How would I buy a domain from a potential scammer safely?

[TheBigCheese]

Hi guys

I'm looking at purchasing a .com to go with my .co.uk domain and currently it's being held by a guy calling himself Jefe Vargas.

He calls himself a "domain name volunteer" taking expired domains that have been put back on the market before they are taken by big companies...rubbish...he's just trying to make a quick buck, but fair enough if that's how he makes his money.

This is an example of the holding site he uses and he has been emailing me offering me the .com.

Unfortunately I really don't know enough about this stuff to make an informed decision so I'm in a bit of a muddle...

Everything about it reads like a scam to me...

He says he is based in Panama (it's hardly down the road is it)

He lies about why he has got the domains (I suppose some people are taken in)

He is asking quite a lot ($197) for the name.

He says it will take 24-48 hours to transfer the details to me.

He says he offers a 30 day money back guarantee (yeah right)

BUT...and it's a big one...

He appears to use Paypal, so if there was a problem would I be able to open a dispute and get my money back?

I can't find anything about him on Google with regards to rip offs or scams which I suppose is a good sign and I wondered if anyone could offer any suggestions about the safest way of getting the domain?

I have considered Sedo but their fees seem very high.

My main thoughts are:
Tell him I will only deal with him if it's done through Sedo.co.uk

Tell him I will only deal with him if we use another domain broker - I
would be open to suggestions of good ones!!!

Take the chance and use Paypal IF it's a genuine Paypal link and only IF I would be covered by Paypal guarantees to get my money back if he doesn't transfer the domain name details to me.

I am rather bemused with it and would welcome any suggestions from those in the know as to the best course of action.


Many thanks in advance

 

[ozbon]

Personally, I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole.

If you really need the .com , go through ICANN (if memory serves) who are the domain adjudicators. You've established a relevant cause for getting the domain as it's the same as the .co.uk one, whereas this other person is pretty obviously a domain-squatter.

It can take time to get the domain, but make it an ICANN thing rather than paying a scumbag.

 

[Mpg]

I have just got my .com to go with my .co.uk from snapnames, Its like ebay for domain names.

But without the risk of being scammed.

Check on there for the domain and who.is

 

[TheBigCheese]

If you really need the .com , go through ICANN (if memory serves) who are the domain adjudicators. You've established a relevant cause for getting the domain as it's the same as the .co.uk one, whereas this other person is pretty obviously a domain-squatter.

It can take time to get the domain, but make it an ICANN thing rather than paying a scumbag.

I can do that???

What sort of things would I say to them?

And how would it be dealt with, I mean the squatter (and he certainly is, he has over 1900 domains he's sitting on!), has paid to take over the name.

Would it be an expensive process? It's a totally new concept to me.

I have just got my .com to go with my .co.uk from snapnames, Its like ebay for domain names.

But without the risk of being scammed.

Check on there for the domain and who.is

I have checked the Whois, and he does own it, Snapnames looks like it does the same thing as Sedo, I wouldn't want to run the risk of putting it in an auction though, and risk the same thing with someone else or the price going up.

Many thanks.

 

[mattsaw]

Using a service like https://www.escrow.com is the only way to ensure you don't get scammed. (Or Sedo as you mention, but they charge a lot more)

If you really need the .com , go through ICANN (if memory serves) who are the domain adjudicators. You've established a relevant cause for getting the domain as it's the same as the .co.uk one, whereas this other person is pretty obviously a domain-squatter.

You won't stand a chance going through a domain adjudication, unless there is an actual trademark infringment then simply having the .co.uk version of a domain won't give you the right to the .com. I'll also cost a whole lot more than $200 that this guy is asking.

 

[MH-Nick]

Going to ICANN about this won't work. ICANN do have a process (UDRP) which resolves issues like domain squatting, but only if the squatted domain is being used to profit off a trademarked domain. Example: Game.co.uk (I know its a .uk and not a .com - but they follow similar rules) fought a long legal battle because the owner was profitting by running his own online game console shop, whilst the trademark belonging to the company GAME was being used. Had he used the site as a eg. gaming forum, he probably would have won the case. And even if you are able to use ICANN/UDRP you'll still have to pay several thousand for the case.

I would stick to your original thoughts, use a domain broker like Sedo, or Escrow. If he doesn't agree to this then its likely to be an insecure deal. Offer to pay the extra charges, as $200 for a .com is actually quite a good price. I enquired about the .com of my domain and was told to put an offer in the low 5 figures. If only I was in your position!

 

[TheBigCheese]

Many thanks for the replies, I guess my options are narrowing down, I've learnt that Paypal doesn't cover virtual goods or services and as there is no trademark dispute a domain broker is the all or nothing approach.

