Growing My Business

[Redd]

Looking for some advice on here regarding growing my business, I feel like I am in such a predicament when considering what to do. I feel I should tell the story in short in order for folk to comment so here goes...
I run a Driveway & Landscaping business, I started in 2013 with very little, probably less than £100(started with 1000 leaflets and a patch that I had my logo printed onto and glued it to a black bodywarmer) I worked out of my bedroom until recently when we bought our first home, a bigger place and I converted the utility room into a home office, All our fitters are sub contracted and I pay their cis tax quarterly, we have 2 trusted teams who I have known for a long time (they're very very good fitters) and they all have there own white vans and tools.
This year we will turnover 500+k which I'm sure will make us the top landscaping company in our area and profits are good, More than enough for me to live well and I am hopeful of being mortgage free next year, Me and my family holiday 5-6 times per year, I am 36 years old. I am absolutely not boasting here, the reason I mention the above is so you can understand my predicament,,,,,

I want to grow again! however in order to grow would mean I would need to take on another 1/2 teams (simple enough) however in order to do this I would have to work a whole lot more which I don't particularly want to do, not because I am lazy but because I know the stresses involved and also I would rather focus on sales which is what I am good at or employ someone to do the majority and I merely do the sales, I also feel to grow I would want proper branded vans to put the brand out there, , possibly have premises, market more at trade shows (we do this 4-5 times a year at moment and it is a trusted marketing plan and does very well) and do a few radio ads, all aimed at firmly making my company/brand much more recognised and the no1 company in our area in peoples eyes. a company that everyone knows. currently our leads come from google and trade shows mostly with some recommends,

The problem with all of the above is I don't need any off it, the white vans work fine, home office is suitable and currently the incoming calls are enough for me to deal with myself and I am happy to do deliveries, marketing, trade shows and sales calls, the problem with this is we won't grow at the rate I would like to, we are well placed now and have the funds to do all of the above and hopefully double our turnover within the next 12 months?

I guess the question is should I stay as I am, comfortable and happy or gamble and really go for it in the hope that in 2-3 years time I have earned enough and have enough infrastructure in place to really step back, I estimate to take on a marketing guy/project manager(he will do various things that I currently do enabling me to focus on sales) would cost around 30k a year.
2 vans would cost around 20k
more trade shows would be around 10k a year
Premises around 10k per year

so 70k all in, another team would give me approx 80-100k profit obviously two teams would double that. the marketing guy would take care of almost everything I currently do and I would essentially be a full time sales person (I enjoy this) so I would probably be working more but not taking 25 bricks onto site or standing in a trade show freezing my **** off nor taking pictures of driveways etc etc, quality I would hope wouldn't be sacrificed infact there is no way I would allow that,

I hope this thread makes sense, I am very confused at this moment and feel like I have hit a bit of a brick wall, I want to be rich, I want my company to be recognised and I want to retire before I am 50, my father passed away before he even retired from his 9-5 job that he didn't enjoy and I don't want that for me. any help/advice would be much much appreciated.

 

[IAmKarlKingOfDucks]

sounds like to me you have an idea what you'd like to accomplish and even have some plans on the how, but are lazy/lacking motivation to do it. do you want to "become rich" or do you prefer to work less and live well?
only you are able to answer these, no one else on the forum can/will do it for you.

when i hit a wall i try to think about how this decision can/will effect my life 5 years from now.
hope this helps. also bear in mind that while you are "not growing", there are people out there who are willing fight as hard to grow their business like you did when you've started.

PS: i'd rather get a website built than do radio ads, in case you don't have one already.

 

[Redd]

THANKS and yes I do have a website, you may well be right re lazy, it has become comfortable and the business kind of takes care of itself these days, if I brought a marketing/project manager type in now for example I would practically have nothing to do, I am a tad bored if I am being honest and growing would probably give me that kick up the backside I need to get hungry again.

Thank you very much for your reply, do I want to get rich or work less is a very good question and one I am going to think about right away. your 100% right, that is the question I need to decide on. cheers

 

[IAmKarlKingOfDucks]

Website is checks out, which is good.
One other thing came into my mind, give your field i'd assume certain months are busier than others. If there is a 2-3 months long patch, do a trial. (i can be very wrong as well, i have exactly zero experience in your field)
Let's assume that between mar-may things are the busiest in the year for you so currently have to decline a lot of work. I'd hire a team for those three months and time some low-mid cost radio advertisements/other form marketing around it.
It would be also a good benchmark for the potential and might even give you the necessary motivation without sinking significant amount of time and money in it.
You could plan everything out in advance, which if considered well could make it manageable.

