Royal Mail now far less flexible in their definition of "a packet" ?

Justin Smith · Jun 6, 2012

Am I the only one who has found that since about March RM are much stricter about sizing (i.e. what constitutes a packet or a parcel etc) ?

Over the years we`ve sent out literally hundreds of Half Wave FM Dipole aerials and never had a problem, but in the last few months we`ve been getting them sent back from the collection office, then about a month ago they`ve started sending through demands for extra franking but aren`t able to tell us anything about why the extra should be needed.
The largest packet which can be sent is 61cm x 46cm x 46cm (which equates to 129,000cc)
A Half wave FM Dipole is 76cm x 11cm x 15cm (which is 12,540cc)
The fact they`re no longer letting Half Waves go as Packets is ridiculous anyway. I accept that they`re 14 cm longer than the "largest dimension" but RM will accept a tube up to 900mm long anyway.
Even more bizarre is the fact a Half Wave Dipole will fit corner to corner in the "largest permissible packet" ! So we could send them out in huge boxes 10x the volume and they`d still be counted as packets !
We don`t want to send them Parcel post because :
1 It`s on a 3 to 5 day delivery
2 It`s twice as expensive
3 You can`t use "Recorded" with a parcel.
Result ?
We`re sending them TNT, so everyone (us, the customer and RM) loses out because it costs even more than Parcel post !
RM must be getting stricter because they`re trying to maximise revenue, but it`ll actually cost them revenue with us.
Surely it`d make more sense to say just so long as the largest dimension is under 900mm and the total volume is less than the "largest permissible packet" (particularly if it`s a tenth the volume), they should be counted as packets ? ! ?
Question, has RM got a death wish ?

CherylDavis · Jun 6, 2012

Yes they are strictly enforcing it all.
Yes they have a death wish.
Even normal post is no longer possible. You post a letter and it doesn't get sent, because it is not the accepted length. Once you stuck a stamp on and it went, these days you have to queue up to weigh and measure it before you dare post.

arcon5 · Jun 6, 2012

So you're annoyed because you are under paying postage and RM want to recoup this?

The simple fact is your parcel is larger in height than that specified for that particular service

deniser · Jun 6, 2012

Could you get it into a tube with a wider diameter?

CherylDavis · Jun 7, 2012

I think he's annoyed because for years it has been fine to post it as he had, then they changed the rules.

I think that not being able to just post a birthday card is annoying. I would rather send a ecard now, not as nice, but at least the recipient gets it without having to pay more if it is a fifth of a millimetre to big with the envelope. So the card companies have also lost a sale.

TheDistributionConsultant · Jun 7, 2012

How much do they weigh? If you want to get I touch I might be able to help.

Websitehandyman · Jun 7, 2012

It's annoying when you have bought A4 padded envelops in bulk and find the template for posting is A4. Meaning that these envelops don't fit because they are made to TAKE A4 so they have to be bigger then A4.

Justin Smith · Jun 7, 2012

arcon5 said:
So you're annoyed because you are under paying postage and RM want to recoup this?

The simple fact is your parcel is larger in height than that specified for that particular service

I`m annoyed because RM`s new policy all so absolutely bleedin` pointless and counter productive.......
Did you read where I said that the aerials in question will actually fit corner to corner within the largest allowable "packet" ? Thus it`d be perfectly OK to send them in a box ten times the volume, taking up far more of the space in their vans, but they`d be classified as packets ! How logical is that ? ! ?
Even the local RM Revenue Protection Manager is prepared to let the smaller (but slightly longer) boxes go as "packets" but the other parts of RM are insufficiently flexible/reasonable to allow this, thus they now go TNT.

Could someone please explain to me how RM have benefited from this absurdly rigid definition ?

Justin Smith · Jun 7, 2012

TheDistributionConsultant said:
How much do they weigh? If you want to get I touch I might be able to help.

Thank you for your offer, if we`re careful with the packing we can just get them under 750g. The problem is, if I can, I`d rather not use more than two carriers because it`d just get so complicated. RM for the smaller cheaper stuff, and TNT for the larger/heavier more expensive stuff. I know TNT are the most expensive carrier but they`re customer service is better (though it`s not as good as it used to be) and they`re the only carrier I know who will take a 10ft pole to a domestic address, certainly without adding a ridiculously high surcharge.

Justin Smith · Jun 13, 2012

Justin Smith said:
Am I the only one who has found that since about March RM are much stricter about sizing (i.e. what constitutes a packet or a parcel etc) ?

