Wedding Photography Contract

[NeilBaxter1976]

Hi,

I am a wedding photographer. Still building my business at the moment but it is going steadily. I had a lady ask to book me at the end of last year for her wedding in August 2014. I live in Bury St Edmunds. I will call her Miss H to save confusion later on. She wanted to book me for her ceremony on Saturday 23rd August in Bury then reception at the Ritz in London and also a party back in Bury the following day. At the end of last year, and after turning down other work for the Sunday, she informed me she was not having the reception at the Ritz anymore. Full wedding was now near Bury and she no longer needed me for the Sunday. At this point she had not paid a booking deposit so there was not much I could do but was still happy for her to book me for the Saturday. At no point had she asked for a quote and my prices and details are displayed on my website.
In january this year 2 couples contacted me with regards to this date. I messaged Miss H as she questioned my prices before our agreed consultation. I made her aware of why they had gone up & took £50 off my price for her. I also made her aware of other couples asking about this date who definitely wanted me with which she confirmed she wanted me and on 31st January 2014 signed a booking form which states "A minimum £100 booking deposit has been paid and your wedding date secured. All deposits are non-refundable" She went away and on her own accord decided to pay the full £650 via bank transfer.
On 24th February she sent me a Facebook message to say the wedding was off and to return any monies at my earliest convenience. I explained I was in a very tight financially position. She replied she wanted money returned by the following Friday (5 days later) I explained this would not be possible due to funds and reminded her I turned down other work to take her booking. She gave me another week. I then received a letter written by her giving me till the 7th March to pay back £550. On Friday the 6th she text me reminding me I£550 was due in her bank the following day. I politely told her I could not do this and was seeking legal action. She text me I left her with no choice! I pointed out what her booking form clearly stated "A minimum £100 booking deposit has been paid and your wedding date secured. All deposits are non-refundable."
At this point she became rude and almost bullish. A few text were sent but nothing else happened. 15th of March I received a letter, again written by her, saying £500 (originally £550) was due in her bank by Friday 28th March or she would submit a claim to the courts for action. I have received no letters from solicitors or courts etc.I have found her to be quite rude and unreasonable and I don't have this sort of money at my disposal. I strongly feel as a small independent photographer still starting out in business I am an easy target and being bullied somewhat. Plus I have lost work and spent a lot of time initially setting up the wedding.Could you please give me some idea of where I stand here.

Kind regards

Neil

 

[Charlie B ACS]

Sorry, unless you asked her for full payment as "a deposit", you owe her at least a large proportion of her money back.

Can you clarify "Plus I have lost work and spent a lot of time initially setting up the wedding" as the date is still a distance away. What have you actually done?

 

[noo81]

She has paid you in full, therefore you owe her all the monies except the non-refundable deposit of £100, I make that £550 owed to her if she paid you £650. In short I would have got rude with you by now, as what you are telling her is you spent money for a job you haven't done. Losing work due to cancellation is surely why you ask for a non-refundable deposit of £100.

 

[Charlie B ACS]

She has paid you in full, therefore you owe her all the monies except the non-refundable deposit of £100, I make that £550 owed to her if she paid you £650. In short I would have got rude with you by now, as what you are telling her is you spent money for a job you haven't done. Losing work due to cancellation is surely why you ask for a non-refundable deposit of £100.

Unless he can can prove that has has spent money that can't be recovered, or done prep work, but this far in advance it is a little doubtful.

 

[Riverbed]

Pay her back, you have a reputation to keep seeing as you're starting up.

 

[ethical PR]

I agree with the above comments.

It doesn't appear that the client has bullied you or acted inappropriately. On the contrary it appears that rather than returning the balance to her when she paid you the full amount in error, you kept it, spent it and now are unable to return it to her in line with the terms and conditions you agreed with her.

Why shouldn't you return the monies owed to her immediately? It's not the customers fault that you spent her money and because you are in a tight position financially you don't want to return to her what you owe her. Look at it from the customers point of view. She has the upset of having her wedding cancelled and then you add to it by refusing to return the money you owe her....no wonder she's upset.

If I was the customer I would report you to trading standards and take you to the Small Claims Court at the earliest opportunity.

