter of the law</nasal voice>, doing what is legal but not what is right.
Waste of time arguing, perhaps? Especially as it was covered so comprehensively in an earlier thread.

 

How dare you Sir. I find it rich that a pimple on the arse of society like you who makes a living showing people how to weasel out of their responsibilities and has the gall to believe that you are benefiting the public dares to criticise my profession.

This is UKBF not the Times.

Now do the accountants get the seats in front of the Lawyers or behind.?:|

Earl

 

[Essexcountryman]

Zeno
I do not look into the spending habits of my clients, although the ones that you describe that are having a life, I am thinking of excluding.

You have me thinking now that I should vett my clients before I do business with them, here is a form I am sending all potential clients from this point on;

1.Do you drink....if yes how many units per day?
2.When you drink do you pay cash or charge it to your credit card?
3.Are you married - single - Gay or bisexual?
4.Do you cavort around town with loose women?
5.Have you ever purchased singing or dancing material using your credit card?

If you have answered yes to 1.2.4 or 5 we cannot do any business with you on moral grounds, if you have answered question 3 we would ask you now to consider your answers again and fill out our separate questionnaire.

You will also need to have a person of some standing in the community to sign to say that you have filled this form out correctly and truthfully. This person needs to be a Doctor/Lawyer/Police Officer or MP.

Zeno I do hope you vett all your own clients.

In reality I do not take a moral position on the person you describe above, although your view of people did put a smile on my face......textbook moralist. Is everyone but you out singing and drinking and !!!!!!!

 

[Essexcountryman]

Could be oversight of course but I have not seen you post this link?


Geoff

PS I don't think any other introduction thread has stretched this long!

Sorry Geoff....senior moment

http://www.claimsregulation.gov.uk/ look on this page for;

Unenforceable Consumer Credit Agreement cases – Update
The Judicial Communications Office has issued a statement in light of the activity surrounding the recent case heard in Chester County Court by His Honour Judge Halbert and the speculation and misreporting which followed the hearing. Contrary to some reports, there is no general stay on cases challenging the enforceability of Consumer Credit Agreements.
Cases of this type will therefore continue to be heard and decided on their own particular facts, although the Court may group similar cases for trial, where appropriate, in an effort to save costs and time. Further consideration is also being given to the transfer of selected cases to the Commercial Court in London for definitive ruling where new questions of law have been identified. The media release can be read in full here.

 

[Essexcountryman]

Quite an achievement:redface: