What is SharePoint?

[wood1e2]

Hi,

I migrated my email management and online storage solution from DropBox and 3Rd Party exchange service provider to MS Business office 365 !!

Which I am begining to think was a huge mistake as OneDrive cannot handle half the files that DropBox can...Anyway that aside.

When ever I speak with tech help at MS, who have been helpful and apologetic about OneDrive's short comings, they keep mentioning Share Point..

I don't use SharePoint, I don't know what Sharepoint is...so what is it? What has it got to do with my OneDrive?

Many thanks in advance

 

[Synextra-Chris]

Sharepoint is a document storage tool - You can map this like shared drives but it can be a little flaky depending on number of files, state of the internet connection / PC's.

If you need any help - Let me know

 

[threenine]

People have been asking this very question for years!!

In short it's a Microsoft perceived solution to Work Place collaboration. In reality is just on abomination of a software product that is over hyped and over sold. But that is just my view

There are countless others on this forum, that would have you believe that SharePoint is the actual cure for cancer.

 

[soundengineeruk]

SharePoint in a simple form is application and collaboration platform. There is not one paragraph or sentence that can describe SharePoint. SharePoint can accommodate quite an number of storage or business requirements..

What is it exactly you looking for One Drive to do?

SharePoint can be a double edge sword, it can benefit you and hurt a business at the same time.. It just needs some time to get it going to try to meet the business requirements.

 

[ffox]

I don't use SharePoint, I don't know what Sharepoint is...so what is it? What has it got to do with my OneDrive?

Hiya. SharePoint is not an application, or a program, it's a platform. O365 is effectively built around SharePoint on-line (the cloud version of SharePoint). There is nothing simple about the platform and it's functionality range is exceptional. It provides a document storage system, a work flow management system, in addition to file storage. It comes in O365 bundled with email and Office apps (Word, Excel, Access). On the whole and compared to other cloud offering it is huge value for money.
It has two current failings. 1. Synchronisation with local devices. 2. Misuse, usually resulting from mis-selling. It is not Dropbox or Google Docs and should not be compared to them, it is way more sophisticated than either. If you want an MS product that is just storage use OneDrive (formerly SkyDrive) and not One Drive for Business. MS are currently updating ODFB, hopefully the newer version will resolve many of the current issues with sync, but the best way to work with SP is through the browser, or through Office Apps.
I specialise in O365 and SP on-line and would be happy to advise you, without trying to sell solutions. I have a website which has free tutorials and guides. PM me if you are interested in learning more.

 

[Alan]

@wood1e2 wonder why you didn't goto Google Apps? Was it just the Microsoft Brand?

Most small businesses using a combination of PC based MS office & dropbox are far more suited to Google Apps for Work implementation - its faster to deploy- cheaper than dropbox and MS licences and designed from the inception for collaboration and the cloud.

 

[wood1e2]

Hi,

I am begining to believe having to pay three invoices a year, one to DropBox, one to MS for Office products, and one to a third party to service my email needs was a better idea than payig and saving money time going to MS direct!!

Although I have to say their set up process for MS Outlook was a simple thing!

Having said that who at MS believed that building and selling a BUSINESS solution for cloud storage on the back of SharePoint and not explicitly state this at the beginning should be shot!

OneDrive for Business is about as good for business as a kick in the nuts.

I stated what I wanted to unite the three elements under one billing/service provider.

And I end up with a pile of dog poo that is OneDrive for business!! How can it be described as a business solution?!?!?

@ffbox - Unless of course you know of a work around, seamless solution?

@Alan - I am not keen on using Gmail as my mail server as I can't stand the Gmail inbox ...As much as I hate MS at the moment, I am used to and don't object to MS Outlook. Unless of course there is another solution?

And I am not keen on using Google's online versions of excel, Word. I prefer using software on my computer. So I am keen to stick with Excel and Word, that said I do use LibreaOffice as well.