 

[NeilBaxter1976]

Sorry, I possibly came across wrongly. I was willing to make some kind of refund, just unable in the first instance to do in 5 days. I originally asked for more time. Or to come to some sort of agreement. That was all. The response was an extra 7 days. As I understand refunds can usually take up to 30 days. I may have been a bit cross when I wrote this but she has been very unreasonable and rude I feel. I'm know if she has paid for the venue, dress, cake, all that cost a lot more than me they would have told her sorry but no. Possibly she sees me as a small independent sole business man. I have lost work from the Sunday she already wanted to book me and the fact that 2 couples contacted me, 1 definitely wanted to book me and were very disappointed I was already booked. She had enquired first in 2013 but not paid her deposit so it was my duty to contact her and find out if she definitely wanted me and secure the date.
She is talking of going to court so I was just wondering if anyone knew what would happen if she did as I simply cannot give her what I don't have. I was considering making her an offer of part payment, as I have now lost the booking and the other 2 couples have booked other photographers, but it would have to be in instalments!

 

[DavidWH]

Pay the refund and learn a valuable lesson. Until the deposit is paid the wedding isn't booked, and may be booked by another customer.

Also consider changing your deposit amount.

£100 to secure 2days of work? £50 a day? Up your deposit to reflect the job, at least so if this happens again you've not lost two days work for £100.

Maybe something similar to holiday deposits where you want x% so many days before, x% the month before, as their date gets closer you're less likely to get anotger booking if they cancel.

 

[Riverbed]

The other bookings or lost bookings are irrelevant in your case.
You set the deposit. not her so she deserves the refund. perhaps she's after a re-assurance that you intend paying her back, be honest with her and sympathetic.

 

[obscure]

Sorry, I possibly came across wrongly. I was willing to make some kind of refund, just unable in the first instance to do in 5 days. I originally asked for more time. Or to come to some sort of agreement. That was all. The response was an extra 7 days. As I understand refunds can usually take up to 30 days.

Why would refunds "usually take up to 30 days". You owe her money and, unless there is a specific clause in your contract giving you 30 days to pay, you should pay it immediately.

 

[NeilBaxter1976]

Because I have requested refunds for services or items in the past that I have ordered and have sometimes had to wait for the money. The fact that she gave me a 5 day deadline, then added another week during which time I was still unable to get the funds, then heard nothing for 2 weeks, then received a written request it tells me that I have some kind of right here as do the big companies involved such as the ritz in london they originally booked, the second venue they selected, the dress, the cake etc. Look I was just asking for actual advice on the matter not peoples opinion. I do intend to pay here back but if at the time she demands it back I don't have the money there is not a lot I can do. I she takes me to court I have now been told that I may have to offer a payment in instalments. I thought this website was here for business advice etc. Not a Facebook style lynch mob! Although Charlie, Riverbed and DavidWH I would like to thank you 3 as you have offered the right advice in a respectful and decent way. Thank you. Now does anyone know how I delete my account?

 

[Charlie B ACS]

Neil,

Your best approach would be to admit liability, and make an offer of staged payments, citing financial difficulties.

 

[NeilBaxter1976]

That is exactly what I have done. It was my only option. My worry was her still taking legal action. Thank you for your help and advice. Dont suppose you know how I can to delete my account on here. Seems once your on here your stuck which probably isn't right!

 

[obscure]

Because I have requested refunds for services or items in the past that I have ordered and have sometimes had to wait for the money.

And were you happy about that? Unless you had previously agreed to terms and conditions that allowed them to hold onto your money then it was due immediately.

Look I was just asking for actual advice on the matter .....

And that is what you got. I am sorry you don't like the advise but that doesn't change the legalities of the issue. If you owe a person money you are legally required to pay it. You don't get to decide to pay it only when it is convenient. Your cash-flow problems are your own and not your clients problem. On that basis it is perfectly understandable that your client may get upset when you don't pay her.

Look back through these forums and you will see many, many posts from the other side. People who are owed money by companies that haven't paid up. The advise is always the same - give them a week to fourteen days to pay and if they don't take them to court. Why would you expect your client to do anything different?

