Local Restrictions? What a Joke..

[OMGVape]

You really couldn't make this stuff up....

Who on earth thought that opening pubs wouldn't cause an increase in infections?

Who's idea was it to put Lancashire in lockdown, but leave Blackpool out of it?
can anyone guess where the youth will be heading to party ? Blackpool is going to be overrun.

To Government yesterday....

Are you considering a national lockdown ? No no no no no!

Today.... Yes

 

[Paul Norman]

It does seem chaotic. We now have local lockdown stuff here in the North East, but in reality nothing at all that is difficult, nor anything that will restrict the spread to any significant extent.

There is a clamour for full national lockdown, and a seemingly unstoppable move in that direction. Of course, it will be economically disastrous. But we seem to be taken up with the 'lives before the economy' chant without realising a bankrupt nation will see more deaths. Lost more.

I don't know the answer, of course, other that it does appear that both infection numbers and hospital admissions are starting to rise in the UK. And in a number of other places, too.

 

[Punk19]

the Gov do really just need to simply things. I mean if there was a map of the whole country split into colors green amber and red and like 3 rules in each, 1. go to work / work from home 2. mix with other households / no mix and 3. safe to carry on with social distancing it would be easy and probably work.

 

[Mr D]

It does seem chaotic. We now have local lockdown stuff here in the North East, but in reality nothing at all that is difficult, nor anything that will restrict the spread to any significant extent.

There is a clamour for full national lockdown, and a seemingly unstoppable move in that direction. Of course, it will be economically disastrous. But we seem to be taken up with the 'lives before the economy' chant without realising a bankrupt nation will see more deaths. Lost more.

I don't know the answer, of course, other that it does appear that both infection numbers and hospital admissions are starting to rise in the UK. And in a number of other places, too.

We know with lockdown we can reduce infection spread.

We also know that methods we were using at start of the month are not restricting the spread enough.

So something needs doing if the infection / hospitalisation rates need to come down.
What that something is ....

We know what has worked. We have other options that may or may not work.

 

[Mr D]

the Gov do really just need to simply things. I mean if there was a map of the whole country split into colors green amber and red and like 3 rules in each, 1. go to work / work from home 2. mix with other households / no mix and 3. safe to carry on with social distancing it would be easy and probably work.

You mean like we had already?

Not working very well. Probably not helped by social gatherings / parties / pubs wanting to make a load of money / raves / protests.

 

[Alison Moore]

Trouble is if the don't allow the pubs to reopen, then the pubs expect the government to keep on extending furlough and handouts to keep the industry afloat. We need to get the economy running again, and that means all sectors re-opening including pubs, but so many people are being reckless and carrying on as if there is no virus.

 

[Interestedobserver]

I watched the news about Newcastle yesterday. People who live there complaining that it's the pubs fault because when you look inside them there is zero social distancing happening

We are ruining any chance to make our own choices

 

[OMGVape]

I get the feeling the government are making a half-arsed effort to keep infections as low as possible while they/we wait for a vaccine.

If they do have another national lockdown then all business rates, rents, loans, mortgages should be frozen at the same time.

 

[Mr D]

I get the feeling the government are making a half-arsed effort to keep infections as low as possible while they/we wait for a vaccine.

If they do have another national lockdown then all business rates, rents, loans, mortgages should be frozen at the same time.

Yes, what does any business's income, any pension fund, any people relying on share income, on banks making money etc matter?

Already a big mess, adding more mess just means more years to correct the problems.

Plenty of businesses aren't going to be paying profit based taxes for years at this rate.

 

[thetiger2015]

Yes, what does any business's income, any pension fund, any people relying on share income, on banks making money etc matter?

...but they could cease to exist completely if the government cut them off shortly after another lock down. The banks/shareholders won't get anything if the doors are permanently closed.

This does seem to be linked to the government opening pubs and pushing the help out scheme. Thousands took advantage on both of those and now look what's happened.

 

[Mr D]

...but they could cease to exist completely if the government cut them off shortly after another lock down. The banks/shareholders won't get anything if the doors are permanently closed.

