Paying for SEO, is it worth it?

[GOPANDA]

Hello, My name is Panda I am new to this site. I own a Removal company in Cardiff our main business is moving people from one home to another, we have been runnign for about 4 years and have always been busy enough.

I initially designed my own website but have since had a friend redesign it, I have also paid him a little bit for SEO I am however a little disappointed with the results. My homepage constantly ranks below other pages for my keywords. (About us and blog posts seem to rank higher).

Basically I feel paying a friend (who may not be fully capable) under the going rate is not working, I want to either, Pay a reputable company to help us climb the rankings or Learn about ti and do it myself.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks Panda

 

[Ally Maxwell]

No. End of.

 

[tony84]

There are 2 forms of SEO, on page and off page. Personally I think on page SEO is relatively easy and not overly time consuming. Off page is more time consuming however.

Its funny, when I speak to some friends they do not think I am a "real" mortgage broker. Sometimes having friends/family do it does make you think they are not professionals.

But I have always been a big believer in paying the right price and getting it done properly. So unless your mate is a professional and doing mate rates rather than cheap and "cheerful" for everyone, I would probably look at getting a pro in.

 

[ryedale]

Happy to have a quick look at the site for you if you like and see if the basics have been done. Sometimes simple adjustments can make a big difference.

[stub removed]

 

[Alan]

Website isn't difficult to find ( use the phone number in footer in Google).

Th eon page SEO is pretty amateur, why is "Go Panda Removals Cardiff" repeated at least 9 times? You need to just forget SEO for the moment and get copy written that works for your target customers.

As far as local SEO goes its not difficult to do.

If you want to do it yourself people recommend a course called Fresh Bananas on here - I can't vouch for it personally

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

Yes, but you have to pay enough to get the job done, otherwise you may as well pay nothing at all.

SEO is not particularly gradual in its ROI. Impressions and clicks drop dramatically after page one of the search engine results, so your site may move from page 100 to page 2, yet you'll notice barely any change in traffic.

Once you go in, you have to go all the way to make it worthwhile. That involves investing in the time and skills to reach page one for your keywords (preferably in the upper half where the highest CTRs are).

I do sympathise with search engine optimisers, because they can do the right thing and achieve strong technical results, but they're at the mercy of Google when it comes to those technical achievements obtaining better rankings. The algorithms are so complicated that it's impossible to say X number of backlinks will obtain Y rankings.

Plus, competitors are likely to be doing SEO of their own, so the goalposts are always moving.

You just have to keep going with good on-site and off-site SEO, and the results will appear when they appear - sometimes quite suddenly.

 

[UKSBD]

You need to sort out your robots.txt and redirects,
Google is seeing two versions of the homepage which are blocked so not following the redirect.
In effect, you have no homepage.

 

[webgeek]

There are 2 forms of SEO, on page and off page. Personally I think on page SEO is relatively easy and not overly time consuming. Off page is more time consuming however.

If on page SEO was easy, then everyone would rank #1 for their terms.

Understanding what goes into on page SEO is easy. Doing it well can get you in the top 20. Being the best can get you top 5.

I've known for years how to do on page SEO. I've put a ton of sites onto page 1.

Can any regular business owners who think SEO is easy beat me in a head to head competition? I doubt many can.

Can I beat Ray from Fresh Bananas at on-page, head to head? No.

On page SEO is a science that is easy to learn and extremely difficult to master. Don't kid yourself.

 

[Jayser100]

Paying for SEO is okay if you can find someone good to do it. As webgeek said, it is not as easy as some think. Employing the wrong person to do it would be a bit like using a local tennis champion instead of asking Andy Murray to play. You might win a few points but you won't win the match. There are hundreds of people / companies out there who make glorified claims about their SEO capabilities but in the end, many of them are useless.

We have just completely revamped our website and I am in the process of doing basic on-page optimisation (i.e. unique title tags, repeating keyword phrases in headers and main text etc.) but when that process is complete I will be looking into hiring an expert to fine-tune it because, frankly, I haven't the time to do it but it IS important.

Do your homework before hiring someone to make sure you get a person who comes highly recommended by people with identifiable results.

 

[fisicx]

As @Alan said, the onsite SEO is weak as is the whole user experience. There are loads of things that could be improved.

If you got someone who knows what they are doing to build the site and did Ray'sFresh Bananas SEO course you would be all set. And I can vouch for Ray's course - it's brilliant.

 

[Alan]

As far as local SEO goes its not difficult to do.