To avoid a similar situation in the future update your terms and conditions to give yourself a reasonable amount of time to pay refunds.

 

[NeilBaxter1976]

Its all done now anyway. I have been told LEGALLY that I don't have to pay as the contract clearly states "Minimum £100". What the client decides to pay as a deposit is up to them. Plus they were NEVER asked or encouraged to pay in full. If they had paid £100, them added another payment later this may have been seen differently but they paid in full, and I have lost work because of this. However I am paying back and adjusting my terms and conditions.

 

[farmerswife]

I would advice that you have a legally set up terms & conditions that is applicable to you not cut and pasted. I recently arranged for a child's entertainer for a party and was emailed them - all I had to do was confirm all the details and tick all the boxes it was then mailed back. Its worth speaking to a business advisor to see if there is funding for this and get specific legal advice before you take on any business you need to be aware of any pitfalls and you should have basic consumer knowledge.

The client also seems odd - you are only charging £650 for 3 visits and it was supposedly at the Ritz - alarm bells are ringing here was she pulling your leg? I havent seen a cheap rate like this - you charging for travel? She wasnt wearing a big fat dress was she - sounds like money laundering. Did she not meet you, talk through yr pictures and get details. Again wedding photographers either go to the brides home or she come to you. No offence but if anyone was having a wedding at the Ritz wouldnt they be using an experienced and well known/famous photographer????? You may have a bunny boiler on your hands!

 

[NeilBaxter1976]

Thank you. That is great advice. And thank you for it being advice and not just an opinion. My wedding photography career has taken off in my area this year. I started 4/5 years ago charging between nothing and £150 to build my portfolio and reputation. £650 is no way near what I want to charge but I am slowly increasing my prices each year as I learn more, my reputation grows, my service and images improve etc. But many people these days think the photographer has an easy job. Click of a button. they don't realise the cost of equipment (at the moment I carry at least £15000 worth of camera equipment with me to every wedding), importance of having back up cameras, insurance, knowledge & experience etc. I have covered weddings last year where couples have haggled me down to £350 for a full day because someone else quoted them £200! I've then had to listen to them boast about their £700 wedding cake! In this day and age, especially with everything being digital, Facebook business pages etc, it is very hard to compete with the amount of cheap "photographers" that claim to be professional and "cowboys" out there trying to make a quick few quid. Many ripping people off on the way. I know of 2 "photographers" in my area that take a minimum of £1100 per wedding. Both taken to court in the last 2 years by a number of couples who have NEVER received any wedding pictures! Neither offer signed contracts. Courts opinion. No proof. No money! This disgusts me. Last I heard one of the photographers works cash in hand and lives on full benefits. The other one brought a .co.uk version of my personal and business name and linked it to his site for 2 years! Both have now left this town. I could go on but all this I know is irrelevant to this actual case.

With regards to the Ritz. When first contacted about the booking the thought of shooting a wedding at the Ritz filled me with excitement. Kind of blown away. Getting wedding images from places such as this opens the possibilities of new doors and the type of clients I want to attract. The type that appreciate that these days you really do get what you pay for and getting away from the people that are just looking for a cheap deal. She would have been charged extra for the Sunday but that would have been arranged once the booking was finalised. Yes they did both come and meet me for a consultation which is where they agreed to book me, signed the form and went away and made a bank transfer for the full payment. Just to add I was not aware they were going to pay in full. They had actually been guests at a wedding I was booked for the previous year and were very impressed with both how I worked on the day and the final images.

I do not take offence from any of your comments farmers wife (lol) and actually really appreciate your honesty and looking at this from both sides. I won an award in my area for my photography services and was called just yesterday by a magazine saying they I qualified for their wedding of the year competition. After covering over 70 weddings over the last 4/5 years, some big, some very small, I have never had an unhappy client. I am not in this to take peoples money and although within 2 years I hope to have my prices at a minimum of £1500 per booking. But even then I know the greatest reward will still be the joy I give to couples when they can look at the images I have captured and can relive one of the happiest days of their lives.

Thank you again farmerswife. I have requested leaving this forum as I think it is more about opinions that what I originally thought but yours, riverbed, charlie and davidwh imput has been much appreciated. Thank you