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Held to ransom by landlord?

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maria102

maria102

Free Member
Oct 25, 2005
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Manchester
I'm due to sign the lease at lunchtime for my shop and the estate agent has just called to say that the landlord is no longer offering a month rent free as its four months since I showed an interest!

I made it very clear that to them from the start when I was going to be able to take the lease, though they are saying that they wanted me to take it on in August, even though I neve agreed to it. Part of the justification is that I am getting the rent at a knock down price (they agreed to it, the shop is run down)

I am at the end of my tether now, they know I have time constraints, but I don't want to be held to ransom..,
 
Can you afford to back out if necessary? What's worth more to you - the free months rent, or the fact you've got premises sorted? If you've got the time to find an alternative place it could be worth risking it and saying you're not signing. Would they find somebody willing to take over quickly or would they just be losing money whilst it sat empty?
 
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Mattonella Tile Studio said:
Can you afford to back out if necessary? What's worth more to you - the free months rent, or the fact you've got premises sorted? If you've got the time to find an alternative place it could be worth risking it and saying you're not signing. Would they find somebody willing to take over quickly or would they just be losing money whilst it sat empty?
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I fully agree. You would be doing the landlord a service by taking on the lease. If he is already going against what you agreed before you have signed the lease what will he be like later on???

Regards
Gary
 
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Mattonella Tile Studio said:
Can you afford to back out if necessary? What's worth more to you - the free months rent, or the fact you've got premises sorted? If you've got the time to find an alternative place it could be worth risking it and saying you're not signing. Would they find somebody willing to take over quickly or would they just be losing money whilst it sat empty?
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I suppose I can afford it back out, there are two other shops around there, possibly with less fit out, but less opportunity to lease out other floors. If they don't go with me, its unlikely that they will get someone else within the month, as its been empty nearly a year!

spigwell said:
I fully agree. You would be doing the landlord a service by taking on the lease. If he is already going against what you agreed before you have signed the lease what will he be like later on???

Regards
Gary
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Thats what I think, if there are problems at the outset, it doesn't bode well for the future :(
 
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I fully agree with the other posts. I tend to think this is a bluff in order to get more money. If you give in now, what will the landlord do in the future. If you are in business sometimes you have to be hard. I would never give in to blackamil.
 
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anfy1002 said:
I fully agree with the other posts. I tend to think this is a bluff in order to get more money. If you give in now, what will the landlord do in the future. If you are in business sometimes you have to be hard. I would never give in to blackamil.
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Thanks, blackmail I think it is... these were always my terms- take on the lease the beginning of september with a rent free month to refurbish. I haven't changed my mind, they are just saying now that they never agreed to them.
 
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i'm no expert on this
but i believe landlords now pay full business rates on empty premises
tell them you'll pull out if you dont get one month rent free (i negotiated 3 months rent free, so you're being generous) and that he will be the one out of pocket
good business tenants are hard to find! dont lose your freebie!
 
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PTHubCoUk said:
i'm no expert on this
but i believe landlords now pay full business rates on empty premises
tell them you'll pull out if you dont get one month rent free (i negotiated 3 months rent free, so you're being generous) and that he will be the one out of pocket
good business tenants are hard to find! dont lose your freebie!
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I know, but I don't want to lose that shop! there were a lot of reasons I took it, but I suppose if I am black and white about it, it was the fact that there was a possiblity for subletting the other floors....
 
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I managed to get a 6 month rent free period on my shop as it needed work done to it.

Tell the letting agent that if you do not get a months free rent then you wont move in for another month. That may scare the landlord into agreeing.
 
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Some years ago i was in almost an identical position. However i stuck by my guns and told them to forget it. I was amazed how soon they came back with better terms. You must remember they are just trying to make money. Sometimes you have to be bullish. Just hint to them that you are interested in somewhere else! I bet they back down.

Regards

Tony
 
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That's the problem, they know you want it. The estate agent got funny with us when we said we're seeing a solicitor before signing the lease. They put the pressure on as this was the building we wanted. Looking back we crumbled far too easily and I think we could have got a better deal.
 
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Make sure you can sublet it officially, and if it has been empty for over a year and wish to start negotiations again ask for three months rent free.

It's a buyers market at the moment, you have to trust your own instincts, even if the landlord believes he might rent it soon it will be costing him dear every month it lies empty, so if you ask for three months he will probably be very happy to settle for 1 month.

Best of luck.
 
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was just about to type exactly the same thing but mh1 beat me to it -totally agree with that idea, if you start banding about the idea of three months rent free he will soon realise that one month is not a great amount in the scheme of things.

Also, since you are starting a new lease from scratch, please try as hard as you can to agree monthly rental payments rather than three months in advance. The more tenants that get this, the better the precedent for everybody else. The property industry hides behind some very archaic rules, ie upward only rent reviews and quarterly in advance, mainly because no-one has made an effort to complain. There is a large movement taking place amongst the big retailers, to force the issue, and so the more ammo the better.

I have tried to ask for existing leases but they hide behind the wording in the lease, so as soon as anything is up for renewal I will try to get it reworded from the start.

....every little helps!
 
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MH1 said:
Make sure you can sublet it officially, and if it has been empty for over a year and wish to start negotiations again ask for three months rent free.

It's a buyers market at the moment, you have to trust your own instincts, even if the landlord believes he might rent it soon it will be costing him dear every month it lies empty, so if you ask for three months he will probably be very happy to settle for 1 month.

