Vaccine anyone?

[alan1302]

everyone seems like they're pro-vaccine, but let's have a look at a few numbers.

Let's look at autism by the numbers

• 1970 1 in 10,000
• 1975 1 in 5,000
• 1985 1 in 2,500
• 1995 1 in 500
• 2001 in 150
• 2004 1 in 125
  
• 2006 1 in 110
• 2008 1 in 88
• 2012 1 in 68
• 2017 1 in 36
  
  so what is causing autism to increase exponentially? could it be a vaccine given at birth?
  
  sources : https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/data.html
  https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db291.html

You just said you were not posting anymore!

Could be much better diagnosis of autism - think most people have heard of autism now.

You are trying to find something that is changing and giving a cause for that change.

You could just as easily say that autism is caused by disposable nappies - more of them are used now than in 1970.

 

[Karimbo]

I realised during covid that most Brits are thick and shit, have opinions on things they have no business in having. The 5G conspiracies, the Bill gates conspiracies. Now we have the anti vaccine conspiracies.

We can't even vaccinate everyone, loads of people have allergies and auto immune diseases. 10% of people dont even have a immune response from the vaccine. We can't vaccinate under 16s, pregnant people because it hasn't been tested on them. That leaves us with a much smaller population of people who are eligible to have the vaccine.

If half the people amongst that group are too scared to take the vaccine, and refuse to do so. We stand no chance of beating covid. 2/3 of people on a population need to be immne from it, in order to develop herd immunity, without this 2/3 - there's is no chance of eliminating it and we'll be forever in tier1, tier2, tier3, total lockdown.

The only way to get these anti vaxxers to comply is to wean them off furlough. Introduce vaccine passports. Emplyers will want all the staff to have a valid passport for work - that should be enough to persude them to comply.

I've had covid for real, I had a relatively benign sickness - still haveing o2 saturation drop to 92% was scary, so was waking up completely breathless, gasping for air at 4am at night.

I'm probably immune to it for 3-4 months. I'll be able to catch it again, I really don't want to catch it again - the experience was horrible.

 

[Ian J]

I've had covid for real, I had a relatively benign sickness - still haveing o2 saturation drop to 92% was scary, so was waking up completely breathless, gasping for air at 4am at night.

I'm probably immune to it for 3-4 months. I'll be able to catch it again, I really don't want to catch it again - the experience was horrible.

One of the problems is that Covid isn't consistent in the way that it affects people. I am in the age group that needs to be careful as well as being diabetic and having a rare blood cancer yet when I caught the disease I just lost my sense of taste for a couple of days at a time when that hadn't been listed as a symptom and I suffered no after effects at all.

Conversely you read about young healthy people who suffer very badly both with the virus and with it's after effects.

 

[Newchodge]

everyone seems like they're pro-vaccine, but let's have a look at a few numbers.

Let's look at autism by the numbers

• 1970 1 in 10,000
• 1975 1 in 5,000
• 1985 1 in 2,500
• 1995 1 in 500
• 2001 in 150
• 2004 1 in 125
  
• 2006 1 in 110
• 2008 1 in 88
• 2012 1 in 68
• 2017 1 in 36
  
  so what is causing autism to increase exponentially? could it be a vaccine given at birth?
  
  sources : https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/data.html
  https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db291.html

There are NO vaccines given at birth.

Autism 'increasing exponentially' could simply be a result of better diagnosing.

 

[Clodbuster]

"First, autism is increasing because we are diagnosing milder forms. This is reflected in the term autism spectrum disorders because it includes such a broad spectrum of children that we, in the medical profession, never would have included before. At first, only children with ‘classic autism’—no words, in their own world, and focused solely on repetitive behaviors—would have been diagnosed. "
“We’re getting better at identifying under-unidentified populations, so it’s not as if the numbers are rising. It’s more that everyone is going to the number that it should be,” Dr. Max Wiznitzer, a pediatric neurologist at University Hospitals Rainbow Babies and Children’s Hospital in Cleveland, Ohio, what is considered autism today was not diagnosed as such in the past.

When was the last time you heard of someone dying of polio, scarlet fever, rabies, rubella, smallpox - ALL no virtually non-existent because of vaccines.