Oh hmmmmm...what an annoying pickle this all is

 

[wood1e2]

Oh and just a point about SharePoint...collaboration system?

Whats wrong with Email/Screencast/Phone calls/sheets of paper...and a calendar

 

[soundengineeruk]

Oh and just a point about SharePoint...collaboration system?

Whats wrong with Email/Screencast/Phone calls/sheets of paper...and a calendar

Nothing if it meets the business needs.

This is where business decision makers invest into SharePoint without first understanding what they are trying to achieve; which then makes SharePoint a poor return on investment and usually ends up being an expensive file share..

So first step, what are you business problem that you are trying to resolve..

PM me if you would like some free guidance to see if SharePoint is right or not...

 

[ffox]

Having said that who at MS believed that building and selling a BUSINESS solution for cloud storage on the back of SharePoint and not explicitly state this at the beginning should be shot!

I could go on for hours about why SP is good for a business, but it wouldn't do anything towards resolving your current issues. The point is that you now have O365 which is a SP solution and you either need to make it work or change to an alternative solution.
I'll certainly offer you advice, but first I'll need to know what the actual issues are. Let me know what client(s) OS are being used, the size and structures of the file systems requiring replication and the errors being returned by ODFB. It may be best to supply such detail by PM

 

[Alan]

@Alan - I am not keen on using Gmail as my mail server as I can't stand the Gmail inbox ...As much as I hate MS at the moment, I am used to and don't object to MS Outlook. Unless of course there is another solution?

And I am not keen on using Google's online versions of excel, Word. I prefer using software on my computer. So I am keen to stick with Excel and Word, that said I do use LibreaOffice as well.

OK so just a lack of understanding and knowledge about Google Apps then.

"Gmail as my mail server as I can't stand the Gmail inbox" The server and inbox are separate things, if you love Outlook you just use Outlook using IMAP just like any other email client. Many people used Thunderbird as their Gmail server client. What Gmail server brings is reliability, performance and very good antispam.

I would say, that the default setup of gmail client doesn't have a preview panel and that is the main difference I see between outlook / thunderbird and gmail - there is a preview panel - but for some reason it is hidden obscurely under settings>labs .

"And I am not keen on using Google's online versions of excel, Word. I prefer using software on my computer." Again, Google Drive doesn't care whether you use MS Word or Libre Office, it is just a drive - but it does happily handle all MS formats, so if for instance you are on you are on a device without 'office' you can still see & edit.

Additionally, of course if you do ever use the Google Docs editor, it happily exports in MS and Open Docs formats.

So in summary - you can happily use Outlook & MS Office products on your machine, and have email server & cloud storage in Google land.

Of course that is two bills, one for your licences when you upgrade MS and one for your cloud services.

 

[ffox]

@ffbox - Unless of course you know of a work around, seamless solution?

Okay. I've had a chance to look at this now. Working from the information given in this and your previous post. You are using MAC client and MS Office. You have an O365 account and you are trying to replicate a file share that is many layers deep to One Drive for Business. You are getting replication errors.
If your Office application suite is set to replicate across devices you will have an app on your PC called Groove.exe. This is your replication engine. Groove.exe is designed as a module of the Office apps suite (Word, Excel) and it does a good job. As Office 365 was rolled out the use of Groove was extended to cope with replication of SharePoint libraries. It works fine so long as the filenames and paths are simple. It does, however fall down with certain characters in the file or path name, or even path name that are too long. You will also experience issues where SharePoint replication and Office apps reside on the same device together. This often gives rise to credential authentication issues, especially if your client login is different to your O365 login.
MS have introduced a new replication engine which works solely with ODFB, this is called OneDrive.exe. Check if this is also present on your PC. If not, you will need to download it and install it. OneDrive.exe will not work with SP libraries, nor will it work with Word, Excel, etc. But it will run side by side with Groove.exe and it is more tolerant of file names and path lengths.
Are you sure that you are attempting to replicate to the One Drive for Business space? To check this log on to O365 via a browser, click the app launcher and click the tile for OneDrive. Manually upload some test files and then click the sync icon. Check your PC to see what results you get. Let me know how you get on and we'll progress towards a full solution.