 

[Alan]

You sound like you would probably benefit from a business coach, first to help you sort out what your real goals are, then look at the situation with you and what options there are and then help you work out what you will do.

As mentioned, only you can actually work this out, but there are plenty of business coaches experienced with showing how to work this out.

I'm sure there are coaches in your area. The cost of having an expert talk to you face to face half a day a month for 3 months or so is trivial compared to your turnover. Have a search for a business coach and see what they can offer you.

 

[ChrisRM]

Firstly congratulations on starting with next to nothing to generating a comfortable lifestyle for you and your family. It is an achievement.

To me, you summed it up in your post...

'should I stay as I am, comfortable and happy or gamble and really go for it in the hope that in 2-3 years time I have earned enough and have enough infrastructure in place to really step back'.

The rest of the content in your post explains both sides of the decision you need to make.

I have come across one 'concept' you may want to consider, the Regret Minimisation Framework (associated to Jeff Bezos).

Basically, project yourself forwards to being 80 and close to the end of your life. Then imagine looking back on your life, are you going to regret not trying this?

Which would you regret more, failing (you gave it a go and it didn't work) or not giving it a go?

 

[Deleted member 268094]

Going for it may be less risky than staying comfortable. Whilst you dont need anymore no business is guaranteed forever. So if you want to be more sure of the lifestyle you and your family have come to enjoy the way to be sure of it in the future may be to expand now and make the most of a good thing.

It sounds like you know what needs to be done and how to do it from an expansion point of view. For the most part it also sounds like you have the right skillsets to create a General Manager to run the business so you can take a step back in the not too distant future. Then you will have a real asset and will have more choices to perhaps diversify and further protect the life you want to live in the present and the future. Personally I think it sounds like you've already done the hard part and created a proven business model and its simply a case of replicating and creating good processes. Not that I'm saying thats an easy task but it sounds lie your're equipped to deal with it.

There's also plenty of ways to structure an expansion in a way that could minimise your risk and allow you to go back to how you are setup now if you dip your toe in and it doesnt work out. For that you really need to seek some good professional advice.

Good luck sounds like an exciting time!

 

[Redd]

Hi Guys, Thank you all for your fantastic input, I have been doing some serious thinking last few days and will continue to do so, I am leaning towards going for it and buying two new vans for my sub contractors, ones that I can sign write myself and gain the advertising from that also which in turn will help me build the image and brand I want to create, new website is already in motion so that will help also, the project manager guy will be a huge help especially in the summer months. I advertised for one last week and had over 20 applications in already so thats positive too.

Thank you all again, this forum is such a great place for advice

 

[Vincent79]

I would say you should take this opportunity and make the best of it. I operate my business as a "one man band" with occasional help and this has led to it stagnating and doing everything myself.

 

[Root 66 Woodshop]

Hi Guys, Thank you all for your fantastic input, I have been doing some serious thinking last few days and will continue to do so, I am leaning towards going for it and buying two new vans for my sub contractors, ones that I can sign write myself and gain the advertising from that also which in turn will help me build the image and brand I want to create, new website is already in motion so that will help also, the project manager guy will be a huge help especially in the summer months. I advertised for one last week and had over 20 applications in already so thats positive too.

Thank you all again, this forum is such a great place for advice

I get the taking on subbies with your own vehicles - really I do... I get that, but why would you need a project Manager? - Isn't this your business... how can taking on a Project Manager benefit you... while you're still running about like a blue assed fly completing the works with your subbies... Surely this is your business? Surely You should be the Project Manager and you should be taking a load off your feet and having the subbies run around like blue assed flies for you? Get them to do the manual work while you do the ordering in of product etc etc and running each site.

Don't forget here for a moment... that YOU are the brand and YOU are the company... you have a team (assuming at the moment) that you want to expand, expand the team by all means, teach them your quirks, your tricks of the trade to keep the momentum of the brand and business going... keep them on their toes, don't take on someone that would initially end up being the "new face" of the company... don't belittle or degrade what you've already achieved.

This is of course my personal opinion.

 

[The Byre]

Hello again Redd and nice to see that you are going places!

I cannot go into the details here, simply because I don't know enough about you are your business. So instead, I shall give you one piece of advice. "Step-by-step!"

