SEO is easy! So just do it..

[Court Jester]

Just read one of the best forum posts ever:

So much nonsense in this thread as usual with any SEO threads. I wasted loads of money at the start and then learned the basics myself,

I'm a great believer in acquiring knowledge, but admit am too lazy to do the work as Im getting older in my life, but not over the hill yet. Having owned/promoted about 8 websites and with some getting upto 500k in visitors, I Believe am qualified to talk about SEO basics so here we go! (but first a bit about my background, so you know I'm not full of it).

Began in 2003, with a very dodgy looking directory for my copywriting clients, as well as my own/former website to flog my copywriting services. Then an SEO service which died big time, then a forum that got 12000 members, and now looking at a 9th idea..

Probably my 4th site gets about 100k visitors a year and has 24k in inbounds, my 5th site gets about 300k of visitors and slightly less links to it, with both Alexa ranks vastly different, so don't pay much attention to that, as its traffic that counts, but more the quality of the traffic is vital to any website's success.

I spent money on useless self proclaimed experts, silly ebooks and from my forum learnt a lot about
charlatans and how they operate. I discovered one important fact - the world is full of advice, most of it wrong and steering you in the wrong direction, or telling you to use the wrong websites,.

But the subject that is most confusing and seems to attract the most bs, is SEO. Most questions are about 'finding' or hiring that know it all SEO consultant, but always managed to get traffic myself, so am convinced about DIY to a point, if you have the time to do it.

From setting up my very first site, one thing stood out, that in order to get sales, traffic is needed, but not any traffic as a car buyer won't be interested in dog collars (and I don't mean sexual bondage). Also seems that even god-like SEO's do an awful job, as I followed the SEO results of one SEO guy, who got a client a ton of directory links on loads of badly designed untargeted stats reporting sites etc.

So its DIY for me as I trust no one anymore and as I can't read minds or completely find out what the likely results will be until I hand over my cash - seems the SEO industry is built on - you wont know until you take the risk - but the risk is too great to shell out on someone's say so for most to find out if it works or not. You could burn a lot of cash, better spent elsewhere, so my advice is do something viral instead.

 

[justinaldridge]

Unfortunately our industry is unregulated and completely overwhelmed with people who label themselves as SEO's when they haven't even got a single site of their own that earns them money.

I obviously do all of my own SEO on my own sites but for many businesses it can be very time consuming and there's a lot to take in and do. You've been doing it since 2003 but someone starting today with no knowledge at all whilst also running a business...it's tough. Optimising a website, setting up Google Local, citation building, link building, competitor analysis, keyword research, writing new content, working social media accounts, etc. It's time and as SEO is a long process many businesses can't wait for months and months to work out what to do and to do it well.

I could fix my own car, I could install a new shower, etc, but I don't have time so I get professionals to do these things for me.

Plenty of people do SEO for themselves but there is also a need for professional companies to offer a professional service. I like to think that's where we fit in.

You've obviously had a bad experience but the entire industry is not made of con artists...just most of it is!

For those who want to do it themselves I always recommend Google's own SEO PDF Guide. It's a great starting point and every business owner should understand at least the fundamentals of SEO and online marketing.

 

[UKSBD]

I've been playing in SEO since 2001, but apart from helping a few people out there is no way I would do it for anyone else now.

The main reason being, people just don't have a clue, SEO's slag of what other SEO's have done to poach clients, but then do virtually the same.

People get told their previous SEO has set up bad links, charge to remove them, then go about building very similar links.

12 months later, another SEO contacts the person, says the same thing and the cycle starts again.

Biggest problem is people fall for it.

 

[Marek Skoczylas]

Well, that is why, I completly swap my business model. I leases my websites for local companies. Its like a ready business for still offline business owners or bestead on top 11-xxx. Instant satisfaction guaranteed for both sites.

If I have one in top 10, just make a call - ... hello, I can give you more customers within next five minutes, just give me your phone number an I will place it in contact area.

 

[VapeG]

That is a terrific idea Marek, thanks for sharing

 

[justinaldridge]

Marek, we don't follow your example but we have over 600 lead gen sites in certain niches and they drive a lot of leads to businesses.

But I think it's still important for businesses to have their own websites, it's an important long term investment and over time will be more and more important.

We did try and set up a similar system to yourself a while back but we found that businesses in general didn't want to depend on us for their traffic and business. They wanted to own it themselves, which makes complete sense. They wanted to own their websites, especially if most of their business came through search. They generally felt it to be too risky to have their business dependent on a website that we owned.

 

[SEOpie]

I do think that if a website owner can carry out on and off-site SEO themselves, it tends to work in their favour. Nobody knows your business as well as you do; and nobody has the in-depth knowledge of your industry that you have.

