Using SIM cards in GSM Gateway???

[graemepirie]

In the office I have some GSM Gateways with T-Mobile sim cards in them. I use these purely so that we can use normal handsets for mobile calls and so that we can send SMS messages through PCs. I can't see any difference in these to a mobile, except that there are other connections where I can plug in handset & PC.

I've just had a nasty letter from T-Mobile saying that I am not allowed to use these boxes on their network & I have 5 days to stop doing so. They refer to an obscure term in their conditions which says "operating, whether directly or through a third party, any device to route or re-route, voice, data or other services on, from or to the network" - sounds like a desription of every mobile handset to me!!! I am not "re-routing" any calls, or offering any services to anyone else.

Anyone come across this before? It's a very major issue for us.

 

[cjd]

Yup, their T&Cs prevent you doing it. It's quite normal activity.

 

[graemepirie]

But I'm not "routing or re-routing calls". Effectively all I have is a mobile in a box with a handset & PC attached. The terms say I can't "route calls", which I don't, there's no mention at all of SIM boxes of GSM gateways. So how am I breaking the terms?

How do they know what I'm using anyway?

 

[cjd]

You'll have to ask them - they all have different ways of doing it.

 

[BrecklandGroup]

Telcos' dont like you doing this as its against their T&C's.

There is a way around this, but its not meant for the smaller companies. We used to reslled millions of minutes per month like this, the sims go in one box and via the internet it moves the calls to different areas around the uk where you have installed extra boxes - they still catch on, but you get a lot longer out of it before the sims are shut down.

They can tell that all the calls are originiting from the same spot, which is a real giveaway.

 

[graemepirie]

Telcos' dont like you doing this as its against their T&C's.

There is a way around this, but its not meant for the smaller companies. We used to reslled millions of minutes per month like this, the sims go in one box and via the internet it moves the calls to different areas around the uk where you have installed extra boxes - they still catch on, but you get a lot longer out of it before the sims are shut down.

Thanks - but I still can't see how I'm breaking their terms. I could achieve most of what I'm doing now by using PC Suite on a Nokia & answering a mobile rather than the handset we've got attached to the gateway. The terms say I cannot "use equipment to route or re-route calls or data" I'm not, all calls are received & originated here.

They can tell that all the calls are originiting from the same spot, which is a real giveaway.

So they don't "know" I have gateways? I assumed the box sent out an identifier or something.

 

[cjd]

So they don't "know" I have gateways? I assumed the box sent out an identifier or something.

They use the International Mobile Equipment Identity - IMEI.

 

[BrecklandGroup]

They use the International Mobile Equipment Identity - IMEI.

Most gateways have the option to clone an existing phones EMEI if you find alternative firmware. Doing so is very naughty though and could land you in more trouble - upto 5 years at Her Maj's pleasure

 

[blloyd]

Is not IMEI cloning illegal as opposed to just "naughty"?

 

[BrecklandGroup]

Is not IMEI cloning illegal as opposed to just "naughty"?

Yes, hence my reference to HMP.

 

[gentech5]

using a gsm gateway is against the t&c of most mobile operators. The telco laws are still a bit shady about it, but if the providers say you can't.. you simply can't.

I dunno for t-mobile, but vodafone, orange n O2 clearly stipulate that using their sim in gateways and such is not allowed.

And you are rite to be confused about the terms.. "use equipment to route or re-route calls or data". It's not obvious until you know the story about it.

The keywords are 'equipment' and 'routing' here, meaning gsm gateways in general.

the gateway is basically routing calls n data. Unlike a mobile, you cannot answer or make a call directly from it. Even if you have that option, it's basically the computer doing that job.

It doesn't have a mic, speaker, keypads, all the stuff that makes up a proper mobile, so it's not a mobile( can't even be legally called a mobile).

The gateway is just exchanging data from the gsm provider, to the pc or directly to the internet... and vice versa.. so it's classified as a router.

Also what I can remember, the telcos say it's because all wireless devices need a license to operate over certain signal bands, like for mobile communications.

Mobile phones already inherit their licenses under a number of complex structures and regulations.. and gsm gateways don't.

so mobile handsets are classified as transmitting/receiving devices...coz that's what they do.. and gateways as routers.. well something along that line.

any normal handsets CAN route calls and data, but they are still operating as mobile phones (transmitting/receiving devices licensed to do so).

I guess the clue is in the name itself, it's called a 'gateway' for a reason.

truth is, many people/companies used gateways extensively for routing calls over the internet, as BrecklandGroup mentioned. It was a big business until recently, I don't know if it still goes on. That's why they don't like anyone to use gateways.

best solution, use an old headset connected to your pc..

and thanks to anyone reading my post, i can go in more details if am asked, especially the legal bit;-).. i've waited years for a chance to be able to explain this stuff.. don't actually get the chance to bring it up in conversations normally.

 

[BrecklandGroup]

and thanks to anyone reading my post, i can go in more details if am asked, especially the legal bit;-).. i've waited years for a chance to be able to explain this stuff.. don't actually get the chance to bring it up in conversations normally.

Thank you for taking the time to explain , very informative.

 

[cjd]

To be frank, they don't care how you do it, the mobile provider's problem is that they have sold you a SIM card and a package designed for a single user, based on single user average call patterns. If you plug it into a bit of kit that allows you to share that SIM with many users, they loose money on the package because the usage is much higher.

 

[benjamin_c]

it's not illegal to use gateways for calls, only for using them to route calls. if you're only using it to reduce landline to mobile costs then it's perfectly legal. if you don't believe me then go to http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/gsm_gateways/

 

[cjd]

Not quite Ben.

It's illegal to resell calls using a GSM gateway - for instance if my company used the gateway to route mobile calls for our customers it would be illegal and I could be prosecuted.