That was it!

i.e. you have identified where you want to be, so now you have to work our roughly how you are to get there and what the steps are on the way. That, you seem to have done so far.

I always advise against taking giant leaps and risking it all on one throw of the dice. To illustrate what I mean here, let me tell you about two brothers I used to know -

About 30 years ago, they inherited a disused, 10-acre industrial plot of land South of a large European city. It was not worth much, but they had a dream!

They both knew that private television was growing in their country and would soon be looking for space to grow and therefore would need studio facilities. To this end, they set about over the next two years, converting the existing buildings into offices and small studios and putting up cheap metal sheds, to be used as large game show and variety entertainment venues.

As with all things, the problem was money. They had none! Certainly not enough to build a film and TV studio complex.

Well, actually, they had another problem - no customers! Also, the city fathers had decided (the way politicians who know absolutely nothing about anything always do!) to create a 'state-of-the-art' media park that, they assumed, would become the hub for a growing film and TV industry. The brothers pulled long faces and feared that this would scupper all their plans!

As luck would have it, a growing private TV station (today, the largest private TV station in Europe) did not move into the media park, but into a city centre location that afforded no real scope for further growth. So when it came to putting on their version of 'Who Wants to be a Millionaire?' they needed a TV studio that could take an audience and the relatively large set required. The brothers were able to rent out their one and only shed and the production company moved in (where they still are to this day!)

Optimistically, they called that shed, 'The Game Factory!'

Armed with a five-year contract and a regular income, they borrowed money to build an even bigger shed. That became the venue for even bigger shows and the station created their version of NBC's 'Saturday Night Live!' (which bombed totally, but was quickly replaced by a nightly talk show with variety acts.)

To cut a very, very long story short, the TV station predictably outgrew the small city centre location and moved onto the 10-acre site. Today, there are 18 large studios and several control rooms and the brothers bought another cheap industrial site to the North-East of the city, where they built a further 20 studios, used permanently by the eight top stations in that country.

But always, shed-by-shed.

They then founded a film company and have so far produced 26 relatively low budget films, most of which were ghastly rubbish, but turned a profit. Last I heard, turnover was €40m p.a.

 

[Ian J]

I estimate to take on a marketing guy/project manager(he will do various things that I currently do enabling me to focus on sales) would cost around 30k a year.

If you take on a project manager you could possibly end up training a new competitor

 

[Redd]

I get the taking on subbies with your own vehicles - really I do... I get that, but why would you need a project Manager? - Isn't this your business... how can taking on a Project Manager benefit you... while you're still running about like a blue assed fly completing the works with your subbies... Surely this is your business? Surely You should be the Project Manager and you should be taking a load off your feet and having the subbies run around like blue assed flies for you? Get them to do the manual work while you do the ordering in of product etc etc and running each site.

Don't forget here for a moment... that YOU are the brand and YOU are the company... you have a team (assuming at the moment) that you want to expand, expand the team by all means, teach them your quirks, your tricks of the trade to keep the momentum of the brand and business going... keep them on their toes, don't take on someone that would initially end up being the "new face" of the company... don't belittle or degrade what you've already achieved.

This is of course my personal opinion.

Hey and thanks for this, Currently I don't do any Manual Labour, The subs are all much more qualified and frankly better than me, The purpose of the project manager is to do the trade shows, do more leaflet drops, deliver extra materials required to the Guys and get more leads in other ways, If I want to grow I need more leads. I currently don't have enough time myself to commit to finding them as I'm busy doing the leads we have then delivering stuff to site, standing in trade shows all day etc etc.

If he done that amongst other lead generation we would have more leads which would free me up to attend them all and still be on site every 2nd day or so

 

[Redd]

Hello again Redd and nice to see that you are going places!

I cannot go into the details here, simply because I don't know enough about you are your business. So instead, I shall give you one piece of advice. "Step-by-step!"

That was it!

i.e. you have identified where you want to be, so now you have to work our roughly how you are to get there and what the steps are on the way. That, you seem to have done so far.

I always advise against taking giant leaps and risking it all on one throw of the dice. To illustrate what I mean here, let me tell you about two brothers I used to know -

Hello Again Byre interesting story and wow!

The step by Step advice has been noted, I think taking on this guy would help,
my plan is to use Jan-Mar to fill up my two current teams hopefully into June-July, if this works then come March
I will look into a 3rd team as we will naturally get bigger and phone ins alone will supply my current two teams with work for rest of year, Roll with the new team until December and do the same again next January 2018 Depending on how many leads this guy gets and also how easy he makes the transition I may take on 2 teams at this point, Taking me to 5 teams at which point I will have to employ somebody else I'm sure!

