Held to ransom by landlord?

Discussion in 'General Business Forum' started by maria102, Sep 1, 2008.

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  1. maria102

    maria102 UKBF Newcomer Free Member

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    I'm due to sign the lease at lunchtime for my shop and the estate agent has just called to say that the landlord is no longer offering a month rent free as its four months since I showed an interest!

    I made it very clear that to them from the start when I was going to be able to take the lease, though they are saying that they wanted me to take it on in August, even though I neve agreed to it. Part of the justification is that I am getting the rent at a knock down price (they agreed to it, the shop is run down)

    I am at the end of my tether now, they know I have time constraints, but I don't want to be held to ransom..,
     
    Posted: Sep 1, 2008 By: maria102 Member since: Oct 25, 2005
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  2. Mattonella Tile Studio

    Mattonella Tile Studio UKBF Ace Free Member

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    Can you afford to back out if necessary? What's worth more to you - the free months rent, or the fact you've got premises sorted? If you've got the time to find an alternative place it could be worth risking it and saying you're not signing. Would they find somebody willing to take over quickly or would they just be losing money whilst it sat empty?
     
    Posted: Sep 1, 2008 By: Mattonella Tile Studio Member since: Jun 10, 2008
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  3. spigwell

    spigwell UKBF Newcomer Full Member

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    I fully agree. You would be doing the landlord a service by taking on the lease. If he is already going against what you agreed before you have signed the lease what will he be like later on???

    Regards
    Gary
     
    Posted: Sep 1, 2008 By: spigwell Member since: Mar 7, 2008
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  4. maria102

    maria102 UKBF Newcomer Free Member

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    I suppose I can afford it back out, there are two other shops around there, possibly with less fit out, but less opportunity to lease out other floors. If they don't go with me, its unlikely that they will get someone else within the month, as its been empty nearly a year!

    Thats what I think, if there are problems at the outset, it doesn't bode well for the future :(
     
    Posted: Sep 1, 2008 By: maria102 Member since: Oct 25, 2005
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  5. anfy1002

    anfy1002 UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    25 7
    I fully agree with the other posts. I tend to think this is a bluff in order to get more money. If you give in now, what will the landlord do in the future. If you are in business sometimes you have to be hard. I would never give in to blackamil.
     
    Posted: Sep 1, 2008 By: anfy1002 Member since: Aug 20, 2008
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  6. maria102

    maria102 UKBF Newcomer Free Member

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    Thanks, blackmail I think it is... these were always my terms- take on the lease the beginning of september with a rent free month to refurbish. I haven't changed my mind, they are just saying now that they never agreed to them.
     
    Posted: Sep 1, 2008 By: maria102 Member since: Oct 25, 2005
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  7. PTHubCoUk

    PTHubCoUk UKBF Newcomer Free Member

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    i'm no expert on this
    but i believe landlords now pay full business rates on empty premises
    tell them you'll pull out if you dont get one month rent free (i negotiated 3 months rent free, so you're being generous) and that he will be the one out of pocket
    good business tenants are hard to find! dont lose your freebie!
     
    Posted: Sep 1, 2008 By: PTHubCoUk Member since: Jul 15, 2008
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  8. maria102

    maria102 UKBF Newcomer Free Member

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    I know, but I don't want to lose that shop! there were a lot of reasons I took it, but I suppose if I am black and white about it, it was the fact that there was a possiblity for subletting the other floors....
     
    Posted: Sep 1, 2008 By: maria102 Member since: Oct 25, 2005
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  9. yankee candleman

    yankee candleman UKBF Newcomer Free Member

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    I managed to get a 6 month rent free period on my shop as it needed work done to it.

    Tell the letting agent that if you do not get a months free rent then you wont move in for another month. That may scare the landlord into agreeing.
     
    Posted: Sep 1, 2008 By: yankee candleman Member since: Aug 21, 2008
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  10. anfy1002

    anfy1002 UKBF Newcomer Free Member

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    Some years ago i was in almost an identical position. However i stuck by my guns and told them to forget it. I was amazed how soon they came back with better terms. You must remember they are just trying to make money. Sometimes you have to be bullish. Just hint to them that you are interested in somewhere else! I bet they back down.

    Regards

    Tony
     
    Posted: Sep 1, 2008 By: anfy1002 Member since: Aug 20, 2008
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  11. Mattonella Tile Studio

    Mattonella Tile Studio UKBF Ace Free Member

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    That's the problem, they know you want it. The estate agent got funny with us when we said we're seeing a solicitor before signing the lease. They put the pressure on as this was the building we wanted. Looking back we crumbled far too easily and I think we could have got a better deal.
     
