paid vs Diy seo
- Thread starter ruudvn
- Start date
D
david8765
Yeah the trade off is the time. SEO involves serious chunks of time learning, testing and keeping up to date with the goings on the world of search. Professional can apply all that time to a larger number of projects where as you will only be applying that to one or two websites. You may well find that you can actually save money paying a professional and spending your time doing something more profitable (if that makes sense).
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Give it a go. It's not hard, it's just hard work. At the very least it will give you an insight into what it takes to create a website that ranks. Also, if you are not successful you will feel better about parting with cash as you'll know what you are paying for.
d
d
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DIY isnt as free as everyone thinks. It can be more costly.
If you can afford to wait then take time to learn it properly.
Mistakes are not taken lightly by google. You may think your doing something right but inevitably you could be doing irrevitable damage.
If you can afford to wait then take time to learn it properly.
Mistakes are not taken lightly by google. You may think your doing something right but inevitably you could be doing irrevitable damage.
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A
ADS-MARKETING
Knowledge is Power - But also Time is Money!
If your business makes a lot of money from the internet then pay someone to do the SEO and concentrate on running the business day to day.
SEO is very time consuming and more people will be become reliant on it as the internet grows. We all want to be ranked well.
If your business makes a lot of money from the internet then pay someone to do the SEO and concentrate on running the business day to day.
SEO is very time consuming and more people will be become reliant on it as the internet grows. We all want to be ranked well.
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I hate to be spamtastic, but it's interesting that this question has come up this week, given that my upcoming newsletter is about this very topic.
It's going out on Friday. I'll try to remember to post a link to it then.
Steve
PS IMO, the answer is very clear.
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Excellent article Steve.
Wouldn't it be nice if all businesses listened to this kind of advice?
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Thanks for the article Steve and I agree with you however there is one point that you haven't covered. Unfortuantely a lot (and I mean A LOT) of small businesses are still really struggling out there and to even consider £2000 - £4000 for SEO for their site just isn't doable.
If you take into consideration the costs of starting up most business (and I am not saying this is right either) wouldn't even consider SEO costs from the outset because they don't realise how important it is to their business.
What I do see a lot of as well is businesses who rely completely on their SEO of their site and think it is the only way to promote their business - by the power of search.
SEO is still an unknown quantity to many businesses and individuals as well, the mere mention of the phrase raises eyebrows and questions.
Ok maybe that is more than one point and let's remember your email readers are obviously business savvy, SEO aware readers.
I think it is a bit of the same old, same old a combination of all the comments on this thread - although we have our opinions about it and can comment all day on the rights and wrongs ultimately business owners will make the decision that is best for them at the time. It may cost them more, or take longer than they had intended but not everyone will fail.
Just my 2p.
Regards
Emma
If you take into consideration the costs of starting up most business (and I am not saying this is right either) wouldn't even consider SEO costs from the outset because they don't realise how important it is to their business.
What I do see a lot of as well is businesses who rely completely on their SEO of their site and think it is the only way to promote their business - by the power of search.
SEO is still an unknown quantity to many businesses and individuals as well, the mere mention of the phrase raises eyebrows and questions.
Ok maybe that is more than one point and let's remember your email readers are obviously business savvy, SEO aware readers.
I think it is a bit of the same old, same old a combination of all the comments on this thread - although we have our opinions about it and can comment all day on the rights and wrongs ultimately business owners will make the decision that is best for them at the time. It may cost them more, or take longer than they had intended but not everyone will fail.
Just my 2p.Regards
Emma
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Hence why I only work on a profit share basis,as I know even the poorest business can afford an initial payment of zero.
But of course I only take on business's that I know can make money with there product.
If you think there is a better way that SEO to make money for a website business .
I would be most interested to know.?
Earl
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No Earl - I don't
You are a rare breed.
Regards
Emma
PS I've missed you and I like your new Tiger look!
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Good SEO is expensive, because it is that good. Some companies will generate web content just for your links.
