Self-Employment Grant - another scam.

[paulears]

Got this today.

GOV.UK

HM Revenue & Customs


Dear customer,

We are writing to you as you’ve previously claimed a Self-Employment Income Support Scheme (SEISS) grant. Based on the latest information we hold, we do not think you will be eligible to claim the fourth SEISS grant, which covers the period of February 2021 to April 2021.

We realise the significant financial impact that this might have, which is why we have contacted you as soon as possible. We would also like to provide you with details of other support that you may be eligible for.

Why you may not eligible for the fourth grant
There are a number of reasons why you may not be eligible for the fourth SEISS grant, for example:

• you are not registered as self-employed with HMRC
• before coronavirus restrictions, your average profits were more than £50,000
• before coronavirus restrictions, you earned less from self-employment than income you got from elsewhere
• you did not submit your Self Assessment tax return for 2019 to 2020 on or before 2 March 2021.

You can easily find out the exact reason why you are not eligible by signing in to your Government Gateway account. To do this, search ‘Return to Self-Employment Income Support Scheme’ on GOV.UK.

If you believe we have made a mistake
If you think the reason shown in your account is incorrect, you can ask us to review your eligibility by selecting the ‘If you don’t agree’ option. Using the online service is the only way to begin the review process. You will need to tell us what you think is wrong and you may have to provide evidence.

Once you have found out the reason why you are no longer eligible, your tax advisor may be able to answer questions you may have.

Other Coronavirus support
You may still be eligible for other UK Government support, including Restart Grants, the Recovery Loan scheme, business rates relief and other business support schemes.

If you are eligible for Universal Credit, the temporary increase to the standard allowance has been extended for six months. If your earnings have fallen significantly, your award will have increased to reflect your lower earnings following temporary suspension of the Minimum Income Floor. Search ‘Universal Credit’ on GOV.UK to find out about eligibility.

For more details, search ‘coronavirus support’ on GOV.UK.

Protect yourself from scams
Stay vigilant about scams, which may mimic government messages as a way of appearing authentic. Search ‘Check a list of genuine HMRC contacts’ on GOV.UK for information on how to recognise genuine HMRC contact. You can forward suspicious emails claiming to be from HMRC to [email protected] and texts to 60599.

Access the National Cyber Security Centre’s guide on how to stay secure online and protect yourself and your business against cyber crime by searching ‘Cyber Aware’ on GOV.UK.

Yours sincerely

Jim Harra

Chief Executive and First Permanent Secretary – HMRC

 

[Ozzy]

Got this today.

I'm guessing this came through to you by email, was there a call to action in the email (a link to click) which took you to a website that was not the gov.uk website?

 

[UK Contractor Accountant]

cant see what the scam is?

Hasnt asked you to click on any links and enter bank details

 

[UK Contractor Accountant]

I have had 2 clients send me emails today from HMRC asking for repayment of the SEISS grant on grounds that they did not continue to trade in 20/21 tax year.

 

[paulears]

I think the advice above is sound - I've checked on the real site and I have indeed been rejected.
Why you may not eligible for the fourth grant
There are a number of reasons why you may not be eligible for the fourth SEISS grant, for example:

• you are not registered as self-employed with HMRC
• before coronavirus restrictions, your average profits were more than £50,000
• before coronavirus restrictions, you earned less from self-employment than income you got from elsewhere
• you did not submit your Self Assessment tax return for 2019 to 2020 on or before 2 March 2021.

I suspect it is the last one - my accountant was late submitting my return. What a bummer!

 

[UK Contractor Accountant]

review your eligibility by selecting the ‘If you don’t agree’ option

thats probably where the scam is - taking you to a bogus site?

the correct email address from HMRC should be as follows

[email protected]

 

[paulears]

Even worse - not the accountant, but the pension I get being the wrong percentage of my self employed income - so I'm not entitled as one of my pensions started paying out during the relevant months making the self-employment grant ineligible. Absolutely genuine email, not a scam - they really are not giving me anything!

 

[UKSBD]

review your eligibility by selecting the ‘If you don’t agree’ option

thats probably where the scam is - taking you to a bogus site?

the correct email address from HMRC should be as follows

[email protected]

I get a lot of emails that are supposedly from [email protected] but actually come from govdelivery.com

 

[Mr D]

Even worse - not the accountant, but the pension I get being the wrong percentage of my self employed income - so I'm not entitled as one of my pensions started paying out during the relevant months making the self-employment grant ineligible. Absolutely genuine email, not a scam - they really are not giving me anything!

They set criteria. And stick to them.
Leaving a lot of people outside the criteria and unable to get the money.

