Royal Mail are "withdrawing Standard Parcels".

[Justin Smith]

I`m starting this thread because it`s not specifically about the recently announced RM price rise, it`s about sizing.and the fact that, effectively, RM are blatantly failing the universal service obligation

I`ve been on here before complaining about RM`s new found inflexibility over sizing (which is illogical and costs them money, but this Forum won`t let me link to that thread.....) but I`ve just had a letter from the RM which states they`re now "withdrawing the Standard Parcels service". In the same letter they`d earlier mentioned that you can now send a packet over 1Kg second class (which is more or less irrelevant because you could send it First class before anyway) so they justify this "improvement" as an excuse for getting rid of RM Standard Parcels. They go on to state the obvious (like it`s something we really want to hear) that we can use Parcelforce. Well thanks for that, but that`s of no use to me. We pay to get RM in every day to pick up our franked mail and they`d also collect Standard Parcels, but the Postie hasn`t got anything to do with Parcelforce, so we`d have to open an account with Parcelforce. But if you do that they then charge you the same kind of supplements for NW Scotland and N Ireland as TNT do (who we already deal with ! ). Thus you can no longer send a parcel (unless it`s less that 61cm long) anywhere in the country for the same price.

So, by definition, this is failing their universal service obligation by the back door !

 

[TheClearance]

Thanks for the heads up.

Currently, I'm looking into alternative providers such as UK mail etc. Cheaper alternatives might be available, but the concern will be reliability and delivery times.

 

[Justin Smith]

Thanks for the heads up.

Currently, I'm looking into alternative providers such as UK mail etc. Cheaper alternatives might be available, but the concern will be reliability and delivery times.

This thing about the RM withdrawing Standard Parcels is of immediate concern primarily to people living in (or sending to) Northern Ireland, NW Scotland and offshore (incl the Isle of Wight) if they want any item longer than 61cm. Now 61cm is about two feet, which really isn`t that big.
Of longer term concern is the erosion of the Universal Service Obligation, this, believe me, is the start of a very big wedge.......
There is no carrier, not even for Amazon (though most of Amazon`s stock isn`t even sent out by Amazon anyway), who won`t charge a hefty premium for the aforementioned locations.

 

[LED Lightworld]

Thanks for the heads up.

Currently, I'm looking into alternative providers such as UK mail etc. Cheaper alternatives might be available, but the concern will be reliability and delivery times.

Good luck dealing with UKMail!!

 

[Justin Smith]

Good luck dealing with UKMail!!

We used to deal with UK Mail / Business Post, and we weren`t impressed. They gave us a cheap deal but they damaged a relatively high number of consignments and, because their insurance had a £25 excess we couldn`t even claim for all this stock they were returning damaged, and, that, upset me greatly. When they started strictly applying the rules over supplements for 10ft poles we left and went to TNT. At first TNT were significantly more expensive, but the service was better and as we increased our volumes (and got a good offer from APC, they`re worth trying, they sound pretty good) TNT brought the price down.
This is slightly off the topic though, on teh subject of Royal Mail we use them for small orders (letter post) as we pay to get them in every day, though the amount of stuff we sent with them letter post went down last year when they became totally inflexible on sizing (illogically so.......). We did use RM Standard Parcels for medium size orders [size wise] to locations which all carriers charge a hefty surcharge for(NW Scotland, NI etc) but this is going to stop on the 2nd April. And I can`t see many of the good burghers of Belfast paying a £20 supplement for a TV aerial sent by TNT, so we`ll lose those orders !

 

[Steve2507]

I was a bit worried about various services being dropped as well, but all they are effectively doing is re-naming some services.

So instead of the first class and second class of these services you have '24' and '48'

 

[Justin Smith]

I was a bit worried about various services being dropped as well, but all they are effectively doing is re-naming some services.

So instead of the first class and second class of these services you have '24' and '48'

They aren`t renaming "Standard Parcels", they`re withdrawing it.
The longest item you can now send by RM is 61cm, before it was 150cm, I really don`t think people in the NW of Scotland or NI etc are waking up to how significant this is to them and their wallets......

 

[Steve2507]

Okay, fair enough I hadn't spotted the length dropping.

