Held to ransom by landlord?

[KM-Tiger]

I have just found the lease and it just shows the name of the landlady with a c/o the estate agents address....

Maybe it's just me, but that fact alone would set off some really loud alarm bells.

I'd want to know exactly who my landlord was. The agent is a disposable intermediary, who could easily disappear during the lifetime of the lease. And also how does a solicitor check title without the name and address of the owner?

 

[wood1e2]

Crickeys an estate agent not driving a one series...lol

 

[dp0848]

...as Wishes said I need to keep focused on why I wanted the first property without the distraction of subletting, and it just because of the location.

In the long run this episode will be but a distant memory. Focus on your business Maria and doing what is best for its future.

 

[maria102]

Maybe it's just me, but that fact alone would set off some really loud alarm bells.

I'd want to know exactly who my landlord was. The agent is a disposable intermediary, who could easily disappear during the lifetime of the lease. And also how does a solicitor check title without the name and address of the owner?

Great Point, I shall ask my solicitor! Jeez....don't say he's not up to scratch either.

 

[Eleanor]

Not entirely accurate, Fiat Punto...

It doesnt matter what he drives he is clearly a T*t-Head.

 

[Zeno]

Oh, don't get me started on solicitors!

(Rich coming from an accountant I suppose)

 

[wishes]

The agent should have given you Head Of Terms wherein the Landlords details would appear together with his solicitors details. Try having a direct conversation with these people if you can.
The Agent will obviously play a waiting game at both the buyers and sellers expense.
You obviously are not happy with the situation I would walk away. I'm sure you remember the saying .....let it go it wasn't meant to be. Perhaps there is something better awaiting round the corner.
I know its difficult for you now but try to look at all businees dealings from afar for an instance to see if you are getting a fair/good deal.
Good Luck.

 

[dp0848]

Oh, don't get me started on solicitors!

(Rich coming from an accountant I suppose)

Nothing wrong with us accountants Zeno, we are the salt of the earth. Maria even married one!!

 

[maria102]

The agent should have given you Head Of Terms wherein the Landlords details would appear together with his solicitors details. Try having a direct conversation with these people if you can.
The Agent will obviously play a waiting game at both the buyers and sellers expense.
You obviously are not happy with the situation I would walk away. I'm sure you remember the saying .....let it go it wasn't meant to be. Perhaps there is something better awaiting round the corner.
I know its difficult for you now but try to look at all businees dealings from afar for an instance to see if you are getting a fair/good deal.
Good Luck.

The landlord decided not to go to the expense of hiring a solicitor, hence the c/o on the lease.

Its difficult just to walk away without having something else in place as I have orders placed with suppliers and you have serious time constraints selling autumn/winter stuff as you only get three months before it goes in the sale.

 

[maria102]

The thing that is irritating me the most is that he keeps saying about me changing my mind and I am not! I made it very clear to the agent when I could take over the lease and when I wanted the rent-free. It was in the drawing up of the lease he chose to amend this and say that his clients terms were that I took the shop in August as it had been going on for three months! so what! I told them when I could take it as I am under contract until the end of September.

 

[wishes]

Surely all this will go through your respective solicitors? If not THINK AGAIN!!!!!!
What does your solicitor say who is he communicating with as far as the terms of the lease are concerned.
There comes a point where you have to take a view( calculated of course) and move forward or otherwise.
Orders can be cancelled. Your tenancy should be clear number one priority.
Good luck all others will advise the buck stops with you.

 

[maria102]

Surely all this will go through your respective solicitors? If not THINK AGAIN!!!!!!
What does your solicitor say who is he communicating with as far as the terms of the lease are concerned.
There comes a point where you have to take a view( calculated of course) and move forward or otherwise.
Orders can be cancelled. Your tenancy should be clear number one priority.
Good luck all others will advise the buck stops with you.

Its going through my solicitor and we have made them use a copy of a lease provided by the law society so it is not biase towards the estate agents client.

My solicitor has just said that its my call and he would tell them where to go....

 

[wishes]

Until the exchange of contracts both you and the seller have the right to walk away and ask to change the terms. Again there should have been Head of Terms agreed at the start. Please refere to this if you have this.

 

[maria102]

Until the exchange of contracts both you and the seller have the right to walk away and ask to change the terms. Again there should have been Head of Terms agreed at the start. Please refere to this if you have this.

No there was nothing like that and there are no contract to "exchange" as such, I am signing their lease, there is nothing to exchange, just me to sign.

 

[wishes]

The first set of contract is exchange followed by completion.
Please be aware of what you are signing. You will be liable as an individual to the terms of the lease.

