SEO ripoff???

[QVA - Emma]

New thread so as not to hijack this one.

http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=127288

Emma

 

[I, Brian]

fisicx, are you directly linking to these link farms because you're a little naive about the impact the links you post will have, or are you trying to give Fiona a little boost to her (admittedly quite lamentable) link sources?

 

[Ali-v-8]

Hmmm Graham your secret chivalry is now out

few points i'd like to make.
I wouldn't touch a contract for the term "jewellery" for less than £5k start. way too competitive and variable terms like silver gold etc.
That aside the work is poor.
eg the link at the foot directs to the index.php extention of your website.
the 301 redirect to www. not been done.
internal links done in excess.
i could go on and on.
Point is you need it fixing.
You already paid.
get them to finish it.

Buy the way. If its a shopping site that you paid less than £1000 then ist probably not a bespoke solution. You may be tied into monthly payments which include your hosting.
The will give you the front end but you may find they own the back

fisicx, are you directly linking to these link farms because you're a little naive about the impact the links you post will have, or are you trying to give Fiona a little boost to her (admittedly quite lamentable) link sources?

 

[eventdomain]

Unbelievable.

People are commenting on a company and outing them as being rogues on
the basis of 2 weeks SEO work and a few so called dodgy links.

You should all be ashamed of yourselves

Nope, just commenting on what we've been told by another member. If a member is saying the firm in question is holding her website to ransom, who are we to disbelieve her? Is she lying? Why would she lie about this, what has she to gain?

You see what I'm saying here.....

Ofcourse it could all be false, but there was an air of panic in her posts, and advice was given. I think 'Outing and Rogues' is a little harsh, as don't forget we are just answering a post here - know what I'm saying

 

[Annoying Donkey]

Fiona, Can we clarify - you paid 2000 for 4 months SEO, no other items included? Website design, hosting, or anything? In the other thread, I made the assumption that you had gone for a free/cheap website and cheap SEO - 750pa and that you got what you paid for. You did not contradict me.

Be very careful of statements like this:

The very thing everyone shares is the 'demand for results'. By law, the service provider must show a duty of care to their work, bcos they are being paid - this firm didn't do that with this particular service.

and

You must get that site copy!!!! You want the MySQL access, and Hosting control panel access. They cannot deny you this information - if they refuse then threaten to get a solicitor involved.

You need to analyse any agreement you have with this company before calling in solicitors - the only people who win in a legal case are the solicitors. If you hire a solicitor and take them to the small claims you can expect solicitor costs of 3000-4000 for a simple case. I've handled my own cases, and even though I've won every one, the costs awards rarely cover your own time and expenses, and certainly not those of a solicitor.

You (and we, if you want help) need to understand what their obligations and your obligations are, before you go any further. Specifically, ensure you DO own the website.

As others have said, you can rip (copy) the website, but do ensure you do own it first! This will only give the html, but should give any web designer a head start. You won't want to reuse the code as it produces a very bloated html full of redundant tags.

If you do own it, then ask for the specifications of what is required to host it. Then come back here - I'm sure there will be plenty of help finding an alternate host

 

[fisicx]

Apparently you don't own the site.

It is registed to someone called Claire who also lives in Enfield but not at the same address as you.

And apparently your server is in France for some reason: http://whois.domaintools.com/littlepinkies.co.uk

 

[Annoying Donkey]

And this from their terms and conditions:

# All scripts, codes, admin panels provided to clients by Arearade is the property of Areatrade are not to be reused or copied by anyone unless permission is granted by Areatrade. # All design work provided to the client by Areatrade is the property of Areatrade until all accounts are settled, once accounts are settled they become the intellectual property of the client.

so you own the design, but the scripts remain the property of areatrade.

and

# All website hosting packages are contracted for a minimum of 1 - 3 years depending on the package, after which you may elect to discontinue this by providing written notice to Areatrade 90 working days before the end of that 12 calender month. If no written notice is received within this time you will be bound by a further 12 month contract. # If you wish to cancel your hosting before your expiry date it must be submitted in writing. You will remain liable for any outstanding hosting amounts stated in your contract.