The main problem with SEO is people can burnt by companies. Finding a good company is very important. As you've got the basic knowledge build upon it. Then when you are ready to outsource to someone you'll know if they are telling you the correct advice.
Good luck.
The main problem with SEO is people can burnt by companies. Finding a good company is very important. As you've got the basic knowledge build upon it. Then when you are ready to outsource to someone you'll know if they are telling you the correct advice.
Good luck.
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Question: Can they afford to spend 4 months earning nothing while they get nowhere with SEO?
My belief is that, unless the business owner already has proven SEO skills, SEO isn't appropriate for a new business.
Instead I think SEO (if used at all) should be something that's paid for out of the profits from paid advertising.
There are many reasons why I believe this - too many to go into today - but it solves the cashflow problem, for starters.
I very much doubt that. Many business owners make questionable decisions based on poor information.
Steve
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I don't disagree with you I think it is a good idea - my point was that many small businesses don't do paid advertising and reply entirely on the SEO of their site.
I slightly disagree with SEO not being appropriate for a new business as from the day you buy the domain name for your new business the SEO process begins.
Trouble is many new start ups just literally do that - start up, with no prior knowledge of anything business related. I agree with the profits from paid advertising but again many businesses don't have controls in place to know whether or not they have made any money from advertising.
Re Business owners making decisions, I didn't say they made the RIGHT decisions just what is best for THEM at the time. Poor information? Yes very much so, but lack of research and knowledge makes that all together worse.
Regards
Emma
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If they have the rankings - and keep those rankings - that's fine.
But as a strategy for a startup, I think it's nuts.
Surely the "right decision" is "what's best for them at the time"?
(Based on the information they have available.)
Steve
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Ok I think I missed a "think" in there! Based on what they "think" is best for them at the time - afterall we are all different and that's why so many small businesses fail within the first 3 years isn't it? Bad product or bad businessmen - ahh a whole other debate.
Regards
Emma
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As per my knowledge there are more then 28 way of doing SEO including on page and off page, I would like to say that you might be knowing all the techniques these but it will be very difficult for you to maintain the rank, it require constant efforts if you think that you are capable of that then you should go for it and if you think to give to company then also it is good option there will be less burden on you, yes it will cost you. I hope this will help you.
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nicksix
Last September when i really started pushing my business whilst still working full time i took a sharp learning curve in SEO and how it is done. This paid off in the end for me as i have completed various goal sets i made to myself and gained some large customers from it. One position that i always maintain though is that SEO is always changing and what other people have said on here about it being time consuming is very true.
Good luck
Good luck
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Hi Steve, another excellent and thought provoking article from you and whilst I agree with the main thrust of it, I don't think it's a simple case of "one size fits all", by that I mean there are more things to take into consideration than to simply suggest, there's no point in doing your own seo.
At the crux of the other side of the argument is the point that Emma brought up, there are a hell of a lot of small businesses out there who simply cannot afford to pay a professional seo, most of these businesses have already started down the road, slapped up a website with the idea "build it and they will come". These businesses are the most vulnerable to be preyed upon by the seo scam artists, promising the earth for very little (or a lot) of money.
Here's my thoughts on the money side of things.
I thought the article was very good but at the same time, clinical! There's no flexibility for it to adapt to other scenarios, it just asserts the view that businesses shouldn't waste time learning seo but to go and pay for it because every second they don't do this they're losing money, most businesses don't earn from the outset but are often built up over time into profitable businesses, there's no shortcut to bypassing the development curve.
Another important side benefit of learning about seo (I'm not talking about learning all the ins and outs to do it on a professional level) is that it'll forearm a business against:
1) Ending up with a website that is going nowhere in the search engines due to structure or design limitations (in my experience a pretty common occurrence).
2) Employing a dodgy seo company who could well do more harm than good to their website (I'm seeing more new enquiries from people who are better informed about seo which empowers them to make informed decisions, than previously).
Seo is one of the fundamentals to the success of a website and is something that should be taken into consideration at the planning stages of a website which will hopefully prevent costly (both in time and money) mistakes being made in the building stages of the website.
Last thoughts...
