"Why I shed bikini for niqab

AwayGamesTravel

Free Member
Dec 16, 2007
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I was absolutely fascinated whilst reading this. Seems like this person has undergone a complete change. What do you guys make of this?

Why I Shed Bikini for Niqab

- By Sara Bokker

The New Symbol of Women’s Liberation

I am an American woman who was born in the midst of America’s “Heartland.” I grew up, just like any other girl, being fixated with the glamour of life in “the big city.” Eventually, I moved to Florida and on to South Beach of Miami, a hotspot for those seeking the “glamorous life.” Naturally, I did what most average Western girls do. I focused on my appearance and appeal, basing my self-worth on how much attention I got from others. I worked out religiously and became a personal trainer, acquired an upscale waterfront residence, became a regular “exhibiting” beach-goer and was able to attain a “living-in-style” kind of life.

Years went by, only to realize that my scale of self-fulfillment and happiness slid down the more I progressed in my “feminine appeal.” I was a slave to fashion. I was a hostage to my looks.

As the gap continued to progressively widen between my self-fulfillment and lifestyle, I sought refuge in escapes from alcohol and parties to meditation, activism, and alternative religions, only to have the little gap widen to what seemed like a valley. I eventually realized it all was merely a pain killer rather than an effective remedy.

By now it was September 11, 2001. As I witnessed the ensuing barrage on Islam, Islamic values and culture, and the infamous declaration of the “new crusade,” I started to notice something called Islam. Up until that point, all I had associated with Islam was women covered in “tents,” wife beaters, harems, and a world of terrorism.

As a feminist libertarian, and an activist who was pursuing a better world for all, my path crossed with that of another activist who was already at the lead of indiscriminately furthering causes of reform and justice for all. I joined in the ongoing campaigns of my new mentor which included, at the time, election reform and civil rights, among others. Now my new activism was fundamentally different. Instead of “selectively” advocating justice only to some, I learned that ideals such as justice, freedom, and respect are meant to be and are essentially universal, and that own good and common good are not in conflict. For the first time, I knew what “all people are created equal” really means. But most importantly, I learned that it only takes faith to see the world as one and to see the unity in creation.

One day I came across a book that is negatively stereotyped in the West--The Holy Qur’an. I was first attracted by the style and approach of the Qur’an, and then intrigued by its outlook on existence, life, creation, and the relationship between Creator and creation. I found the Qur’an to be a very insightful address to heart and soul without the need for an interpreter or pastor.

Eventually I hit a moment of truth: my new-found self-fulfilling activism was nothing more than merely embracing a faith called Islam where I could live in peace as a “functional” Muslim.

I bought a beautiful long gown and head cover resembling the Muslim woman’s dress code and I walked down the same streets and neighborhoods where only days earlier I had walked in my shorts, bikini, or “elegant” western business attire. Although the people, the faces, and the shops were all the same, one thing was remarkably distinct--I was not--nor was the peace at being a woman I experienced for the very first time. I felt as if the chains had been broken and I was finally free. I was delighted with the new looks of wonder on people’s faces in place of the looks of a hunter watching his prey I had once sought. Suddenly a weight had been lifted off my shoulders. I no longer spent all my time consumed with shopping, makeup, getting my hair done, and working out. Finally, I was free.

Of all places, I found my Islam at the heart of what some call “the most scandalous place on earth,” which makes it all the more dear and special.

While content with Hijab I became curious about Niqab, seeing an increasing number of Muslim women in it. I asked my Muslim husband, whom I married after I reverted to Islam, whether I should wear Niqab or just settle for the Hijab I was already wearing. My husband simply advised me that he believes Hijab is mandatory in Islam while Niqab is not. At the time, my Hijab consisted of head scarf that covered all my hair except for my face, and a loose long black gown called “Abaya” that covered all my body from neck to toe.

A year-and-a-half passed, and I told my husband I wanted to wear Niqab. My reason, this time, was that I felt it would be more pleasing to Allah, the Creator, increasing my feeling of peace at being more modest. He supported my decision and took me to buy an “Isdaal,” a loose black gown that covers from head to toe, and Niqab, which covers all my head and face except for my eyes.