If you terminate your hosting, you remain liable for the balance of the term you chose.

Some good news:

1. They do not appear to be a limited company.

2. They are listed in the Google local business centre - make a review stating the facts and your level of dissatisfaction. (be careful what you say)

 

[fiona davies]

Hi can I just clarify... I paid about £1,500 for my site and it's been paid for in full, about a year ago. The site is registered in my (then) business partners name and address but we own it. I paid £1,700 for SEO in May and a further £320 for maintance. I cancelled the standing order for Septmeber.

I understand there are issues with the site and I am in a really difficult position as Xmas is my busiest time but I need to get to the bottom of their SEO practices.

In their defance (I did not come onto this forum to name and shame them, I just need some advice) I have spoken to them and they say they are taking my compalint seriousley. They told me they do not do the SEO work themselves but subcontract it (THey did not say this in the contract) and have assured me that all links placed on these sites are not doorway/landing pages but genuine websites (you only ahve to go to a ilnk to see they are not) and have assured me that what they have done does not go against Google guidlines, and are genuine SEO practices.

They say they will get back to me tomorrow when they have done their 'full report' into my links.
am going to give them the benfit of the doubt until tomorrow when they return with their report (but I have a funny feeling I know what they will say).

Many thanks to all those of you who have offered advice and commented. You have n o idea how much I appreciate it.

If they come back tomorrow with an appology and refund I'll be the first to post here and sing their praises.


Thanks agin for all the help,

Fiona

 

[Ali-v-8]

Following google guide lines??
Have google wrote a new book.

I can see your issue, but like you said "you paid them to do it".
If they outsourced the work that's their problem.
You contracted them to do the work and it is their responsibility.
My answer to them is "what are you going to do to fix it".
Give them a chance to repair the situation.
Why pay again.

 

[TheSlackers]

Just to chip in quickly

In their defance (I did not come onto this forum to name and shame them, I just need some advice) I have spoken to them and they say they are taking my compalint seriousley. They told me they do not do the SEO work themselves but subcontract it (THey did not say this in the contract)

Well there's a shock, to india I guess?

and have assured me that all links placed on these sites are not doorway/landing pages but genuine websites (you only ahve to go to a ilnk to see they are not)

How can they be sure if they didn't carry the work out themselves?

and have assured me that what they have done does not go against Google guidlines, and are genuine SEO practices.

"Avoid "doorway" pages created just for search engines, or other "cookie cutter" approaches such as affiliate programs with little or no original content." Webmaster guidelines

Also as I'm sure you're aware there are both good and bad "SEO practices"

 

[OldWelshGuy]

Some people can get a little anal about the quality of links though. Just a thought that flew through my tiny mind........ Some links can appear worthless, until you lookat the links pointing TO that link... Also many people will haide a small number of high quality links, with poor quality links (not bad links, just not up to much links).

I am not saying this is the case here, just passing comment.

 

[fiona davies]

thank you for that. And if that is the case then I will post on this forum and let you know.

 

[Annoying Donkey]

I paid about £1,500 for my site and it's been paid for in full, about a year ago. The site is registered in my (then) business partners name and address but we own it.

I am sorry to tell you this, but unless you have something in writing to the contrary, their terms state quite clearly that you own the design, but they retain ownership of the scripts.

The scripts run the website. Without them you cannot add products and cannot take orders... Basically unless you can persuade them to release the scripts, your website is useless as an ecommerce site. You are tied to them until you can get someone to write a back end (scripts) that you own.

Further down in their terms they state explicitly:

CLIENTS INFORMATION & CANCELLATION RIGHTS 1. If the client wishes to leave Areatrade all design files of the website and print stationery including any logo’s images and database information will be supplied on a CD. A static version of the website will be created for the client as the admin facility remains the property of Areatrade. A quote will be supplied for the collating of files from our back up and the transferring of the website to a static state.