I'll just qualify this - it not difficult to do much better than your current site - and personally I'd start with your 'Google My Business ling which is at a woofull 14th or for for 'Cardiff Removal Company' which is what I would search for if I was in Cardiff looking for a removal company.

BUT I see your footer say "Give us a call for UK and EU Removals " if that is your aspiration, to be on the top of the SERPS UK & EU wide - then employ a professional and think many thousands of ££ effort.

Its all about what you want to achieve.

But I stand by your existing efforts ( of your friend ) are distinctly amateur.

Can any regular business owners who think SEO is easy beat me in a head to head competition? I doubt many can.

Perhaps we should change it into a sport - and have SEO offs ( I have been doing it for years but I don't think I'd do well I'd be one of those making up the field )

 

[webgeek]

Perhaps we should change it into a sport - and have SEO offs ( I have been doing it for years but I don't think I'd do well I'd be one of those making up the field )

Paint a target - then watch as the negative SEO peeps come out of the woodwork and open fire.

But that's a whole 'nother matter entirely - scary eggs.

 

[tony84]

If on page SEO was easy, then everyone would rank #1 for their terms.

Understanding what goes into on page SEO is easy. Doing it well can get you in the top 20. Being the best can get you top 5.

I've known for years how to do on page SEO. I've put a ton of sites onto page 1.

Can any regular business owners who think SEO is easy beat me in a head to head competition? I doubt many can.

Can I beat Ray from Fresh Bananas at on-page, head to head? No.

On page SEO is a science that is easy to learn and extremely difficult to master. Don't kid yourself.

Why would you pick up on part of my post?

I said there were 2 parts, I even named them.
I never said on page seo would get you to page 1, position one or even in the top 100 pages. What I did say is that part of the process is relatively easy to do.

I have managed to get 2 websites to page 1 with just on page SEO. I used to dabble in SEO/website design around a decade ago and I understand the basics.

Where did a competion come in and where am I kidding myself?
Could I fit a kitchen quicker than the local handyman? No. Could I do it? Yes.

The same can be said for any job against someone who does it for a living.

Your post reads like your getting a bit arsey over what I have said, but if you read it, I have said pay the right price for the right job.

 

[webgeek]

You said on page optimisation is easy. It ain't.

If you're trying to rank a site, in the real world, the measuring up your abilities, in comparison to what you'll likely face is a reality check.

Understating the ease of the job will make people try and fail and wonder what went wrong, when they weren't equipped to compete in the first place.

 

[Ava Williams]

Have you added your company to Google My Business and Facebook Business? This, in partnership with a good Home page Title and Description (Meta Data), has proven to be enough for me. Cost? FREE.

 

[tony84]

You said on page optimisation is easy. It ain't.

I think we will have to agree to disagree.

 

[Webzsuite.com]

It all depends, local SEO might be easy enough for you, to do it yourself, however it might not always be the case...

If you're looking for a good SEO company, then look online , don't pay your friend to do it as it can do more harm than good !

 

[ChrisRM]

Hello fellow Cardff-ian.

I am biased but SEO is a good marketing technique. It does not bring immediate results and it is a long term strategy. But it is one that, if done correctly, can provide a satisfactory return on the investment.

It is essentially getting your business in front of people that are actively looking for your service. In that respect it is worth paying for.

SEO is misunderstood and confused. There are lots of options because there is a low barrier of entry to offer the service. As with all things, you often get what you pay for. Spending £99 a month isn't going to do very much for you. Buying services of Fiverr aren't going to get you to #1 sustainably.

Furthermore, the results can't be guaranteed. The exact algorithm Google uses is not publically known. There is general consensus on major issues and there are hints dropped by Google but nothing is certain. The algorithms can change and cause problems if SEO hasn't been executed sustainably. Plus there are others doing SEO to get a good ranking.

Having said that, what can be guaranteed? I bet you can try your best to prevent damage to customers belongings but can't guarantee it.

If SEO is done well, it can provide continuous customer leads. I did a quick check with a SEO tool and it suggests that 'removals Cardiff' is searched 480 times a month on average. Getting in front of these is only going to be beneficial.

IMHO you have a decently designed website. But design is subjective. There could be some improvements to conversion of visitors.

But it isn't structured to rank highly. Appropriate keywords (in this instance, one is 'removals Cardiff') needs to be placed in certain places (e.g. H1, Title, in the content enough times). This tells Google what the page is about. At the moment, Google knows it is a bit about 'Removals Cardiff' but not as much as others (which are optimised by having they keywords in certain places). Your About Us page being your highest ranking page is an indicator something isn't right.