What sounds good in a committee meeting between various people regarding what conditions to set .... not always giving results wanted in practice.

Saying that, if no conditions had been put in place then the scheme would have been far more abused. No easy answers, damned if they do and damned if they don't.

 

[Philip Hoyle]

They set criteria. And stick to them.
Leaving a lot of people outside the criteria and unable to get the money.

What sounds good in a committee meeting between various people regarding what conditions to set .... not always giving results wanted in practice.

Saying that, if no conditions had been put in place then the scheme would have been far more abused. No easy answers, damned if they do and damned if they don't.

But why no comparable restrictions for furlough? Why can employees get furlough if they earn over £50k or over half their income is from other sources? It makes no sense why there are random restrictions for some people and not others. And why no provision for people whose "other income" stopped, i.e. someone who was previously employed but left employment to start self employment is excluded if the employed income for the tax year was more than S/e income, even though it's clear the employed income stopped! Why aren't those now eligible for the 4th grant given the first 3 too now that they've been proved to have been eligible/affected? None of it makes any sense.

 

[Mr D]

But why no comparable restrictions for furlough? Why can employees get furlough if they earn over £50k or over half their income is from other sources? It makes no sense why there are random restrictions for some people and not others. And why no provision for people whose "other income" stopped, i.e. someone who was previously employed but left employment to start self employment is excluded if the employed income for the tax year was more than S/e income, even though it's clear the employed income stopped! Why aren't those now eligible for the 4th grant given the first 3 too now that they've been proved to have been eligible/affected? None of it makes any sense.

Because it was decided that way.

Perhaps even by a different committee.

We can figure out the variables, the exceptions, the problems. Someone unfamiliar with self employment may not have a clue and don't know what they don't know so unable to ask the questions they need answering.

 

[Newchodge]

before coronavirus restrictions, you earned less from self-employment than income you got from elsewhere

Are you sure the pension kicked in before coronavirus restrictions?

 

[paulears]

Apparently the dates seem to match - so I'm stuffed.

 

[japancool]

Well, I just got a letter today saying I might be eligible!

Though I haven't suffered a drop in profits so boo to that, no free taxpaer-funded money for me.

 

[OldWelshGuy]

I have not had a farthing from the government, but I just KNOW they are going to tax my arse down the road

 

[japancool]

I have not had a farthing from the government, but I just KNOW they are going to tax my arse down the road

But is your arse a higher rate taxpayer?

 

[Mr D]

I have not had a farthing from the government, but I just KNOW they are going to tax my arse down the road

Don't give them ideas!

 

[thetiger2015]

They set criteria. And stick to them.
Leaving a lot of people outside the criteria and unable to get the money.

What sounds good in a committee meeting between various people regarding what conditions to set .... not always giving results wanted in practice.

Saying that, if no conditions had been put in place then the scheme would have been far more abused. No easy answers, damned if they do and damned if they don't.

It's also because they can go on TV/Radio and say '...there's plenty of support for business owners and self employed, such as as the SEISS as one example'. Any questioning around that is brushed off, because they've already answered the question and everyone believes you just fill out a form online and boom, money in your bank account.

Very few people in the general population realise that a lot of business owners have not been able to claim anything during the last year and a bit. Anyone I've spoken to, assumed I'd got £50k deposited in to my account a few months ago....I got nada...zero...zilch. I have claimed precisely nothing from the tax payer but I'm going to be battered next year, completely taxed to death...I can just tell!

They know how much your business turns over and they can look at the overall trading information submitted via VAT returns or annual returns but instead, they've chosen a method that excludes hundreds of thousands of people with genuine cashflow issues, both personally and through reduction in business turnover.

Also, I've found a lot of dead ends. There are things you go through on the gov.uk website, where it seems like you can claim something but, after filling everything out, you get rejected a few days later, just like the OP.

 

[BustersDogs]

I am one of the Excluded, I am used to it. I go nothing but debt from the Government and was entitled to one shitty business advice call that was pretty useless, except they said I'd get the 4th grant. After a year I am used to hearing promises that dangle out of reach, as this one also will be denied me, I am sure. Yet they'll want me and any employees to pay tax of course, when we are back on our feet, to help pay back all the people who've had hand outs for sitting on their arse learning new hobbies.

 

[Mr D]

It's also because they can go on TV/Radio and say '...there's plenty of support for business owners and self employed, such as as the SEISS as one example'. Any questioning around that is brushed off, because they've already answered the question and everyone believes you just fill out a form online and boom, money in your bank account.

Very few people in the general population realise that a lot of business owners have not been able to claim anything during the last year and a bit. Anyone I've spoken to, assumed I'd got £50k deposited in to my account a few months ago....I got nada...zero...zilch. I have claimed precisely nothing from the tax payer but I'm going to be battered next year, completely taxed to death...I can just tell!