I paid £1,700 for SEO in May and a further £320 for maintance. I cancelled the standing order for Septmeber.

Again, check what you have contracted for. I can't see anything in their terms regarding minimum SEO period, but they do have a minimum PPC of 6 months.

have assured me that what they have done does not go against Google guidlines, and are genuine SEO practices.

Save that email

 

Come to this a bit late but my 2 pence.

Very few links but not of bad quality.

Titles are your main problem as it does not look like they have been touched.

Earl

 

[QVA - Emma]

Come to this a bit late but my 2 pence.

Very few links but not of bad quality.

Titles are your main problem as it does not look like they have been touched.

Earl

Really?

You may find the OP did the majority of the quality links herself

Sorry, but are you saying a link on a page mixed in with lots of other links on a page which aren't relevant on a site that returns a 404 if you try to go to any other page and has a PR4 (breath) is still a quality link?:|

I'd personally call it quality spam just my tuppence

Emma

 

[fiona davies]

hello Again,
just heard back from A*******e and they have done two 'reports' and are awaiting a third . I asked them which SEO company did the reports and they said the SEO company that did the links (!!!!!!!). They have concluded that the sites are not doorway pages or spam sites and that they are happy for me to come in for a chat as they want prove all the traffic I have received, go through how well my site is doing etc etc (my traffic has gone DOWN...but anyway)


I think I have to accept that I am not going to get my money back from these people but I am convinced that for the money I paid they have not delivered on service, the links are worthless and it has had no impact on my traffic AT ALL so I will go to trading standards and report them. Trading Standards may say I don't have a case but I am so annoyed by this I want them to investigate.


A massive thanks to all those who offered advice




will let you know the outcome,

Fiona
sorry for ranting

 

[justinmarch]

hello Again,
just heard back from A*******e and they have done two 'reports' and are awaiting a third . I asked them which SEO company did the reports and they said the SEO company that did the links (!!!!!!!). They have concluded that the sites are not doorway pages or spam sites and that they are happy for me to come in for a chat as they want prove all the traffic I have received, go through how well my site is doing etc etc (my traffic has gone DOWN...but anyway)

I think I have to accept that I am not going to get my money back from these people but I am convinced that for the money I paid they have not delivered on service, the links are worthless and it has had no impact on my traffic AT ALL so I will go to trading standards and report them. Trading Standards may say I don't have a case but I am so annoyed by this I want them to investigate.

I wouldn't threaten them with trading standards or anyone else at this stage. Stay clam and focused, work out what it is you want from them before the meeting and work towards this goal.

The fact that they want to talk is a good sign IMHO.

 

[fiona davies]

ok,
I'll stay calm, listen to them, and see what happens........

thanks

fiona

 

[eventdomain]

Perhaps this:

The Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982

The Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982, which applies to England, Wales and Northern Ireland, says that a person providing a service must do so with 'reasonable care and skill'. It also requires the service to be carried out within a 'reasonable time' and for no more than a 'reasonable charge' unless there was prior agreement with the customer about these matters.

or something like it......

 

Really?

You may find the OP did the majority of the quality links herself

Sorry, but are you saying a link on a page mixed in with lots of other links on a page which aren't relevant on a site that returns a 404 if you try to go to any other page and has a PR4 (breath) is still a quality link?:|

I'd personally call it quality spam just my tuppence

Emma

Good quality spam is better than crap spam.

You would be surprised how much you can mug a dumb cluck like google with a nice bit of spam.

Earl

 

[Annoying Donkey]

...unless there was prior agreement with the customer about these matters.

Read their terms and conditions...

 

[david64]

pages where they had linked my site to were landing pages or dorway pages...they looked like link farms and spam sites to me.

The sites that are linking to you aren't doorway pages. They are splogs and crap ones at that.