Soon enough, news started breaking about politicians, Vatican clergymen, libertarians, and so-called human rights and freedom activists condemning Hijab at times, and Niqab at others as being oppressive to women, an obstacle to social integration, and more recently, as an Egyptian official called it--“a sign of backwardness.”

I find it to be a blatant hypocrisy when Western governments and so-called human rights groups rush to defend woman’s rights when some governments impose a certain dress code on women, yet such “freedom fighters” look the other way when women are being deprived of their rights, work, and education just because they choose to exercise their right to wear Niqab or Hijab. Today, women in Hijab or Niqab are being increasingly barred from work and education not only under totalitarian regimes such as in Tunisia, Morocco, and Egypt, but also in Western democracies such as France, Holland, and Britain.

Today I am still a feminist, but a Muslim feminist, who calls on Muslim women to assume their responsibilities in providing all the support they can for their husbands to be good Muslims. To raise their children as upright Muslims so they may be beacons of light for all humanity once again. To enjoin good--any good--and to forbid evil--any evil. To speak righteousness and to speak up against all ills. To fight for our right to wear Niqab or Hijab and to please our Creator whichever way we chose. But just as importantly to carry our experience with Niqab or Hijab to fellow women who may never have had the chance to understand what wearing Niqab or Hijab means to us and why do we, so dearly, embrace it.

Most of the women I know wearing Niqab are Western reverts, some of whom are not even married. Others wear Niqab without full support of either family or surroundings. What we all have in common is that it is the personal choice of each and every one of us, which none of us is willing to surrender.

Willingly or unwillingly, women are bombarded with styles of “dressing-in-little-to-nothing” virtually in every means of communication everywhere in the world. As an ex non-Muslim, I insist on women’s right to equally know about Hijab, its virtues, and the peace and happiness it brings to a woman’s life as it did to mine. Yesterday, the bikini was the symbol of my liberty, when in actuality it only liberated me from my spirituality and true value as a respectable human being.

I couldn’t be happier to shed my bikini in South Beach and the “glamorous” Western lifestyle to live in peace with my Creator and enjoy living among fellow humans as a worthy person. It is why I choose to wear Niqab, and why I will die defending my inalienable right to wear it.

Today, Niqab is the new symbol of woman’s liberation to find who she is, what her purpose is, and the type of relation she chooses to have with her Creator.


To women who surrender to the ugly stereotype against the Islamic modesty of Hijab, I say: You don’t know what you are missing.

To you, the ill-fated corrupting conquerors of civilization, so-called crusaders, I say: BRING IT ON.

Sara Bokker is a former actress/model/fitness instructor and activist. Currently, Sara is Director of Communications at “The March For Justice,” a co-founder of “The Global Sisters Network,” and producer of the infamous “Shock & Awe Gallery©.”


Source: http://www.weneedtounite.com/shed.htm
 
The mere fact that she has to write and publish it indicates to me that she is simply looking to justify it to herself as much as anyone else.

The world but be crap if we all liked the same things!
 
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There are some mornings, when on the school run, I'd quite happily opt for the Niqab - but I call those days "bad hair days". ;)
 
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I have to say it harks of one of those chain letter things you get.

The thing is you will never see a pure balance because no one will write about the day a bikini or thong or padded bra or wonder bra liberated them or how practical sports underwear is....
 
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Years went by, only to realize that my scale of self-fulfillment and happiness slid down the more I progressed in my “feminine appeal.” I was a slave to fashion. I was a hostage to my looks.
hostage? interesting wording - subliminal message?
slave? - personal choice by the sounds of it. No one goes into modelling on the "off chance". I wish I was a slave to fashion... waaayyy to expensive though.
As the gap continued to progressively widen between my self-fulfillment and lifestyle, I sought refuge in escapes from alcohol and parties to meditation, activism, and alternative religions,
Alcohol can make you want to change religions. You could of course try religionsupermarket.com for a comparison. (link bait opportunity) :eek:
By now it was September 11, 2001. As I witnessed the ensuing barrage on Islam, Islamic values and culture, and the infamous declaration of the “new crusade,” I started to notice something called Islam.,
Yes love...we all did.....