Can someone just clarify how they work for me please...

Is it basically, the domain seller 'gives' the domain to the broker who holds onto it, I pay the broker, they pass the registration details etc. on to me and the money (minus a cut) to the seller?

How are domain details / login details transferred from one party to another? I've never had need to do it before so I'm a bit clueless with the process.

Finally, are Escrow a good reliable company to use? Would the be helpful if there was a problem for any reason?

Many thanks for your replies

 

[DHFwebdesign]

I'm looking at purchasing a .com to go with my .co.uk domain and currently it's being held by a guy calling himself Jefe Vargas.


He appears to use Paypal, so if there was a problem would I be able to open a dispute and get my money back?

PayPal would be unlikely to offer buyer protection in this instance. The buyer protection is largely aimed at their Ebay market, with a small spin off into the general market. If there was a problem, it would be at Paypals discretion to offer a refund - so i wouldn't bank on it.

As previously mentioned, try a whois search to see if the name and contact details are real. If the guy is legit, then he shouldn't have a problem using a brokerage (you would have to cover the extra fees).

The bottom line is, if he is legit, and if he stands to make the same money either way, then he shouldn't have any problem selling to you via a brokerage in my opinion.

on a side note, this is my first post on these forums, it's good to be aboard.

 

[Tom McClelland]

You might try paying using Paypal, but don't use your paypal account, enter credit card details into the Paypal "make a payment" page instead. Reputable vendors will permit this approach, and if the deal goes sour you just go back to your credit card company and say that you didn't get the goods. In our limited experience credit card companies will always side with buyers in such a case and they don't appear to even spend any time investigating the facts of the case. They just reverse the money back from Paypal, and Paypal just takes it from the vendor (with scarcely a "by your leave")

 

[teadrinker]

Hi there, I just paid him for this website - without googling him first which was a bit stupid. I figured he must have it - otherwise he couldn't have posted something on the homepage but he is SO annoying!

Anyway, I took a risk but paid through paypal and used a credit card for extra security. He says I will get the login in 24 - 48 hours. I'm pretty sceptical that I will get my hands on it - so you might as well wait and see what happens with mine - or feel free to email me directly. I actually don't really need the .com for my site so it's annoying that it expired and I missed it! Do you know when yours expires? You can find that out pretty easily - I can't imagine he keeps buying them again year after year?

 

[teadrinker]

PS When it went to paypal his name just came up as "JR" - does not sound very legit to me.

 

[teadrinker]

PPS His name, address and phone number (of course which may not be legit) are all available online

 

[ftp]

Has the original poster had an update on how the transfer went?

I had this same Jefe Vargas person contact myself. The means of communication seemed fraudulent. The first email I got was the following:

Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 14:34:54 -0600 [12/12/2009 03:34:54 PM EST]
From: Private Domain Auctions <privatedomainauctions --removed-->
To: --removed--
Subject: Auction results for --removed--
Headers: Show All Headers
The private domain auction for --removed-- has ended.

The domain name was successfully acquired by:

Name: Jefe Vargas
Email: --removed--

This information is provided as a service to the community.

I wasn't a part of any auction for the domain name (I run thewicca . ca) so it seemed odd that I would get a notification. It wasn't until later that I noticed that the sending email account was a gmail address. A credible domain auction company would obviously not use a gmail account. This was the lead-in to the next unsolicited email from "Jefe Vargas."

Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 11:34:38 -0600 [12/15/2009 12:34:38 PM EST]
From: Jefe Vargas <jefe --removed-->
To: --removed--
Subject: --removed-- for sale
Headers: Show All Headers
Hi,

I am the new owner of the domain name --removed--,
and I recently decided to put it up for sale.

Please contact me with any questions or offers.

Best regards,

Jefe Vargas
--removed--

We had some back-and-forth correspondence and he was willing to accept what would normally be a very low price for a domain name to resell it to me. I did a little research and found this article here, but no update. I've since had some obvious 'boiler plate' emails encouraging me to buy the domain with odd stories like having had a heated debate with his wife the previous night before about selling the domain for so cheap. Frankly, I'm doubtful. Maybe he's just looking to flip a website by registering it then contacting related websites, but his means are at best deceptive.

I've also noticed the following text repeated on the Internet that comes from "Jefe Vargas."

Jefe Vargas is a domain name volunteer who registers domain names the moment they expire to protect them from falling into the hands of domain hoarding companies. These entities register and own hundreds of thousands of domains and NEVER sell any of them. Instead, they put up ads to make a profit. I'm sure you've seen such domains in the past: no useful content, just ads. Jefe Vargas has been in business since March 2008 and has provided his services to hundreds of satisfied clients.