Despite what some may say, links from splogs & co. will absolutely help you in the rankings. Particularly the ones you have links on, as they have PageRank. Many people think that just because it is blatantly obvious to our human eyes that something has only been done for links that Google knows it too.

Take away that browser rendered-interface and replace it with HTML; then remove that brain of your and replace it with information architecture that was designed to read the 1,000,000,000,000+ pages Google has in its index for speed not intelligence and you are left not being able to tell the difference between a splog and the finest English literature.

The splogs will help you rank in Google. However, there are a few problems with what your SEO has done:

1 - It's not within the Google guidelines, which means its something they would prefer you not to do. Your SEO company has created (or probably more accurately bought) some pages on the internet that essentially only exist for search engines to index them. You won't get penalised for this. You're just taking a leaf out of the insurance companies' SEO book.

2 - The main problem for you is that Google de-index splogs if their web spam folks find them, which means the links on them don't help you rank and I'm assumign your SEO company didn't mention this. If you are buying links on blatant splogs, expect 50% to be de-indexed in Google within one year.

3 - The 3rd problem is, "Did your SEO company tell you that they you the above?" If so, fine and you can have no complaints. If they didn't even give you the slightest hint or if worse, they were casting themselves as bastions of white hat SEO they should be considered Z-rate scuzz buckets.

As mentioned in your previous thread. Your SEO company has also contravened the Google guidelines on your site by adding the links:

"Website Design Services | Search Engine Optimisation Services"

at the bottom. This is done to manipulate search results and since it has been done en mass it comes under the umbrella of link schemes. You probably aren't too concerned about using other sites in a link scheme for your benefit, but do you want your site to just be some piece of slop to prop up some SEO company's rankings? - so they can rank and in turn get more clients over honest(er) SEOs and carry on the cycle of taking leaks all over client sites.

 

[QVA - Emma]

David,

So eloquently put

May I quote their site:

We follow the strict Google Guidelines and ensure your website pages are relevant to the keyword phrases we are targeting.

and

• 1. We give Permanent Link Guarantee. If your link is removed within 6 months of order completion, it will be replaced for FREE.
• 2. Our service includes making your link building campaign look absolutely natural for Google.
• 3. Some of our backlinks will come from high PR2 pages: up to PR4, sometimes even PR5!
• 4. We never spam forums. Ethical SEO Practices. SEO Principles.
• 5. We exclude all forums with 'no follow' tags & all not indexed forums. We guarantee that we post only on high quality 100% indexed forums.

May I say that's a lot of guarantees...

Emma

 

[shopnbag]

Fiona for 2k you should expect more ... however, having filtered through the replies I can say this ... take your displeasure to the company involved before you start naming & shaming ... if your tied into a contract then you have to see the contract till a finish before it is apt to publicly denounce them.

Other thing being you driving attention to your site, which might harm you in the meantime before you get something sorted out with the company that created these links for you.

My opinion is never raise a flag that might harm you ... TELL them you are unhappy with the inbounds ... if they are of decent nature that will soon be rectified ... if not, then you have rights to fight your corner.

 

[UKSBD]

Fiona for 2k you should expect more.

More than what?

Nobody here knows what they have or haven't done.
Just because there are only certain links showing doesn't mean they
haven't put the hours in.
The problem is here, very few people realise what is involved with
optimising, especialy link building.

I'll give you an example.
I spent about 3 hours this morning researching a new field and creating
a spreadsheet of about 20 sites that a recipricol linking campaign would
benefit them and the site I'm working on.

I then spent another hour composing about 5 or different emails more
personalised for these sites to try and get the links set up.
I then spent a bit of time researching the backlinks of these 20 sites
and the competitors of the site I'm working on.

So far this has resulted in 0 links achieved.

Now if I was doing that work for a client the bill would be £300+ and
what would they have in return, nothing.

Exactly why I don't optimise for other people, they just haven't got a
clue of the work involved.

