The hiring nightmare!

[paul_h]

Hey guys, we are having a nightmare hiring good people...

I have a natural hatred towards recruitment agents (money for nothing!).

How do people currently go about doing it, and what are the biggest issues you face??

 

[plymgary]

I hired someone through word-of-mouth She was crap though so I ditched her. Absolutely dreadful actually.

I learnt that I'd never hire family and friends, and when recruiting look at different avenues. Where you live, do you have a 'spotted <town name>' on Facebook. A lot of the local community are on these. You could post what you're looking for and invite people to leave a message if they're interested. You could then contact them and ask them for the relevant information (cv's, experience etc.).

If it were me, I'd then make them do some sort of assessment during an interview to make sure they're not as useless as the first girl I hired.

 

[Richie N]

Hey guys, we are having a nightmare hiring good people...

I have a natural hatred towards recruitment agents (money for nothing!).

How do people currently go about doing it, and what are the biggest issues you face??

Using an agency is hardly "money for nothing!"

 

[SwindonSteve]

Using an agency is hardly "money for nothing!"

It is if results don't justify the cost...

 

[PuddlePayroll]

Career builder and Indeed got me over 300 applicants for an admin role.
I whittled them down to 10 by getting rid of those with some strict criteria.
Phoned the 10 for a telephone interview to see who sounded like they were interested.
Interviewed 3 of the best and found someone really good.

 

[Richie N]

It is if results don't justify the cost...

Maybe you need to look at your internal recruitment process rather than blame an agency.

 

[SwindonSteve]

Maybe you need to look at your internal recruitment process rather than blame an agency.

Job done. Recruitment consultants aren't in it....

 

[tony84]

I always said i would never hire friends or family... I took someone on last week who used to be my boss years ago. I think i would be mor nervous interviewing someone, than they would be being interviewed.

I can see the point in recruitment agencies as i have worked with some useless people in the past and if someone can whittle down the numbers to those most suited then its saving you however many hours. I have no idea how much they cost but if its £500 and they have saved you 10 hours to get 3-4 decent people in front of you then it could be money well spent?

 

[Vectis]

I always said i would never hire friends or family... I took someone on last week who used to be my boss years ago. I think i would be mor nervous interviewing someone, than they would be being interviewed.

I can see the point in recruitment agencies as i have worked with some useless people in the past and if someone can whittle down the numbers to those most suited then its saving you however many hours. I have no idea how much they cost but if its £500 and they have saved you 10 hours to get 3-4 decent people in front of you then it could be money well spent?

I thought it was a bit more than £500, more like 15% of their first year's salary?

 

[HorseLatitudes]

It depends how highly you value your time but I'd say recruitment agencies are very very useful. Well the good ones anyway.

It depends on the role you're looking to fill but have you tried Linked-In?

 

[tony84]

I thought it was a bit more than £500, more like 15% of their first year's salary?

I have no idea how much it is. If your taking someone on who is earning £20k a year it cant possibly cost £3k can it? That does seem a little bit steep, but having never really been through the process of employing someone, im probably not best placed to answer.

 

[paul_h]

How have you managed the applications when they have come in?

Do you use any software to do this? Or just do it all via emails??

I did a job post via monster and got about 200 applicants - it's a nightmare to go through and sort!!

Paul

 

[tony84]

Have you put an advert on your website/facebook/twitter account if you have any for your business?

Have you ever had anyone email CVs to you? Do you have any of those to go through?

Gumtree maybe?

 

[TODonnell]

Post on a job site. Use filters: Fluent English, Work Permit, less than 30 minutes away, Degree, applicant refers to actual job description in the application, and so on.

If you get lots of apps, start by pruning people you'd never use, then the more mediocre. How many interviews can you fit in your working week? Then that's the number of apps you keep.

I've read most job applications are terrible, these days, so I don't see how it can be a big problem. Just weed 'em out!

 

[morespace]

A Jobcentre vacancy is completely free, but you generally have to wade through the candidates.

 

[PuddlePayroll]

I have no idea how much it is. If your taking someone on who is earning £20k a year it cant possibly cost £3k can it? That does seem a little bit steep, but having never really been through the process of employing someone, im probably not best placed to answer.

Yes it really is that much! Agencies will vary but 15% is 'normal' with a reduction clause if they leave after x months.

 

[tony84]

Wow! 1 placement a week and your raking it in.

 

[Richie N]

Yes it really is that much! Agencies will vary but 15% is 'normal' with a reduction clause if they leave after x months.

