All this, for a virus that’s so deadly you need a test to find out if you’re ill. Who’d have thought it?
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Was Sweden right after all ?
- Thread starter Justin Smith
- Start date
That's totally wrong, you test to find out if someone is infected prior to any signs showing, or to confirm what is causing the problem
No wonder you have it so wrong if you cannot understand the basics. after how many months
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You've gone from claiming
To claiming
Sure you don't want to change it again to simply killing off the sick?
Or is that going too far for you?
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SAGE have confirmed today that students & young people aren’t to blame for the rise in infections, & that they are in fact complying just as much as older people.
I agree with them that the government should get their own house in order with track & trace before they go pointing fingers (and encouraging MSM to do the same therefore leading to the blinkered views we see on these forums)
I agree with them that the government should get their own house in order with track & trace before they go pointing fingers (and encouraging MSM to do the same therefore leading to the blinkered views we see on these forums)
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Hey I didn’t write the report!
What they’re confirming is that students aren’t spreading any more than any other age group.
Ask the scientists?
What they’re confirming is that students aren’t spreading any more than any other age group.
Ask the scientists?
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That's not the only way the virus is being spread.
Pubs have been open a while now. Almost zero social distancing is practical in smaller establishments.
They then went and changed the closing time to 10pm, forcing dozens of people from each pub out in a big group. It's not just students who go to the pub.
Been to a supermarket recently? People have completely given up on social distancing, they're all bumping in to each other and picking things up then putting them back down. Lots of people wearing masks under their noses, which as become popular now.
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True its not the only way the virus is being spread.
However people are getting the virus from somewhere. There are places where majority of people will be students - such as in student accomodation. And places where its far more mixed - supermarkets.
Will it spread when putting lots of people together? Apparently so - based on outbreaks so far in businesses and universities.
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Which is why I think the current "suppress it until we have a vaccine" strategy is not going to work.
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I am afraid it is part of this government's strategy. Persuade people to blame the 'others', so it is never the government's fault.
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Pretty sure the government is not spreading the virus or making people ill.
Not so sure parliament is entirely off scot free (pun intended) either.
Its very easy for people to blame government. For everything, even when its not down to them.
Oh look a bird crapped on your car. Government's fault.
No space in supermarket car park near the door? Government's fault.
You get a cold. Government's fault.
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- Original Poster
- #863
I have said for months there would be no second spike (as defined by the death rate not going any where near what it did the first time) and I have no reason to change my mind just yet..... :
The above figures include anyone who has died, from whatever cause, who has had a positive Covid test in the last 28days.
On average about 1500 people die every day in this country.
The above figures include anyone who has died, from whatever cause, who has had a positive Covid test in the last 28days.
On average about 1500 people die every day in this country.
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- Original Poster
- #864
That is impossible, you cannot "get back to normal" whilst "keeping control of Covid" (whatever exactly that means).
What you can do is get pretty well back to normal whilst limiting deaths from Covid, and if we had a government with balls we could do that now. Remember about 1500 people in this country die every day anyway, many from preventable causes, like obesity for instance, and as far as I can remember fatties aren't prosecuted for their physique, not yet anyway....... So the question is what is an acceptable death rate from Covid (bearing in mind the massive social and economic cost of trying to suppress it) ?
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And yet even you have not figured out how to limit deaths from covid. How successful have you been since January?
Coming into winter, flu and norovirus usually around and you want things to be worse.
More people hospitalised, more people off sick - reduced services and cancelled events - simply to not have restrictions in your own life.
While millions would still act as they do now. Because they do recognise the problems.
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I
Interestedobserver
You simply can't judge it's impact on deaths alone Justin
I wish it were that simple
There's a huge amount of hospital days that go into people who survive and/or survive but then are seriously ill and incapacitated ongoing
It's not a quick "die or survive moment"
Many survivors are spending weeks and months in hospital and many are ongoing ill afterwards
Regardless of death rates
You must start factoring that in to your thoughts?
Letting Covid run rampant just leads to HUGE amounts of hospitalizations and ongoing illnesses that we as a country would never be able to cope with
Not even worrying about the deaths on top?
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At least someone’s doing an investigation into the care homes at last.
And five people have been arrested for the heinous crime of....buying some lunch in Tesco.
WT actual F??
And five people have been arrested for the heinous crime of....buying some lunch in Tesco.
WT actual F??
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It was more the unbelievable level of hysteria which makes a Cheese sandwich a crime rather than the geographical location of it...