I want to retire at 50 so I still have 14 years to get this done
! If I'm being honest I actually want to semi retire at 40 Which gives me 4 years to implement this which is again why it's vital I choose the correct guy

Semi retiring at 40 isn't me being lazy lol, I just want to enjoy my life, after listening to all the very very good advice on here I am definitely goung to go for it but again Byre you are 100% right step by step


Can I ask what ou guys think of the van issue? Right now the fitters all have their own vans and tools, any new team would also. There just standard white vans, I would love nothing more than to see my logo stretched over some shiny new black vans(I have a nice logo which look great on black)
This is actually a dream for me HOWEVER the wee safe guy in the back of my head is saying why spend 20k on two new vans when you don't have to?

 

[Redd]

Hey Byre no thanks for that, just replied but don't know where it went?

Can i ask what you guys think of me getting new vans, it's been my dream to see a fleet of 2-3 black ford transits driving around town with my lovely logo attached to it, I also have a black ranger so that would all look really good and the image would be fantastic not to mention advertising all over town.....however the wee safe guy in the back of my head is saying why on earth spend 20-30k on vans you don't need as currently the fitters all supply their own white vans and tools(ps we have discussed them sign writing their vans but their never keen to do this, one team did then we fell out one day and he took it all off lol, it didn't look anywhere near as striking as the black van with silver logo would anyway but it was still better than plain white)

 

[AllUpHere]

You need to make a business decision for the vans, not one based on vanity. Years ago you could set yourself apart from the travellers and cowboys in their beat up old transits by having something flash. These days every second traveller or cowboy you see is in a new Navara, Ranger, or other such vehicle.

 

[Redd]

You need to make a business decision for the vans, not one based on vanity. Years ago you could set yourself apart from the travellers and cowboys in their beat up old transits by having something flash. These days every second traveller or cowboy you see is in a new Navara, Ranger, or other such vehicle.

Your Absolutely right however if there in a flash new navara and We're in transits

 

[Redd]

Your absolutely right but if there in new navara's and I'm in a white transit........

Get your point on vanity too. It's a little bit vanity too no doubt but I want to be seen and known as the biggest and best and this would help I think(that wee safe guy is back again tho as I type)

 

[AllUpHere]

I did say every second one had a 4 x 4 pickup. The rest are driving new transits (usually customs, in blue, with chrome bits and occasionally those silly Dodge Viper style stripes).

 

[AllUpHere]

In your industry you will shoot yourself in the foot running a fleet of new vans. From a marketing perspective it's a poor move, not to mention the fact that having staff driving them is never going to keep them nice for long.

 

[Root 66 Woodshop]

Hey and thanks for this, Currently I don't do any Manual Labour, The subs are all much more qualified and frankly better than me, The purpose of the project manager is to do the trade shows, do more leaflet drops, deliver extra materials required to the Guys and get more leads in other ways, If I want to grow I need more leads. I currently don't have enough time myself to commit to finding them as I'm busy doing the leads we have then delivering stuff to site, standing in trade shows all day etc etc.

If he done that amongst other lead generation we would have more leads which would free me up to attend them all and still be on site every 2nd day or so

Sounds more like you need a Marketing Sales Manager rather than a Project Manager... you're currently managing the projects yourself (by the sound of it) keep that being your bag... Someone in Marketing and Sales would benefit you more than a Projects Manager.

With regards to Vans... I agree, it would be nice for you to have those... but wouldn't it be more proactive to take the step of getting a Marketing Sales Manager first... get more orders in before you start spending more money?

With regards to advertising - would it not be more beneficial to corner off the drives that you're working on with small fencing with your billboards on... it would kind of work in a two fold way... (technically 3 ways )

1. protecting passers by from a H&S aspect
2. Adverting
3. A reveal... you can have the customer stood on the outside of the fencing and you "lift the veil" as it were and present the work done...

Take a step at a time - it's your choice really, all people here can do is advise, whether you take the advice and use it or not it's entirely up to you...

Example: We have someone employed purely to run social media - online news articles that we run, advertising, chasing leads, chasing enquiries etc

 

[The Byre]

just replied but don't know where it went?

You wrote your answer on the wrong side of the quote-brackets!

The lost bit ran -

Hello Again Byre interesting story and wow!

