USA - Abortion Rights Banned!

Should women have the right to choose an abortion?

  • Yes

    Votes: 9 81.8%
  • No

    Votes: 2 18.2%

  • Total voters
    11
No foetus is an independent human being until it is viable (able to survive) outside the womb
Why is that the criterion?

For one thing it means that a human being is defined by the available medical care. Was a 24 week foetus not a human being fifty years ago but is one now? Is a 24 week (or even more) foetus in a remote part a third world country not a human being but one where people have good access to post natal care human?

I think the obvious criterion is brain function.
 
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Not a easy debate by anyones standards personally its hard to get your head round the US sometimes when in the same week the courts I believe ruled citizens have the right to carry. The gun lobby was cock a hop while the president showed dismay.

So maybe the question sholud be is the US just going backwards
 
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Why is that the criterion?

For one thing it means that a human being is defined by the available medical care. Was a 24 week foetus not a human being fifty years ago but is one now? Is a 24 week (or even more) foetus in a remote part a third world country not a human being but one where people have good access to post natal care human?

I think the obvious criterion is brain function.
I was replying to the comment that a foetus is an independent human being. It is not independent if it relies solely on a specific other human to survive.

From conception every foetus is a human being.
 
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So maybe the question sholud be is the US just going backwards
I think what is happening in the US is that it is becoming a lot more polarised.

If you look at the statements made by many politicians there on "culture war" issues they are designed to make them look better to their own side rather than to bring over voters in the middle. Both sides are more concerned with virtue signalling than debate or compromise. They also believe there opponents are evil.

My fear is that the same thing is happenning here. So far it has mostly been limited to the "left": from "never kiss a Tory" to "worse than Nazis", but it is getting worse.

Can decisions in the US have an influence on the global pro life lobby?

No, because of cultural, political and religious differences. The political difference is the level of polarisation.

The religious difference is that the largest religious group within the pro-life lobby are American evangelicals, while other Christian or Christianish countries it is Catholics or other mainstream denominations, and in the rest of the world other religions. You are talking about people with very different attitudes: American evangelicals tend to be creationists, believe in using law to enforce morality (and are obsessed with sexual morality - at least they talk about it a LOT), are predominantly right wing, etc.

What I think it would influence are people who are undecided over the issue. We usually seem to follow whatever the Americans do.
 
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For a number of years I looked at the floor and avoided the well meaning people with hugely unpleasant big photographs in Belfast City Centre - All I wanted was to go from the theatre to Tesco across the road and twice a day I had to run the gauntlet. They didn't do anything, apart from get in the way, and point at their pictures, but the pictures often put me off my food (well, they tried and it didn't work).

It took years for me to realise that the reason they were there was because the building was where terminations were done.

I cannot imagine the mental anguish people needing abortions go through - making the decision is hard enough without other people trying to convince you it is you that is wrong.

No matter what my personal beliefs are, the person carrying the child should be free in any civilised society to decide for themselves. If it is against the law, then that decision must be even harder.

We often hear white folk trying to side with the black community over race, but no matter the intention, it cannot be done, because even empathy is so hard. Somebody who has terminal cancer can speak with authority on cancer issues, but somebody who has not experienced it is simply unable to really understand it. With races and health, we seem to understand it - we can support the basic premise, and it works, but abortion seems to really cross every line. All we have is the law. If people are within the law, then I think their views should be respected. For all sorts of reasons we can disagree but opinion doesn't mean much?
 
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Somebody who has terminal cancer can speak with authority on cancer issues, but somebody who has not experienced it is simply unable to really understand it
So oncologists cannot speak with authority on cancer issues unless they have had cancer themselves? What about people who have looked after people with cancer?
We often hear white folk trying to side with the black community over race
Of course it can be done. We would still have race based slavery if it was not done. If we applied your rule to that only slaves and slave owners would have been entitled to an opinion on the abolition of slavery.
It took years for me to realise that the reason they were there was because the building was where terminations were done.
Abortion was illegal in NI until 2020: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-politics-56041849 except in very limited circumstances so why was there a specialist unit.
but abortion seems to really cross every line
Applying that principle I think its fine if the baby agrees to it.

No matter what my personal beliefs are, the person carrying the child should be free in any civilised society to decide for themselves
Firstly, why?

Secondly you have just expressed an opinion even though you have not been through it.

Your argument is essentially that "lived experience" outweighs facts and arguments.
 
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I'm not sure if I've been seeing selective images. When images are posted of the rival views in media the pro abortion seem to be mostly female whilst the pro life look to be mainly male.
I'm of the opinion that it is up to the women to decide. Men DO have a history of enjoying a short period and running away leaving the woman forced to carry the can by men who have historically dictated to them.
 
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At this moment, doctors are trying to terminate the life of a person and others are trying to prolong it. It went to court and now will soon be back in court. If these people cannot decide something very important like this when they are so close, what is the point of us discussing the policy of a foreign government even more distant from real life?

Many people sincerley believe their opinion is the correct one. Others disagree with them. My opinion does not count and may be wrong. Others seem to think their opinion holds more weight or is more worthy.

Going through people's posts a sentence at a time doesn't advance anything. None of us are likely to change our mind.
 
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At this moment, doctors are trying to terminate the life of a person and others are trying to prolong it. It went to court and now will soon be back in court. If these people cannot decide something very important like this when they are so close, what is the point of us discussing the policy of a foreign government even more distant from real life?

Many people sincerley believe their opinion is the correct one. Others disagree with them. My opinion does not count and may be wrong. Others seem to think their opinion holds more weight or is more worthy.

Going through people's posts a sentence at a time doesn't advance anything. None of us are likely to change our mind.

forum
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noun
  1. 1.
    a meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.
    "we hope these pages act as a forum for debate"
 
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I'm not sure if I've been seeing selective images. When images are posted of the rival views in media the pro abortion seem to be mostly female whilst the pro life look to be mainly male.
Is that selection in the media? The pro-life people I have known are roughly equally male and female, and, if anything, the women tend to take a harder line on it.

Men DO have a history of enjoying a short period and running away leaving the woman forced to carry the can by men who have historically dictated to them.
True, but we also have institutions to stop that. it is the main reason why marriage is a legal institution rather than just a personal/community/ religious thing. IMO that needs to change, but now we have contraceptives, paternity tests and more ability to track people down.
 
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