 

[wishes]

Once you exchange ( sign as you put it) there is no going back.

 

[maria102]

The first set of contract is exchange followed by completion.
Please be aware of what you are signing. You will be liable as an individual to the terms of the lease.

I am aware of what I am signing?! I know I am liable as I am detailed as the guarantor..

Do you think we are buying or have I not made it clear? We are using a copy of a law society lease which is for three years and the property is being managed by the estate agents. There are no sets of exchange and completion, we are not using that route for a commerical lease. Just a standard law society lease which is being amended by my solicitor?

 

[maria102]

Once you exchange ( sign as you put it) there is no going back.

I am confused then? you mean that exchange in legal/property terms is where we both sign a copy of the lease, therefore exchange. I cannot imagine that there is anything untoward about it as I had hired a solicitor?

 

[wishes]

Is the term of the lease 3 years? what happens at the end od 3years are you able to renew? or are you contracting out of the Landlord and tenants Act?
Whatever the lease your solicitor should have explained the way ithappens first, as per my understanding, if all the terms are agreeable you exchange then it is completion. Seek your solicitors advise.

 

[maria102]

Is the term of the lease 3 years? what happens at the end od 3years are you able to renew? or are you contracting out of the Landlord and tenants Act?
Whatever the lease your solicitor should have explained the way ithappens first, as per my understanding, if all the terms are agreeable you exchange then it is completion. Seek your solicitors advise.

I am able to renew, which is what both the solicitor and estate agent have confirmed. :|

 

[wishes]

Have a meeting with your solicitor and go through all the tearms of the lease.

 

[maria102]

I think something that may help is the Code of Practice for Commercial Leaes:
http://www.bpf.org.uk/pdf/16091/pub10194741883195-1.pdf

 

[maria102]

Have a meeting with your solicitor and go through all the trems of the lease.

I have! Please can you tell me why you think I haven't? Are you a commercial solicitor, is there something I don't appear to know but should?

 

[wishes]

Only Your Solicitor Will Be Able To Advise You On Legal Matters.

 

[maria102]

Only Your Solicitor Will Be Able To Advise You On Legal Matters.

I know, thats why I hired him....but you seem inisistent that I am missing some knowledge, so please can you tell me, are you a solicitor and what do you think I am missing out on knowing?

 

[Eleanor]

Have a big glass of wine, Maria, this really does suck but don't spend all night worrying and being annoyed about it. Have a chat with your hubby, he might be able to come up with a few ideas!

 

[maria102]

Have a big glass of wine, Maria, this really does suck but don't spend all night worrying and being annoyed about it. Have a chat with your hubby, he might be able to come up with a few ideas!

Big glass of wine now poured...I have downloaded the code of conduct and they have clearly gone against it, so will speak to my solicitor tomorrow

I thought I would have flippin keys today.....

 

[fathippy]

Just remember that if you go the the website of the Land Registary you can, for a small fee (£4 I think) find out who owns a property and their contact details.

Whilst it is a clever idea, I have found that a vast majority of landlords just use the property address as contact details. I guess this is to stop people calling them direct as in this situation, but whatever the reasons are, do not get your hopes too high. Then again £20 may not be too high a price to pay - although I think that is for all the available documents. If you drill down to the correct one I am sure it is nearer the £4 mentioned above.

 

[maria102]

Whilst it is a clever idea, I have found that a vast majority of landlords just use the property address as contact details. I guess this is to stop people calling them direct as in this situation, but whatever the reasons are, do not get your hopes too high. Then again £20 may not be too high a price to pay - although I think that is for all the available documents. If you drill down to the correct one I am sure it is nearer the £4 mentioned above.

I think there may be other ways as she worked in the shop herself for 18 years.

Must admit though, after a sleepless night, still don't know what to do - time is money etc, though it feels like I am just about to give a substantial amount of money away...

 

[fathippy]

Here's another idea then if the landlord is really winding you up....

The landlord decided not to go to the expense of hiring a solicitor, hence the c/o on the lease.

If the landlord is not being prudent, why not put the lease in the name of an off the shelf BVI company with no personal guarantees. With no solicitor this will slip through the net. Then if any problems arise, they will struggle to enforce anything!

(apologies to the 'censors' for this)

 

[maria102]

Here's another idea then if the landlord is really winding you up....



If the landlord is not being prudent, why not put the lease in the name of an off the shelf BVI company with no personal guarantees. With no solicitor this will slip through the net. Then if any problems arise, they will struggle to enforce anything!