The step by Step advice has been noted, I think taking on this guy would help,
my plan is to use Jan-Mar to fill up my two current teams hopefully into June-July, if this works then come March I will look into a 3rd team as we will naturally get bigger and phone ins alone will supply my current two teams with work for rest of year, Roll with the new team until December and do the same again next January 2018 Depending on how many leads this guy gets and also how easy he makes the transition I may take on 2 teams at this point, Taking me to 5 teams at which point I will have to employ somebody else I'm sure!

I want to retire at 50 so I still have 14 years to get this done! If I'm being honest I actually want to semi retire at 40 Which gives me 4 years to implement this which is again why it's vital I choose the correct guy

Semi retiring at 40 isn't me being lazy lol, I just want to enjoy my life, after listening to all the very very good advice on here I am definitely goung to go for it but again Byre you are 100% right step by step

Can I ask what ou guys think of the van issue? Right now the fitters all have their own vans and tools, any new team would also. There just standard white vans, I would love nothing more than to see my logo stretched over some shiny new black vans(I have a nice logo which look great on black)
This is actually a dream for me HOWEVER the wee safe guy in the back of my head is saying why spend 20k on two new vans when you don't have to?

@AllUpHere has put is perfectly -

You need to make a business decision for the vans, not one based on vanity.

What I did not tell you is the end to the story of the two brothers (I had to look them up on Wiki and find out what happened to them in the end!)

They thought they were major media players. They imagined that somehow, they were up there with the big boys - Kirch, Murdoch, Viacom, Universal and Disney. They gambled on real media projects, when in reality they were builders and owners of sheds. Had they stuck to that and not started to risk it all on projects they did not understand (i.e. major film and TV productions) they would not have become unstuck and have to sell everything.

They were not in the media business, they were in real-estate, but knew how to sell that real-estate in tidy rental packages to the TV industry. They may have been rubbing shoulders with the good-and-great of that country's creative industry, but in reality, they knew jack about how to put together a movie or a TV series.

Something suggests here that you are a good salesman. You know how to sell Angus MacCrusty and his goofy mate Jim in a battered white Transit as a landscaping deal. As the old saying goes, if it ain't bust, don't fix it!

Being a good sales person is one of the rarest skills on Planet Earth. (I've just done a round of all the local car dealers, looking for a near-new estate car. Not one of the goof-balls I encountered - junior or senior - could sell so much as a bag of sweets!)

Your gig is selling driveways and garden landscaping packages. Angus does not know how to do that. He knows how to pave the driveway and he's a cracker on the mini-digger, but Old Angus does not have a clue how to get his foot in the door. That's your gig!

The moment two uniformed young men in a flash back van with sexy silver markings turn up, the customer will (rightly?) assume that there is too much mark-up in that game and go looking for old Angus and Jim.

I have a friend who is a plumber. He does not go round his customers, making quotes and assessing jobs in his brand new gin-palace of a Ranger Rover. He goes round in a plumber's van. His boys do not do the work in uniforms and come in new, sexy vans with the company logo all over them, but in regular tatty jeans and driving sensible used vans with the name discretely marked on the doors.
___________________

As for the idea of retiring at 50 - no you won't!

How do I know? Easy! I retired at 50! Sold up totally and knocked it all on the head!

Within a year, I had started a new business.

Last year, I retired again. This time, at the age of 65. Boring!!!

Yet another new business. This time bigger and funkier than ever! I am now working harder than at any time in my entire life, getting ready for this new adventure.

 

[Redd]

In your industry you will shoot yourself in the foot running a fleet of new vans. From a marketing perspective it's a poor move, not to mention the fact that having staff driving them is never going to keep them nice for long.

they wouldn't be new vans, I disagree with shoot in foot but thanks for comment

 

[Redd]

You wrote your answer on the wrong side of the quote-brackets!

The lost bit ran -

Hello Again Byre interesting story and wow!

The step by Step advice has been noted, I think taking on this guy would help,
my plan is to use Jan-Mar to fill up my two current teams hopefully into June-July, if this works then come March I will look into a 3rd team as we will naturally get bigger and phone ins alone will supply my current two teams with work for rest of year, Roll with the new team until December and do the same again next January 2018 Depending on how many leads this guy gets and also how easy he makes the transition I may take on 2 teams at this point, Taking me to 5 teams at which point I will have to employ somebody else I'm sure!

