RIP cold calling

[telemax]

You can also get people to take the call by engaging with them on a professional level and having a proper conversation instead of diving in and "pitching" a service which may or may not be relevant. Building relationships with PAs and secretaries is a crucial part of this and perhaps an linked in introduction would be a useful tool as well. In the end though you generally have to ring them up

Absolutely right, cold calling is often a matter of speaking to secretaries and getting them on side to help you out, this can get you through to an otherwise impossible to reach decision maker.

Cold calling done properly and skillfully is a fantastic way of building contacts, it always has been and probably always will be. It all comes down to the way that you speak to people, unfortunately many people are afraid to pick up the phone and make a call.

All of the other stuff such as Email, social networking is also excellent but works in a different way, both methods can also complement the other

 

[Neil Warren]

I think the main point being made, Eagle, is not so much that there is some networking activity nor, indeed, that cold-calling will absolutely stop, but rather that we might be witnessing a significant shift in the values of each and thus the proportion of time individuals and companies might spend on each.

Indeed, in the world of the bigger corporations, this debate has only really got as far as considering whether or not to even allow your (sales) staff out into networking scenarios - and I think we'll be reporting some more on that as it develops. But consider also that, although radio did not kill print, nor TV kill radio, nor the web all of those, there have, nonetheless, been some pretty hefty shifts in our habits as consumers and the marketers who follow us around.

Just the same then with the absolute fortunes currently being spent on telemarketing and cold calling, and worthy of debate, surely, if this is in a significant period of change? And in my own rather feeble sample of one, I can certainly testify that it has got harder and harder over the last 30 years to reach people by telephone, making it less and less effective a means of either cold calling or keeping in touch. So how much more ineffective is it if that "fact" is multiplied up to the hundreds of thousands of sales people and call-centre staff involved, and the countless millions of telephone calls they all (try to) make?

(ah, sorry, I was only half way down page one of the thread - didn't realise it had got to 9(!) pages - I'll read on....

....hmmm, yes, a fascinating divide/debate!)

I am a little bit intrigued about why the cold calling evangelists are on here networking/posting and mentioning their services. Looking for business guys?

And I forgot to mention the 'umble telephone in my print v radio v TV v Internet point. Not to mention the post/Royal Mail. It is also illustrative to consider that none of these form of media were originally intended as mass marketing tools, they just wax and wane as (cost-) effective forms of communicating with prospects. So the points about "traditional" and "always have, always will" should maybe be seen in the context that none of this was around a hundred or so years ago (or not much anyway). I have also owned/run a B2B database for 20 years now, and seen the use of that shift dramatically from mail to phone to fax (briefly) and now email - or a mixture of them all of course.

And I think the other main point I noted whilst reading was on the time effectiveness issue of calling v posting (let's call it that). One telephone call = one conversation (if you're lucky, targeted, good data etc.). One posting, (depending on the popularity and relevance of the site of course) might well = hundreds or thousands of viewings, by potential customers.

Right, pizza's here - catch you all later.

Best

Neil

 

[Jezclayton]

Cold calling = old hat, boring and bloody annoying... who needs it? Type into your preferred search engine (even better if you actually understand how to search, do an advanced search) what you are looking for and bingo... Persuade me otherwise, never had anyone sell me crap that I did not need and if I need something...it's easy to find.

Couldn't agree more though interested to note the pack are so busy comparing different methods of making the kill that your views went unheard.

Seems the moon is out and the smell of human flesh is too strong to resist.

P.S. - Looks like Oasis has disappeared from the field of play. Was that an early kill?

 

[Shay]

Neil, why wouldn't those of us who cold call for a living post on a subject that maybe relevant to them?

As for the subject in hand, there will always be preferences and as social networking reaches its peak that avenue may well open more doors. As long as there is a telephone then I personally feel cold calling will still be alive and kicking. If the trend goes towards networking sites even more then cold calling will become that bit more challenging.

 

[wecandobiz]

Couldn't agree more though interested to note the pack are so busy comparing different methods of making the kill that your views went unheard.