Not all sectors charge 15%

 

[Richie N]

Job done. Recruitment consultants aren't in it....

Agencies only introduce candidates, it's the employer that employs them, so if you have made a few bad choices in the past, it's easy to use the agency as an excuse!

 

[confused-new-starter]

I think that the point is that lots of Agencies claim to do something that they just can't...

As an example I work in IT (server support), there is an awful lot of people who apply for jobs, - to a recruitment company, and the recruitment company then pass over those CVs seemingly without even a cursory glance.

So you get CV's from web developers sent to you for jobs for email server supporting.
(or visa versa).

I have on my CV some experience with using scripting languages, I'm constantly receiving notifications from recruiters that I'd be perfect for xyz web site creating, software writing job. -it's clear that they haven't even read the CV, let alone understand anything about either my skills or the actual skills needed to do that job. -they are bad recruiters because they just do not understand the industry they are working in

Long story short, an awful lot of people think that they are people people, or that they are good at interviewing, or think that they will be the next James Caan, they figure that they'll get CVs sent to them, and just forward them to companies taking a cut. or just make some software to do it for them sit back and watch the money roll in.

And I'll never forget the guy sent by a recruiting company to a software house for interview who was a butcher, but thought that he'd be good at IT because his brother was good at it.

The whole point of using a recruitment company is to have the wastes of space weeded out BEFORE candidates are sent to interview. lots of times this just doesn't happen.

what's the point in paying thousands in commissions based on salaries in the first year if your still having to wade through piles and piles of CVs just as if you'd stuck an add on jobserve?

 

[ethical PR]

If that's your experience with agencies I would definitely change your agency. In PR there are a lot of specialist agency but only 5 - 8 that I would look at using based on the quality of their service, ability to select candidates that meet the brief and the ongoing support they offer.

I've never used an agency that just forward's CV (what would be the point of employing an agency to do that?).

 

[Nuno]

Remember to throw half the applications away without looking at them. Don't want to employ unlucky people...

I'll get my coat.....

 

[stender]

As with any sector, there are good and bad. I've used agencies to find me jobs and also to find me staff and there are good and bad. Often more bad than good but there are good ones out there.

One thing I always wondered, is there anything stopping you saying to a potential hire," come in and work next week (paid) and we'll see how you go before making a decision". Lots of people are great in interview but lacking once you employ them. That would be a good way to evaluate. Obviously only if they arent currently working,

 

[confused-new-starter]

As far as I know the company did stop using that recruitment agency,
but, it wasn't just one single agency. That was a couple of stories from different recruitment companies in different parts of the country.

But you're right, if a recruitment company isn't working for you then you;re perfectly free to change that recruitment company.

I guess that half the problem is that a lot of what we'll call these shyster companies through enough muck at the wall that some of it sticks. the company that I said about sending me adverts to be a web developer, of a software developer in many many languages is actually the recruitment company that found me the job where I work now. I suspect that they operated on that same basis, throw all the CV's you can at a place, then let the company pick through all the CVs same as if they'd just gone to job serve. then when the company has done all the work and sorted through all the CVs and actually found the candidate, the recruitment agency sits back and collects commission -after all they DID put the candidate in touch with the company...

I'm not saying that the whole industry works like that.

@stender no, there is nothing to stop you hiring a person and putting them on a probation period, where I work you get hired, and have a 6 month probation period, - you're basically employed, but not with any real security, there is a 1 week notice period from either side. if after 6 months you;re still working you;re clearly good enough to stay so you get a notice period of 1 month to give you and the company a little more security.
it could be that you prove to be not a good employee and are sacked in the first week. it could be that you;re still there ten years later.

 

[stender]

Yes was aware of probation but meant to make it more of a tester than give them the job initially.

 

[Green Onion]

Remember to throw half the applications away without looking at them. Don't want to employ unlucky people...

I'll get my coat.....

I think this is my favorite post on UKBF

 

[Blood Lust]

Hey guys, we are having a nightmare hiring good people...

I have a natural hatred towards recruitment agents (money for nothing!).

How do people currently go about doing it, and what are the biggest issues you face??

Ask the future recruits manager and colleagues what skills, experience and qualities are needed to do the job. Add in things which will be needed over the next couple of years if relevant.

Then write a job description detailing what its about, who they will be responsible too, wages and benefits, etc. Then write the job specification listing the skills, experience and qualities. This is the basis of your advert which should be placed where the type of person you wish to recruit will likely look.