1] If you've got the time available to learn seo for yourself then jump in and roll your sleeves up, it'll cost you nothing except your time and, if the time you spend reading up on seo would otherwise be spent vegging in front of the telly then at least your time is working ultimately in your own business interests.
2] If you don't get it or flop, or even get cheesed of with things then yes, pay someone to do it but that doesn't necessarily mean a full blown seo campaign needs implementing. Trim your keywords down and trim your costs accordingly. As with everything, start small and work up when the money starts rolling in.
3] Can non techy people learn seo? Absolutely! How many businesses will have experienced improved rankings (rankings that have resulted in an increase in revenue) simply because they hung around this seo forum or other seo forums, read, asked questions and applied the advice, 5, 25 or thousands? I bet it's in the thousands.
Seo is not rocket science! It's far easier than it's made out to be (very often misrepresented to businesses as some sort of mystic science ) and is freely available to those that have a desire to succeed no matter how tough things are. You also don't need to be an expert at seo to get something out of it. It is entirely possible to start off small, pick off the low lying fruit and grow in expertise whilst seo-ing your site.
I also completely agree that seo is not necessarily a standalone solution to online business, especially new businesses, you need to implement other forms of marketing (including ppc) to ensure that your website stands the best chance. I believe that ppc and seo should go hand in hand as an online marketing strategy whilst you should also be exploring off line marketing ideas as well. Seo is certainly not a quick fix and you need to have in place other, more instant means of attaining visitors for your website whilst waiting for the organic rankings to show.
Just my 2C
Ray
Ps. Thanks for the kind words
At the crux of the other side of the argument is the point that Emma brought up, there are a hell of a lot of small businesses out there who simply cannot afford to pay a professional seo, most of these businesses have already started down the road, slapped up a website with the idea "build it and they will come". These businesses are the most vulnerable to be preyed upon by the seo scam artists, promising the earth for very little (or a lot) of money.
Here's my thoughts on the money side of things.
The implication here is that every business owner is working from waking to sleeping making money, now I'm sure that this is not the case and each and every one of us has a degree of free time to do with what we will. If some of that free time is spent on forums learning about seo strategies that can then be implemented to increase the profitability of their own websites, nurturing your website little by little will, over time, pay dividends.
I thought the article was very good but at the same time, clinical! There's no flexibility for it to adapt to other scenarios, it just asserts the view that businesses shouldn't waste time learning seo but to go and pay for it because every second they don't do this they're losing money, most businesses don't earn from the outset but are often built up over time into profitable businesses, there's no shortcut to bypassing the development curve.
Another important side benefit of learning about seo (I'm not talking about learning all the ins and outs to do it on a professional level) is that it'll forearm a business against:
1) Ending up with a website that is going nowhere in the search engines due to structure or design limitations (in my experience a pretty common occurrence).
2) Employing a dodgy seo company who could well do more harm than good to their website (I'm seeing more new enquiries from people who are better informed about seo which empowers them to make informed decisions, than previously).
Seo is one of the fundamentals to the success of a website and is something that should be taken into consideration at the planning stages of a website which will hopefully prevent costly (both in time and money) mistakes being made in the building stages of the website.
Last thoughts...
1] If you've got the time available to learn seo for yourself then jump in and roll your sleeves up, it'll cost you nothing except your time and, if the time you spend reading up on seo would otherwise be spent vegging in front of the telly then at least your time is working ultimately in your own business interests.
2] If you don't get it or flop, or even get cheesed of with things then yes, pay someone to do it but that doesn't necessarily mean a full blown seo campaign needs implementing. Trim your keywords down and trim your costs accordingly. As with everything, start small and work up when the money starts rolling in.
3] Can non techy people learn seo? Absolutely! How many businesses will have experienced improved rankings (rankings that have resulted in an increase in revenue) simply because they hung around this seo forum or other seo forums, read, asked questions and applied the advice, 5, 25 or thousands? I bet it's in the thousands.