But oddly we didn't think about joining up!

Up until that point, all I had associated with Islam was women covered in “tents,” wife beaters, harems, and a world of terrorism. ,
Yep..that pretty much sums it up. FWIW: A local muslim "leader" that I know advocates violence and seems to think it's OK to chop heads off.


One day I came across a book that is negatively stereotyped in the West--The Holy Qur’an. I was first attracted by the style and approach of the Qur’an, and then intrigued by its outlook on existence, life, creation, and the relationship between Creator and creation. I found the Qur’an to be a very insightful address to heart and soul without the need for an interpreter or pastor.
well you need to learn more if you only just heard of the qur'an. If it's so blatently obvious - why has it been interpretted so many times in so many ways and so many theories about it's meaning been written?

A year-and-a-half passed, and I told my husband I wanted to wear Niqab. My reason, this time, was that I felt it would be more pleasing to Allah, the Creator, increasing my feeling of peace at being more modest. He supported my decision and took me to buy an “Isdaal,” a loose black gown that covers from head to toe, and Niqab, which covers all my head and face except for my eyes.
what was the reason last time? I forget..but clearly you waited a long time to decide that Allah would like it :|
So if Allah is the creator he would want to hide his creations?

I find it to be a blatant hypocrisy when Western governments and so-called human rights groups rush to defend woman’s rights when some governments impose a certain dress code on women, yet such “freedom fighters” look the other way when women are being deprived of their rights, work, and education just because they choose to exercise their right to wear Niqab or Hijab. Today, women in Hijab or Niqab are being increasingly barred from work and education not only under totalitarian regimes such as in Tunisia, Morocco, and Egypt, but also in Western democracies such as France, Holland, and Britain.
So it would be ok for my blonde wife to stroll around Afganistan in a bikini?
I'm sure there would be no malice,... hey, can we build a Catholic church on the highstreet?

Today I am still a feminist, but a Muslim feminist, who calls on Muslim women to assume their responsibilities in providing all the support they can for their husbands to be good Muslims.
Good... go and help all the Muslim women who are repressed by their husbands/ leaders and cultures.

I can't be bothered to write any more about this piece of cr*p.
Thanks for posting it though :)
 
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I see what u are saying sally and I'm not in a position to know being a bloke.
But perception is, and has always been an issue for anyone when it comes to forming impressions about people.

Do you not think that wearing something out of the ordinary may also make people form perceptions about a person?

For example...a woman stops wearing low cut tops and skirts because she thinks the perception of her is 'bimbo-ish' (sorry it's a friday!).
She then opts for wearing a hijab and the perception has gone from bimbo to religious loony!
 
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She then opts for wearing a hijab and the perception has gone from bimbo to religious loony!

Yes of course we all have perceptions based on dress but what I was trying to explain is that sometimes we need to discuss to break down those perceptions and it is about time we all realised that who a person is is not determined by how they dress.

Some people that wear niqab are religious fanatics, I avoid them whenever I can and some are ordinary women that choose to dress that way because of their faith.

I am just saddened that the actions of a minority of fanatics now make people suspicious of me or leap to the conclusion that I would carry a bomb to kill innocent people.
 
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its just the differences in society and culture.

historically it was a sign of subserviance and oppression but thats changing i see that the arab world is going to let women drive which is progress.

As to the bikini arguement thats because in terms of freedom and progress the west is typically more ahead in terms of equal eqaulity and liberation (no it aint perfect but its getting there)

Some women like thongs, some like brown shoes some men like cars some like books its the expression and confidence in every choice people make that shows the true faith and belief. By extowing the virtures of one choice over another is tantamount to being in a pull pit and preaching.

I for one will wear, eat, think and believe what I want and will search out alternatives if I want. I dont preach to and dont expect to be preached to. Nor should my wife be preached to......she is self conscious enough bless her.
 