Seems the moon is out and the smell of human flesh is too strong to resist.

P.S. - Looks like Oasis has disappeared from the field of play. Was that an early kill?

But that arguement suggests sales is redundant -- any company could survive on business generated from marketing (SEO marketing specifically in this case). Any company without a pro-active sales team wouldn't last that long.

A few people in this debate had picked up on the thoughts I am having on the telesales side of my business: should we spent more time social networking before calling to make more progress when we speak to the prospect...? When I started WeCanDo.BIZ it wasn't with a view to it being that relevant to my lead gen business, but it could end up being a useful tool.

IH

 

[Jezclayton]

I am all in favour of QUALIFIED tepid calling and suspect that those who claim a 50% success rate are doing just that. What I object to is random cold calling.

If we need something new we can find it on Google. If we have established a pattern of buying certain goods/services a call from another company that believes they can offer us something better may be welcomed.

The trouble is every time we have bought from a cold call we have been conned hence we are likely to hang up.

Good to read the thread though. Evesdropping the lions den.

 

[wecandobiz]

I am all in favour of QUALIFIED tepid calling and suspect that those who claim a 50% success rate are doing just that. What I object to is random cold calling.

If we need something new we can find it on Google. If we have established a pattern of buying certain goods/services a call from another company that believes they can offer us something better may be welcomed.

The trouble is every time we have bought from a cold call we have been conned hence we are likely to hang up.

Good to read the thread though. Evesdropping the lions den.

So an obvious question Jez, would you "trust" an approach made to you from an inidividual from a company you son't know on a social network, if they made clear why they though you should connect?

IH

 

[Cornish Steve]

So an obvious question Jez, would you "trust" an approach made to you from an inidividual from a company you son't know on a social network, if they made clear why they though you should connect?

In fairness, let's clarify the question: As a senior manager in a company, would you trust an approach made to you from an individual at a company you don't know on a social network but who is selling relevant products or services?

One message coming through in this thread is that b2b calling is very different from b2c calling. Of course, it's your question, not mine, so you can ask what you like , but the answer might be different if it's phrased for b2b communication.

 

[Jezclayton]

I've thought about this and it depends on the approach.

For instance, were I to make it known that we had a need and an offer of assistance was posted within the thread, I might well take the offer up. On the other hand, if the offer was by PM I would delete it as spam.

 

[wecandobiz]

I've thought about this and it depends on the approach.

For instance, were I to make it known that we had a need and an offer of assistance was posted within the thread, I might well take the offer up. On the other hand, if the offer was by PM I would delete it as spam.

OK, that's interesting. Given that Matthew, the author or the article that started the debate, knew about our Biz Need feature -- where you can post a need and we send it to other members we believe can help -- then perhaps we are on to something.

I'd be interested to hear the opinions of others. As much as us as sales people can debate the merits, maybe we should be listening to our "targets"...?

IH

 

[adventurelife]

It is not one or the other and never will be. Each business that wants to grow an thrive has to work out its marketing and sales mix and then design a system to implement. The business then has to measure the results of the marketing and sales mix and make adjustments to suit.

As the business environment changes, which it will do at faster and faster speed, your system has to pick up the changes and adapt.

Each type of business will have a different system and a different mix, some will have cold calling as a high priority others will not. For the long game though all businesses need to understand their system and have exposure in all routes to market and fully understand which routes proven by testing work for them.

I see huge value and have gained huge value from cold calling, social networking, business networking, SEO , referral marketing etc etc It all comes down to your understanding on how the mix works at the optimum level for you.

A word of warning on social networking and business networking as I think they are both closely related. I see huge amounts of people wasting the one thing they have 100% control of in their lives. Time.

Put a price on your time and measure how much time you spend on the networks versus return and compare against other routes to market.

 

[allaboard]

A word of warning on social networking and business networking as I think they are both closely related. I see huge amounts of people wasting the one thing they have 100% control of in their lives. Time.