This does seem to be linked to the government opening pubs and pushing the help out scheme. Thousands took advantage on both of those and now look what's happened.

No need for them to cease to exist if government interference is less than you suggest.

Landlord businesses get their income from what? They'll have expenses presumably but zero income under your idea.
Government going to make up the rent / mortgage / rates payments?

 

[ecommerce84]

I think a couple of weeks national lockdown would be a better bet than all these little local lockdowns.

But there is no real justification for a lockdown longer than that.

 

[MBE2017]

I think a couple of weeks national lockdown would be a better bet than all these little local lockdowns.

But there is no real justification for a lockdown longer than that.

Is there justification for any lockdown?

Currently 2020 death figures overall are below the 5 year average.

So the country is on partial lockdown, yet we are recording lower overall deaths?

 

[Mr D]

Is there justification for any lockdown?

Currently 2020 death figures overall are below the 5 year average.

So the country is on partial lockdown, yet we are recording lower overall deaths?

Yes there was a justification for the march lockdown. It made a difference to the infection numbers, the hospitalisation and the deaths.
The virus was spreading rapidly and the British were too stupid to stop it. So government imposed lockdown. And it worked.

Another lockdown now may work - the situation is not quite the same. However one point of data that appears to stand out is that the lockdown made the big difference when it was in place. Take it away as started to happen in the spring and early summer ......
And we get to now.

Impose a lockdown and it works? Great. Except it would be needed for what? 12 months? Maybe 8 months?
Whatever time to get a decent vaccine, get it produced and get people to have it.
Could be longer than a year.

Vastly impacting the economy.

So a 2 week lockdown may be a nice idea by someone. But may be only temporary solution to the infection spread.
So is it worth the cost at all?

 

[simon field]

Why do you think there will be a vaccine?

is it because they’re trying really hard?

 

[Mr D]

Why do you think there will be a vaccine?

is it because they’re trying really hard?

For the same reason I think there will be a human. And there will be a dog. And there will be a cat.

Because such things already exist.
You know, people working in companies have made vaccines. Quite a number of them.
The news media have reported such matters.

A number of vaccines are going through testing. The British one, often referred to as the Oxford vaccine, is in a trial with 30,000 people at the moment.
So yes I think there will be a vaccine. There will also be an internet and there will also be a computer.
Reality, it's so annoying to you eh?

Whether the vaccine is sufficiently effective, whether it needs to be redone each year (like flu vaccine does) or whether simply a booster every once in a while is more open to question, depending on which vaccine eventually is distributed here.
If one turns out to have problems maybe one of the others does not have those same problems.

Perhaps none of the vaccines will prove effective. In which case we keep struggling every year with this virus for eternity or until a vaccine is produced that is effective.

 

[simon field]

For the same reason I think there will be a human. And there will be a dog. And there will be a cat.

Because such things already exist.
You know, people working in companies have made vaccines. Quite a number of them.
The news media have reported such matters.

A number of vaccines are going through testing. The British one, often referred to as the Oxford vaccine, is in a trial with 30,000 people at the moment.
So yes I think there will be a vaccine. There will also be an internet and there will also be a computer.
Reality, it's so annoying to you eh?

Whether the vaccine is sufficiently effective, whether it needs to be redone each year (like flu vaccine does) or whether simply a booster every once in a while is more open to question, depending on which vaccine eventually is distributed here.
If one turns out to have problems maybe one of the others does not have those same problems.

Perhaps none of the vaccines will prove effective. In which case we keep struggling every year with this virus for eternity or until a vaccine is produced that is effective.

Well, sincerely, good luck with that blind faith.

 

[Mr D]

Well, sincerely, good luck with that blind faith.

No faith involved. Vaccines exist regardless of your faith or lack of faith.

 

[simon field]

No faith involved. Vaccines exist regardless of your faith or lack of faith.

FFS. Ok, I admit - a vaccine is already in existence for this. Have you ordered one yet?

 

[MBE2017]

Yes there was a justification for the march lockdown. It made a difference to the infection numbers.......

Another lockdown now may work - the situation is not quite the same. However one point of data that appears to stand out is that the lockdown made the big difference when it was in place.