It's not illegal for a single business to do it within it's own organisation because it's not re-selling. But it IS likely to be against the T&Cs of the contract you have with your provider because the SIM you bought is intended for individual use not shared use - although the T&Cs they'll hit you with are likely to be to do with call routing. They will catch you by monitoring average usage patterns.

 

[graemepirie]

Interesting stuff.

It's perfectly legal to use "private" gateways but illegal to resell any use of them.

In my case I have 3 "unlimited" SIMs & used 3000 min & 3000 SMS in total last month - nowhere near their "fair usage" guidelines. They have no problem with my usage, they told me they picked it up via the IMEI & have a blanket "detect a gateway - switch it off" policy.

I hear what you say about gateways being a router. I consider that a play on words. Applying that definition could as easily apply to bluetooth headsets or Nokia PC Suite.

It's not the case that all operators ban it. O2 for example have a specific clause in their terms that allow the private use of gateways. (Although elsewhere they have a term that says written confirmation is required).

 

[cjd]

Just to finish the conversation on legality of re-selling via GSM

" IT IS DECLARED THAT:​

1. On its proper construction, the Public Mobile Operator Licence issued to Vodafone on 28 January 2002 under section 1(1) of the Wireless Telegraphy Act 1949 does not authorise the use of GSM Gateways (including commercial multi-use GSM Gateways ("COMUGs")) for providing a telecommunications service by way of business to another person.​

2. In the absence of a licence or exemption granted or made under section 8 of the Wireless Telegraphy Act 2006, the use of GSM gateways (including COMUGs) for the purpose of providing a telecommunications service by way of business to another person is unlawful.​

LORD JUSTICE MUMMERY
LORD JUSTICE LAWRENCE COLLINS
and
SIR JOHN CHADWICK
____________________
Between:

OFFICE OF COMMUNICATIONS
T-MOBILE (UK) LIMITED
Appellants

- and -

FLOE TELECOM LIMITED (in liquidation) http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2009/47.html
​

 

[cjd]

And for the use of GSM Gateways without re-selling (ie own use, within company). This is Vodafone's policy:

GSM Gateway Commercial Policy

A GSM Gateway is any equipment containing a SIM card which enables the routing of calls from fixed apparatus to mobile equipment by establishing a mobile to mobile call.
In view of the uncertainty over the legality of certain types of GSM Gateways, Vodafone’s policy is not to accept applications for the operation of GSM Gateways on its network. Customers should be aware that where a GSM Gateway is connected to the Vodafone network in breach of this policy, Vodafone has and will continue to disconnect SIM cards that it believes are being used illegally.

http://online.vodafone.co.uk/dispat...fpb=true&_pageLabel=template12&pageID=TC_0032

 

[graemepirie]

This is O2:

"GSM Gateway"
means a device (not designed or adapted to be capable of being used whilst in motion) for wireless telegraphy designed or adapted to be connected by wireless telegraphy to the O2 wireless telecommunications network or the wireless telecommunications system of another network operator and used solely for the purpose of sending and receiving messages conveyed by means of the O2 wireless telecommunications.

9.2.4 not, without the prior written consent of O2 which may be withheld at O2's absolute discretion, establish, install or use a GSM Gateway so that telecommunication services are provided via the GSM Gateway to third parties; and

9.3 The Customer may establish, install or use a GSM Gateway for its own private purposes only, provided that it adheres at all times to O2's policies in respect of the use of private GSM Gateways

 

[Naughty Vend]

I think you'll see much more of this revenue protection in the coming months / years from the network provider.

Personally I just met with the "Three" Regional Sales Manager and her boss responsible for the "North" (God I hate that phrase), in reference to a data only package and they offered me a contract which I answered as being unsuitable when for £5 or £10 a month unlimited data was available on PAYG style non-contractual sims. The answer was very simple that this will come to a halt and they showed me how, it's a target of the company to "take down" companies like security firms using 3G remote webcams for monitoring equipment etc. with PAYG market sims under the misuse and fair use clauses in their contracts.

Ended up with someone else on £3.00 a month and £6 a Gb pro-rata over the whole estate of sims, which is less than PAYG so at least they are listenting and no doubt a product for GSM gateways will be launched soon enough.

 

[graemepirie]

Here's a thought....

Surely a USB "stick" is a router as much as a GSM Gateway is?

I'm thinking of T-Mob here, who don't specifically ban Gateways but have a general "no routing" term.

So how can they sell these but at the same time claim their terms ban "routers".

And another thought - I wonder if a USB stick can be used in place of a gateway?

 

[JoannaB]

Whilst researching this topic I found this article which gives information about a product that Vodafone Sells that is a version of a premicell - it also provides additional information about the use of GSM Gateways - I also found out that you can buy GSM Gateways from O2 Ireland Website

telecomsnews.co.uk/using-gsm-gateways-on-vodafone/

There are also the many cases of GSM Gateway resellers who clearly advertise that they have relationships with the cariers and can legally sell, without penalty, SIM cards and plans for use in their gateways.

 

[joe-bloggs]

[FONT=&quot]Hi All,
I’m due to set-up my own telesales business and have heard about gsm gateways and that they can reduce you landline to mobile calls down by at least 50%. I’ve found these guys Packet Media and they seem to install them free on a contract term?? Anybody had any experiences with GSM Gateways???[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT]

 

[abrarji_007]

I would like to run bulk sms campaigner from tesco and Vodaphone simcards.

I would to ask you about suitable solution to avoid network operator cannot shut down simcard while sending text messages.

 

[leemason]

Using GSM gateways used to be quite a good cost saving measure. But now that land line to mobile charges have dropped so much (below 2p per minute in some cases) the benefits aren't really there any more.