 

[wood1e2]

@ soundengineeruk - I know I don't know what Sharepoint is all about, but I don't think it is something for me. I don't see the need, a bit like One Note, pointless.

As for the issues, that is for OneDrive for Business, as I don't work with Sharepoint, well not by design

1) In ability to allow more than 256 characters in file names
2) Inability to allow more than a pre-determined set bunch of characters
3) Inability to allow files of 0kb
4) its ability to constantly think a .zip folder is empty and therefore fall under point 3

I am currently downloading a website to check if any of the above has been fixed in the last 3 days!

@ffbox - Sorry I barely understood a word of that All I want to do is to create one folder for each of my clients. And in that folder store all the stuff that goes along with that client, which would/could include a website, databases, PSD files, .DOC files. - PS only saw your post after I had written the above points.

Then when I am out an about I can either remotely access them, or as I work on another machine these files download to that machine and basically sync across all my machines.

I presume when I use Syncing you mean replication?

@ everyone else regarding Google as a solution - I was going to think about sticking with MS for a year, but I think I am paying monthly, I need to check, so potentially a solution.

And one I hopefully won't have to wait a year for, whilst I pay MS for only two thirds of the service I wanted.

@Alan - it is a lack of understanding, but not about the Server/Mail Client bit, I know the difference, I just can't write But I don't like GMail. It is a layout thing, and a lack of understand I suppose.

I never seem to be able to find anything, its all 'conversational emailing' which I have changed in set up, but it is still confusing to me. I suppose am I an old git, got so used to MS Outlook/Thunderbird that I just don't want to change.

I do use Gmail though, but mainly for everything i have to register for, to say my business email.

And apologises for the wayward answering, trying to answer everyones kind advice, should have picked them all off one at a time.

 

[wood1e2]

PS @soundengineeruk I can't PM you
PS @ So two invoices is fine, but why not stick with DropBox? Rather than switch to Google Drive...

I am driving myself nuts now Thanks everyone

 

[ffox]

Then when I am out an about I can either remotely access them, or as I work on another machine these files download to that machine and basically sync across all my machines.

Okay. If you want to get to your files on One Drive for Business, download them onto one of your customers machines, work on them and then upload changes to One Drive for Business, you don't need replication. Upload and download via the browser

 

[ffox]

1) In ability to allow more than 256 characters in file names

You may find this thread useful -

https://community.office365.com/en-us/f/154/t/290058

 

[ffox]

Another thread -

https://support.office.com/en-gb/ar...172-be39-997da46f913f?ui=en-US&rs=en-GB&ad=GB

 

[Alan]

PS @ So two invoices is fine, but why not stick with DropBox? Rather than switch to Google Drive...

Its a good question, if you were happy with Dropbox / MS on your PC and whatever email - why did you make the change and give yourself a risk of project failure for no perceived benefit.

It happened, the project failed.

The only benefit I can recall (without re-reading the whole thread) was having one invoice - thats not a great benefit.

Of course DropBox for business is expensive for small businesses as the minimum user count is 5 at £11 / month whereas Google Apps unlimited doesn't have a minimum (but isn't unlimited under 5 user - its 1TB per user) and £6.60 per user - so for a 3 person business there can be a mopnthly saving of just under £40.

 

[wood1e2]

The reasoning was

1) One invoice for everything - Simplicity used to be best!
2) Saving of £100 per year
3) One place to go with support issues

Three good enough reason for me. Even if it is not viewed as good enough.

What the issue is I suppose is I viewed that OneDrive was a DropBox replacement. It obviously isn't!! Something that was never pointed out to me.

 

[wood1e2]

@ffox thanks for the links...the NExt Generation on MAC doesn't work. Or does but it is intermitent. Apparantly the developers are working on solutions.