(apologies to the 'censors' for this)

The problem with that, is that they have credit checked me and got a referenence from the bank, ie they check you out properly

 

[fathippy]

doesnt stop your solicitor from rewording the lease before returning it. It is up to the landlords advisors to check it before signing. Also, it is amazing how many people assume that eg. John Smith Ltd must have some implicit guarantee from John Smith, even though it is a different legal entity.

sorry - am going a bit off topic here

 

[maria102]

Sorry to labour this guys, but do you think I should raise a complaint? the agents are regulated by RICS and I have just found some info regarding raising a complaint against them on their website.....or do I not bother wasting my time?

 

[BusinessDeli]

Walk away Maria. If the agent will also be managing the lease then you're in for a heap of grief from the sounds of things. Going only by the posts they are inadequate to the task put to them and wholly unprofessional. Skip the complaint too (IMO), adding to the anger about the situation won't help you.

 

[maria102]

Walk away Maria. If the agent will also be managing the lease then you're in for a heap of grief from the sounds of things. Going only by the posts they are inadequate to the task put to them and wholly unprofessional. Skip the complaint too (IMO), adding to the anger about the situation won't help you.

Thanks, you may be right - trouble is the other two options are property managed by them also....

The complaint, I think I probably did as a bit of therapy to get my head around the sequence of events...I also think that would be more trouble than its worth...

 

Don't do business with people who lie to your face.

End of story.

Earl

 

[BarryM]

There's no right answer, as only hindsight is going to tell you what to do. Personally? I'd ask for 2 months rent free or just walk.

 

[maria102]

There's no right answer, as only hindsight is going to tell you what to do. Personally? I'd ask for 2 months rent free or just walk.

Oh, its difficult, I got a considerable amount off the asking price and have negotiated down to the rent of just one floor on other shops in the area, whereas this is the whole building....wondering if I have last minute nerves whereas I should just be negotiating....

 

[i234i]

Maria,

I have just had a good look through this thread and was in a similar situation over the past year so i thought i would share my story.

I found a property online that was for lease and had agreed to lease the property in June 07. It went through my solicitor, to the agent and to the Landlords solicitor and they took forever to get back to my solicitor. In the end 6 months later and we hadnt even had any firm information.. I told them they had 2 weeks or im walking away. I take it they took it as a pinch of salt and then the date came, i was nervous and scared. Just told them it was okay i would leave the property and look elsewhere... *Cue* Ear bashing from them. It was terrible chasing round after them like a headless chicken trying to accomodate them when they didnt care about me.

I walked away from it, paid the Solicitor etc and then started on the hunt for a new property. I wanted to do it all properly. I viewed a couple of places and they were alright but didnt really suit totally.

Then an agent i was in touch with (June08) passed me onto a company who had part of there building for rent (Who do a service we can work along with although its separate building). The property was a little small from what we wanted. I spoke to the agent. Went to meet the landlord of the property and had a good look around. Seemed a great place and then the usual I WANT IT - I WANT IT started to kick in. At the end the landlord swapped business cards with me. I then spoke to them direct afterwards and they offered us some extra space that would work for me. They sent a head of terms to me and i then returned it with what i would be prepared to offer and then a few meet ups for dinner (courtesy of them) we had the information down and sorted.

My solicitor got the details through and was all what we had agreed and hammered through together to get something to suit both that we were happy with and they offered me 3 MONTHS RENT FREE for fit out ((Music studio - engineer/architect etc)) which was what i was after. I got some money off the rent too.

I was so glad in the end that i had waited a little bit longer to find a place that was actually even better than the original place (even though i couldnt have admitted that at the time as i couldnt think of letting the 1st place go)

Next week im going down to sign the lease and then get the keys for the place with the landlord.

Meeting them in advance, knowing and arranging something to suit both was so much better than trying to get something from people via email/post like the first landlord.

I hope some of this is of use to you and you do what you think is best for the long run and not what your heart says at this time.

Best of luck

 

[complete]

Look at the broader picture.

So far you have spent time and money in securing the lease on this premises.

You just need to get in, set up and start earning money.

If you pass this opportunity up for the sake of a months free rent, it would cost you more in time and money to find somewhere else and the delay of getting your business off the ground means that you will be losing out on income.

I have just completed a new 10 year lease with no break clause but have the property at £2000 per year less than other smaller properties in my location.

My business has been in this premises for 12 years now and I did not want to tie in a 10 year lease but in the end the cost of moving, legal fees etc would far outweigh signing the newer more stringent lease.

You have a choice:- Move in to the property you set your sights on now and pay from day one but get on with your business or cancel and start from scratch incurring more costs and lose out on income.

Get your company limited and ask for the lease to reflect that personal guarantees be removed after 1 year.