However you have got to see that the old style one size fits all service they used to offer is outdated and impractical. RM has got to change and start charging different prices where it needs to.

 

[Esk247]

Okay, fair enough I hadn't spotted the length dropping.

However you have got to see that the old style one size fits all service they used to offer is outdated and impractical. RM has got to change and start charging different prices where it needs to.

They're not making it easy to follow though are they. Everyones confused. We're confused. We were confused when they changed the prices last time as suddenly half our parcels were too expensive to be sent by RM and are now sent by courier.

 

[paretowasright]

They're not making it easy to follow though are they. Everyones confused. We're confused. We were confused when they changed the prices last time as suddenly half our parcels were too expensive to be sent by RM and are now sent by courier.

Well unfortunately incompetence is the standard operating practice for anything state owned with the Government involved. Just look at the total chaos the rail industry is in.

 

[Steve2507]

Well unfortunately incompetence is the standard operating practice for anything state owned with the Government involved. Just look at the total chaos the rail industry is in.

But would you really want Royal Mail to become privately owned.

As bad as they can be I believe they would be a lot worse if the go private.

 

[kulture]

Alas I am not sure it is incompetence. I believe that they know exactly what they are doing. That the fog of confusion is intentional. What they are doing is setting themselves up to do a massive price hike, each year, under the nose of the regulator. First it was the letter, large letter, packet device to raise prices on a significant amount of post. Then it was the erosion of the weight bands on packets. Now it is further erosion of the weight bands (which no-one seems to be screaming about) coupled with the potential in future of fuel surcharges and "volumetric" charges based on their rather absurd contention that 70% of all parcels would fit a 80mm depth.

No, it is not incompetence, it is conspiracy.

 

[Justin Smith]

Alas I am not sure it is incompetence. I believe that they know exactly what they are doing. That the fog of confusion is intentional. What they are doing is setting themselves up to do a massive price hike, each year, under the nose of the regulator. First it was the letter, large letter, packet device to raise prices on a significant amount of post. Then it was the erosion of the weight bands on packets. Now it is further erosion of the weight bands (which no-one seems to be screaming about) coupled with the potential in future of fuel surcharges and "volumetric" charges based on their rather absurd contention that 70% of all parcels would fit a 80mm depth.

No, it is not incompetence, it is conspiracy.

Their inflexible and illogical attiude to sizing shows business incompetence, of that, there`s no doubt.

 

[serendipitybusiness]

What they don't seem to care about is the fact that they are hurting the economy as a whole by pushing online retail prices up. They have done this on purpose as you say to confuse the end user so they don't realise what is happening. As I have said before with standard mail demand slipping and online retail growing, small parcels are their cash cow and they intend to milk it for all it is worth.

Bad news for online retail as the customers still haven't caught up since the last price hike they still can't believe the cost of postage.

My ebay listings have 5 out of 5 for all the others but 4.9 out of 5 for postage and I subsidise the postage, don't account for packaging costs, offer free postage for orders over £30, despatch within 24hrs and they are still not happy, what else can you do lol!

I have to say it but every time something like this happens it just hardens my resolve to leave this country, they don't make it easy for business to flourish here.

 

[Mister B]

It's an absolute nightmare...one thing having weight bands but size and weight bands complicates it all beyond belief.

Fortunately enough for us we'll still be able to send the majority of our orders out as small parcels under 1kg in weight. The rest though will be sent through Parcelforce.

It would be interesteing to see how they police the changes so as to ensure the correct amount of postage is applied on each parcel.

Mister B

 

[Justin Smith]

It's an absolute nightmare...one thing having weight bands but size and weight bands complicates it all beyond belief.

Fortunately enough for us we'll still be able to send the majority of our orders out as small parcels under 1kg in weight. The rest though will be sent through Parcelforce.

It would be interesting to see how they police the changes so as to ensure the correct amount of postage is applied on each parcel.

Mister B

When we started getting Half Wave dipoles (illogically*) sent back "oversize" we were told by the Postie that they had someone with a size guide at the end of the sorting line kicking back all the "oversize" items. Actually, they soon stopped sending them back, they just delivered them and sent us a request/demand for extra franking (plus an "underpayment charge", obviously) to cover the cost of standard Parcels over a First Class recorded packet. Of course they don`t do Standard parcels anymore, so it`d be interesting to see what they`d do in that exact instance after the 2 Apr 2013 !