 

[TheSlackers]

I'll give you an example.
I spent about 3 hours this morning researching a new field and creating
a spreadsheet of about 20 sites that a recipricol linking campaign would
benefit them and the site I'm working on.

I then spent another hour composing about 5 or different emails more
personalised for these sites to try and get the links set up.
I then spent a bit of time researching the backlinks of these 20 sites
and the competitors of the site I'm working on.

So far this has resulted in 0 links achieved.

I guess these sites are not splogs then!?

 

[UKSBD]

I guess these sites are not splogs then!?

No, but a few will be though, and then someone who hasn't got a clue
might querry the backlinks and say I haven't provided a good service
because the ones they find are on article sites blogs and sites that
have nothing to do with the site they are linking to.

 

[shopnbag]

More than what?

look for 2k the lady in question is due some decent links - that is what I was applying - you'd think there might even be a yahoo directory submission in that list for that price .. that's just for starters.

I totally agree with you, in regards to inbounds taking time to show ... look, im not getting at the company, my primary voice is 'give it time' if you read my thread ... and hell yeah, spammy links still contribute, perhaps not with any pr but with anchor text, yes they do.

 

[An Oasis]

Unbelievable.

People are commenting on a company and outing them as being rogues on
the basis of 2 weeks SEO work and a few so called dodgy links.

You should all be ashamed of yourselves

I am just a cowboy lonesome on the trail
A starry night, a campfire light
The coyote call, the howling winds wail
So I ride out to the old sundown

I am just a cowboy lonesome on the trail
Lord, Im just thinking about a certain female
The nights we spent together riding on the range
Looking back it seems so strange

Roll me over and turn me around
Let me keep spinning till I hit the ground
Roll me over and let me go
Running free with the buffalo

I was took in texas I did not know her name
Lord, all these southern girls seem the same
Down below the border in a town in mexico
I got my job busting broncs for the rodeo

Roll me over and turn me around
Let me keep spinning till I hit the ground
Roll me over and let me go
Riding in the rodeo

Roll me over and set me free
The cowboys life is the life for me

Sounds like the comments have got the right song to me...

 

[fiona davies]

I am just a cowboy lonesome on the trail
A starry night, a campfire light
The coyote call, the howling winds wail
So I ride out to the old sundown

I am just a cowboy lonesome on the trail
Lord, Im just thinking about a certain female
The nights we spent together riding on the range
Looking back it seems so strange

Roll me over and turn me around
Let me keep spinning till I hit the ground
Roll me over and let me go
Running free with the buffalo

I was took in texas I did not know her name
Lord, all these southern girls seem the same
Down below the border in a town in mexico
I got my job busting broncs for the rodeo

Roll me over and turn me around
Let me keep spinning till I hit the ground
Roll me over and let me go
Riding in the rodeo

Roll me over and set me free
The cowboys life is the life for me

think you're up too late!!!

 

[Ali-v-8]

Is this the real life?
Is this just fantasy?
Caught in a landslide,
No escape from reality
Open your eyes, Look up to the skies and see,
I'm just a poor boy, I need no sympathy,
Because I'm easy come, easy go, Little high, little low,
Any way the wind blows doesn't really matter to me, to me
Mama I just killed a man,
Put a gun against his head, pulled my trigger, now he's dead
Mama, life had just begun,
But now I've gone and thrown it all away
Mama, ooh, Didn't mean to make you cry,
If I'm not back again this time tomorrow,
Carry on, carry on as if nothing really matters
Too late, my time has come,
Sends shivers down my spine, body's aching all the time
Goodbye, ev'rybody, I've got to go,
Gotta leave you all behind and face the truth
Mama, ooh, I don't want to die,
I sometimes wish I'd never been born at all
I see a little silhouetto of a man,
Scaramouche, Scaramouche, will you do the Fandango
Thunderbolt and lightning, very, very fright'ning me
(Galileo) Galileo (Galileo) Galileo, Galileo figaro
Magnifico I'm just a poor boy and nobody loves me
He's just a poor boy from a poor family,
Spare him his life from this monstrosity
Easy come, easy go, will you let me go
Bismillah! No, we will not let you go
(Let him go!) Bismillah! We will not let you go
(Let him go!) Bismillah! We will not let you go
(Let me go) Will not let you go
(Let me go) Will not let you go (Let me go) Ah
No, no, no, no, no, no, no
(Oh mama mia, mama mia) Mama mia, let me go
Beelzebub has a devil put aside for me, for me, for me
So you think you can stone me and spit in my eye
So you think you can love me and leave me to die
Oh, baby, can't do this to me, baby,
Just gotta get out, just gotta get right outta here
Nothing really matters, Anyone can see,
Nothing really matters,
Nothing really matters to me
Any way the wind blows