I want to retire at 50 so I still have 14 years to get this done! If I'm being honest I actually want to semi retire at 40 Which gives me 4 years to implement this which is again why it's vital I choose the correct guy

Semi retiring at 40 isn't me being lazy lol, I just want to enjoy my life, after listening to all the very very good advice on here I am definitely goung to go for it but again Byre you are 100% right step by step

Can I ask what ou guys think of the van issue? Right now the fitters all have their own vans and tools, any new team would also. There just standard white vans, I would love nothing more than to see my logo stretched over some shiny new black vans(I have a nice logo which look great on black)
This is actually a dream for me HOWEVER the wee safe guy in the back of my head is saying why spend 20k on two new vans when you don't have to?

@AllUpHere has put is perfectly -



What I did not tell you is the end to the story of the two brothers (I had to look them up on Wiki and find out what happened to them in the end!)

They thought they were major media players. They imagined that somehow, they were up there with the big boys - Kirch, Murdoch, Viacom, Universal and Disney. They gambled on real media projects, when in reality they were builders and owners of sheds. Had they stuck to that and not started to risk it all on projects they did not understand (i.e. major film and TV productions) they would not have become unstuck and have to sell everything.

They were not in the media business, they were in real-estate, but knew how to sell that real-estate in tidy rental packages to the TV industry. They may have been rubbing shoulders with the good-and-great of that country's creative industry, but in reality, they knew jack about how to put together a movie or a TV series.

Something suggests here that you are a good salesman. You know how to sell Angus MacCrusty and his goofy mate Jim in a battered white Transit as a landscaping deal. As the old saying goes, if it ain't bust, don't fix it!

Being a good sales person is one of the rarest skills on Planet Earth. (I've just done a round of all the local car dealers, looking for a near-new estate car. Not one of the goof-balls I encountered - junior or senior - could sell so much as a bag of sweets!)

Your gig is selling driveways and garden landscaping packages. Angus does not know how to do that. He knows how to pave the driveway and he's a cracker on the mini-digger, but Old Angus does not have a clue how to get his foot in the door. That's your gig!

The moment two uniformed young men in a flash back van with sexy silver markings turn up, the customer will (rightly?) assume that there is too much mark-up in that game and go looking for old Angus and Jim.

I have a friend who is a plumber. He does not go round his customers, making quotes and assessing jobs in his brand new gin-palace of a Ranger Rover. He goes round in a plumber's van. His boys do not do the work in uniforms and come in new, sexy vans with the company logo all over them, but in regular tatty jeans and driving sensible used vans with the name discretely marked on the doors.
___________________

As for the idea of retiring at 50 - no you won't!

How do I know? Easy! I retired at 50! Sold up totally and knocked it all on the head!

Within a year, I had started a new business.

Last year, I retired again. This time, at the age of 65. Boring!!!

Yet another new business. This time bigger and funkier than ever! I am now working harder than at any time in my entire life, getting ready for this new adventure.

Haha what a great story and your probably right re retiring, hope your wrong though

With regards to shiny new van and mark up I somewhat agree however I think clients would prefer a sign van rather than a white, they want there neighbours to know they ain't got just anyone, we have a very trusting name also. Not to mention 6/7 day advertising

You are also hit nail on head with Angus the great digger driver and also that being a great salesperson can be the most lucrative job on earth which also helps us cause no other company can copy us because you can't buy this! I guess I am fortunate that I can "talk"

 

[Redd]

Sounds more like you need a Marketing Sales Manager rather than a Project Manager... you're currently managing the projects yourself (by the sound of it) keep that being your bag... Someone in Marketing and Sales would benefit you more than a Projects Manager.

With regards to Vans... I agree, it would be nice for you to have those... but wouldn't it be more proactive to take the step of getting a Marketing Sales Manager first... get more orders in before you start spending more money?

With regards to advertising - would it not be more beneficial to corner off the drives that you're working on with small fencing with your billboards on... it would kind of work in a two fold way... (technically 3 ways )

1. protecting passers by from a H&S aspect
2. Adverting
3. A reveal... you can have the customer stood on the outside of the fencing and you "lift the veil" as it were and present the work done...

Take a step at a time - it's your choice really, all people here can do is advise, whether you take the advice and use it or not it's entirely up to you...

Example: We have someone employed purely to run social media - online news articles that we run, advertising, chasing leads, chasing enquiries etc

Hey and yeah absolutely I will get Marketing guy in first AND make sure it's working before I buy the first van, if it continues to work I will get another,

As for fencing well we currently put A Boards up and really we generally never have space on streets for this and even if we did the council would go nuts!