Best of luck.
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The solicitor has agreed with them the opportunity to sublet. But how do I now asked for three months rent free when they have turned down one month, I am confused :|
 
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I am pretty hot on contracts but I have never signed a property lease without getting my solicitor to check it over first. If it is a full repairing and insuring lease you'll need to be clear of your obligations under the terms...

A whole host of nasties are usually contained within commercial leases because once you've signed it (like any business contract) there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.

I would go back say you want 3 months free rent and if you are liable for the maintenance, ensure you set an annual cap (which would be relevant to the size of the building).

Ensure that you are only responsible for the proportionate cost of the actual space that you are leasing... so if you lease two floors of a four story building, you will not be responsible for more than half of any maintenance costs.

Consider electricity/gas/water meters, and check to see if your portion of the premises has its own, if not either demand that it does, or ensure you are happy with the billing arrangements.

Whatever you do make sure all agreements are included in the contract, or as an appendix, and signed by then landlord. If it’s not in writing you will struggle to prove the agreement.

Remember that all contracts are negotiable, if you don’t ask you won’t get. Good luck J
 
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who_me said:
I would go back say you want 3 months free rent and if you are liable for the maintenance, ensure you set an annual cap (which would be relevant to the size of the building).

Ensure that you are only responsible for the proportionate cost of the actual space that you are leasing... so if you lease two floors of a four story building, you will not be responsible for more than half of any maintenance costs.

Consider electricity/gas/water meters, and check to see if your portion of the premises has its own, if not either demand that it does, or ensure you are happy with the billing arrangements.

Whatever you do make sure all agreements are included in the contract, or as an appendix, and signed by then landlord. If it’s not in writing you will struggle to prove the agreement.

Remember that all contracts are negotiable, if you don’t ask you won’t get. Good luck J
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The lease is for the whole building.....so the utilities are all going to be mine, same for repairs. I have hired a solicitor that has gone through it with me, though he says its my judgement on whether to sign today or not.
 
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Sorry not reading your thread properly, just tell them "I have thought about your revised offer, but it's not good enough, these are what I need...." if they say no walk away.
 
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It is ultimately up to you.... it'd just negotiation... if you can afford to walk away then walk, tell them if they change their mind give you a call, and look else where, if they think you're off they are likely to call you, if it been empty for so long....
 
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Stick to your guns Maria. It appears to me that you hold most of the aces here. They have an empty shop and it is costing them cash to keep it empty. There are other shops in the area which are vacant and will suit your purposes. Consider giving them an ultimatum - "Stick to the original deal or I'm out of here".

If you take their current offer they will see you as weak and who knows what other stunts they will try to pull once you are in the premises.

Hope it works out for you.

David.
 
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maria102 said:
Sorry to sound stupid, but how? "errh, I know you have now said no to one months rent free, but now I want three months rent free"???
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Because it’s ok to say it’s not a great offer… they’ve changed their mind, now you’ve changed yours.
 
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I did it by turning round to my letting agent and asking him for a list of other shops in the area. Within the hour they agreed to 6 months rent free.
 
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yankee candleman said:
I did it by turning round to my letting agent and asking him for a list of other shops in the area. Within the hour they agreed to 6 months rent free.
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Exactly, don't look too desperate to get your hands on a particular shop. You almost have to make them think that you are really not bothered about getting it one way or the other. Its all a big game so play it like a pro!
 
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As one of the earlier post said "Its a buyers market" I would suggest you adopt the following attitude. They have broken the initial deal agrrement. So you now have to start again. Now you should be bullish and demand 3 months rent free period. At the moment landlords are not in a strong position to mess people about.
 
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Hey good for you, and good luck. It is a buyers market I am sure it has already been mentioned but maybe see if you can get a deal on any of the vacant shops around the area, just in case... :)
 
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wood1e2 said:
Hey good for you, and good luck. It is a buyers market I am sure it has already been mentioned but maybe see if you can get a deal on any of the vacant shops around the area, just in case... :)
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Yep, they haven't phoned me back and I was supposed to be signing at 12.30 - so will make my way over anyway and see what else is about ;)
 
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Sh*te, I made my way over there but the estate agents didn't...and I had a joiner meeting me there too! tried to call the agent, first time answerphone, second time it rang out and he put the phone down on me..its not looking too great now
 
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Well done on sticking to your guns and not caving in :D Like many have said it is a buyers market at the moment and you are in the position of power. Let them pay rates for another year on their empty shop whilst you go and get yourself a cracking deal elsewhere.
Your agent should be working for you not putting the phone down on you, he doesn't get anything unless his closes the deal. Most unproffesional if you ask me.
 
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I.P Paul said:
Your agent should be working for you not putting the phone down on you, he doesn't get anything unless his closes the deal. Most unproffesional if you ask me.
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This is the problem I had when I was looking for a property (for studio purposes). Let us know what happens.

If it doesn't work out for you this time you will probably find another place that you will be much happier with. Maybe go to a rival estate agents too.
 
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The solicitor actually said he is not surprised at the shoddy service as he has dealt with them before..and unfortunately for me, they have the monopoly on the empty premises round there. Half of me thinks, oh just pay the money and get it signed up, but they have gone back on their word (bizarrely they said the offer of rent free was August when I had not even signed the lease? a rent free period before the lease started?!!)

The other half of me things (a) I don't want to be shafted and (b) there is a lot uses I could put that money to..

There are two other options, one off the main road and another next door but one, but much smaller..
 
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