* Even the local RM revenue protection officer was prepared to let them through OK, it was him who pointed out they`d actually fit "corner to corner" in the 'largest permissable packet', but the RM, like most large organisation are insufficiently flexible....

 

[Justin Smith]

What they don't seem to care about is the fact that they are hurting the economy as a whole by pushing online retail prices up. They have done this on purpose as you say to confuse the end user so they don't realise what is happening. As I have said before with standard mail demand slipping and online retail growing, small parcels are their cash cow and they intend to milk it for all it is worth.

Bad news for online retail as the customers still haven't caught up since the last price hike they still can't believe the cost of postage.

My ebay listings have 5 out of 5 for all the others but 4.9 out of 5 for postage and I subsidise the postage, don't account for packaging costs, offer free postage for orders over £30, despatch within 24hrs and they are still not happy, what else can you do lol!

I have to say it but every time something like this happens it just hardens my resolve to leave this country, they don't make it easy for business to flourish here.

It`s not the RM`s job to subsidise cheap carriage for mail order retailers. My gripe with them is that their sizing is inflexible and illogical, plus the fact they`re trying to avoid their Universal Service Obligation. And their customer service is crap, obviously. Have you ever tried getting the number of a local delivery office ? And if you can they rarely answer the phone......
Incidentally, unless your orders are very small and light, how the hell can you do free carriage over £30 ? Excluding VAT that`s just a £25 order, even if you have a very high profit margin I`d have thought free carriage was unsustainable. It`s certainly not the fault of the RM, how much would a carrier charge you for the same ?

 

[QuickHomeBuyers]

Also, compensation on non-recorded/tracked items will now be limited to £20

First/Second class stamp prices will not change however prices for parcels will go up for both first and second class items.

Recorded/signed for addon has gone upto £1.10 from £0.95p

Also, you won't be able to send 2nd class parcels for item's weighing 2kg or more, which was possible with standard parcel.

Example, a 2.1kg item sent Standard Parcel now costs £8.80 provides, £46 insurance will shoot upto £13.35 and the compensation will come down to £20 unless you pay extra £1.10 for Recorded/Signed-for addon.

 

[paretowasright]

Also, compensation on non-recorded/tracked items will now be limited to £20

First/Second class stamp prices will not change however prices for parcels will go up for both first and second class items.

Recorded/signed for addon has gone upto £1.10 from £0.95p

Also, you won't be able to send 2nd class parcels for item's weighing 2kg or more, which was possible with standard parcel.

Example, a 2.1kg item sent Standard Parcel now costs £8.80 provides, £46 insurance will shoot upto £13.35 and the compensation will come down to £20 unless you pay extra £1.10 for Recorded/Signed-for addon.

Hi are you 100% sure on that recorded fee increase as I have been told 3 times its staying at 0.95p?

 

[QuickHomeBuyers]

http://www.royalmail.com/sites/default/files/RoyalMail_OurPrices_April2013.pdf

 

[Esk247]

http://www.royalmail.com/sites/default/files/RoyalMail_OurPrices_April2013.pdf

My god. That's like an infographic of doom.

I'm going to print it out and stick it on my wall...no wait..i'll need a wallpaper printer!

 

[paretowasright]

http://www.royalmail.com/sites/default/files/RoyalMail_OurPrices_April2013.pdf

Point taken thanks (just shows how ill informed Royal mail staff are)

 

[planemadgirly]

It`s not the RM`s job to subsidise cheap carriage for mail order retailers. My gripe with them is that their sizing is inflexible and illogical, plus the fact they`re trying to avoid their Universal Service Obligation. And their customer service is crap, obviously. Have you ever tried getting the number of a local delivery office ? And if you can they rarely answer the phone......
Incidentally, unless your orders are very small and light, how the hell can you do free carriage over £30 ? Excluding VAT that`s just a £25 order, even if you have a very high profit margin I`d have thought free carriage was unsustainable. It`s certainly not the fault of the RM, how much would a carrier charge you for the same ?