 

[Mr D]

Autism was just an example, when I get time, I shall find more ons data sets.

And just because a previous vaccine has been successful in the past, it doesn't mean the latest one can be safe.

Every world leader believes in eugenics, and Boris said himself 13 years ago, that he cannot believe we do not discuss overpopulation more.

Thought the solved that by allowing abortions.
You as a parent can get rid of a foetus that appears to not measure up to what you want.

 

[Mr D]

If better detection was the case, autism would be more prevalent within the world population.

Boris has stated himself, that lockdowns and masks will not go away even if everyone has the vaccine.

The NHS will not exist in the next few years anyway.

I was not anti vaccine up until this year, but I've questioned alot this year. And after seeing the world for what it is, it's truly disgusting.

Funny, those who usually say the NHS will not exist in a few years anyway have tended to be wrong.

You will replace the NHS with totally new staff who have not previously worked for the NHS? Or you will create the NHS again just with a rebranding of the name?
Keep the staff and its the same organisation.

I agree that masks won't go away if we all have the vaccine. I'll still be wearing one during windy or cold weather as I have been doing previous years.
Helps me breathe better.

Lockdowns? Then remove the need to have lockdowns. Remove the pressure on the NHS.
From what my brother tells me (being a nurse he probably knows) the situation with beds is pretty bad. Another 10% hospitalised and his team will be sending patients 50 plus miles away by ambulance from A&E. Tying up the ambulance service that much more simply from not enough spare beds for covid patients.

 

[Mr D]

Also, I have never stated the virus wasn't real. And as of March covid was downgraded, so why are people still losing businesses? Why are people dying from untreated illnesses? Why are people dying alone and scared? Why is our economy still being destroyed?

Perhaps those still losing businesses are impacted by the media, by government policy, by customers going elsewhere.
Perhaps the NHS should not have cancelled routine work - however they would have run out of beds likely weeks ago. People dying in hospital corridors better? People being sent long distance in ambulance as patient transport better?

 

[Ian J]

The hospitals are empty, the nurses and doctors are recording dance routines.

You are spouting absolute rubbish. My wife is a nurse in a major hospital and her hospital is packed to the gunwales with covid patients including her ward which is supposed to be for cardiac patients.

The Nightingale Hospitals project hasn't been abandoned but there aren't enough doctors and nurses to staff them which is why they are under utilised

 

[Mr D]

The hospitals are empty, the nurses and doctors are recording dance routines. The nightingale hospital projects were abandoned. Would this happen during a pandemic?

Hospitals empty?

Not the one near me. Not the one my brother works at.
Perhaps yours is - but can they accept people from dozens of miles away in order to fill up the beds?

What was the figure released as of 17th December - average of 89% full nationwide? Thats rather more than empty.

Nightingales are nice to have as a backup but need to be set up in advance.
When Lizzie in Birmingham gets full they can send patients to the NEC. When Leeds gets full they can send patients to Harrogate and so on.
But need to have the assets set up in advance. Pulling staff in - another problem and reduces staff on hand elsewhere. But can conceivably be done.

Trouble is as I've said many times it ties up the ambulances in patient transport. NEC Nightingale near Birmingham covers a large area. Someone at Telford when it gets full needing transport to NEC is tying up an ambulance for 2 or 3 hours in transport. Perhaps for less needy patients 2 at a time could be sent in a single ambulance, not so for more needy patients.

 

[Aniela]

If better detection was the case, autism would be more prevalent within the world population.

So you post data showing that autism has become more prelevant over the years.... yet say that if better detection is the cause, autism would be more prevalent.

Can't make this up if you tried.

 

[Mr D]

So you post data showing that autism has become more prelevant over the years.... yet say that if better detection is the cause, autism would be more prevalent.

Can't make this up if you tried.

Its the Christmas entertainment brought to you by the tinfoil hat brigade of Narnian TV.

 

[wayzgoose]

The hospitals are empty, the nurses and doctors are recording dance routines. The nightingale hospital projects were abandoned. Would this happen during a pandemic?

You are beginning to sound like a very foolish person and would be best doing what you said you were going to do - SHUT UP!