I totally agree with the above comment

The total concept of cold-calling is to establish a need or a requirement for your services, and I will say spin-selling does apply in cold-calling, in fact of one the spin-selling methods relates solely to cold-calling
and using this approach/method has helped gain a major client

And 99% of our clients were gained from initial cold-calling

if your evangelistic/passionate about your products services this will come over in the call

When I`m cold-called, I will listen if that person can talk with knowlege and answer questions when asked ....and if I feel it`s relevant to our business will say so

We were recently called about an exhibition, a very clued up person, and we bought into it

And yes time is money...use it wisely

 

[Neil Warren]

Neil, why wouldn't those of us who cold call for a living post on a subject that maybe relevant to them?

As for the subject in hand, there will always be preferences and as social networking reaches its peak that avenue may well open more doors. As long as there is a telephone then I personally feel cold calling will still be alive and kicking. If the trend goes towards networking sites even more then cold calling will become that bit more challenging.

Exactly Shay, you absolutely should. But, if not you specifically, then certainly some others were very careful to include links, mentions, nudges, warm-ups, pitches even, to highlight how good they were in the cold-calling and telemarketing scenario - in other words using networks and postings to substitute for cold-calling on behalf of their own business. Thereby demonstrating that, if not RIP exactly, nonetheless a mix of sales and marketing activity was always in evidence and is increasing, and sensible in this specific comparison between the telephone and the "social" networks.

The other points by Steve & Jez about cold/tepid calling and trusting them, liking them, doing good business as a result, and comparing that to netowrking are equally valid. Personally I think that probably 99% of the business I have sold to date (probably 5,000+ deals varying between £5 and £80,000) selling a mix of media from classified ad slots to annual display ad contracts, recruitment ads, exhibition stand space, mailing lists and now online advertising/sponsorship have included a cold/tepid call in there somewhere. And I've had the whole spectrum of replies from a complete stranger saying "wow, thank heavens you called", through to the "don't take cold calls" or "we've been stung before" stuff referred to. But I don't think my unhappy clients are more than 1%.

As I said in my post above though, I have noticed a significant shift in recent years to clients requiring email addresses for broadcasting (and when I say significant I mean 0% in the 1990's, 20% 2000-5, 80% 2005-2008) either exclusively or as part of a marketing mix. I myself also now use email, one to one or as broadcasts, in similar proportions but I'd now say I expect email exchanges to be part of every deal I do and, as the coming thing being referred to here, I met the original poster, Ian at WeCanDo.Biz, I think in here, but certainly in a forum (albeit that I had a record card for his Entelegen set up and he'd responded to one cold-call there a couple of years ago), and I think we're going to be doing a significant amount of business together over the years ahead.

So, as others are now saying, I think it's all a question of finding the right mix. Face to face (had to have been the first), direct mail, (can't see the telegram making a comeback), exhibitions, telemarketing, email, and networks (I think I prefer "business" to "social" - but my SEO guru is telling me I have to look at the Facebook/MySpace stuff) Second Life even for us sales folk (anyone else read Snow Crash by Neal Stephenson?) - and our marketing and advertising friends hammering away at print, radio, TV and online. It's a market economy so, as a consumer, you have to expect some market noise.

Luvverly bunch of 'nanas, only a pand!

 

[amber08]

Hey BIG well done for a catchy title.
Most emails end up deleted but this one from the forums caught my eye because of the title.
I will keep it brief as need to finish reading all your responses there is loads!!
Personally
Cold calling takes: Commitment...thick skin...positive attitude...stamina...time...lots of walking and the ability to sell snow to the eskimos
Additionally not everyone is good at it or more importantly not everyone enjoys it!
For my work I use all methods and sometimes lean towards one more than the other and if I am truly honest that is based on: weather...funds...results...possibly wrong order
Once again top post well done

 

[IanB]

...I will say spin-selling does apply in cold-calling, in fact of one the spin-selling methods relates solely to cold-calling
and using this approach/method has helped gain a major client

Just an aside - which SPIN selling method relates soley to cold calling? I'd be really interested to know as I don't recall it from Rackham/Huthwaite's books.