That is a big bone of contention...some delivery offices have a tel no..most do not and those that do, either dont answer the phone or have an answer machine that says sorry the message service is full
Saying that I have found recently a couple of good ones but most i just cannot get thro to..these Delivery Offices should have a local number that can be easily found on the RMail site!!

 

[Justin Smith]

That is a big bone of contention...some delivery offices have a tel no..most do not and those that do, either dont answer the phone or have an answer machine that says sorry the message service is full
Saying that I have found recently a couple of good ones but most i just cannot get thro to..these Delivery Offices should have a local number that can be easily found on the RMail site!!

The fact there`s no easy way for us (or the customer) to contact the RN Local Delivery Depots is probably the worst thing about the RM service. Most RM orders do get there fine, we`ve only had about 2 lost completely (as in they never turned up at all) in all the years we`ve been using the RM, but we use Recorded and that`s only tracked once signed for. So, when the customer phones to say they haven`t had their order all we can say is it`s almost certainly at their local LDO, sorry we can`t even give you the phone number, can you call round ? And that, sounds pretty poor, but what else can we do ? Sometimes we have to send out a duplicate order, then what often happens is the RM deliver both at the same time, sometimes the customer cancels the order, which then leaves us in an awkward position, all because the customer couldn`t phone the LDO, absolutely ridiculous, and proof that the RM really aren`t that bothered about customer service, even to businesses

 

[VATHelp]

Guys, if you go here http://www.saynoto0870.com/search.php and type Royal Mail in to the search - it will give you the numbers of all delivery offices

 

[Justin Smith]

Guys, if you go here http://www.saynoto0870.com/search.php and type Royal Mail in to the search - it will give you the numbers of all delivery offices

That is useful VH, the only problem is they aren`t in alphabetical order, and whether they actually answer the phone..........

 

[Justin Smith]

That is useful VH, the only problem is they aren`t in alphabetical order, and whether they actually answer the phone..........

I`ve just had this problem. A customer in High Wycombe hadn`t had his order, even though it was sent First Class Recorded on the 20th of Feb ! I thought I`d phone the nearest LDO and looked on the list accessed with the above link, but even using Google Highlight to quicken the search, "High Wycombe" wasn`t on it. Thus you have to know the name of the Local Delivery Office for the relevant post code in order to find it. I suspect that even if the LDO had been located and its number found they wouldn`t have answered the phone anyway, so I didn`t bother going any further !

 

[greengecko]

Royal Mail Signed For™ parcel prices

• 1st Class Small Parcels prices start from £4.10

Considering it costs us £4.46 or something similar for next day delivery via one of our couriers, it appears we won't be using Royal Mail at all (Other than for Remote Service Areas!).

 

[Edward_]

Royal Mail as a business model just amazes me.

They moan about the lack of letters due to email etc and use it to put the price of stamps up. They conveniently forget about all the extra packages they're delivering due to ebay and the internet in general.

I too have just received these new charges details and they're a joke - all businesses will do is look for an alternative. Even packages weighing just 1kg now are getting expensive.

Is Yodel or anyone like that worth a go?

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

Could somebody tell me if i've got this wrong?

Current price for parcel up to 30k on a 48 hour service with Parcelforce £10.25 or thereabouts.

From April it's going up to: £37.99

 

[Justin Smith]

Royal Mail Signed For™ parcel prices

• 1st Class Small Parcels prices start from £4.10

Considering it costs us £4.46 or something similar for next day delivery via one of our couriers, it appears we won't be using Royal Mail at all (Other than for Remote Service Areas!).

And the parcel is fully tracked.
The fact that VAT is (effectively) not refundable on RM carriage charges also makes it more expensive than it would at first appear when compared with a carrier.
Having said that, there`s not many people that can get a consignment delivered for only £4.46 by carrier, that`s very cheap......

 

[greengecko]

And the parcel is fully tracked.
The fact that VAT is (effectively) not refundable on RM carriage charges also makes it more expensive than it would at first appear when compared with a carrier.
Having said that, there`s not many people that can get a consignment delivered for only £4.46 by carrier, that`s very cheap......

Indeed, actually our Royal Mail collection was stopped at the beginning of this year because we were gradually using them less and less with all there changes.