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Yes of course we all have perceptions based on dress but what I was trying to explain is that sometimes we need to discuss to break down those perceptions and it is about time we all realised that who a person is is not determined by how they dress.
.
I disagree... try to not judge the lads on the corner dressed in their "hoodies" or the group of skinheads walking towards you..or that guy with the mowhawk and his girlfriend with the 54 lip peircings.

Faith has nothing to do with it. If you don't want to be judged - conform.

I once thought it would be pretty cool to have a pink mowhawk until it was pointed out to me that I'd probably never get a job.

If I walked down Bagdad highstreet in my speedos and sarong I reckon I would be judged. :p

Not understanding these basic principles of the society in which we live is what causes tensions - ignorance is another word for it.
 
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I have removed a post from this thread due to its offensive nature. I'm sure the person didn't mean to cause offense but we need to remember that something one person perceives to be a lighthearted joke can deeply offend the next person.

Obviously the forum is a place for opinions and lively debate but I just want to make it clear that racism in any form, whether intended or not, will not be tolerated.

If anyone has any concerns or questions about this please send me a message.

Anyway, sorry to get all serious on you all! :)

Paula
 
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historically it was a sign of subserviance and oppression but thats changing i see that the arab world is going to let women drive which is progress.

Do you mean it was perceived as a sign of oppression? I first came over here with a view to liberating women, those poor oppressed downtrodden women that had to dress that way and serve men. It took them about 10 seconds to tell me to bugger off with my stupid western attitudes. That was when I took a shocked step backward and began to learn about them, instead of judging them by what I had been taught back home.

The burka on the other hand is a sign of oppression and I have never met a single Muslim woman that would choose to wear it, if not forced to do so.

There are so many misconceptions about life over here. Only Saudi stop women from driving and they get 10/10 on the looney scale from me. Believe it or not Iraq was a very progressive society for women but of course the war has sent them backwards and women are again second class citizens (thanks Mr Bush & Blair that was a great help).

As to the bikini arguement thats because in terms of freedom and progress the west is typically more ahead in terms of equal eqaulity and liberation (no it aint perfect but its getting there)

Again that is your perception, mine is entirely different having lived both lives. I feel much more liberated here than I ever did in the 'free and progressive west'. For a start I don't have to worry about tan lines or if I wobble in certain areas.

I agree people should not preach, from any camp.

One of the greatest misconceptions about how Muslim women dress is that of WHY? Everyone thinks it is because the Quran says so - yes? Wrong, all the Quran says is to dress modestly and that women should cover their bosom. That leaves a lot of scope.

One of the factors in choosing how we dress is about our marriages. Only my husband should ever see me in a state of undress and only I should ever see him that way. It makes our personal life very special and 'personal'. It may not be everyones cup of tea but it suits us. That does not mean we have a political agenda or make bombs in our spare time.
 
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I have removed a post from this thread due to its offensive nature. I'm sure the person didn't mean to cause offense but we need to remember that something one person perceives to be a lighthearted joke can deeply offend the next person.

As the proverbial "next person" I am offended by the whole thread actually (maybe you can tell in my posts) - Can't you just delete the whole thread?

My thoughts are that it has no place on a business forum - even in the time out section.
 
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Faith has nothing to do with it. If you don't want to be judged - conform.

So what are you suggesting, that in order to be accepted by you I must dress as you decide acceptable?

If so, I find that quite funny because it is exactly the attitude of the religious nutters that would attack you for wearing your speedos in Bagdad. :p
 
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As the proverbial "next person" I am offended by the whole thread actually (maybe you can tell in my posts) - Can't you just delete the whole thread?

My thoughts are that it has no place on a business forum - even in the time out section.

The Time Out section includes an extremely wide range of topics which are non business related. A quick look on the front page of topics shows it covers everything from dogs to male strippers. I cant see that this thread is offensive in itself, or any more 'off topic' business wise to any others. If you like you can send me a PM with your thoughts.
 
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So what are you suggesting, that in order to be accepted by you I must dress as you decide acceptable?

If so, I find that quite funny because it is exactly the attitude of the religious nutters that would attack you for wearing your speedos in Bagdad. :p
I accept everyone tall, short, gay, straight, black, white, muslim, christian, jew, so you can wear what you want and do what you want.