Over the years we`ve sent out literally hundreds of Half Wave FM Dipole aerials and never had a problem, but in the last few months we`ve been getting them sent back from the collection office, then about a month ago they`ve started sending through demands for extra franking but aren`t able to tell us anything about why the extra should be needed.
The largest packet which can be sent is 61cm x 46cm x 46cm (which equates to 129,000cc)
A Half wave FM Dipole is 76cm x 11cm x 15cm (which is 12,540cc)
The fact they`re no longer letting Half Waves go as Packets is ridiculous anyway. I accept that they`re 14 cm longer than the "largest dimension" but RM will accept a tube up to 900mm long anyway.
Even more bizarre is the fact a Half Wave Dipole will fit corner to corner in the "largest permissible packet" ! So we could send them out in huge boxes 10x the volume and they`d still be counted as packets !
We don`t want to send them Parcel post because :
1 It`s on a 3 to 5 day delivery
2 It`s twice as expensive
3 You can`t use "Recorded" with a parcel.
Result ?
We`re sending them TNT, so everyone (us, the customer and RM) loses out because it costs even more than Parcel post !
RM must be getting stricter because they`re trying to maximise revenue, but it`ll actually cost them revenue with us.
Surely it`d make more sense to say just so long as the largest dimension is under 900mm and the total volume is less than the "largest permissible packet" (particularly if it`s a tenth the volume), they should be counted as packets ? ! ?
Question, has RM got a death wish ?

Well, unless I`ve put this question in the wrong forum, I guess there aren`t many others out there who have found RM to be far more fussy over sizing since March, which, I have to say, surprises me a bit.

kulture · Jun 13, 2012

Justin Smith said:
Well, unless I`ve put this question in the wrong forum, I guess there aren`t many others out there who have found RM to be far more fussy over sizing since March, which, I have to say, surprises me a bit.

I suspect that it is more likely that the majority of us stick to the sizing guides and do not try to send out packets that are bigger than they permit.

SamStones · Jun 13, 2012

According to:

http://www.royalmail.com/royal-mail-you/size-weight-formats-mail?campaignid=pip

You're only 2cm over the maximum dimensions for a cylinder:

Sending a poster?

The maximum length for rolled or cylindrical items is 900mm, and the length plus twice the item diameter must be no more than 1040mm.

So it's only 2cm, but it is still over...

If you claim the item fits diagonally in a box that are at the maximum (610mm x 460mm x 460mm) then why not just send it out as such?
My calculations say that it doesn't fit in this box:

Using Pythagorean Theorem, the diagonal of the box is:

61 square + 46 square = 76.4cm , your package is 76cm long BUT 11cm wide which means it won't fit.

Unfortunately it seems the item you're referring to falls just outside the boundary, and every service needs its boundaries to function. We have plenty of products that are just over, and they have to go with a courier. End of!

Justin Smith · Jun 22, 2012

SamStones said:
According to:

You're only 2cm over the maximum dimensions for a cylinder:

So it's only 2cm, but it is still over...

If you claim the item fits diagonally in a box that are at the maximum (610mm x 460mm x 460mm) then why not just send it out as such?
My calculations say that it doesn't fit in this box:

Using Pythagorean Theorem, the diagonal of the box is:

61 square + 46 square = 76.4cm , your package is 76cm long BUT 11cm wide which means it won't fit.

Unfortunately it seems the item you're referring to falls just outside the boundary, and every service needs its boundaries to function. We have plenty of products that are just over, and they have to go with a courier. End of!

If you take the aerial out of the small custom made boxes and put them in a box of the maximum permitted package size (we have one made up in the shop), they fit corner to corner quite comfortably, in fact there`s about 2in to spare (as for your calculation you`re doing it in 2 dimensions not 3).
It`d obviously make no sense to send a relatively small aerial in a huge box like that, quite apart from the additional expense (and weight) there`d be even more packaging for the customer to have to get rid of. As was (obviously) pointed out by the local RM Revenue Protection Officer they wouldn`t get many of those huge boxes in their vans would they ? Whereas our smaller boxes are about one tenth of the volume. What sums it all up is that he actually said he was prepared to pass it as a package, he obviously has a bit of a business brain about him, unlike the rest of the RM`s management.......
The fact of the matter is it makes absolutely no sense (either logically or from a business perspective) for the RM to be so pedantic and inflexible, but that`s often what you get with large organisations.

Trisha&ChrisPlant · Jun 22, 2012

Justin Smith said:
Well, unless I`ve put this question in the wrong forum, I guess there aren`t many others out there who have found RM to be far more fussy over sizing since March, which, I have to say, surprises me a bit.

Yes, they are getting much more fussy. I frequently send abroad using the small packet international signed for service which has to be no more than 900mm counting up the three dimensions. I used to be able to get away with something that was just a tad over - but not now. The parcels have to be carefully measured, otherwise they come back!

Trisha

Justin Smith · Jul 3, 2012

SamStones said:
According to RM :

You're only 2cm over the maximum dimensions for a cylinder:

So it's only 2cm, but it is still over...