Thanks,

Ian

 

[Masterfulmatt]

Looks to me as though "this piece" is no more than an "advertising feature" for your site. But as I looked at your site and keying in "Kitchen" in "London" and it fails to find one profile, seems to be more anti-social networking

Enough said!

 

[6consulting]

Looks to me as though "this piece" is no more than an "advertising feature" for your site. But as I looked at your site and keying in "Kitchen" in "London" and it fails to find one profile, seems to be more anti-social networking

Enough said!

Which site are you looking/talking about?

 

[Masterfulmatt]

www.wecando.biz

 

[wecandobiz]

Looks to me as though "this piece" is no more than an "advertising feature" for your site. But as I looked at your site and keying in "Kitchen" in "London" and it fails to find one profile, seems to be more anti-social networking

Enough said!

Matt, I am delighted you think it reads so pro us, as it was written by a member of our site, not us; nor was anyone paid or otherwise incentivised to do it. Clearly we have some fans and I am pleased they are willing to crow about it. That is what makes referral marketing so powerful.

You are correct in that we have no one who has anything to do with kitchens in London. If this is what you do then perhaps there is an opportunity for you. That said, we are mainly a B2B service rather than aiming at consumers and the domestic market.

Go here, http://www.wecando.biz/directory.php, and you'll see where we are best covered. We are adding around 20 new businesses a day. And they are doing business with each other. As neat a soundbite as "anti-social networking" seems, it couldn't be further from the truth!

Finally, I should clarify that although the author of the "RIP cold calling" piece did use our site with pleasing results, he also gained leads and business contacts during his experiment through Twitter, blogs and forums. We can't take credit for it all!

Happy to answer any questions.

IH

 

[joshc]

From a personal point of view, cold calling has its place if managed correctly. Like previous posters have said there is no point randomly phoning/mailing people who have no interest in your business, or belong to TPS!

Cold calling can be hard work and we help to take the strain with custom listings.

I also agree that there is a place for social networking, but again this can be hard work and time consuming. We have been to lots of networking events, which can be very successful and generate new business leads, but you can also end up talking to time wasters.

If you have the correct information and people who know what they are talking about and how to talk about it, cold calling can be very successful!

 

[michelle_han]

B2B cold calling works because people do not mind so much talking to salespeople on company time. Plus, it does feel important to get that call...I used to do cold calling, and you could tell some people would just talk to us just because they wanted to hear a different voice...

 

[lupton]

Hi
I have tried networking however as the business gets bigger, time is always of an issue and some mornings/ evenings it is not always possbile to go networking.

However the telesales can be done at any time!

 

[wecandobiz]

Hi
I have tried networking however as the business gets bigger, time is always of an issue and some mornings/ evenings it is not always possbile to go networking.

However the telesales can be done at any time!

Telesales can only be done during the business day if you are B2B. Online networking can be done at any time. The WeCanDo.BIZ website is open 24 hours a day!

IH

 

[Minerva Business Systems]

We are looking to build up our client base and so are looking into the option of cold calling. I am more than happy to do the calls myself, but it is issues prior to this I am enquiring about.

Where am I best to gain a list of contacts, should we purchase this from a company or simply use phone directories? We offer an online personnel and reporting system used to cut down on HR admin for holidays absence etc. and so as long as a company has employees we are not really aiming at a particular market.

Also, who should I be asking for when I call. I have found previously that the HR staff or those who deal with the personnel are most interested in the product, but they do not have the say financially. It isn't an expensive product as it is charged monthly, but should I be aiming for the management before the HR?

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[wecandobiz]

We are looking to build up our client base and so are looking into the option of cold calling. I am more than happy to do the calls myself, but it is issues prior to this I am enquiring about.

Where am I best to gain a list of contacts, should we purchase this from a company or simply use phone directories? We offer an online personnel and reporting system used to cut down on HR admin for holidays absence etc. and so as long as a company has employees we are not really aiming at a particular market.

Also, who should I be asking for when I call. I have found previously that the HR staff or those who deal with the personnel are most interested in the product, but they do not have the say financially. It isn't an expensive product as it is charged monthly, but should I be aiming for the management before the HR?