Unfortunately my broadmindedness would not generally be accepted globally as the 'norm'. If it were then I'd like to see a McDonalds opened in Bagdad with topless staff.

Edit> No problem Paula, I'll get over it - or into it :)
However thanks for your reply.

James.
 
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After 9/11 we all saw the images of the Arab World dancing in the streets and burning the US flag. Or was that just the radicals and all the normal ones who condemed it just stayed at home. This to me is the true image of Islam. Most of them hate the West and everything it stands for.

If I had seen them out on the streets burning effigies of Osama then I am sure my views would be the opposite to those I have today.

Simon
 
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this is a post i made in october to a 9/11 question...

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Ah a good old bit of blame-storming.

The issue is not so much an issue of who is to blame. Glass houses and throwing stones for all parties spring to mind on that one.

To me its more the issue of how 2 societies are so far out of sync in terms of social/morale/theological/ideological development. Neither view is ultimately right; the pretence of religion to recruit and empower people to further the goals of world domination for either the western world or the others are quite frankly shocking.

Real terror is not the atrocities that happen but that there is an ideology out there that drives this foward both above the line and in underground circles. The belief that by large scale killings of people that by and large aren't thinking religion nor concerned with the greater world at large but living a straight forward life is wrong.

To use texts (bible/Koran) that are ambiguous and open to interpretation (mis) and are very hard to relate to the way that socity has evolved now creates an area for exploitation and the creation of war. Western governments have used terror as a way to control and circumvent some liberty protection afford to the "normal" citizen. Terrorists have used the terror to recruit, empower and drive forward their cause.

Common sense apparently isnt that common.....nor is global common sense.

There is so much to say on this topic but alas.

To answer the question I dont think the value is in aportioning blame because hindsight is always 20 - 20. As pointed out its not color, cred, wealth, nationality or beliefs that caused this. It is the insightment of one man using religion as a tool for war mongering and control.

------------------------------------------------------------------
 
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When it comes to the crunch all religion is used for very little else.

Very true. Although that post was just to show how the differences reflect through all aspects of lives and generalisations not just dress or oppressed societies but in the way that the cultural nuances are far from finite issues or stereo types.
 
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After 9/11 we all saw the images of the Arab World dancing in the streets and burning the US flag. Or was that just the radicals and all the normal ones who condemed it just stayed at home. This to me is the true image of Islam. Most of them hate the West and everything it stands for.

If I had seen them out on the streets burning effigies of Osama then I am sure my views would be the opposite to those I have today.

Simon

May I ask if you are a hunt supporter? I only ask because we saw the protests against the ban, the thousands of people in the streets blowing horns and flag waving. Did they represent your views? They most certainly did not represent mine, nor the estimated 85+% of UK citizens opposed to hunting. However it was on my tv screen so it must be the views and attitudes of the whole UK population - yes?

Yes most people here hate the US government because of it's foreign policies and the billions in armourments it pours into Israel. Interesting to note that the $28 million it promised for basic medical supplies and trauma relief for Palestinian children was vetoed by congress. The 151,000 dead Iraqi civilians between March 2003 and June 2006 probably don't help either.

I do not deny that there was an attitude of 'have some of your own medicine' after 9/11 which left a nasty taste in my mouth but I also find it impossible to defend the US and UK actions over here.
 
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Dotty is right I am at my home in Egypt.

I am watching the papers and tv news to see what is happening with thousands of Palestinians pouring out of their open prison and over the border to get basic food supplies and fuel. It feels a little more personal when you are this close up.
 
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May I ask if you are a hunt supporter? I only ask because we saw the protests against the ban, the thousands of people in the streets blowing horns and flag waving. Did they represent your views? They most certainly did not represent mine, nor the estimated 85+% of UK citizens opposed to hunting. However it was on my tv screen so it must be the views and attitudes of the whole UK population - yes?

If you only comment on half the storry the picure is skewed. What I saw with hunting was that one week thousands took to the streets in protest FOR hunting and the next week thousands took to the streets AGAINST hunting. This was of course before it became OUTLAWED. So that gives you a ballanced view.