If you claim the item fits diagonally in a box that are at the maximum (610mm x 460mm x 460mm) then why not just send it out as such?
My calculations say that it doesn't fit in this box:

Using Pythagorean Theorem, the diagonal of the box is:

61 square + 46 square = 76.4cm , your package is 76cm long BUT 11cm wide which means it won't fit.

Unfortunately it seems the item you're referring to falls just outside the boundary, and every service needs its boundaries to function. We have plenty of products that are just over, and they have to go with a courier. End of!

In two dimensions.
61Sq + 46Sq then take the square root equals 76.4cm.

But then add in the third dimension.
76.4Sq + 46Sq then take the square root equals 89.2cm, which is about what we find when measuring our "maximum packet size box".

QED Royal Mail`s refusal to count our boxes as packets is illogical, objectively (and provably) so in fact.

Justin Smith · Jul 18, 2012

In the last full month after we stopped sending anything by RM which didn`t exactly conform to their size guidelines (though as I`ve already explained these are illogical) our spend with RM went down 30% over the same period last year, and that was despite them having a hefty price rise in the interim.
Our spend with TNT went up 10%.
Question : Does anyone at RM know anything about business ?

Justin Smith · Mar 19, 2013

Justin Smith said:
Am I the only one who has found that since about March RM are much stricter about sizing (i.e. what constitutes a packet or a parcel etc) ?

Over the years we`ve sent out literally hundreds of Half Wave FM Dipole aerials and never had a problem, but in the last few months we`ve been getting them sent back from the collection office, then about a month ago they`ve started sending through demands for extra franking but aren`t able to tell us anything about why the extra should be needed.
The largest packet which can be sent is 61cm x 46cm x 46cm (which equates to 129,000cc)
A Half wave FM Dipole is 76cm x 11cm x 15cm (which is 12,540cc)
The fact they`re no longer letting Half Waves go as Packets is ridiculous anyway. I accept that they`re 14 cm longer than the "largest dimension" but RM will accept a tube up to 900mm long anyway.
Even more bizarre is the fact a Half Wave Dipole will fit corner to corner in the "largest permissible packet" ! So we could send them out in huge boxes 10x the volume and they`d still be counted as packets !
We don`t want to send them Parcel post because :
1 It`s on a 3 to 5 day delivery
2 It`s twice as expensive
3 You can`t use "Recorded" with a parcel.
Result ?
We`re sending them TNT, so everyone (us, the customer and RM) loses out because it costs even more than Parcel post !
RM must be getting stricter because they`re trying to maximise revenue, but it`ll actually cost them revenue with us.
Surely it`d make more sense to say just so long as the largest dimension is under 900mm and the total volume is less than the "largest permissible packet" (particularly if it`s a tenth the volume), they should be counted as packets ? ! ?
Question, has RM got a death wish ?

As from the 2nd of April this year we won`t even have the option to send them Parcelpost because the RM are withdrawing from Parcelpost !

Justin Smith · Mar 19, 2013

Justin Smith said:
Am I the only one who has found that since about March RM are much stricter about sizing (i.e. what constitutes a packet or a parcel etc) ?

Over the years we`ve sent out literally hundreds of Half Wave FM Dipole aerials and never had a problem, but in the last few months we`ve been getting them sent back from the collection office, then about a month ago they`ve started sending through demands for extra franking but aren`t able to tell us anything about why the extra should be needed.
The largest packet which can be sent is 61cm x 46cm x 46cm (which equates to 129,000cc)
A Half wave FM Dipole is 76cm x 11cm x 15cm (which is 12,540cc)
The fact they`re no longer letting Half Waves go as Packets is ridiculous anyway. I accept that they`re 14 cm longer than the "largest dimension" but RM will accept a tube up to 900mm long anyway.
Even more bizarre is the fact a Half Wave Dipole will fit corner to corner in the "largest permissible packet" ! So we could send them out in huge boxes 10x the volume and they`d still be counted as packets !
We don`t want to send them Parcel post because :
1 It`s on a 3 to 5 day delivery
2 It`s twice as expensive
3 You can`t use "Recorded" with a parcel.
Result ?
We`re sending them TNT, so everyone (us, the customer and RM) loses out because it costs even more than Parcel post !
RM must be getting stricter because they`re trying to maximise revenue, but it`ll actually cost them revenue with us.
Surely it`d make more sense to say just so long as the largest dimension is under 900mm and the total volume is less than the "largest permissible packet" (particularly if it`s a tenth the volume), they should be counted as packets ? ! ?
Question, has RM got a death wish ?

As from the 2nd of April this year we won`t even have the option to send them Parcelpost because the RM are withdrawing Parcelpost !

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Royal Mail now far less flexible in their definition of "a packet" ?

Justin Smith

CherylDavis

arcon5

deniser

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TheDistributionConsultant

Websitehandyman

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Justin Smith

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kulture

SamStones

Justin Smith

Trisha&ChrisPlant

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