 

[Clodbuster]

I'm afraid the anti-vaxxers and flat earth society are impervious to logical discussion.

 

[Aniela]

whoever is responsible for sending me threatening messages to my personal email, get a life. you sick ****.

I don't for a second condone people doing that but you're on here spreading lies, conspiracy theories and fake information that will result in people dying.

You can't go around doing that and then be upset when someone emails you something bad.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

I will leave you all with this;

ERNESTO ARAÚJO BRAZIL'S MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS SAYS BRAZIL REJECTS 'THE GREAT RESET'
https://mobile.twitter.com/ERNESTOFARAUJO/STATUS/1334918898509082639

Is this the guy who's administration is happily allowing destruction of the rain forest?

 

[Clodbuster]

Boris should have announced he was organising a horse and cart to roam the streets hailing "Bring out your dead".
I have a friend who manages a caravan park on the Norfolk coast. It is fully booked with many from London and no cancellations this morning. We are very clean right now but I expect we will be in T4 next year.

 

[Justin Smith]

You have seen the data breakdown on hospital admissions?

There was just a stat quoted on Talk Radio, number of people under 40 (without a serious existing health condition) who have died so far with Covid is 200, out of 60,000......
Once the top 10 to 15% (in terms of vulnerability who account for 99% of deaths) are vaccinated we should get back to normal. And I mean normal normal, not any new normal bollox = (amongst other things) NO MASKS.

 

[Justin Smith]

TBH I think all these people worrying about any possible side effects of the vaccine are missing the point, so long as we're aiming at protecting the vulnerable via a vaccine (who constitute 99% of the deaths) and not wanting to wait till a high percentage of the population has been vaccinated before getting back to normal. Critically, a report on BBC News said that all these vaccines (incl Oxford) may not be 100% effective in terms of stopping people getting Covid, but they are pretty much 100% effective in preventing serious illness*.
Thus, older people, who are at more risk from the virus and have less to lose from any possible side effects, would be foolish not to take the vaccine.
For younger people the situation is not so clear cut as they are at far less risk from Covid, and have far more to lose from any possible long term side effects.

NOTE : I am not saying the vaccine(s) have side effects and I would take the vaccine, but I am in my 50s, so in the middle of the above scenarios.

*https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55280701
Much was made of the fact that it does not appear to be as effective at stopping infection as the Pfizer vaccine - 70% v 95% effective - but what both do at close to 100% levels is stop serious illness. If people are not dying from Covid or being left with long-term problems, the most dire consequences of the pandemic are over.

 

[Mr D]

There was just a stat quoted on Talk Radio, number of people under 40 (without a serious existing health condition) who have died so far with Covid is 200, out of 60,000......
Once the top 10 to 15% (in terms of vulnerability who account for 99% of deaths) are vaccinated we should get back to normal. And I mean normal normal, not any new normal bollox = (amongst other things) NO MASKS.

So you have not seen the stat and have no clue of its reliability as a figure.

Luckily for you the politicians and medical experts disagree with you. They appear to be aiming for herd immunity. Two, three years maybe. Possibly longer depending on those who do not want to be vaccinated.
Deaths are not the only element that impacts society.

Hospitalisation, time off work, spread of the virus etc. The bits you ignore in your desire to get back to what you want.

I am looking at march or April to be vaccinated. Probably autumn before it's even vaguely safe enough for me to have a British holiday. May just save much of the leave to the following year.

 

[Mr D]

TBH I think all these people worrying about any possible side effects of the vaccine are missing the point, so long as we're aiming at protecting the vulnerable via a vaccine (who constitute 99% of the deaths) and not wanting to wait till a high percentage of the population has been vaccinated before getting back to normal. Critically, a report on BBC News said that all these vaccines (incl Oxford) may not be 100% effective in terms of stopping people getting Covid, but they are pretty much 100% effective in preventing serious illness*.
Thus, older people, who are at more risk from the virus and have less to lose from any possible side effects, would be foolish not to take the vaccine.
For younger people the situation is not so clear cut as they are at far less risk from Covid, and have far more to lose from any possible long term side effects.