Our price did take a bit of bargaining, however £4.75-5.00 can be easily achieved as long as you are shipping around 50+ parcels a week at a guess.

I have used our ex VAT prices though, just incase anyone thought it was £4.46 incl VAT (can dream!)

 

[Berkshire Business]

We all want a reliable delivery service, its a simple case of finding a new delivery service which offers a reasonable rate and like i said, one you can rely on.

 

[planemadgirly]

Royal Mail as a business model just amazes me.

They moan about the lack of letters due to email etc and use it to put the price of stamps up. They conveniently forget about all the extra packages they're delivering due to ebay and the internet in general.

I too have just received these new charges details and they're a joke - all businesses will do is look for an alternative. Even packages weighing just 1kg now are getting expensive.

Is Yodel or anyone like that worth a go?

I would leave Yodel alone..personally had probs with goods received from them..had a laptop go walkies from there, and quite a few things with delayed delivery!

 

[QuickHomeBuyers]

I find it very ironic from businesses coming on board saying RM is hurting their business. RM is a business too and they need to make a profit just like you need to.

You alone won't be suffering from the price rise, so I can't see how your competitors will be any better?

 

[Justin Smith]

I find it very ironic from businesses coming on board saying RM is hurting their business. RM is a business too and they need to make a profit just like you need to.

You alone won't be suffering from the price rise, so I can't see how your competitors will be any better?

My argument with RM isn`t specifically price based, because, as you say, it`s a business, well sort of anyway. Even if they are (or should be) subsidised for their Universal Service Obligation they should be as efficient as possible in maximising revenue, up to a point anyway.
My arguments with RM are two fold :
1 They`re breaking their Universal Service Obligation by withdrawing Standard Parcels.
2 Their rules are illogically inflexible so are they`re costing me, my customers, and themselves, money.

Oh yes, and their customer service is crap.

 

[QuickHomeBuyers]

My argument with RM isn`t specifically price based, because, as you say, it`s a business, well sort of anyway. Even if they are (or should be) subsidised for their Universal Service Obligation they should be as efficient as possible in maximising revenue, up to a point anyway.
My arguments with RM are two fold :
1 They`re breaking their Universal Service Obligation by withdrawing Standard Parcels.
2 Their rules are illogically inflexible so are they`re costing me, my customers, and themselves, money.

Oh yes, and their customer service is crap.

They are replacing Standard Parcels with Second Class post.

 

[Justin Smith]

They are replacing Standard Parcels with Second Class post.

Er, no they`re not. Apart from the increased cost, the longest item you can send Second Class (to be called a medium size packet) is 61cm. The longest item with Standard Parcels was 150cm, and that, in my book, is a completely different service.

 

[Esk247]

You alone won't be suffering from the price rise, so I can't see how your competitors will be any better?

Maybe not but to say it doesn't affect businesses would be silly. We're going to have to stop absorbing the postage cost. It may have a serious effect on one of my businesses as that was a big draw for customers, one price, no delivery fees and super quick delivery.

Sales are already down this year in general. RM are really not helping themselves by a) implementing price hikes when the economy is knackered b) making it so complex that people are heading to forums to try and find out what on earth the costs are changing to c) not telling their staff what the costs are going to be, we're getting told different things by different people and as for that RM chart..have you seen it??? you could wall paper your whole house with it

Surely RM would want MORE parcels through their offices not less? I don't see the big picture with all this. Just by putting their prices up doesn't mean they'll automagically get more profit, they'll just stand more risk of competitors challenging them, especially on local deliveries.

 

[Justin Smith]

I think I`m right with this one, if not please correct me.
If it`s practical for you to actually take your parcels round to the Post Office (as opposed to having the RM and/or Parcelforce call in to your business every day) you will still be able to send a parcel anywhere in the UK without paying a supplement. As far as I understand it the NI/NW Scotland supplements are only applicable to businesses paying on account, thus you can get round that by taking the stuff into the PO and paying cash.
It`s not actually practical for us to do this*, that`s why we pay £750 + VAT per year to get a daily RM collection, but hopefully someone will be able to do it and save quite a bit of dosh for their customer, and therefore get a sale they probably wouldn`t have otherwise got !

* There`s no car parking anywhere near our local PO for a start.....