I will read the other link you sent, thanks

 

[ffox]

.the NExt Generation on MAC doesn't work. Or does but it is intermitent

Ah. Okay. you're not going to get far without the next gen ODFB client, Groove (the old sync client) is coded to reject long path names and certain characters in file names. Hence the development of the new gen client.

 

[ffox]

How large are your customer file folders and how many are there?

 

[fisicx]

I could go on for hours about why SP is good for a business...

Maybe it would be better to say: SP is good for some businesses.

Not everyone needs SP.

As an aside, I was asked to use SP by a client when developing a plugin. It was a complete pain in the backside. Checking in and out all the time became very tedious. Using a GIT and SVN was much faster and easier.

And the man who cleans my windows doesn't need SP either. Nor does the man currently fixing the garage door.

 

[ffox]

Awww fisicx. Obviously you're not a SP fan. I said -

I could go on for hours about why SP is good for a business

Now this is just a bare statement of fact. I could go on about it for hours and I often do. You said -

Not everyone needs SP.

I said nothing about need, nor about want. My method of business is to propose a solution to a prospect. This will usually be SP based. If the prospect is interested in my enthusiastic proposal, I will construct a model to demonstrate the effectiveness. If the prospect likes the model, the prospect becomes a client and the proposal a solution. Most businesses don't NEED a computer, or a website, or even a mobile phone, but most businesses are better off with one or all of these things.
The best thing about SP is that solutions are simple to build and mostly they are codeless. This means that development costs are lower, as are maintenance costs. As no code is involved, the client is free to go elsewhere for further development and support.

And the man who cleans my windows doesn't need SP either. Nor does the man currently fixing the garage door.

Show me a business process, even a very simple one, and I can show you a way to improve it. Using SP makes this more likely to be cost effective. A one man tradesman business can benefit enormously from an SP solution accessed, updated and run using a smartphone or tablet.

There you go - you got me going on about SP again
Sad boring old furt aren't I

 

[fisicx]

Here's one for you.

I develop a plugin and upload to the test site using SVN. The client tests and reports back any bugs or changes. We may use skype or email or talk on the phone to go over finer details but that's about all we need to do. Once they are happy they transfer the money and I release the code.

Not sure how would sharepoint improve this process? BTW, I'm using a linux machine and they are using a Mac. Neither of us have any MS products.

 

[ffox]

Wood1e2. If the new gen client is unavailable in reliable form, I would suggest a temporary workaround. Provided that your client folders are less than 5GB combined, register for a OneDrive live account and use that as a cloud resource for the customer files until MS sort out the issues with ODFB new gen.
The advantages are -

1. You can still use your PC based Office products to edit the files
2. OneDrive live is free up to 5GB
3. OneDrive live doesn't care about file names
4. If you have issues storing empty files, simply enter a single white space (one press of the space bar) into the troublesome files, this creates an ANSI character into the file which is invisible to browsers and makes the file acceptable.
5. This gets you working.

Let me know what you think

 

[ffox]

Not sure how would sharepoint improve this process? BTW, I'm using a linux machine and they are using a Mac. Neither of us have any MS products.

In an O365 SP environment the development (codeless) is applied to the SharePoint site in the cloud. No code is written and the client or the clients SP admin has full access to all of the process functions. Nothing is applied to or uploaded to any machine on the clients network and no access is required to the clients network. The client can be using Linux, MAC, Android, or anything else that runs a browser. Simple, fast, efficient

 

[fisicx]

Sorry I don't understand any of that. The website is a wordpress install at testdomain.com. That's where the plugin is uploaded. I don't want the client to have full access to to anything - all they have to do is test the functionality on the test site.

 

[ffox]

I develop a plugin and upload to the test site using SVN

I develop a business solution, or part solution. This could contain one or more libraries and/or lists, workflows and task triggers. And upload either to a test site on my domain, or test site on my customers domain.