    Posted: Sep 1, 2008 By: Mattonella Tile Studio Member since: Jun 10, 2008
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  12. MH1

    MH1 UKBF Newcomer Free Member

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    Make sure you can sublet it officially, and if it has been empty for over a year and wish to start negotiations again ask for three months rent free.

    It's a buyers market at the moment, you have to trust your own instincts, even if the landlord believes he might rent it soon it will be costing him dear every month it lies empty, so if you ask for three months he will probably be very happy to settle for 1 month.

    Best of luck.
     
    Posted: Sep 1, 2008 By: MH1 Member since: Dec 27, 2007
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  13. fathippy

    fathippy UKBF Enthusiast Free Member

    600 94
    was just about to type exactly the same thing but mh1 beat me to it -totally agree with that idea, if you start banding about the idea of three months rent free he will soon realise that one month is not a great amount in the scheme of things.

    Also, since you are starting a new lease from scratch, please try as hard as you can to agree monthly rental payments rather than three months in advance. The more tenants that get this, the better the precedent for everybody else. The property industry hides behind some very archaic rules, ie upward only rent reviews and quarterly in advance, mainly because no-one has made an effort to complain. There is a large movement taking place amongst the big retailers, to force the issue, and so the more ammo the better.

    I have tried to ask for existing leases but they hide behind the wording in the lease, so as soon as anything is up for renewal I will try to get it reworded from the start.

    ....every little helps!
     
    Posted: Sep 1, 2008 By: fathippy Member since: Jul 17, 2008
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  14. maria102

    maria102 UKBF Newcomer Free Member

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    The solicitor has agreed with them the opportunity to sublet. But how do I now asked for three months rent free when they have turned down one month, I am confused :|
     
    Posted: Sep 1, 2008 By: maria102 Member since: Oct 25, 2005
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  15. who_me

    who_me UKBF Newcomer Free Member

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    I am pretty hot on contracts but I have never signed a property lease without getting my solicitor to check it over first. If it is a full repairing and insuring lease you'll need to be clear of your obligations under the terms...

    A whole host of nasties are usually contained within commercial leases because once you've signed it (like any business contract) there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.

    I would go back say you want 3 months free rent and if you are liable for the maintenance, ensure you set an annual cap (which would be relevant to the size of the building).

    Ensure that you are only responsible for the proportionate cost of the actual space that you are leasing... so if you lease two floors of a four story building, you will not be responsible for more than half of any maintenance costs.

    Consider electricity/gas/water meters, and check to see if your portion of the premises has its own, if not either demand that it does, or ensure you are happy with the billing arrangements.

    Whatever you do make sure all agreements are included in the contract, or as an appendix, and signed by then landlord. If it’s not in writing you will struggle to prove the agreement.

    Remember that all contracts are negotiable, if you don’t ask you won’t get. Good luck J
     
    Posted: Sep 1, 2008 By: who_me Member since: Aug 19, 2008
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  16. who_me

    who_me UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    358 58

    because you can.... :cool:
     
    Posted: Sep 1, 2008 By: who_me Member since: Aug 19, 2008
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  17. maria102

    maria102 UKBF Newcomer Free Member

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    The lease is for the whole building.....so the utilities are all going to be mine, same for repairs. I have hired a solicitor that has gone through it with me, though he says its my judgement on whether to sign today or not.
     
    Posted: Sep 1, 2008 By: maria102 Member since: Oct 25, 2005
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  18. who_me

    who_me UKBF Newcomer Free Member

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    Sorry not reading your thread properly, just tell them "I have thought about your revised offer, but it's not good enough, these are what I need...." if they say no walk away.
     
    Posted: Sep 1, 2008 By: who_me Member since: Aug 19, 2008
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  19. maria102

    maria102 UKBF Newcomer Free Member

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    Sorry to sound stupid, but how? "errh, I know you have now said no to one months rent free, but now I want three months rent free"???
     
    Posted: Sep 1, 2008 By: maria102 Member since: Oct 25, 2005
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  20. who_me

    who_me UKBF Newcomer Free Member

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    It is ultimately up to you.... it'd just negotiation... if you can afford to walk away then walk, tell them if they change their mind give you a call, and look else where, if they think you're off they are likely to call you, if it been empty for so long....
     
    Posted: Sep 1, 2008 By: who_me Member since: Aug 19, 2008
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