Ebay have killed my business

[paulears]

I’m getting on, and am thinking it’s maybe time to retire as my main income stream has dried up and other avenues have never worked as well.

I sell marine radios. The things boat owners fit to call for help when the hit icebergs, or more commonly when they cannot remember where they intended to actually travel to.

Ebay sales built over the years and were really quite good. Suddenly EBay’s AI system starts flagging items for policy violation, which their automatic complaint system rejects when you click the link, because it too is AI. Speaking to a human results in them telling you the item does not break policy, but now, I get restricted, and have a few days, now a week each time with no sales. A few days of normal sales, then bang, yet another flagged item. If I am luck I get a few sales between restrictions and restrictions times are going up. Their staff direct me to trust and security and then even what they call leadership. Items come and go in the listing sections randomly and there is nothing I can do. Thousands of pounds of stock and no ebay sales. My website shifts a few but ebay used to be ten times the quantity. I have tried Facebook marketplace and put some money into promotion there but it is too niche for normal people. Ebay have a lot of boating folk. I’ve tried quite a few marine real publications and organisations, but sales that way are very low.

Ebay used to work, but the AI system seems to have learned technical info from the USA, so I get told the item is not FCC compliant. It is OFCOM compliant as we are not in the US. One restriction was because the items transmit. They are in eBay’s aviation and marine section. Everybody’s equipment transmits!

I’m seriously thinking retirement is on the cards. I don’t want to, but costs are now more than sales bring in. Projections suggest January will be decision time if things don’t change.

I’m happy to follow up any suggestions. Ebay seem clueless and apologetic, but it is just repeating. I’ve tried editing the listings that remove the more chatty stuff that has always worked. Maybe I will just change the text into some images people can see and make the text very short and not mention safety, communications and let images be the feature. Marine Radio, 12 month warranty, free postage, price. It cannot be be a policy violation AI would object to?

 

[Shopclicks]

Some people will tell you to use as many sales channels as you can handle (Physical store, website, Amazon, eBay, etc.). The natural progression used to be to build a customer base on other platforms and then switch to your own website (using the fees you were paying to fund your own advertising). If you can't sell through eBay, I wouldn't waste time on the platform.

Optimise your website for traffic and conversions and use all of the available advertising mediums to drive traffic.

These might include:
Boating magazines
Social Media
Boating Forums
YouTube channel

 

[fisicx]

Mate owns a boat and I asked how they source kit. Answer was: almost entirely though chandlers and their websites.

Are you listed on everyone else’s websites?

 

[DontAsk]

There must be no end of boating forums. Some may allow advertising if you are a member.

 

[paulears]

Thanks for the advice - my local chandlers is somewhat old fashioned, and the locals of course know me as my office is quite close to the harbour - The boating forums haven't been very responsive, and ebay does much better than my own website. I'm setting up a shopify site to experiment. At 9.30, ebay liften my restriction and I relisted the problem radio from last week that was determined to be fully compliant. AT 10.00 they removed it again - same issue.

 

[Shopclicks]

I'm setting up a shopify site to experiment.

What platform is your current site built on?

 

[antropy]

Ebay have killed my business

Well, don't build your business on top of another business that can cut you off in a second and not care one bit.

I notice you're now looking at Shopify which is exactly the same thing

Paul.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

One thing I always check first is Amazon to get a price range, you can hate Amazon but it does get results for many items Plus next day delivery

 

[paulears]

Well - I got to speak to a fella who genuinely seemed to understand and was quite honest - the removed listings have been put back. Previously, this had not been done and was left for me to do - but the products are live again.

I'll give the shopify platform a go and see if in the 30 days, it generates anything? I understand it's like ebay of course, but two possibilities might be better than none. The snag with amazon is that I don't quite understand how their system works - clearly I can't use their fulfillment service due to lots of different models and the high individual cost of the stock - I can't buy specific stock and have it in their warehouse. Not sure about their direct system where I supply it? No experience with sales on amazon.

 

[paulears]

What platform is your current site built on?

Muse - but that is scheduled for a swap to something else.

 

[Ozzy]

@paulears I seem to recall I a thread similar to this some while ago, someone else (or maybe it was you) have the same issue with eBay's AI.
One idea that came up in that thread was carefully curating the listing to try to work around the AI triggers, so using a comment above perhaps list as 'UK products OFCOM compliant, and not required for FCC compliant as not sold in the US' sort of thing that includes the trigger terms AI may be looking for.
Or just tick the box (if there is one) that says FCC compliant? assuming not relevant as you not sending to US so wont be something that can bite you?

 

[Shopclicks]

Muse - but that is scheduled for a swap to something else.

A move to Shopify is just more of the same. You need an Open Source platform like Wordpress/Woocommerce to see any sort SEO and sales improvement. Add other advertising mediums and you'll have the ideal set-up.

 

[DontAsk]

Can you use an image with the descriptive text in it or is ebays AI too clever for that?

 

[DontAsk]

One thing I always check first is Amazon to get a price range,

I do that and then often go elsewhere unless I really want it in a hurry and no one else can match Prime delivery time.