However:

I could fix my own car, I could install a new shower, etc, but I don't have time so I get professionals to do these things for me.

And the majority of business owners, especially start-ups, just don't have the time to learn.

Unfortunately, this phenomenon, coupled with a distinct lack of budget during certain phases, means that many businesses or individuals look for solutions in the wrong places.
Low budget SEO means either poor results, or a delayed problem resolution.

The best solution on a limited budget? A combined approach should work.

An SEO consultant to carry out the majority of code fixes, UX adaptations, formatting and so on, and to offer guidance as to visual content, and detailed guidance on link-building practices; the business owner to produce the content, outreach, and negotiate, with regards to external link-building.

Unfortunately, most business owners, while understand the benefits of this arrangement, just don't have the motivation to carry out these tasks.

Ultimately, it rarely ends with both parties feeling satisfied.

Despite what many think, if good results aren't achieved, we, as professional consultants, aren't satisfied. Money isn't everything.

 

[Marek Skoczylas]

Well I have completely opposite feelings. I didn't face any grumble or uncertainty from my customers at all.

For those who have bad experience with "SEO" it's like a magic wand, that gets alive to their cell phones and bring money to their business.

No delay, no waiting for effects, and as usual - pay to play.

 

[S Isaac]

I wouldn't mind 'renting' a site to get more work, but as Justin says, I'd rather own it.

There is too much of a risk that the site owner would up their costs, rent to your competitor, go bust etc.

It may be good as a short term thing to get work in, earn some money and then pay to get your own site up & running properly.

 

[boring-friday]

Think thats my quote lol and it is easy, people over complicate things with listening to '200 ranking signals', get a decent wordpress site from a premium theme with decent on site seo and a lot of strong links and you can worry about the other 195+ points later.
If you're worried about getting penalized, 95% of google penalties are either building links too fast or with too many exact match anchor texts/over optimized onpage keywords

 

[Marek Skoczylas]

If you're worried about getting penalized, 95% of google penalties are either building links too fast or with too many exact match anchor texts/over optimized onpage keywords

I will say 99%

 

[Court Jester]

Nobody knows your business as well as you do; and nobody has the in-depth knowledge of your industry that you have.

Exactly, therefore hiring of SEO consultants is 'do you have time to do it'.

For one, SEO isn't difficult - for this you need:

Onsite SEO

1. a website CMS (content management system) - you simply do the following:

keyword | keyword | keyword | etc - then match the words with a non-spammy description, including your main keywords - job done.

Place the description onto your homepage.

2. I don't believe in paying for all this keyword research, as the site owner will be an industry expert already and no SEO can match this. There's tons of info on this just on this forum alone and others (SEO/tech forums etc) you just need to read.. So what if you make a mistake - it costs nothing but time and some effort, at least you won't lose money, at some point you'll find exactly what keywords work and you can rank for. It takes a few minutes to add/remove a keyword.


Offsite SEO

Ok, this is easier than onsite stuff, but takes considerable time, effort and some cash to do properly. What's great about this is:

1. Its your own, original content.
2. You can add as much as you want
3. A CMS is a one-off fee in most cases to design what sections you need - forever.

in most cases you can add content, I mean most can get hold of a blog, they cost about £200-300 max, ensure it can upload images, video and links. A personal industry forum is best, the members post the content, or you could place guides to a blog etc. I did this for 2 years and got a ton of nice content, so you can keep it going once you reach better traffic levels or bin it.

So you can have a stand alone site that does the content, or bolt on, a mini site - or bespoke a entire micro/niche site to work the content and drive traffic. This is the only way to keep costs down and is the easiest way, or face huge constant SEO bills for life.


Content writing

For this, you need a bit of skill and lots of time. If no time, then employ a freelancer - problem is most freelancers will only supply on their client's needs eg: I had guys approach me with offer of articles, and to also pay me to publish! But they only supply with 1 or 2 articles at maybe £20 a time, so content wise, its not what I'd be satisfied with and is the problem. But if you can find enough freelancers guys, then articles are a good way for a blog type site. So self publishing is the way here ofcourse when your big, others will supply you.

 

[justinaldridge]

it costs nothing but time and some effort

Time = Money

 

[domainguy]

The problem people have with paying for seo is they don't understand what you are doing for the money and the effort being put in,and they just expect to suddenly appear on page 1 of google. You need to charge them per hour per week and detail what you have done. They also need to understand no matter what they pay you they aren't getting their loan site anywhere near page 1.

 

[greyheart]

It's horses for courses really. I mean our bread and butter comes from huge brands spending huge amounts across multiple countries in highly competitive sectors.

There's a certain time when it would be a lot riskier to employ in house to do that sort of thing as it's not like one man is enough to do it.