NOTE : I am not saying the vaccine(s) have side effects and I would take the vaccine, but I am in my 50s, so in the middle of the above scenarios.

*https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55280701
Much was made of the fact that it does not appear to be as effective at stopping infection as the Pfizer vaccine - 70% v 95% effective - but what both do at close to 100% levels is stop serious illness. If people are not dying from Covid or being left with long-term problems, the most dire consequences of the pandemic are over.

It's the younger people most likely to prevent you getting back to normal quickly.
Perhaps you need to be a lot more persuasive with them regarding getting vaccinated.

 

[Justin Smith]

So you have not seen the stat and have no clue of its reliability as a figure.

Luckily for you the politicians and medical experts disagree with you. They appear to be aiming for herd immunity. Two, three years maybe. Possibly longer depending on those who do not want to be vaccinated.
Deaths are not the only element that impacts society.

Hospitalisation, time off work, spread of the virus etc. The bits you ignore in your desire to get back to what you want.

I am looking at march or April to be vaccinated. Probably autumn before it's even vaguely safe enough for me to have a British holiday. May just save much of the leave to the following year.

If that's what they're aiming at they are absolute idiots who should not be allowed within a million miles of power. TBH if that is their aim I think events (as in mass disobedience) will overtake them anyway. I certainly intend to do so in about 2 or 3 months when the top 10 to 15% in terms of vulnerability have been vaccinated.

On the subject of unreliable stats I would have thought 200 under 40 (with no serious existing conditions) deaths with Covid is about right looking at all the other commonly available data.

 

[Justin Smith]

It's the younger people most likely to prevent you getting back to normal quickly.
Perhaps you need to be a lot more persuasive with them regarding getting vaccinated.

There is no reason, if we lived in a rational world, why that should be the case. The young do not need the vaccine, that's just a fact.

 

[Mr D]

If that's what they're aiming at they are absolute idiots who should not be allowed within a million miles of power. TBH if that is their aim I think events (as in mass disobedience) will overtake them anyway. I certainly intend to do so in about 2 or 3 months when the top 10 to 15% in terms of vulnerability have been vaccinated.

On the subject of unreliable stats I would have thought 200 under 40 (with no serious existing conditions) deaths with Covid is about right looking at all the other commonly available data.

By all means have mass disobedience. Just extends the time for measures to carry on.

You think a set of stats is right based on your belief. Not based on fact.
They could be correct stats or could be made up. Correlation is not going to get you very far.

 

[Mr D]

There is no reason, if we lived in a rational world, why that should be the case. The young do not need the vaccine, that's just a fact.

No.
The young still need the vaccine. They are less at risk of dying from the virus than you or me. That isn't the same as immune. They are still capable of being ill, they are still capable of needing hospital treatment. They are still vulnerable to organ damage or long covid. Just less likely to die.

Get your facts right before spouting them as facts. Your ideology is not controlling the country regardless of what you want to believe.

 

[DontAsk]

They appear to be aiming for herd immunity.

If that's what they're aiming at they are absolute idiots who should not be allowed within a million miles of power. T

You clearly don't understand herd immunity, what it is and how it is achieved.

Why do you think it's such a bad thing? How do you think it is achieved?

Do you think herd immunity to diseases like Measles is a bad thing? How do you propose to protect us from Measles if not through herd immunity?

 

[Jasondb]

I went alternative 20 years ago, got fed up with GPs telling me i looked fine and felt unwell.
I had holiday vaccs in the 90s and felt unwell after exercise from that day forward and a girl at work who had the same vaccs got a kidney infection.
I studied the alternative side of health and changed my lifestyle and also have a ESP property. I have helped people with digestive issues, back problems, infertility and other issues. I know where the virus came from and who released it yet far too dangerous go public.
I don't like vaccines full stop, too much money and no testing for anti-body development.
Each one has to make their own choice. I will only take a vaccine if not having one stops me from doing other important things.