You assume the figures being quoted to you are correct.

The total number of total deaths in the UK population, even allowing for covid, is lower in 2020 than the 5 year average. Let that sink in for a second. I am not denying covid exists, but most of the deaths attributed to covid are incorrect IMO.

Nearly every death certificate has covid put as the reason for death, even with no examination, visit or autopsy. Doctors are encouraged to put covid on everything. As can be seen by the overall figure, most of those deaths will be down to other long term conditions.

So why the rush to attribute a huge figure to covid? More importantly why is there so few people wanting accurate figures on how many are truly dying from covid? One report put the potential UK true figure around 400. How close is that? No idea, no one knows for sure.

Which leads to the really big question, how many deaths are acceptable from covid? IF the true figure was relatively low, say 500/1000, is that number worth shutting the economy down over, losing many of our freedoms won over hundreds of years? Will enforced vaccinations be the next step? Many in the NHS are talking of losing their job, because they fear they will not be allowed to continue working unless they take the vaccine when it comes out, rushed out and probably under tested. So our NHS staff amongst others could become modern day guinea pigs.

Sounds far fetched? Who right now can easily afford to walk away from a well paid job and a decent pension?

 

[Darren_Ssc]

I think a couple of weeks national lockdown would be a better bet than all these little local lockdowns.

But there is no real justification for a lockdown longer than that.

Infection rates are virtually non-existent where I live and work, not sure me being locked-down is going to be much help to the people living and working 300 miles away?

 

[Ian J]

<snip>

I don't know the answer, of course,

Neither does anyone else on here but it doesn't stop them starting threads to criticize others

 

[Ian J]

I watched the news about Newcastle yesterday. People who live there complaining that it's the pubs fault because when you look inside them there is zero social distancing happening

I have noticed that when the BBC do their vox pop interviews they are highly selective about who they pick on tending to air comments from the stupidest people they could find or those whose opinions co-incide with their own left wing views

 

[Interestedobserver]

I have noticed that when the BBC do their vox pop interviews they are highly selective about who they pick on tending to air comments from the stupidest people they could find or those whose opinions co-incide with their own left wing views

Sadly the UK has more than its fair share of stupid people though don't we?

 

[Darren_Ssc]

Sadly the UK has more than its fair share of stupid people though don't we?

If you watch the BBC then no evidence to the contrary will be presented, apart from various correspondents who are always willing to share their expertise/opinion.

 

[Mr D]

You assume the figures being quoted to you are correct.

The total number of total deaths in the UK population, even allowing for covid, is lower in 2020 than the 5 year average. Let that sink in for a second. I am not denying covid exists, but most of the deaths attributed to covid are incorrect IMO.

Nearly every death certificate has covid put as the reason for death, even with no examination, visit or autopsy. Doctors are encouraged to put covid on everything. As can be seen by the overall figure, most of those deaths will be down to other long term conditions.

So why the rush to attribute a huge figure to covid? More importantly why is there so few people wanting accurate figures on how many are truly dying from covid? One report put the potential UK true figure around 400. How close is that? No idea, no one knows for sure.

Which leads to the really big question, how many deaths are acceptable from covid? IF the true figure was relatively low, say 500/1000, is that number worth shutting the economy down over, losing many of our freedoms won over hundreds of years? Will enforced vaccinations be the next step? Many in the NHS are talking of losing their job, because they fear they will not be allowed to continue working unless they take the vaccine when it comes out, rushed out and probably under tested. So our NHS staff amongst others could become modern day guinea pigs.

Sounds far fetched? Who right now can easily afford to walk away from a well paid job and a decent pension?

I do not have figures showing that infection hospitalisation and deaths increased in the population as a result of the lockdown so the official figures are what I am using.
Find different figures then by all means use them.

However without medical examination can other figures be found?

Enforced vaccination in a dangerous job in order to keep the job? I am sure they could always get a retail job instead. Oh wait that deals with customers so somewhat dangerous. A surgeon could get a job fitting kitchens perhaps?
Just thinking, what other required vaccination happens.
Something not involving dealing with customers.