Then links from other websites to yours (and the optimised pages) needs to be built. This gives your website authority in Google's 'eyes'. At the moment, your website doesn't have many links pointing to it.

You seem to have some good reviews on Google My Business, Yelp and on Facebook. Congrats on delivering a good service to these customers. Your Google My Business doesn't seem to be set up correctly to target 'removals Cardiff' as your business doesn't appear, despite having enough good reviews.

I hope this was useful. [stub removed]

 

[UKSBD]

It's on the verge of being a very good site.
Sort the titles, robots and redirects and it should rank well.

It's the sort of site a lot of SEO's would love to get hold of.

A little bit of tweaking, it ranks well, makes them look good and they cash in.
Be careful, most of the work has been done, don't let someone grab all the credit.

 

[Jwan]

Have you added your company to Google My Business and Facebook Business? This, in partnership with a good Home page Title and Description (Meta Data), has proven to be enough for me. Cost? FREE.

Don't you have to be a brick and mortar to get on those? Am I right in thinking that if you're online business, then this doesn't apply?

 

[ChrisRM]

Don't you have to be a brick and mortar to get on those? Am I right in thinking that if you're online business, then this doesn't apply?

They are more applicable to brick and mortar businesses. But can apply to online businesses but depends what kind. If it is an ecommerce store then you could use the warehouse address. Or for a digital marketer could use their office location (be it home or elsewhere).

It is a Google product, so Google will like it being used. It will help give authority and trust in the website for the online business.

 

[Jwan]

What if it is an ecommerce store, but the "warehouse" is a extra room I have to the side of my house? I'm still super small

 

[UKSBD]

It will help give authority and trust in the website for the online business.

Oh, the irony!

 

[UKSBD]

What if it is an ecommerce store, but the "warehouse" is a extra room I have to the side of my house? I'm still super small

Your only supposed to set up a Local listing if you provided a face to face service or customers can just turn up during your marked office hours and find you open.

The main idea is that if someone is walking down the street, looks for something on their mobile, finds a local business on a map, sees that they are open and goes along, thet should expect to find them open.

It is predominantly a Maps product

Unfortunately, as you can see from the poster above, lots of people try and cheat the system and that ruins it for all.

 

[Alan]

Your only supposed to set up a Local listing if you provided a face to face service or customers can just turn up during your marked office hours and find you open.

No exactly true - Google Business listings allow for service businesses that do not provide service from a fixed location.

If you list a service area business and DONT service from your address - no exact map pin is listed

From https://support.google.com/business...visit_id=1-636197518596684470-2417102702&rd=1
"
Service-area businesses on Google
Not all local businesses serve their customers from a brick-and-mortar storefront. Some businesses operate from a home address. Others are mobile and don't have a storefront that customers visit.

If your business serves customers at their locations, you should list it as a service area business on Google.
"

and

From the edit screen

"I also serve customers at my business address. (Your address will be hidden from the public if this box isn't checked.)" - as appropriate

 

[UKSBD]

That is when it is face to face services not an ecommerce store selling to people not at their location.

The problem is people read parts of the guidelines and not all.
When a bit like that is read without reading the rest of the guidelines it can be read out of context.

 

[Alan]

The guidelines say "a business must make in-person contact with customers during its stated hours." and the excluded businesses does don't list e-commerce business. My interpretation of in person contact includes phone calls, so a e-commecrce business that has a human being available to answer their phones during business hours is making in-person contact.

Now maybe that not what Google intend, but they don't go out of their way to exclude or even clarifiy.

 

[UKSBD]

It's like quoting from a legal document.

Quoting one paragraph without quoting the whole section (or document even) can result in somebody believing the exact opposite of what it actually means.

The problem is, these paragraphs get posted about everywhere online which creates the confusion.

 

[UKSBD]

My interpretation of in person contact includes phone calls, so a e-commecrce business that has a human being available to answer their phones during business hours is making in-person contact.

Now maybe that not what Google intend, but they don't go out of their way to exclude or even clarifiy.

That's a bit like saying, you climbed over the fence and ran across the lawn because it didn't have a "keep off the lawn" sign

Read the complete guidelines properly and it is pretty obvious what Google Local listings are intented for.
The problem is, people go and try and find a snippet from them that supports how they want to use it.

 

[Alan]

I did post a link to the guidelines

When I had an e-commerce business I did have a Google Business listing, I had no problem meeting people face to face by appointment (which was made clear in the listing) if they wanted pick something up from my home ( which was my business address ).