 

[Mr D]

I went alternative 20 years ago, got fed up with GPs telling me i looked fine and felt unwell.
I had holiday vaccs in the 90s and felt unwell after exercise from that day forward and a girl at work who had the same vaccs got a kidney infection.
I studied the alternative side of health and changed my lifestyle and also have a ESP property. I have helped people with digestive issues, back problems, infertility and other issues. I know where the virus came from and who released it yet far too dangerous go public.
I don't like vaccines full stop, too much money and no testing for anti-body development.
Each one has to make their own choice. I will only take a vaccine if not having one stops me from doing other important things.

What is an ESP property?

 

[Aniela]

I know where the virus came from and who released it yet far too dangerous go public.

Of course you do.

You should not be allowed to engager peoples health with the quackery you believe in. You'll kill someone, one day.

 

[Ian J]

I know where the virus came from and who released it yet far too dangerous go public.

Was it aliens?

 

[Justin Smith]

No.
The young still need the vaccine. They are less at risk of dying from the virus than you or me. That isn't the same as immune. They are still capable of being ill, they are still capable of needing hospital treatment. They are still vulnerable to organ damage or long covid. Just less likely to die.

Get your facts right before spouting them as facts. Your ideology is not controlling the country regardless of what you want to believe.

I will be taking any vaccine offered, but that is because I am in my 50s. It is very unlikely that young people (under 40, even more so under 30) without existing health conditions will get seriously ill from Covid, and even less likely they will die, that is just an indisputable fact.

 

[Ian J]

I will be taking any vaccine offered, but that is because I am in my 50s.

I wonder when they will get round to youngsters like yourself. My wife is a nurse in a large hospital and as of last night not a single patient or staff member there had been vaccinated. Perhaps they have to wait until all of the celebrities have been done first

 

[Clodbuster]

I wonder when they will get round to youngsters like yourself. My wife is a nurse in a large hospital and as of last night not a single patient or staff member there had been vaccinated. Perhaps they have to wait until all of the celebrities have been done first

Not sure where you live but there are 3 homes near here and all have been vaccinated. The staff as well. I've been notified to expect a call mid February.
Perhaps yours is the box that got thrown away.

 

[DontAsk]

I went alternative 20 years ago, got fed up with GPs telling me i looked fine and felt unwell.

Alternative what? Please don't say medicine. If it can be shown to work (double blind randomised trials) then it is medicine. Anything else is just woo.

I had holiday vaccs in the 90s and felt unwell after exercise from that day forward and a girl at work who had the same vaccs got a kidney infection.

How many people got infections that day who did not have the vaccine?

I know where the virus came from and who released it yet far too dangerous go public.

That's the best yet.

I don't like vaccines full stop, too much money and no testing for anti-body development.
Each one has to make their own choice. I will only take a vaccine if not having one stops me from doing other important things.

Ignorant and selfish.

 

[Mr D]

I will be taking any vaccine offered, but that is because I am in my 50s. It is very unlikely that young people (under 40, even more so under 30) without existing health conditions will get seriously ill from Covid, and even less likely they will die, that is just an indisputable fact.

Less likely does not mean no chance.
Have never suggested they are more likely to die.
They will however risk illness, long covid, organ damage, hospitalisation and of course death.
The last being the element they are known to have lower chance of it happening.

But you cannot know who will have any of that happen to them.

 

[Clodbuster]

 

[Deleted member 59730]

Its what the government did not do that is important.

When the virus was raging in North Italy the FCO refused to put it on the advisory list of countries like China. Dozens of schools in Cornwall had skiing trips planned and could not cancel because the FCO said it was safe. All the early cases and deaths in Cornwall were from Italy.

 

[Clodbuster]

Sure- the general population is NOT at fault at all. The expected response from you. I'm sure Corbyn would have been perfect.

 

[Deleted member 59730]

The expected response from you. I'm sure Corbyn would have been perfect.

What on earth makes you think that? I've never voted Labour in my life.

 

[Mr D]

Its what the government did not do that is important.

When the virus was raging in North Italy the FCO refused to put it on the advisory list of countries like China. Dozens of schools in Cornwall had skiing trips planned and could not cancel because the FCO said it was safe. All the early cases and deaths in Cornwall were from Italy.

And the people taking the school children could not read websites or watch the news.
Could not cancel? So those who did cancel perhaps saved lives.