But, when you're at that point it's a completely different question. It's risk. An agency you can always cut ties with pretty easily staff can be a bit harder. Plus generally speaking agency side tends to have more on the pulse staff, small in house teams stagnate quickly. Not their fault, just something that tends to happen.

Then again if we're talking smaller operations as a business owner I know I can't do everything. Some things you have to let go of. And the worst thing we see is a lot of people for whom "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing".

If you don't have time to keep up to date properly, outsource, just make sure it's to a company who A) values you and B) educates you. If all you get is a monthly report and no email/phone communication then odds are you're not getting any attention.

It's a much longer discussion than just this post and it really is horses for courses.

 

[S Isaac]

So what if you make a mistake - it costs nothing but time and some effort, at least you won't lose money, at some point you'll find exactly what keywords work and you can rank for. It takes a few minutes to add/remove a keyword.

In principal a lot of what you say is correct. However, there is a huge potential for 'opportunity loss'.

So, let's say you save £1k in the first 5 months of DIY SEO, had a competent & professional SEO consultant done the work, you may well have won £10k of work and made £2k of profit, or £1k after you take into account £1k of SEO work you paid for.

It all depends on your industry and average order size I suppose.

BTW, I am doing my own SEO (and took tin soldiers course to do so), but will ultimately pay someone to improve on what I've done and ideally keep me ahead of the competition, or at least keep up with them instead of falling off and out of view to my target audience.

 

[Court Jester]

Time = Money

But its that cost, what cost is the time in a decent article - not much maybe 30 mins? and who knows what doors it opens. I've spent good money on useless SEO, that didn't even triple my spend on the SEO I paid out on, while my basic website brings in £££.

 

[Court Jester]

and detail what you have done. They also need to understand no matter what they pay you they aren't getting their loan site anywhere near page 1.

I think most business owners know a page 1 rank is very tough to get. The issue of SEO agents is the comms between client and agent, its usually very poor at best or non-existent at most.

The client must be kept informed of where their links are placed, until this happens, the client may as well toss the cash into the river. Before contracts are signed, the client needs a decent plan drawn up by the SEO, so client can see if its worth paying for - but I don't expect this happens much - and I mean a decent plan here, not some eg: "well get you on 300 sites for £400, and you pay us for the effort and not the results"

The week or moment the plan isn't being stuck to or the mass/quality links aren't forthcoming - the client should walk away and call breach of contract. The plan needs to detail the precise sites your links will be on, and if those sites want payment, thus a separate contract now exists.

There needs to be a governing body like the Federation of Master Builders has, SEO members must abide to strict codes of practise or face punishment. The body needs a tie in to Trading Standards to keep things in line.

 

[S Isaac]

.
There needs to be a governing body like the Federation of Master Builders has, SEO members must abide to strict codes of practise or face punishment. The body needs a tie in to Trading Standards to keep things in line.

It will never happen. And many will tell you that the FMB is nothing more than paying to use the logo, even members of it !!!!!!

 

[FutureM]

It will never happen. And many will tell you that the FMB is nothing more than paying to use the logo, even members of it !!!!!!

Is SEO even an industry? I would say it is a specialty within the industry.

 

[Ian J]

Time = Money

Not necessarily.

I have plenty of time on my hands as in all honesty I don't do more than an hour or two of productive work as a broker every day so I have the time to spare but not necessarily the expertise any more

 

[justinaldridge]

Wish I had more time on my hands Ian!

If you have plenty of time you can make more money. I paid someone to take my car for its MOT today. It's cheaper to do that than to go myself as during that time I can make much more money than the cost of getting someone to take the car for me.

Time always equals money. The more I work the more money I make. The more websites I build the more money I make. The more time I spend marketing my websites the more money I make.

Problem is...I need more time!

 

[Ian J]

I paid someone to take my car for its MOT today. It's cheaper to do that than to go myself as during that time I can make much more money than the cost of getting someone to take the car for me.

Buy a new car and then you won't have to worry about MOTs

 

[justinaldridge]

Buy a new car and then you won't have to worry about MOTs

It's an appreciating Ferrari so I'm probably going to be keeping it for a while.

 

[ZeroDouble]

SEO IS simple, but I wouldn't say it's 'easy', unless of course you've been doing it for years, in which case you could probably say the same about anything. If I just think back to when I first started in SEO, I'd say that it was anything but easy, but that's mostly because of all the BS that you need to wade through before you have that first 'ah ha' moment.

 

[justinaldridge]

@ZeroDouble very true!

 

[StevePoster]

In my experience SEO takes time, challenges, evolution, then established but still competing.