We are also talking about animals here and not humans and my personal view is AGAINST hunting. However, I would never try to compare the attrocities of 9/11 with a moral dilema like hunting. Which at the time was actually legal. Unlike flying 2 passenger jets full of families into a place of work also full of families. That's just pure evil driven by pure evil.

Now, forgive my complete ignorance on the matter but I did not see one single Muslim/Arab/Islamist take to the streets with an opposite view to the TERROR attacks on the US. I saw what was reported like everyone else. Being close to the people in the region Sally I suppose you saw the protests against Osama Bin Laden that didn't get reported. Or were there NONE?

Simon
 
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However, I would never try to compare the attrocities of 9/11 with a moral dilema like hunting.

Hi Simon

I wasn't trying to compare what happened on 9/11 to the issue of hunting. I was demonstrating how reporting of anything is just a glimpse of an issue and very often not the full story. Read below and you will see what I mean - how do I know about all of these things but you do not? Because they are not reported in western media, that goes against the 'Islam is the root of all evil' propaganda!

Now, forgive my complete ignorance on the matter but I did not see one single Muslim/Arab/Islamist take to the streets with an opposite view to the TERROR attacks on the US. I saw what was reported like everyone else. Being close to the people in the region Sally I suppose you saw the protests against Osama Bin Laden that didn't get reported. Or were there NONE?

I am so pleased you asked:

Iran immediately held candle lit vigils in sympathy for 9/11 and protests in Tehran against what was done in their name. Thomas Friedman in the New York Times, as far as I know, was the only western media to have reported on this.

Straight after 9/11 an organisation was formed called Muslims Against Terrorism and their first press statement said:

"As Muslims, we condemn terrorism in all its forms and manifestations. Ours is a religion of peace. We are sick and tired of extremists dictating the public face of Islam."

The Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt (one of the most fundamentalist groups in the Middle East) issued this statement on 19th Sep 2001 in al-Ahram (as far as I know it was never reported in any western media):

"We strongly condemn such activities that are against all humanist and Islamic morals. We condemn and oppose all aggression on human life, freedom and dignity anywhere in the world."

al-Azhar Mosque (the oldest Islamic Mosque and university in the world) issued this statement on 14th Sep 2001 but it was only reported in a French newspaper in the west (as far as I am aware):

"Attacking innocent people is not courageous; it is stupid and will be punished on the Day of Judgment.... It is not courageous to attack innocent children, women and civilians. It is courageous to protect freedom; it is courageous to defend oneself and not to attack."

The Ayatollah Ali Khamene'i, Supreme jurist-ruler of Iran issued this statement on 16th Sep 2001 (it was in all the Middle East papers but I can't find anything in the western media):

"Killing of people, in any place and with any kind of weapons…. carried out by any organization, country or individual is condemned. ... It makes no difference whether such massacres happen in Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Qana, Sabra, Shatila, Deir Yassin, Bosnia, Kosovo, Iraq or in New York and Washington.

King Abdullah II, Jordan said on 28 Sep 2001:

"What these people stand for is completely against all the principles that Arab Muslims believe in."

Th Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia said:

"...hijacking planes, terrorizing innocent people and shedding blood, constitute a form of injustice that cannot be tolerated by Islam, which views them as gross crimes and sinful acts."

There have been many demonstrations in the streets against terrorism in the name of Islam, these include:

Morocco - 150,000 marched to protest against al-Qaeda and terrorism (one banner read Stop the crimes in the name of Islam)

Jordon - anti terrorism protesters shouted "Death to al-Zarqawi, the villain and the traitor!"

Bahrain - massive demonstrations with Muslims marching with banners urging moderate Muslims to unite against terrorism.

Iraq - July 2005 there were organised marches against terrorism

Shall I go on or can you now see that the western media only reports one side of the story but that does not mean it is the whole story?
 
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After 9/11 we all saw the images of the Arab World dancing in the streets and burning the US flag. Or was that just the radicals and all the normal ones who condemed it just stayed at home. This to me is the true image of Islam. Most of them hate the West and everything it stands for.