Having said that, I've had two Amazon Prime orders recently that failed to deliver next day as promised. I've also had one (non-prime) business order flagged as returned by Amazon but security camera footage shows that there was no delivery attempt (I understand they may mark items as returned if they cannot be delivered for some reason). They refunded me but then delivered it a couple of days later. There's no way to request a return as Amazon think it's already been returned so I'll take it as compensation for the missed deliveries.

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

I'll give the shopify platform a go and see if in the 30 days, it generates anything? I understand it's like ebay

It's not.

It is a hosted shop that you have to do all the marketing on to get clients/buyers!

Shopify does no marketing or promotion, like Ebay & Amazon do.

 

[paulears]

Paul - thanks for the info. I'll see what if anything happens - I will see how some parallel marketing with my original website actually works - if the shopify one gets picked up better than mine. If not, I will dump it. Thanks

 

[paulears]

@paulears I seem to recall I a thread similar to this some while ago, someone else (or maybe it was you) have the same issue with eBay's AI.
One idea that came up in that thread was carefully curating the listing to try to work around the AI triggers, so using a comment above perhaps list as 'UK products OFCOM compliant, and not required for FCC compliant as not sold in the US' sort of thing that includes the trigger terms AI may be looking for.
Or just tick the box (if there is one) that says FCC compliant? assuming not relevant as you not sending to US so wont be something that can bite you?

Thanks Ozzy - I even tried nicking the standard text and images (mine are unique) from a competitors site and that was the 30 minute removal. The fella I spoke to at ebay did seem to understand the issue and this time, they have restored all 4 items recently removed - I did not have to do it? He admitted the AI seems to struggle in this category and they are aware, but the usual appeals process is also done with AI.

 

[Ozzy]

The fella I spoke to at ebay did seem to understand the issue and this time

Did you get a direct email address, and his direct line number, personal mobile number, and add him on WhatsApp for future needs

 

[Shopclicks]

I will see how some parallel marketing with my original website actually works - if the shopify one gets picked up better than mine. If not, I will dump it.

Why would you think a Shopify site would do any better than your current site? Neither are capable of optimisation. It's just more of the same and a waste of your time.

 

[fisicx]

Paul - thanks for the info. I'll see what if anything happens - I will see how some parallel marketing with my original website actually works - if the shopify one gets picked up better than mine. If not, I will dump it. Thanks

Shopify is no better than muse. Ranking comes from your content, categorisation, trustmarks, internal navigation, authority, responsiveness and page structures. The platform you use is almost irrelevant.

Don’t pay shopify when there are cheaper options over which you retain control.

 

[TCH]

My website shifts a few but ebay used to be ten times the quantity.

your customers like 'click & collect', I think

if that is right then Amazon will do well for you

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

The Ai product description in the Ebay auto section just writes absolute rubbish about the vehicle now .
It will tell you what the vehicle is useful for ie carrying a large load and supporting a business! We already knew that!

I can only imagine that @paulears products would be completely inaccuratly described due to its complicated nature

 

[fisicx]

However….

It depends on what you are selling. The description for the morris minor thermostat housing wasn’t written by AI.

 

[WaveJumper]

As the name probably suggests I could well be the user of marine radios. Personally I think Ebay has lost the plot over the last few years I never buy anything off there anymore, the go to is always Amazon. For more specialised marine products its either a visit to the chandlers actual physical shop or if I know exactly what is needed their website. Although i always check Amazon first to see if something is available at a better price.

On a wider issue the boating market is currently dead. Lots of reasons for this but of course disposable income has a lot to do with this, new boaters are not coming to the market, the second hand market has collapsed, and the new boat market is no better, just look at what has happened in the US. The costs of owning a boat have spiralled out of control.

It's going to take years to recover.

 

[paulears]

Yes - I seem to have customers in clusters - word spreads person to person. On the shopify front - I'm inundated with requests for percentages if they increase sale, quotes for unspecified products and even just random letters - the shopify website just seems to attract people on the make, and scammers - many use names that scream scammer and others clearly are bots. What a total pain.
Ebay still producing no sales at all. Retirement sounds quite attractive!

 

[Shopclicks]

Good to hear you caught the Shopify s***show early. It's a trap for the unwary.

It didn't seem like you wanted to retire with your first post. I'd keep up the fight with a decent website and targeted advertising.

 

[ZipserSir]

Hi, many many years ago I used to work in marine radio, but I was not an expert. More recently I worked in online marketing and sales (and would not consider myself an expert in that either), but I thought I'd do some test searches on google and was surprised to find that the leading online sellers are neither ebay or Amazon, but actually independent (I guess) sellers. Also, some traditional boating magazines. This might suggest that there is a worthwhile (non-commission) route to market, and your best path might be to beef up your own website and be prepared to invest in some seo and ppc. What is your website address?

 

[paulears]

This morning the listings were live but not visible. In the phone they did something and they appeared. They suggested I swapped the titles around to have marine vhf radio as the first words. I edited the listings and three got removed in thirty minutes

 

[fisicx]

@paulears - are they your radios or are you a reseller?