We know the vaccines will be under tested. Cut years off the rollout - shave off safety, shave off effectiveness tests, shave off dosage tests.....
Would we want the current measures to last 10 to 15 years instead?

 

[Mr D]

If you watch the BBC then no evidence to the contrary will be presented, apart from various correspondents who are always willing to share their expertise/opinion.

Am guessing you are not a BBC customer.

Of course they cater to their customers. Like other businesses.
Be pretty bad if they catered to the people who are not going to watch / listen anyway instead.

You get fed a mouthful of pap by the media. They want to tell you a story.
If the story is true then even better but not required if they can write a better narrative.

Read the various news sites and dig into the stories. Sometimes you will find a non story - a dog bites man story.
Presented as bad.

Often you can find facts missed out of one but included in another. Different story from the same event.

 

[Bob Morgan]

Am guessing you are not a BBC customer.

Of course they cater to their customers. Like other businesses.
Be pretty bad if they catered to the people who are not going to watch / listen anyway instead.

You get fed a mouthful of pap by the media. They want to tell you a story.
If the story is true then even better but not required if they can write a better narrative.

Read the various news sites and dig into the stories. Sometimes you will find a non story - a dog bites man story.
Presented as bad.

Often you can find facts missed out of one but included in another. Different story from the same event.

"30,000 Pigs found in river!" - It was actually 30 Sows and Pigs!

 

[John Hemming]

Given that the situation is not the same across the country it is sensible to have policies that vary depending on the situation. Whether those policies are any good is another issue.

On Wednesday the number of hospital admissions went down compared to Tuesday across England and importantly went down in the North East and North West (which are the two NHS regions that appear to have the biggest issues).

We will find out during the next week or so whether this is a false summit or the start of a plateauing of hospital admissions. My guess is that outside the North we have a plateau and we may have a plateau coming up in the North.

 

[Mr D]

"30,000 Pigs found in river!" - It was actually 30 Sows and Pigs!

Yes, the difference between the title and the story can be amusing too.

Not very well up on pigs or rivers - presumably the two aren't commonly together? Pigs presumably don't live in rivers?

 

[Forgot password]

With the amount of evidence now available that the virus is not anywhere near as dangerous as first thought,if they proceed with this second lockdown aided by the military then we can all safely assume that there’s another agenda in play here. 99.97% survival rate.

Anyone disagree with that? If so what would you say it’s all about then?

 

[ecommerce84]

Infection rates are virtually non-existent where I live and work, not sure me being locked-down is going to be much help to the people living and working 300 miles away?

Very good point.

I’ve just looked up our district - we’ve had 14 cases since the beginning of September, out of a population of 95,000. It’s largely rural with 3 towns and a few large villages.

So yes I agree, we definitely don’t need another national lockdown, and I definitely cannot see the justification for one.

 

[Mr D]

With the amount of evidence now available that the virus is not anywhere near as dangerous as first thought,if they proceed with this second lockdown aided by the military then we can all safely assume that there’s another agenda in play here. 99.97% survival rate.

Anyone disagree with that? If so what would you say it’s all about then?

Case fatality rate is what?

Not 99.97% survival rate. For one thing you don't know what percentage of the UK population has had the virus yet,

So we have these figures.
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/?_ga=2.3170160.1357265433.1600526126-2134587406.1577476021

Tested positive :

385,936

Dead

41,732

Thats 10.8% dead.

Rather different figures than yours.

Or lets try another country.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

USA

Total cases 6,932,274

Total deaths 203,274

Thats 2.93%


France

Total cases 428,696

Total deaths 31,249

Thats 7.28%

Very different figures than you.


Hey, perhaps you should look at all diseases and viruses as a percentage of total population instead.
That way even something incredibly lethal like ebola really works out as a tiny tiny percentage.

Whereas in real life if you get it ..... your chances are different.

 

[Mr D]

Very good point.

I’ve just looked up our district - we’ve had 14 cases since the beginning of September, out of a population of 95,000. It’s largely rural with 3 towns and a few large villages.

So yes I agree, we definitely don’t need another national lockdown, and I definitely cannot see the justification for one.