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It wasn't the cheese sarnie that made it a crime though...I'm sure you know that though.
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Yeah that’s true. It could’ve been ham I suppose!
All for a virus which the experts can’t even count properly - they were only 16,000 out!
All for a virus which the experts can’t even count properly - they were only 16,000 out!
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Yes, just as many people get it, in a shorter time, and we get herd immunity.
On top of that we reduce the effects of lockdown (including deaths and other illnesses) and we encourage the evolution of less dangerous versions of the lock down.
The "suppress until we have a vaccine" is huge, irresponsible gamble on an effective virus being available soon.
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So we get hospitals jam packed, more people dead - and that does what for impact on other conditions, other treatments, other services?
Oh sorry sir we cannot get an ambulance to you, all ours have had to travel over an hour away to a nightingale hospital to move people needing hospitalised. Or ambulance staff off sick / isolating in quarantine.
Just carry on choking / heart attack / stroke / anaphylaxis / bleeding / not breathing. Or get a taxi to local hospital.
You would ramp up the impact on other stuff. Possibly killing a lot more people who die from something other than covid.
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Or you could learn why.
They agreed to quarantine. And then stopped off at a shop to buy alcohol. Breaking quarantine.
If they did not agree with it then why agree with doing it?
IOM appear to have control of their borders and action against those breaching agreed rules far better than UK does.
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Why??
Amnesty International are a globally recognised force for good, and hopefully the results of their findings will expose exactly who is personally responsible for the reprehensible decisions taken around care homes. There’s a good chance that whoever did make those decisions is still out there, issuing orders/advice/guidance to the wider public.
That’s why.
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If that was an actual danger, it would justify a lockdown. That was the argument for the lockdown in March.
It does not justify a lockdown with patients in hospital and admissions at a tenth of the peak level (which we coped with hardly even needing the Nightingale hospitals) and growing slowly.
IN March, the lockdown as a response to three times the number of daily admissions and a much higher rate of increase.
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And when we get far more admissions and deaths - what then? Lockdown again?
And wait the few weeks from that time for the numbers to peak?
We have as you say a lot less patients in hospital and a lot less deaths now. But with nothing reducing the spread of the virus - indeed you'd benefit from it being spread quickly - then we'd not have current numbers! The numbers now are based on the actions over past months.
To avoid overwhelming the NHS you'd have to lockdown say 2 weeks (may be longer) or so before hitting peak. Work backwards, what is the peak level you want and figure 2 weeks or so prior.
And even while figures are increasing - during high season for 2 other viruses - hospitals may end up full anyway.
Its no fun going to A&E when the local hospital is 98% full and waiting times to be seen are around 12 hours. Luckily I waited less than one hour- cyanotic lips will do that to medical staff - and that was over a year ago.
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Confusing world we live in
Hospitals for at least the last 20 odd years have always complained about the health repeat healthy OAP's bed blocking hospitals as they had nowhere to go home to, but no doubt social care found the money to pay for them to be transferred to care homes, note care homes not nursing homes a big difference
If these people were responsible for spreading the virus how did they get infected living in the hospital and why other wards did not also get the virus
With no major testing centers and very limited tests available who could they be tested, there was just not the facilities to do so, people were working on the basic symptoms to diagnose the virus
Does anyone have proof that ill OAP's were mover out of hospital into care homes and were other non OAP's also moved out to go home at the same time
Is it far more likely that outsiders brought the virus into care homes Why on earth would a political agenda organisation like Amnesty International look into our care home treatment and offer a fair and just report
Nursing homes are for patients needing medical care, whilst care homes generally do not take in people with medical needs apart from normal issuing medication you would take at home
Hospitals for at least the last 20 odd years have always complained about the health repeat healthy OAP's bed blocking hospitals as they had nowhere to go home to, but no doubt social care found the money to pay for them to be transferred to care homes, note care homes not nursing homes a big difference
If these people were responsible for spreading the virus how did they get infected living in the hospital and why other wards did not also get the virus
With no major testing centers and very limited tests available who could they be tested, there was just not the facilities to do so, people were working on the basic symptoms to diagnose the virus
Does anyone have proof that ill OAP's were mover out of hospital into care homes and were other non OAP's also moved out to go home at the same time
Is it far more likely that outsiders brought the virus into care homes Why on earth would a political agenda organisation like Amnesty International look into our care home treatment and offer a fair and just report
Nursing homes are for patients needing medical care, whilst care homes generally do not take in people with medical needs apart from normal issuing medication you would take at home
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