This text is on domains owned by this person as well as another website that had the exact same text purporting to be reviewing his "friend" "Jefe Vargas."



I'd appreciate any other updates on this person.


(Note: I had to remove domain name references as the website here doesn't allow domain names to be included in emails until you've made 15 posts or more)

 

[ftp]

A little more follow-up on Jefe Vargas. His websites refer telephone contact to (641) 715-3900 with an extension number. This phone number belongs to a company that provides anonymous voice mail (simplevoicebox . com). There is no address listed for Jefe Vargas and being that the phone number provided goes to a 3rd party provider that provides a wall of anonymity, I am currently very cautious. I've emailed back to Vargas for a phone number and a verifiable address to determine if he is legitimate or not and will update here when I get more information.

 

[jefevargas]

Thanks for the feedback. I will gladly accept Escrow.com or Sedo's escrow service for any of my domains.

Regarding teadrinker's order, I figured out who he was due to the timestamps of his posts, and I'm posting the order log below. It would be nice if he could confirm receipt of the domain here.

ORDER LOG - xxxxxxxxxxxxxx.com

11/4/2009 5:14 PM - PayPal payment received
11/4/2009 5:17 PM - Email sent to client, asking him to open domain registrar account
11/4/2009 5:40 PM - Client sends account details
11/4/2009 5:43 PM - Domain transferred to client's account
11/4/2009 5:43 PM - Confirmation and thank you email sent to client
11/4/2009 5:52 PM - Client accepts domain in his account
11/4/2009 5:57 PM - Thank you and good luck email sent by client

(All times are EST)

 

[teadrinker]

I paid him for my domain and it went through fine. I can't guarantee your experience, and I don't think his approach does him any favours, but he transferred the domain to me within 24 hours. Like I said in my previous post, there's not really any benefit to him to buy lots of domain names and then keep them without being able to do anything.

 

[sands1967]

Personally, I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole.

If you really need the .com , go through ICANN (if memory serves) who are the domain adjudicators. You've established a relevant cause for getting the domain as it's the same as the .co.uk one NO HE HASN'T whereas this other person is pretty obviously a domain-squatter. SAYS WHO?

It can take time to get the domain, but make it an ICANN thing rather than paying a scumbag.

Just Clueless, for someone in webdesign i can see that you have never had to buy back domains for clients - there is no reference to trademarking or brand ownership and to be honest it's a pretty worthless domain (except perhaps to the OP with the .co.uk - which is the real reason 'Jeff Vargas' is willing to sell it for a low price! - who else would want it?

Also why is someone that buys and sells a domain name a scumbag? I have no idea who Jeff Vargas is but there are hundreds of small domain 'sellers' i would question why he has so little info but you make a huge leap to start name calling.

You can never protect yourself 100% particuarly in a filed you know nothing about, Escrow seems a reasonable compromise. A third party holds your payment until you confirm you have recieved the product/service then they release your money to the seller. Sometimes you have to go on gut feel, if you don't feel comfortable don't do it but £150 is not a lot and if you really want it you need to balance the pros and cons. That said you might be better to put that towards a refresh of your website or even some PPC ads?

A simpler question to the OP might be 'why do you feel you need the .com?" if you don't need it (ie the .co.uk is working fine for you and you are a UK based business then you probably don't need it) That said i always buy the .com if it is available when i reg .co.uk for a client if it is available (Ozbon - i put a 301 redirect on in case you're interested

 

[Optegris]

Thanks for the feedback. I will gladly accept Escrow.com or Sedo's escrow service for any of my domains.

Regarding teadrinker's order, I figured out who he was due to the timestamps of his posts, and I'm posting the order log below. It would be nice if he could confirm receipt of the domain here.

ORDER LOG - xxxxxxxxxxxxxx.com

11/4/2009 5:14 PM - PayPal payment received
11/4/2009 5:17 PM - Email sent to client, asking him to open domain registrar account
11/4/2009 5:40 PM - Client sends account details
11/4/2009 5:43 PM - Domain transferred to client's account
11/4/2009 5:43 PM - Confirmation and thank you email sent to client
11/4/2009 5:52 PM - Client accepts domain in his account
11/4/2009 5:57 PM - Thank you and good luck email sent by client

(All times are EST)

Good on you. Looks like everything was transferred over although I would be a bit more transparent in who you are.

The fact that you don't have a problem with escow says a lot because both parties are protected then..

 

[TheBigCheese]

Hi everyone, OP here. I didn't realise this thread was still going! I got an IM about it the other day which I replied to. To answer your questions, yes everything has transferred to my account, the WHOIS is now in my name. Jefe was quick to reply to my questions and everything went smoothly. I was very suspicious due to the means of contacting and the wording but it seems to have worked out as far as I am aware!