In your area, no.
In other areas - quite likely.

So whether locking down particular towns, villages and regions - which has been tried partly and appears to have not stopped the increase very well - or they go back to one thing they know worked.

But how long should a lockdown be imposed? Its a pause button not a stop.

 

[Interestedobserver]

With the amount of evidence now available that the virus is not anywhere near as dangerous as first thought,if they proceed with this second lockdown aided by the military then we can all safely assume that there’s another agenda in play here. 99.97% survival rate.

Anyone disagree with that? If so what would you say it’s all about then?

The more cases we have the more hospitalizations needed for people to survive and it's 9 days plus on average in a hospital bed to hopefully survive. Many in hospital far longer than that.

We have limited hospital beds and limited ventilators etc to help keep death rates down.

Many people coming out of hospital having "recovered" from the disease are facing life debilitating ongoing issues

Basically as the get more waves of the virus we will run out of hospital beds treating victims and the health service would fail to cope

Victims of the illness would not be able to be treated to be able to recover

As more people know people who either die or face long Covid symptoms and as more people know Covid is rife in the outside world people will be even less willing to go out and socialise than when under the various relaxed lockdowns

The more disease in the UK the more fear of mixing

I've seen it already the last couple of days out and about. People starting to take extra measures because they know it's coming back in numbers

Stuff like that James off the top of my head

 

[Forgot password]

The more cases we have the more hospitalizations needed for people to survive and it's 9 days plus on average in a hospital bed to hopefully survive. Many in hospital far longer than that.

We have limited hospital beds and limited ventilators etc to help keep death rates down.

Many people coming out of hospital having "recovered" from the disease are facing life debilitating ongoing issues

Basically as the get more waves of the virus we will run out of hospital beds treating victims and the health service would fail to cope

Victims of the illness would not be able to be treated to be able to recover

As more people know people who either die or face long Covid symptoms and as more people know Covid is rife in the outside world people will be even less willing to go out and socialise than when under the various relaxed lockdowns

The more disease in the UK the more fear of mixing

I've seen it already the last couple of days out and about. People starting to take extra measures because they know it's coming back in numbers

Stuff like that James off the top of my head

Do you agree with what’s happening in Victoria Australia? Would that be your policy?

 

[Forgot password]

Tobias Elwood MP to the prime minister...

My request to the PM for greater use of our military in tackling this pandemic.

They are trained in strategic thinking, crisis management, communicating the message and command & control.

They are an incredible asset. Let’s maximise their use.

Surely some of you must be by now starting to see this is not right?

Anyway i’m Outta here to watch the mighty Palace give Utd a footballing lesson.. have a nice weekend everyone and play nicely.

 

[MOIC]

mighty Palace give Utd a footballing lesson..

Nice win, well deserved!

 

[Mr D]

Tobias Elwood MP to the prime minister...

My request to the PM for greater use of our military in tackling this pandemic.

They are trained in strategic thinking, crisis management, communicating the message and command & control.

They are an incredible asset. Let’s maximise their use.

Surely some of you must be by now starting to see this is not right?

Anyway i’m Outta here to watch the mighty Palace give Utd a footballing lesson.. have a nice weekend everyone and play nicely.

They are trained in a narrow area of strategic thinking. They have a robust command and control system, which is not of much use in helping civilian control of the country. It is useful for dealing with gaps in the system due to incapacity or death. Which you appear to think cannot happen to civilians from this virus.

 

[Interestedobserver]

Given that the situation is not the same across the country it is sensible to have policies that vary depending on the situation. Whether those policies are any good is another issue.

On Wednesday the number of hospital admissions went down compared to Tuesday across England and importantly went down in the North East and North West (which are the two NHS regions that appear to have the biggest issues).

We will find out during the next week or so whether this is a false summit or the start of a plateauing of hospital admissions. My guess is that outside the North we have a plateau and we may have a plateau coming up in the North.

No chance we are at the plateau yet

We will be 10,000 cases plus within a month like Spain and France. And hospitals filling up like in those countries at well

We just follow them. As I keep saying it's all very predictable

Covid is nationwide again and out of control

Sadly