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Just a wild guess have you tried Marine VHF Handsets and miss out the word radio

 

[paulears]

Ebay apologised for telling me to do the change and are clueless why three previously OK radios are now delisted - 72 hours to wait.
All brand new stock from three or four manufacturers - purchased direct from the manufacturers and a few via a UK trade only distributor, which gives me access to a couple of makes I cannot buy direct.

I've now had over 50 shopify requests for percentages for promoting stock from very odd people.

 

[NelaKo]

On a wider issue the boating market is currently dead. Lots of reasons for this but of course disposable income has a lot to do with this

For a niche product like marine radios, eBay was probably doing a lot of the hard work by putting you in front of people who already knew what they wanted, so I’d probably stop trying to second guess the AI too much. Removing words like safety and communication from a marine radio listing feels backwards. Those are the reasons people buy them, so If it was me, I’d put more effort into making the website feel like the place to go for marine radios rather than just a shop. A lot of buyers won’t know exactly what model they need, and your experience is something Amazon can’t really replace. The annoying thing is you’ve built up a reputation and stock over years, and now you’re basically having to rebuild the customer route to you because of someone else’s algorithm.

 

[Gecko001]

I sold something on Ebay for the first time in 10 years. It actually was a boating item (self-flusher from an old dinghy). I was really surprised about how many changes to the way things are sold. I was selling as a private seller, and I got the impression that all the changes were geared to compete with sites who specialise in private sellers, such as Vinted.

 

[DoolallyTap]

I'll give the Shopify platform a go and see if in the 30 days, it generates anything? This will not work unless you have a Google Merchant account and Google Ads account or something similar, Shopify is a website and without any advertising no one will find it. 30 days is nowhere near enough to get any results.
I wonder why eBay keep giving you this problem? There must be a reason.

 

[paulears]

I'm now up to over 250 unwanted messages, so it's not very positive. I have done the same promotion on the shopify system as my own web site. If it outperforms my own in house system, i might stay with it, but the amount of rubbish it is generating is intense. In addition, my own site generates lots of questions from prospective buyers - ebay normally does the same, but so far, no pre-sale questions.

Ironically ebay have invited me to a policy session where they can help me with preventing policy problems - as if it's my end? The guy in the unit next door sells clothing on ebay. I told hom my story and he has the same - but his is accusations of counterfeit products when he has all the correct documentation to show he buys from approved suppliers. His items get removed, he gets the OK, puts them back and they get removed again. Seems the same AI problem.

 

[fisicx]

It’s not just eBay. Google Business Profiles is suffering the same if not worse issues.

 

[AmazonGeek]

Not sure what price range you are in but Icom are selling about 200 units per month on Amazon UK at the moment at £157 each. Not that much competition and no one has more than a handful of reviews so it could be a viable option depending your COGS, retail price, etc
I used to sell on eBay (and still do) but as Amazon took off, eBay sank like a brick for a lot of products and for me it only accounts for about 5% of sales.

 

[Paul Norman]

When I still had a flourishing clothing business I used to use Ebay to move on obsolete stock, and to be fair, it shifted quickly there, which was good for cashflow, and good for clearing the stockroom!

Now, it pretty much stops me from listing any branded stuff. I am sure, if I spent hours relearning it, there would be a way around.

But I don't use it any more. I stopped over a year ago. Because my main buisness is going rather well these days I will let that all stop.

Marine radios is much more specific, I suspect, but I reckon Ebay is on its way out.

 

[paulears]

I've done all kinds of research now - and have come up with a few interesting trends in marine electronics. There's a small market for replacements - and this seems to be split between professional fishermen who want simple swapping of not working for working kit. It even helps if mounting brackets can be reused, dimensionally. These are word of mouth (which come to me as in a bang on the door or a phone call, or they go to one of three very big sources - think main dealers in the car trade. Even next day delivery is probably not quick enough, and I get the local people. Ebay seems to score with the leisure boaters because that's also where they are sourcing antennas, cables, plugs sockets and hardware for their boats, and it seems radios.

The situation with ebay has not really improved, but the system for dealing with it has. I get a listing removed now, but the account restriction does not seem to be invoked? The process is to phone them. report the removal, they look in the records and see now, over 20 removals, and reinstatements. 3 days later the item is reinstated. Often, reinstatement seems to generate another removal of a different product, and in that case, another phone calls starts the process again.
Record so far is 9.30 reinstatement and 10.00 removal of the reinstated item. Reinstated again the next day. Every removal has been put back by a human. So it is getting better.

Shopify I have scrapped because I cannot cope with the emails offering me promotions for percentages. The spam folder I was saving them in got deleted as soon as it had 1000 mails in it. Averaging at a guess 40 a day. Some worded very well, some in languages I don't recognise and others blunt to the point of rudeness. The most common simple questions like "do you supply to the UK?"

Ebay sales in total, across all models are nearly back to normal, as the biggest sellers seem to be left alone at the moment. Just a huge two month loss.

I note on Amazon one supplier with a slightly different version of the title

Icom Unisex M330GE Vhf Transceiver with Gps Receiver, Black​

Unisex? Really?

 

[eteb3]

Unisex? Really?

I guess because it both emits and receives?