If I had seen them out on the streets burning effigies of Osama then I am sure my views would be the opposite to those I have today.

Simon

How can you say something like that? We hear about rapists and child molesteres everyday on the news here, 90%+ of the time they are Christians. Does that mean i can call a Christian a craddle snatcher??? I dont think so.

As for Osama, he may be a Muslim but the whole religion doesn't evolve around him. Just because of his 'so called' actions doesn't make every Muslim a bomber, yes you may see it in the news that bombs are going of here and there but you have to understand that some people are fighting for there freedom. I very much doubt every bomber is/was a member of some group.

I for one will wear, eat, think and believe what I want and will search out alternatives if I want. I dont preach to and dont expect to be preached to. Nor should my wife be preached to......she is self conscious enough bless her.

I that it that your not a follower of any religion?

We are also talking about animals here and not humans and my personal view is AGAINST hunting. However, I would never try to compare the attrocities of 9/11 with a moral dilema like hunting. Which at the time was actually legal. Unlike flying 2 passenger jets full of families into a place of work also full of families. That's just pure evil driven by pure evil.

Simon

I suppose it is but what would you call govrnments killing families? I doubt you would call them anything, you would probably say that they had reason.
 
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Iran immediately held candle lit vigils in sympathy for 9/11 and protests in Tehran against what was done in their name. Thomas Friedman in the New York Times, as far as I know, was the only western media to have reported on this.

Straight after 9/11 an organisation was formed called Muslims Against Terrorism and their first press statement said:

“As Muslims, we condemn terrorism in all its forms and manifestations. Ours is a religion of peace. We are sick and tired of extremists dictating the public face of Islam.”

The Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt (one of the most fundamentalist groups in the Middle East) issued this statement on 19th Sep 2001 in al-Ahram (as far as I know it was never reported in any western media):

“We strongly condemn such activities that are against all humanist and Islamic morals. We condemn and oppose all aggression on human life, freedom and dignity anywhere in the world.”

al-Azhar Mosque (the oldest Islamic Mosque and university in the world) issued this statement on 14th Sep 2001 but it was only reported in a French newspaper in the west (as far as I am aware):

“Attacking innocent people is not courageous; it is stupid and will be punished on the Day of Judgment.... It is not courageous to attack innocent children, women and civilians. It is courageous to protect freedom; it is courageous to defend oneself and not to attack.”

The Ayatollah Ali Khamene'i, Supreme jurist-ruler of Iran issued this statement on 16th Sep 2001 (it was in all the Middle East papers but I can't find anything in the western media):

“Killing of people, in any place and with any kind of weapons…. carried out by any organization, country or individual is condemned. ... It makes no difference whether such massacres happen in Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Qana, Sabra, Shatila, Deir Yassin, Bosnia, Kosovo, Iraq or in New York and Washington.

King Abdullah II, Jordan said on 28 Sep 2001:

"What these people stand for is completely against all the principles that Arab Muslims believe in."

Th Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia said:

"...hijacking planes, terrorizing innocent people and shedding blood, constitute a form of injustice that cannot be tolerated by Islam, which views them as gross crimes and sinful acts."

There have been many demonstrations in the streets against terrorism in the name of Islam, these include:

Morocco - 150,000 marched to protest against al-Qaeda and terrorism (one banner read Stop the crimes in the name of Islam)

Jordon - anti terrorism protesters shouted "Death to al-Zarqawi, the villain and the traitor!"

Bahrain - massive demonstrations with Muslims marching with banners urging moderate Muslims to unite against terrorism.

Iraq - July 2005 there were organised marches against terrorism

Shall I go on or can you now see that the western media only reports one side of the story but that does not mean it is the whole story?

Fair enough but no doubt the majority of this came from non western media sources and so I would say to you: don't be so naieve as to believe everything you read or hear in the media! The press in your region is no more believable than in the west and you are just as easily manipulated if you allow yourself to be. :D
 
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The Ayatollah Ali Khamene'i, Supreme jurist-ruler of Iran issued this statement on 16th Sep 2001 (it was in all the Middle East papers but I can't find anything in the western media):

"Killing of people, in any place and with any kind of weapons…. carried out by any organization, country or individual is condemned. ... It makes no difference whether such massacres happen in Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Qana, Sabra, Shatila, Deir Yassin, Bosnia, Kosovo, Iraq or in New York and Washington.