Seo is not rocket science! It's far easier than it's made out to be (very often misrepresented to businesses as some sort of mystic science ) and is freely available to those that have a desire to succeed no matter how tough things are. You also don't need to be an expert at seo to get something out of it. It is entirely possible to start off small, pick off the low lying fruit and grow in expertise whilst seo-ing your site.
I also completely agree that seo is not necessarily a standalone solution to online business, especially new businesses, you need to implement other forms of marketing (including ppc) to ensure that your website stands the best chance. I believe that ppc and seo should go hand in hand as an online marketing strategy whilst you should also be exploring off line marketing ideas as well. Seo is certainly not a quick fix and you need to have in place other, more instant means of attaining visitors for your website whilst waiting for the organic rankings to show.
Just my 2C
Ray
Ps. Thanks for the kind words
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depends what you have most of...
time, & trust in a teacher ...
or ...
money, & trust in a supplier ...
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It took me about 4 years semi-full time to be able to get top rankings reliably.
I've found that SEO by itself is simple. Several things make it time consuming for a beginniner to learn:
- Impatience - it seems to work very much against initial success in SEO. I don't think impatient personalities can learn SEO, ever. But most people who put in effort want to see the result of that fairly quickly...
- Misleading pitches - products and services that secretly play on your impatience or desire to avoid tedium
- The disconnect between cause and effect (what EXACTLY did I do to get that top 10? Was it the title tag? Was is it linking? If so which links? The 1000 directory blast? The social bookmarking thingie I ordered?).
- Fear, inhibiting your desire to experiment which is the best way to learn IMO (if I try the 10,000 directory blast, will my site will be *banned*?)
- Conflicting information (links really don't matter / links matter enormously)
- One size fits all statements Examples: links are all important; on-page optimization is all important; you must have a big site; you must have articles on your site; you must have great content; SEO takes 3 months to show results, and so on. None of these are universally true. Any of these will depend on your particular market and the slice you are trying to take.
---
Could a newcomer learn SEO successfully in a short time? Yes I think so.
My suggestion would be for them to go to a safe place like SiteBuildIt and commit their faith to it; commit to not listen to anything/anyone else about SEO for 6 - 8 months while working through the course.
That could work for sure.
Also, it seems that SEO doesn't fit every personality. I've noticed that people who are naturally good at sales say they hate learning SEO for some reason. But a lot of those people are better at PPC.
Luke
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I completely agree, I've been tryin to develop a website to help newcomers try some DIY SEO after I (being completely self-taught) did it quite sucessfully for my other site.
I hope poeple wil take a look at www,free-diy-seo.com just to give me some feedback.
Cheers
I hope poeple wil take a look at www,free-diy-seo.com just to give me some feedback.
Cheers
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webworx
There are many advantages to doing your SEO in house. I may be biased due to the company I work for but my advice would be to invest in some SEO training. My company offers a two day, one to one SEO training course for £795. The course will teach you everything you need to be able to SEO your own website. We have also broken SEO down in seperate modules such as keyword research, onsite and offsite, there are 5 altogether. This gives you the chance to maybe have the onsite work done by a professional company and learn how to do the offsite promotional work inhouse. If you just wanted to do the offsite optimisation course it would be £250 for a half day one to one workshop. Have a look at our website and see what you think.
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DIY seo has got to be the only way when your starting off the website. At this time you have more time on your hands and can mess around with all the nitty gritty things required. Once your business takes of, you have less time on your hands and may forget about the SEO stuff. This could result in less recognition for your website and could bring the whole business down again.
Therefore once a certain stage is reached and the business can afford SEO costs its probably worthwhile to pay for it.
You are better of paying someone for SEO working than paying the tax man from hard earned profits.
Therefore once a certain stage is reached and the business can afford SEO costs its probably worthwhile to pay for it.
You are better of paying someone for SEO working than paying the tax man from hard earned profits.
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I disagree. If you are building a business you should hire in the skills you don't have, be they SEO or any other service. This allows you to concentrate on delivering your business plan.
An exception might be someone who is playing at starting a business by doing it in their spare time with no start up budget.
d
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