Totally off original post, But so right lol

 

[Dan Lingo24]

It's not a good idea to jump for any SEO offer. You may end up spending a lot of money and not get any results.

 

[VinceSamios]

I suppose you could have FOUND us FIRST instead of getting COLD OUTSIDE but looking at your link profile it's pretty rubbish and not worth more then tuppence.

These are two example of the dross they have used: http://xtremefilms.net/ or http://www.mundawar.com/

Not quite link farms but pretty close.

And ask them to explain how this is going to help: http://virtualflowers.wordpress.com/

Mystro, it's irrelevant becauise the metatags are not used for ranking

Arghhh - sorry fisicx but... wrong wrong wrong...

Its Area Trade that did the website and SEO. I'm saying it again, its immoral to link to yourself from your clients homepage!

Both the examples of backlinking sites you gave have good PR - that are far far far superior to ICO backlinks.

http://virtualflowers.wordpress.com/ WILL help for SEO - its just not a fantastic link.

Meta Tags ARE used for SEO - Google SAYS they don't refer to meta keywords, and for the most part this is correct, however Meta Description still DOES have an effect on SEO.

I'd like to know the quantity of backlinks that was build, but I would initially say £2000 for this SEO work is NOT unreasonable... they are, for the most part, good back links! be patient!

People are too quick to jump on the witch hunt! And SEO Clients are too quick to jump up and down and say "ITS NOT WORKING" - Time is the single biggest SEO factor!

 

[VinceSamios]

The above title tag is nowhere near descriptive enough, it doesn't do anything for the site.




Why are your keywords under the Description tag?
What is the site description doing under the Keywords tag?

They put these under the wrong titles tags

You can't make your title tag too long, or your meta description too long, or it counts against you. Ignore this advice.

But yes - they've obviously got some noob whos got the details backwards... oops.

 

[VinceSamios]

I think about the same. The work they have done has not improved my position.In fact, according to my stats, the amount of visitors to my site has GONE DOWN since they started their SEO work.

You need patience to see any ranking changes...

And you can't use traffic figures to guage performance of work done due to seasonality and trends.

 

[VinceSamios]

guaranteeing 1st page in google

You got 1st page in google - in the natural listings... why are you complaining?

 

[VinceSamios]

A: They think that the keyword meta is a ranking factor which is incorrect.

So says Google - my testing shows otherwise (only tiny effects tho)

Also - you need to look after yahoo/bing etc, regardless of google...


I'm on a real war path here... yehaaaaw

 

[VinceSamios]

Unbelievable.

People are commenting on a company and outing them as being rogues on
the basis of 2 weeks SEO work and a few so called dodgy links.

You should all be ashamed of yourselves

AMEN! phew - it took 4 pages for this thread to get any sense...

 

So says Google - my testing shows otherwise (only tiny effects tho)

Also - you need to look after yahoo/bing etc, regardless of google...


I'm on a real war path here... yehaaaaw

got to agree with Vinnie on that one.

But

Title length will not work against you if you keep everything relevant. See Shawn at Hobo's evidence on title length.

Earl

 

[VinceSamios]

internal links done in excess.

Gah - get with the times! Internal linking is a mega power seo tool in 2009.