Any help would be appreciated.

Ryan, I think your campaign needs a little more consideration.

A target market of any companies with employees is not a target. You need to consider in what size of an organisation managing absenteeism, holidays becomes a real issue that the company can attach a specific cost to. If they think their current approach is costing them money, then there is an amount they would probably spend to fix it. If your solution comes within that cost then you have a target market of companies over, perhaps, a specific number of employees.

Consider also industries where it may be hard to backfill with temps, or where they may be able to easily find solutions to staff not being available, but where they are particularly vulnerable.

It seems obvious you should be heading for the HR/personnel contact in your target markets, so contact Corpdata (a contact here) and get them to do a search for named contacts. make sure it is CTPS swept and get first names too so you can ask for people specifically - this will increase your contact rates.

Do your prep up front and you'll massively improve your chances of success. Make it hit and miss and your chances of results will be the same.

IH

 

[Minerva Business Systems]

Hi Ian,

Thanks for the advice. I wanted to make sure we were going in the correct direction before we started this, but obviously need to look into it more.

I was a bit general before with our aims, our main target group is SMEs who maybe do not hold their own HR team, we have found the clients we have taken on so far are comapnies who want to save time and effort on HR admin who do not to go to the expense of taking on extra staff to control it. Usually the people who become the administrators of the system are the managers of the company or an employee with a job not mostly related to HR.

We have had interest from companies who have HR departments, but not really as much as smaller companies.

 

[wecandobiz]

Hi Ian,

Thanks for the advice. I wanted to make sure we were going in the correct direction before we started this, but obviously need to look into it more.

I was a bit general before with our aims, our main target group is SMEs who maybe do not hold their own HR team, we have found the clients we have taken on so far are comapnies who want to save time and effort on HR admin who do not to go to the expense of taking on extra staff to control it. Usually the people who become the administrators of the system are the managers of the company or an employee with a job not mostly related to HR.

We have had interest from companies who have HR departments, but not really as much as smaller companies.

Ryan, that's useful information. You can still get a senior HR decision maker from Corpdata in smaller companies, but they'll route you through to the director who gets lumped with the task, so it is well worth researching with them. Although it is SMEs you'll need to define your minimum staff number and also top it out with a maximum, beyond which you'd expect them to have an HR person doing this.

They'll have a stack of SME businesses listed, so its worth also filtering them by geography (postcodes or distance from you) or industry.

Feel welcome to come and list yourself on WeCanDo.BIZ too in order to catch anyone looking for HR solutions there.

I hope this helps.

IH

 

[Neil Warren]

Another data skill you might consider then, Ryan, is profiling.

Talk to Corpdata, for example, and ask if they can take in your existing clients company and contact names, match them up to the whole database, and then tell you what the statistical profile of your existing clients is, in terms of total of employees, industry, geographical location, turnover, contact name job title/function even. Then they can tell you how many more companies they have that fit that bill - which you will know are "perfect" prospects for you.

You might even end up having conversations with companies that are sister companies in a bigger group, competitors and the like with your existing clients, giving you a lot more ways to compare the benefits.

 

[Minerva Business Systems]

Thanks again Ian.

I will look into adding ourselves on your site.

 

[JElder]

Also for Ryan...

If you are considering just using the phone book, remember the Corporate TPS regulations. You may not call any business number that is listed on them.

If you buy a data list (Try http://marketingfile.com for small volumes), it is generally screened for CTPS at the time you buy it. If you build a list yourself, you need to check against TPS some other way. There are bureau services, or even premium rate numbers that can provide this service.

You need to re-screen all the numbers you are still calling every 28 days to allow for new additions. However, if you have had a request from a decision maker to call, then this over-rides the TPS regulation, so you can call.

Note, however, there are very few TPS prosecutions, and as far as I am aware these have all been for high volume consumer calls where the call centres deliberately ignored TPS regulations to get better outcomes.