They know how much your business turns over and they can look at the overall trading information submitted via VAT returns or annual returns but instead, they've chosen a method that excludes hundreds of thousands of people with genuine cashflow issues, both personally and through reduction in business turnover.

Also, I've found a lot of dead ends. There are things you go through on the gov.uk website, where it seems like you can claim something but, after filling everything out, you get rejected a few days later, just like the OP.

Yes, they claim a lot but reality is not as they see it.

I didn't get anything from the self employment grants - I'd just switched off from self employment in that business.
A chunk of limited company business was stalled by the virus - luckily there was some stock still able to be sold.
And bounce back loan helped.

 

[Rekkovitch]

To apply, you’ll need to reasonably believe there is a significant reduction in your trading profits due to coronavirus between February 2021 and April 2021, and that you intend to continue to trade.

If you claim, you must also keep appropriate records as evidence of the impact on your business.

This statement is both clear and unclear. I mean, how can they decide whether you have or have not lost out as comparing to the previous year isn't necessary going to show that especially if your business is growing one year and slower another year.
If I got a call I would he confident to be able to show losses as a significant amount of my revenue comes from people going on holiday and , as no one has been able to go on holiday they haven't used me. But other areas of the business have done well ( which would have done well regardless )

On paper it looks about even Stevens with last year where it should have been much higher

 

[Rekkovitch]

I am one of the Excluded, I am used to it. I go nothing but debt from the Government and was entitled to one shitty business advice call that was pretty useless, except they said I'd get the 4th grant. After a year I am used to hearing promises that dangle out of reach, as this one also will be denied me, I am sure. Yet they'll want me and any employees to pay tax of course, when we are back on our feet, to help pay back all the people who've had hand outs for sitting on their arse learning new hobbies.

Are you Ltd then ?

 

[gpietersz]

To apply, you’ll need to reasonably believe there is a significant reduction in your trading profits due to coronavirus between February 2021 and April 2021, and that you intend to continue to trade.

How much is significant? 10%, 50%?

Also, I believe, it has to come from a reduction is sales, not an increase in costs.

 

[Rekkovitch]

How much is significant? 10%, 50%?

Also, I believe, it has to come from a reduction is sales, not an increase in costs.

Exactly, how much is significant? To me 1% is significant, a loss is a loss , its certainly not growth.

Don't get me wrong I'm not complaining as I am very greatful for the grant, but my point is there's really no way of someone else deciding what your interpretation of significant is.

 

[Dirtyhandsman]

Can anyone tell me whether i can put the latest SEISS grant covering February/march/April 2021 through my accounts so it appears in the months that I was actually claiming the grant for. In other words I had no work coming in in Feb/March 2021 so it would seem far more sensible to put the grant through those months rather than in the subsequent months when I will/have been earning again. It says on the gov website it must appear in the 2021-2022 self assessment tax return. Is that merely saying it has to be included in your accounts so you pay the tax on it, or, is it 100% important that it appears in the 2021-2022 accounts. I'd be much happier to put it through in the 2020-2021 self assessment tax return. Any help would be much appreciated.

 

[MBE2017]

Helped someone with this latest grant today and personally take my hat off to the HMRC for such a quick and easy claim system, they have made it fast and easy which is just as well considering the numbers involved.

We can all argue on qualification criteria, amounts etc, but personally although not a Conservative voter I doubt any other party would have been as generous overall. I really feel for those who have had no consideration when affected and it is disgraceful nothing has been done for the small numbers(percentage wise) of people involved.

With the infection rate down low, the claimed pandemic seemingly under control, I think this will be the last payment given out, the country needs to start realising things cannot continue like this forever.

 

[UK Contractor Accountant]

I think this will be the last payment given out

no fifth one to claim as well!

Then they will start to claim back from those who shouldnt have claimed in the first place.

Started all ready with those who claimed it but had ceased self employment shown on their 2019 tax return. Those are the easy ones to weed out, computer generated lists and mail outs.

 

[Newchodge]

We can all argue on qualification criteria, amounts etc, but personally although not a Conservative voter I doubt any other party would have been as generous overall.

Many European countries have been more generous, so there is no reason to think that any other party could not have done better.

 

[MBE2017]

no fifth one to claim as well!

Then they will start to claim back from those who shouldnt have claimed in the first place.

Started all ready with those who claimed it but had ceased self employment shown on their 2019 tax return. Those are the easy ones to weed out, computer generated lists and mail outs.

I don’t think anyone will object to them claiming back incorrect claims.