With regards to project managing I would still do big part of this, project manager probably wasn't the right title to use, his or her role would be to order and collect/deliver any additional materials, take calls from fitters , do any repairs, then on marketing side so the trade shows. Leaflets around installs and taking pictures

 

[Edd Dutton]

The problem with all of the above is I don't need any off it

Hi Redd, thanks for your post. It sounds like you might have a fear of success.

I've worked with startups who stumped their growth because they were too scared to take that next step. From what you've said, it sounds like you're psychologically ready to grow. You have a vague idea of how you need to grow but what you really need is a strong strategy and a competent team to guide you through without damaging what you've built so far.

More than happy to have a chat to hear where you're at with more detail.

 

[Redd]

Hi Redd, thanks for your post. It sounds like you might have a fear of success.

I've worked with startups who stumped their growth because they were too scared to take that next step. From what you've said, it sounds like you're psychologically ready to grow. You have a vague idea of how you need to grow but what you really need is a strong strategy and a competent team to guide you through without damaging what you've built so far.

More than happy to have a chat to hear where you're at with more detail.

Hi Edd, sent pm

 

[billmccallum1957]

Whilst thinking about growing your business, don't forget about growing your staff.

One of your team might want to move into management and growth might be a way to promote from within, where bringing in new people might upset some of your team, so talk to them and let them know where you are going and how they fit into your plans.

 

[billmccallum1957]

p.s. think about contract hire instead of purchasing vans.

 

[Rymer Associates]

Hi Redd,

Not sure if you need any more help but I would be more than happy to offer a forecasting tool to help you understand the "what-ifs" financially. You may have already done this which is great but I would be happy to give it the once over or create something bespoke for you, just so you understand what happens should it not work out or if it takes off better than you expected. Free of charge ofcourse! Just drop me a line if it's of any interest

 

[Ideasfactory]

Please think long and hard about this and do not rush. (seems you are doing this)

I was in the same position, ticking over on 700K t/o, working myself at home with subbie out 'on the tools' and taking a nice wage but I wanted more so we grew and over a 24month period we went to £2.7m t/o and 6 full time employees and our own rented premises.

I am now back at home working from scratch again after it all went bump.

The search for more work for more men lead to bigger jobs and bigger risk, and bigger customers who pushed payments to 30, 60, and 90 days. We could not manage the cash-flow problems which ended us. with the biggest job on 90days we were something waiting on +£400k and we could not accommodate it. I gave a dg to the bank to increase our o/d and that just lead to me losing my house too.

Please speak to your family too. Do you have a wife and children? Would they prefer Dad there all the time living comfortably, or dad stressed and flat-out but with loads of money?..


I certainly am not trying to put you off, the buzz of seeing your brand grow and seeing people recognise it and taking on more employees is great, but there is a flip side. Best of luck.

 

[Redd]

Please think long and hard about this and do not rush. (seems you are doing this)

I was in the same position, ticking over on 700K t/o, working myself at home with subbie out 'on the tools' and taking a nice wage but I wanted more so we grew and over a 24month period we went to £2.7m t/o and 6 full time employees and our own rented premises.

I am now back at home working from scratch again after it all went bump.

The search for more work for more men lead to bigger jobs and bigger risk, and bigger customers who pushed payments to 30, 60, and 90 days. We could not manage the cash-flow problems which ended us. with the biggest job on 90days we were something waiting on +£400k and we could not accommodate it. I gave a dg to the bank to increase our o/d and that just lead to me losing my house too.

Please speak to your family too. Do you have a wife and children? Would they prefer Dad there all the time living comfortably, or dad stressed and flat-out but with loads of money?..


I certainly am not trying to put you off, the buzz of seeing your brand grow and seeing people recognise it and taking on more employees is great, but there is a flip side. Best of luck.

Hey, Firstly thank you for your informative reply and this is kind of the reason why I posted this thread for fear of this and to ascertain thoughts, I'm sorry to hear about your business, however that is an incredible rise to 2.7m so I'm sure you will get this back to a comfortable level, really hope you do.