From the leader of a country that carries the death sentence for homosexuality, prostitution, adultery (and a whole lot more).... very humble.
 
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... and who is also the leader of a country which wants to wipe Israel from the world's map.

Why?

All the Israelis want is to be LEFT ALONE.

Gaza - LEAVE THEM ALONE!

Lebanon - LEAVE THEM ALONE!

Egypt - LEAVE THEM ALONE!

Syria - LEAVE THEM ALONE!

Muslims - LEAVE THEM ALONE!

Dave
 
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Fair enough but no doubt the majority of this came from non western media sources and so I would say to you: don't be so naieve as to believe everything you read or hear in the media! The press in your region is no more believable than in the west and you are just as easily manipulated if you allow yourself to be. :D

I checked both sources wherever I could, I never just read one side of the story and that is why I am plodding on with this thread. Neither side wear black hats or white hats, neither side are blameless or totally guilty. I usually find the truth rests somewhere smack bang in the middle, with good and bad on both sides. The suggestion was that no Muslims protested about 9/11 or against terrorism in general - that is clearly wrong but propaganda has taken a firm hold and one side is portrayed as the black hat wearers - this is what I speak against.

... and who is also the leader of a country which wants to wipe Israel from the world's map.

I wonder why Iran has never even threatened war with Israel then? I am also curious as to why they support a one state solution.

There is no doubt that the man is a fruitloop but Israel do not wear the white hats in all this mess, they are not the innocent vicitms and should carry their part of the blame.
 
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How? :| I think this is a very strange thread for a business forum! :(

In the TIME OUT part of the forum you are free to discuss anything as long as it is legal. It does not need to be business related, in fact if it was business related then it would likely fit in one of the other parts of the forum.

Simon
 
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Fair comment, I understand what you say. I just think that this is one of those posts that is going nowhere and will ultimately achieve nothing. I think it's strange that someone living in the middle east would come onto this site and start a thread like this. I can't think of one reason why I would start a similar thread on egyptianbusinessforums.com!! It all seems very wierd. :rolleyes:
 
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Fair comment, I understand what you say. I just think that this is one of those posts that is going nowhere and will ultimately achieve nothing. I think it's strange that someone living in the middle east would come onto this site and start a thread like this. I can't think of one reason why I would start a similar thread on egyptianbusinessforums.com!! It all seems very wierd. :rolleyes:

Well if you have a look you will see that I did not start the thread, I simply commented on it when I saw it. I am also British and have been posting on the forum about business matters for some months now, I just happen to also have a home in Egypt where I spend half of my year. I simply find that as I live in both cultures it gives me a more balanced view of the 'sides' and am able to see that neither side are all right or all wrong.
 
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Fair enough but no doubt the majority of this came from non western media sources and so I would say to you: don't be so naieve as to believe everything you read or hear in the media! The press in your region is no more believable than in the west and you are just as easily manipulated if you allow yourself to be. :D

I think you will find that the same applies here.

... and who is also the leader of a country which wants to wipe Israel from the world's map.

Why?

All the Israelis want is to be LEFT ALONE.

Gaza - LEAVE THEM ALONE!

Lebanon - LEAVE THEM ALONE!

Egypt - LEAVE THEM ALONE!

Syria - LEAVE THEM ALONE!

Muslims - LEAVE THEM ALONE!

Dave

Which leader are we talking about here?

Fair comment, I understand what you say. I just think that this is one of those posts that is going nowhere and will ultimately achieve nothing. I think it's strange that someone living in the middle east would come onto this site and start a thread like this. I can't think of one reason why I would start a similar thread on egyptianbusinessforums.com!! It all seems very wierd. :rolleyes:

You obviously haven't read the whole thread have you, think you will find that someone else started the thread.
 
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