The client tests and reports back any bugs or changes. We may use skype or email or talk on the phone to go over finer details but that's about all we need to do.

I do exactly the same

The difference is that you are deploying a plugin for a web site and I am deploying a business solution. If the question '...how does this make things simpler for fisicx...' the answer is, it doesn't, as O365 and SP is not about public facing websites. It is about utilising web access to a cloud resource in order to enable a business, sole trader or multiple user, to gather, process and file data in a collaborative fashion. So, the man repairing your garage door can invoice you by email just as soon as you sign off his work. Once he has finished your job he can access the details of the next from his smart phone and send a text to the customer reporting that he is on his way. When he clears his voice mail he can schedule all new jobs incoming, again from his smartphone. If the man working on your garage door is a partner in a firm of three garage door engineers, he will know what the others are doing and where they are. They can each pick and schedule jobs from voice mail, email, or from a central location where an administrator may be employed.
What is so good about this?
Well, as all documentation is handled electronically in real time, there is almost no paperwork to do back at base. Once the day's work is done these guys can go home and relax.

Hey. You did it again - I could go on and on and on....

 

[Shonda Myers]

the give you a clear explanation, you might want to read this http://www.aiim.org/What-is-Microsoft-Sharepoint

 

[ffox]

the give you a clear explanation, you might want to read this http://www.aiim.org/What-is-Microsoft-Sharepoint

Shonda. A nice short, slightly technical, summary.

It even covers the search and find aspect -
"Finally there is the Microsoft Search Server, an Enterprise Search engine that provides advanced indexing and searching capabilities that can be integrated into a MOSS Web-based interface."
But fails to expand on it.
Delphi research from way back in 2002 showed that most of us spend 20% of our computer time searching for data that we have filed and lost. SP automatically crawls and indexes all site library and list content. Using just the default metadata added by SP, date/time stored, date/time modified, created and modified username, file name and title, plus readable content, makes the SP site search very powerful.
Even in an ill conceived library/list structure data is located far more easily than in a traditional file and folder repository. To put perspective on that just think about what it means to the small business at CT600 time of year.

 

[fisicx]

Well, as all documentation is handled electronically in real time, there is almost no paperwork to do back at base. Once the day's work is done these guys can go home and relax.

But I can do all this already. So can the window cleaner. O365 and SP don't add any benefit to the many (often free) applications already available.

It all goes back to your bare statement of fact. While some business may benefit from using SP, that doesn't mean all businesses will benefit.

 

[ffox]

But I can do all this already. So can the window cleaner. O365 and SP don't add any benefit to the many (often free) applications already available.

So you can. If you use something like Google Docs or Google Apps you can cobble all the elements together to collect and generate business critical data on the fly. The only issue is that the files and records are all saved in different applications and file structures. At some point in time someone has to sit down and trawl all of the repositories and copy/paste, move and structure the data before it means anything useful. It's this very failing that gave rise to the Delphi research finding in 2002 that most of us spend around 20% of our computer time searching for stuff we have stored 'somewhere' and in 'some' format. SP automatically adds metadata to data and SP sites are crawled and indexed at whatever frequency the site owner sets. This means that garage Door Repair man can fill his van with fuel, photograph the receipt and store the image and van mileage and fuel cost in a word document, stored in a library call something like 'Vehicle Receipts'. he can do this in seconds before leaving the garage forecourt. SP will record the date/time of the transaction and who created the document. This can all be achieved with SP out-of-the-box functionality with no need for any free or purchased apps. The only training is to read a short tutorial on how. A small thing, but taken over a year, this data is easily findable and sortable into any format that is useful to the business, the bookkeeper, the accountant or the tax man.
Add to this the fact that O365 is very competitively priced and is being taken up by many businesses on the basis of email and cloud storage. Such businesses already have SP in the O365 package and only need to go a small step to discover how beneficial this functionality is.