I don't think I am rushing this and perhaps I have worded things wrong above, we started with one team in 2013, then in 2015 we went up to 2(3 in summer), we are still sitting at 2/3 as we approach 2017, I'm merely thinking of taking that to 3g(4 in summer) for this time, it's unlikely to be 4 any other time than summer months June-sept. I absolutely take your point though! I have also resisted the temptation to break into commercial for the very reasons you stated, 30-90 day wait for payment, the fact that one real non payment would end me and also that there's not a lot of money in commercial I don't think!
My wife and kids are fully behind me, I have just bought a new property though and that and my family are priority no question which leads me back to my original question, do I do this and stress more with less time with kids(youngest is 4)
I honestly reckon at moment it's 2 teams and adding one more team wouldn't put me under much more presssure and hopefully this new person can take some off it from me, just vital I choose correct guy,
Thank you for your reply, that's very interesting and good luck again getting back to where you want to be

 

[Samaksh]

There are several ways of growing your business by making your product or services available to the pool of customers. For this, it is obvious to have a website with the online store and extend your reach through advertising. You may also use social media for advertising.

 

[Ally Maxwell]

There are several ways of growing your business by making your product or services available to the pool of customers. For this, it is obvious to have a website with the online store and extend your reach through advertising. You may also use social media for advertising.

Have you actually read any of this thread ?

 

[Talay]

In one of my businesses I was looking at an acquisition which would double the turnover and add about 75% to the bottom line. I could not manage it all so I hired a quasi Operations / General Manager.

£45/50k plus car and they brought over 15 years experience. They were able to pick it up virtually from day one post acquisition and now they run it as a separate division. We have added a junior as a future potential replacement to bolster the management team.

That piece of the business was making about £150k. So I "gave away" 1/3rd of that in salary costs to someone to run it. They pushed it forward to over £200k profits so they added value roughly equivalent to their costs whilst at the same time running it and freeing up my time.

As a tangential, I benefit from an experienced GM who can bring in ideas and with whom I can talk through strategy. It has been invaluable in that respect.

 

[Redd]

Thank you guys for all the input, I have decided to take on someone 25hours, found a decent guy who I am going to trial for 6-8 weeks, I think he will do well,
We are currently fully booked into March anyway so I propose to hopefully use January and mid Feb to fill up both teams until June then come mid February take on a 3rd team and try get them booked into June, this will take me to Mid March, at which point I will use rest of March and to mid April and should all teams be fully booked with plenty to spare throughout the year I will look at a 4th team for 2018(possibly earlier if it goes really well)

I wonder if we could change the question a little and go back to new Vans? I really would like at least my two main teams to be driving about in nice vans(not brand new, maybe 12-13 plates, Black with my logo which looks great on mine. I just feel it would help create the brand more, it would look great and a lot lot more professional than white vans, it would also be good advertising when driving through town and sitting outside of jobs 6 days a week.
On other hand it would mean me purchasing vans at around 10k each, insuring them at around £50 a month each and all repairs. I do none of this at the moment as fitters supply own vans. I am also of the belief that if it ain't broken? When I do the appointments my van is prestine so clients see that, when boys show up in white van they may be a little disappointed but as soon as the boys go to work they see the quality.

New Vans or Old Vans is the question

(I wouldn't say this is an ego thing but yes I do want the company to look professional and good and also feel the advertising aspect is important too)

 

[billmccallum1957]

New Vans or Old Vans is the question

(I wouldn't say this is an ego thing but yes I do want the company to look professional and good and also feel the advertising aspect is important too)

they can still have their own van's, but you pay to get them wrapped with your branding.

 

[Redd]

Yeah there all sceptical about doing this, perhaps time for another chat on that!

 

[Talay]

When you are small and finance is an issue, running older equipment via outright ownership is the cheapest. However, as you get bigger, ownership means sacrificing capital which would otherwise be available for growth, unless you generate profits way in excess of your requirements.

For example, cash on deposit earns virtually nothing so if that is your only option, buying rather than leasing makes veritable sense. Likewise, if you could borrow at 5% but the IRR in leasing was 10% then borrowing for purchase rather than leasing could make sense.

If you can generate 30% from investment in growth then obviously it makes sense to lease at 10% and enjoy growth at 30%, being a (simplistic) net 20% "profit" over buying.

However, tax treatment is important and you should talk things through with your accountant.

As for branding, then you need to understand how you generate customers and where your vans would be displayed. One reasons for wrapping a van with logos etc. is that when it is sitting outside a customer's house, or on the road, it is a mobile advertising platform.

 

[Edd Dutton]

Yeah there all sceptical about doing this, perhaps time for another chat on that!

I suggest pricing it all up and weighing up the value it'll bring you. If you consider your brand and its impact as valuable you'll know how much you need to spend.