 

[Karimbo]

I've done affiliate marketing for a while and managed to get websites to rank in the past. However I have found SEO to be extremely difficult. There are sites on page 1 of google and the ranking looks purely random. There is one site that has 8-9 domains doing 301s to the main domain, when I inspect the backlink profile of these domains I get nothing. Which leads me to question how this website is ranking at all. Seems like it has no backlinks. just an exact match domain.

I have thrown a lot of money on outreach, the "white hat like" links from articles, purchased dropped domains of high authority sites for a lot of money and nothing has worked. At least if I spent £1000 on adwords I'd have something to show for myself.

 

[boring-friday]

I've done affiliate marketing for a while and managed to get websites to rank in the past. However I have found SEO to be extremely difficult. There are sites on page 1 of google and the ranking looks purely random. There is one site that has 8-9 domains doing 301s to the main domain, when I inspect the backlink profile of these domains I get nothing. Which leads me to question how this website is ranking at all. Seems like it has no backlinks. just an exact match domain.

Its called the 'switchbox' method. If its a hard search term he'll have a lot of powerful links sent to the 301s (sape,pbns), they pass the 'link juice' to the domain that you see ranking, if/when that domain gets penalized he'll get a new domain and redirect the 8-9 domains to the new domain (redirecting domains won't get penalized)

and/or he'll have a pbn with link crawlers blocked, you can try searching his url in google or his brand name and see what sites show up but if hes good you probably won't find it

 

[justinaldridge]

(redirecting domains won't get penalized

That's not true. If you redirect a domain with a spam link profile to another domain then any penalty affecting that website will pass through the 301 redirect. It's an old technique which doesn't work so well these days.

 

[boring-friday]

That's not true. If you redirect a domain with a spam link profile to another domain then any penalty affecting that website will pass through the 301 redirect. It's an old technique which doesn't work so well these days.

Oh right if you say so, I've done it atleast 5 times in the last 6 months and it hasn't passed the penalty.
edit: the redirects have no penalty, the domain ranking in google gets the penalty

 

[sirearl]

Time always equals money..

Rubbish.

Time = time to live which for a great many does not include work.

 

[justinaldridge]

Oh right if you say so, I've done it atleast 5 times in the last 6 months and it hasn't passed the penalty.
edit: the redirects have no penalty, the domain ranking in google gets the penalty

It's only a matter of time....if you redirect a penalised domain to another it will pass the penalty across. It's an old technique and there are much better and long term ways of achieving the same result today. There is no need to take that risk.

 

[boring-friday]

It's only a matter of time....if you redirect a penalised domain to another it will pass the penalty across. It's an old technique and there are much better and long term ways of achieving the same result today. There is no need to take that risk.

The domain is not penalized, read above.

I can pay a virtual assistant 600$ per month (overpaying them for good work), it would take them less than 50 hours to set everything up (150$), 500$ or so for the links and then I make 2000+$ per month, why would I not do both, I'm not limited to 1 website/method.

Can you rank hard keywords long term for a 650$ one off cost? Please pm a invoice to pay if so

 

[Marek Skoczylas]

Playing with 301 can be very profitable, while you fully understand new Google rules for 301 after 2014. Making some random 301 most cases will failure rather than help. At best, you will not notice the changes.

 

[justinaldridge]

@boring-friday So you are essentially just a spammer. Lovely.

 

[boring-friday]

@boring-friday So you are essentially just a spammer. Lovely.

Pretty much although my biggest website is e commerce and I'm competitively priced on the same items as others so not sure what the issue is, 90% of my competitors are either spammers and/or tax dodgers who just rank with a good ctr from their 'zero rated vat' products so no issue for me
<personal attack>

 

[devidweb]

Hello

I think so SEO activity is easy to work.but every activity understood and then apply for your work.

 

[Craig hogg]

@boring-friday So you are essentially just a spammer. Lovely.

Impressive portfolio & lifestyle going by what I can find easily online about yourself.

You should write a book on becoming an SEO and your ups and downs. It would much appreciated to people like myself, no longer happy in their career and willing to put in the work to change their path. Originally looked at starting off with Affiliate marketing but it looks like a big pond that's already saturated.

 

[justinaldridge]

Impressive portfolio & lifestyle going by what I can find easily online about yourself.

You should write a book on becoming an SEO and your ups and downs. It would much appreciated to people like myself, no longer happy in their career and willing to put in the work to change their path. Originally looked at starting off with Affiliate marketing but it looks like a big pond that's already saturated.

Thanks mate. It's a lot of long hours and some luck to be honest! Affiliate marketing is far from saturated, it's about finding an angle into a particular market. My main affiliate incomes are in the travel industry, property and more recently with gifts.

There are a lot of resources out there already, admittedly quite a lot of bad ones too but nothing beats just trying it and perservering. I spent years earning nothing before finally hitting on a good idea. It can take time but it's far from saturated out there. There are always opportunities.

Best of luck!