It all goes back to your bare statement of fact. While some business may benefit from using SP, that doesn't mean all businesses will benefit.

Once again you are stating that I said something which I didn't. I said - "I could go on for hours about why SP is good for a business" which is not the same thing.

 

[MathSpire]

I've just set up O365 accounts. Very happy with a lot of features including email, Skype Business.

But the OneDrive for Business/Sharepoint looks like it's in transition and not usable for us at the moment. The "next generation client" will only sync a users files, not shared files or (Sharepoint) document libraries. We wanted to use document libraries like "Finance", "Programming" etc.. To sync these we'd need to use the old "groove.exe" client which looks hard to set up and reviews suggest it is buggy.

I think we'll keep working with shared OneDrive personal accounts for now and wait until later in the year when they update the new sync client. "We’re adding SharePoint Online document library sync, starting with a preview in the third quarter of 2016, with general release by the end of 2016."

 

[ffox]

We wanted to use document libraries like "Finance", "Programming" etc..

Hiya. Welcome to the world of O365 and SharePoint on-line. Can I ask why you want to sync the libraries? I would have thought that having financial data duplicated across multiple devices is something to avoid. Having your users access the libraries via the browser is much better. If the users have Word, Excel, etc. These will read and write directly to the on-line libraries and if a user needs to work off-line, download before detaching from the Internet.
This method works well with Android and IoS as well as Windows.

 

[MathSpire]

Interesting. I have been used to syncing everything. Maybe doing everything from a browser could work at least for Office files. For files that need editing in other applications I think we'd need syncing.

 

[ffox]

Hmmm. If you are going to have a library with the name "Finance" and you're going to sync all files that are not Office app files and not sync Office app files, you would need to split "Finance" into two libraries. What files do you have that are not Office files but require editing?

 

[MathSpire]

Images, LaTeX-related files, Mathematica notebooks, vector graphics formats. I feel I am OK with OneDrive personal shares at the moment and it's already set up. I've found sharepoint administration has been harder than other parts of O365 and I think it will improve over the next few months (Sync client, site management, finishing the new O365 admin site).

 

[ffox]

Images, LaTeX-related files, Mathematica notebooks, vector graphics formats.

The images I would store in the Libraries either as PDF (will open in the browser) or insert them into Word documents (will also open in the browser) and, in both cases ensure that there is appropriate metadata added to deliver good search results in later years. If I remember correctly LaTex backend can be shared in RTF format. Again, I would do that. Mathematica formats and vector graphics I know nothing about, but again I would look at attempting to find a method of storing them in libraries for browser access and download as required.
The reasoning behind this is that as your libraries build in content, you will want to add triggers that launch tasks from events and you will want to make use of the extensive SP search functions to locate files. If only part of the data is in the libraries, this will become increasingly complicated.

Alternatively you can have your users access the library via the client Windows Explorer. Open the library in the browser, select the 'Library' tab and select 'Open with Explorer' this will display the contents for the library in regular Explorer format. You can even copy the library path, map a network drive to it and save it as a desktop shortcut. (When you first try this you may get a message inviting you to get the latest sync client. If so just cancel it and try again).

Replication of a lot of data across many devices is not really a good idea, I think MS only do it because Google Docs and Dropbox do it. Also, if you wait until MS deliver a reliable replication (sync) client, it may be a long wait (they've been working on it now for two years).

Another route I have deployed, provided all users are on a LAN, is to use Groove to replicate all libraries to a single PC or server on the network. Groove will work fine with SP Libraries, provided that there are no Office Apps (Word, Excel, etc.) on the same box (the Groove issue is to do with credential clashes between Office and O365). The users can then map a network drive to the server share from their own machines. Drop me a PM if you want further discussion offline.

 

[richard-beese]

Sharepoint is the tool of Microsoft which uses to keep the records of employees or daily work report. We can say that it is a replacement of Dropbox. It is very human-friendly & easy to understand. This is a best tool to store or kept records safe.