 

[Alan]

Read the complete guidelines properly

I have, and I can't find anything that indicates an e-commerce business that is happy to service customers 'in-person' should be excluded.

Excuse the excerpt - I assume this is what you refer to

"Brands, organisations, artists and other online-only businesses should create a brand page instead of a Google My Business listing."

Maybe because my business was hybrid ( i.e. contact in person was 'allowed' ) it was permitted

 

[UKSBD]

"Not all local businesses serve their customers from a brick-and-mortar storefront. Some businesses operate from a home address. Others are mobile and don't have a storefront that customers visit."

If your business serves customers at their locations, you should list it as a service area business on Google.

 

[Alan]

See my later edit above ... crossed in the timeline

 

[Alan]

If your business serves customers at their locations, you should list it as a service area business on Google.

Yes - that was what I was saying - but that is still a Google Business (map) listing.

 

[UKSBD]

Yes - that was what I was saying - but that is still a Google Business (map) listing.

Yes but they have to provide the service at the persons location..

Summary: Listings on Google My Business can only be created for businesses that either have a physical location that customers can visit, or that travel to visit customers where they are.

Unfortunately, because Google spread the guidelines about on various pages it is easy to read something out of context, the bit above should be the starting point, you then realise that the part you quoted should only apply to service providers that provide the service at somebody else's location.

It doesn't apply to an ecommerce store, a website designers who works from any non public open office, a clock repairer who repairs clocks in his bedroom, etc.

 

[Alan]

a website designers who works from any non public open office, a clock repairer who repairs clocks in his bedroom, etc.

In terms of the web designer - if he works from a non public office, but he visits his clients at their offices for meetings, then that is an SAB. But if they never visit their clients then they are online only.

A clock repairer who repairs clocks in his bedroom - I don't get, as he must physically get the cocks to repair, either people visit his home => is a home based business & eligible, or travels to his clients to get the clocks in which case is an SAB.

SABs travel to the customer, whether it be to the customer's location or a third party site. The third party site might be something prearranged, such as a piano teacher meeting students at a local church, but it is still a SAB due to the meeting place not being the actual place of business.

Most SABs are what is referred to as a SAB without a storefront.

SAB's addresses do not appear on Google Mapps but do appear in Google Maps search.

 

[James1974]

We have a number of websites and our main business website has been running now for over 12 years. A couple of years ago we employed an SEO specialist for nearly a year with no measurable results at the end of it.

To be honest I think the best approach is to optimise your website yourself for SEO and then to use the money you would have invested in SEO in Google adwords (Again be careful) as this will boost the traffic to your website immediately. Adwords can be very effective though if managed carefully.

If you designed your website yourself then learning SEO techniques wont be a huge problem for you but if its an off the shelf site then I would simply pay someone a one off fee to SEO optimise your website. Do your research though and make sure you know in advance what you are expecting from them.

In time you should then start seeing some results with SEO improvement but I believe it takes a lot of time. Simple as that.

 

[ChrisRM]

Oh, the irony!

This is taken from a Guideline published by Google:

"
Eligible businesses
In order to qualify for a Google My Business listing, a business must make in-person contact with customers during its stated hours.

Exception: ATMs, video-rental kiosks, and express mail dropboxes are permitted. If you add these locations, you must include contact information for customers to get help.

Ineligible businesses
The following businesses aren’t eligible for a business listing:

• Businesses that are under construction or that have not yet opened to the public.
• Rental or for-sale properties, such as vacation homes, model homes or vacant apartments. Sales or leasing offices, however, are eligible for verification.
• An ongoing service, class, or meeting at a location that you don't own or have the authority to represent.

"

An online based business could 'make in-person contact' with customers if they were willing to. It depends on the owner of that business. If Jwan is willing to have potential customers visiting his home then that is his call and his business would be eligible under the guidelines stated. If he is not then he shouldn't submit a listing as it would be in breach of Google's eligibility criteria.

Maybe brick and mortar stores was their original intention for the product but it has evolved to cover a wide variety of businesses. Whether this is to the detriment of the searcher is subjective.

Sorry to OP for the hijacking of the thread!

 

[MyPensionAdviceExpert]

SEO is a long term investment. If you expect to see any return on investment be prepared to wait a while. If you're ranking well for a few long tail keywords that can be a useful way of driving highly relevant traffic to your website, such as by writing loads of blog posts surrounding your core offering, but going off on different tangents.