Match CVs up to the specification and select the best ones for interview. Use the interview to ask probing questions to make sure they are right for the job. Also check their personality to make sure they will fit in with their future team if successful.

Tips
If they have a lot of past employers ask why and check them out. It might be bad luck, it might be they like to change frequently, but it usually indicates a problem with them.

Toxic employees like to work at the types of organisation which will let them get away with their toxic behaviour and which won't focus their attention on their underlying problems. I wont explain why the following makes them take their application no further but the art to securing decent employees is to tell them what rewards and recognition systems you have (employee of the month, bonuses for individual excellence, praise during meetings, etc). Also point out there are times when they will be expected to work on their own and as well as times when they will have to work as part of a team.

Finally use your gut instinct. If it says theres something wrong with an employee (they are lying, manipulating you, are strange, etc) then there usually is a problem with them.

 

[ffox]

Blood Lust has hit the main points -
1. Job Description
2. Job Specification
3. Candidate Specification
If you haven't got the time a good recruitment agency will help you. You have to spend either time or money on recruitment, if you don't you'll get poor results. A good appointment, continuously employed for 8 months will just about return a break even on recruitment costs. If you want someone for less than eight months consider using a temp or contractor. The daily cost will be higher and recruitment/training costs will be less, but you will be paying for imported expertise.
If you can keep a good employee for 2 years your efforts will have been worthwhile.
Don't forget that what seems simple and logical to you is only easy because it is part of the jigsaw of your whole business. An employee will need time and mentoring before they can deliver a passable service to your liking. This applies even at the lowest function level.

 

[frogjump]

do the interview in personal which would help you grasp lots of details how the person would be looking like i guess.

 

[nelioneil]

As with any sector, there are good and bad. I've used agencies to find me jobs and also to find me staff and there are good and bad. Often more bad than good but there are good ones out there.

One thing I always wondered, is there anything stopping you saying to a potential hire," come in and work next week (paid) and we'll see how you go before making a decision". Lots of people are great in interview but lacking once you employ them. That would be a good way to evaluate. Obviously only if they arent currently working,

Actually I'm terrible at interviews so this would be great for me, when I've got the job (usually through no interview or a 10 min interview) ive done a great job for the employer but I generally don't get the chance to show that, because after all, everything is judged after a 40 min interview.

 

[justintime]

Actually I'm terrible at interviews so this would be great for me, when I've got the job (usually through no interview or a 10 min interview) ive done a great job for the employer but I generally don't get the chance to show that, because after all, everything is judged after a 40 min interview.

In a previous employment me and my boss interviewed for someone to maintain our online store. One guy we both liked came across as shy, timid and not very confident. However we were impressed with his skills and took a chance in employing him. Best decision we ever made as he was brilliant at his job.

 

[nelioneil]

In a previous employment me and my boss interviewed for someone to maintain our online store. One guy we both liked came across as shy, timid and not very confident. However we were impressed with his skills and took a chance in employing him. Best decision we ever made as he was brilliant at his job.

My longest job was for two and a half years as a "temp" and I did not even interview for that, and I left on my accord. If I was interviewed, there was a great chance I would have not been offered the position.

I have been in my current job for about 18 months, I had a 5 minute interview as someone left over the weekend without giving notice and they wanted someone to start as soon as possible. I was the only person invited, and I started the next day. So I really can relate to the guy who you gave a chance even after the interview. Personally I would like to show my abilities rather than locked away in a room in a pressured situation.

I'm looking for my next step up in my Accounting career but never get pass the first stage of interviews, and the feedback is week and random. I really think trial days or weeks are very underrated. I would happily work for free during the trial.

 

[SarahDinnage]

What sort of people are you looking for. We'd need to understand why you are having the problem. Is it skill or personality?

IMO recruitment agencies are good value (however I run a specialist one), you say they are money for nothing but actually they are going to end your nightmare by finding the people, then working out who you would think is good. If it saves you valuable time and advertising spend then its potentially worth it but it depends on the role and its value in your business. How long can your business afford to have either a lack of staff or a lack of decent staff. How much of your time are you wasting trying to find them?

If the issue is the cost of agencies - have you thought about using an advertising service via a recruitment agency. There are companies that will design and run your advert, run it wherever they mainly advertise, screen the responses and make sure that on paper the people coming through are suitable. There are pros and cons to it. It can be a lot cheaper so is worth looking in to if you are of the "recruitment is money for nothing" school.