 

I just wanted to say what an interesting debate this was - so much so that UKBF sister site BusinessZone.co.uk has published an article highlighting some of the key points made by members in this thread and in another looking at how to get past the gatekeepers.
http://www.businesszone.co.uk/cgi-bin/item.cgi?id=189655&d=1095&h=1097&f=1096
So thanks for all your comments.

 

read and added a post of my own!

 

[6consulting]

It's been a little while since I checked out this thread and I am pleased that the debate around my original article 'RIP Cold Calling' continues. Cold calling has certainly proved to be an emotive subject!

Of even more interest is the recent survey conducted by UKBF and WeCanDo.BIZ that would appear to validate in part my hypothesis.

Since the article we have continued to build our Non Cold Calling sales model and continued to benchmark and test against cold calling methods. We will be blogging about this over the coming weeks on our site www.socialmediamonitoring.co.uk.

 

[6consulting]

It may be of interest to readers a blog post on our site talking of the Social Media Sales Funnel http://www.socialmediamonitoring.co.uk/2008/10/the-social-media-sales-funnel/ comments and debate welcome.

 

[DanMartin]

Of even more interest is the recent survey conducted by UKBF and WeCanDo.BIZ that would appear to validate in part my hypothesis.

For those of you that haven't yet seen them, the survey results are available here.

 

[igloorpo]

I think we're a long way off losing cold-calling in the B2B marketplace. Although I do think that already companies have had to smarten up their acts in order to experience success from cold-calling. Gone are the days when one could pick up the Yellow Pages and work through it with a one-size-fits-all script! However, when cold-calling is well-researched, properly targeted, relevant and carried out by a credible individual, there is still, and will be for some time, room for it as a key part of the mix in generating new sales and leads.

Hi all

I have been working with Matthew Brazil, director of 6Consulting and a former sales director at SCI Sales, on a piece he has written for Modernselling.com.

ARE SOCIAL NETWORKS THE LAST NAIL IN THE COFFIN FOR COLD CALLING?

"Cold calling has been served notice, a new era beckons and with it an altogether different way of working. Social networking has arrived and will soon replace cold calling as the predominant method of prospecting in business" - read the rest at http://www.modernselling.com/sales-expert-comment/social-networking-in-sales.aspx (apologies mods for posting to an external site).

A warning - Matthew gives WeCanDo.BIZ a flattering comparison to cold calling. He also gives an interesting insight to picking up useful relationships through social networking, forums, blogging and micro-blogging. Matthew's interest is B2B, but his findings stack up more for B2C if anything, where the spread of TPS and Facebook are likely to seal the fate of cold calling much faster.

Few may know that my other company is a lead generation company which cold calls for software companies to arrange meetings for them - I don't get it all my way in this piece! It also gives me something to think about in terms of the services I recommend to clients in the future.

Matthew's findings are interesting and I'd be really interested to hear others' views on the future of cold calling.

IH

 

[Yourlocaltrades]

Cold calling is alive and kicking!
Only 2 weeks and 8 pages of tradespeople completed, including 8 in a day, so phone sales via cold calling must still have some good legs on it.

(i did lose my job three weeks ago cold calling door to door though)

 

[Amarb]

My first post.

I have worked within in a few Telemarketing/cold calling companies in my life. These have ranged from charity calling through to B2B appointment setting/lead generation on behalf of Blue Chip techology companies.

I can further confirm; if the right person, with the right skills, finds and has a conversation with the right person, then cold calling is the most effective way to start the sales cycle. Getting all the emelments to coinside, is the challenge.

I am currently UK Business Development Manager for an appointment setting/ qualified Lead Generation company. I have no problem, call calling individuals, arranging times to meet them and then selling face-to-face.



Amar

 

[Pete Crane]

I actually did some cold calling this morning. To be honest it could have gone better, but it was mainly down to me and I think I've spotted where I could have done a better job. Hopefully I will have learned a bit and next time will be better. Onwards and upwards so to speak.

It may have been mentioned before on here but my tactic is to only draw up a small list of firms to hit at any one time; keep it all manageable and don't feel overawed by it all. Small task, get it out the way, hopefully get some actions from the people called and get them done. Build another small list and diarise when it will be called.

 

[MH1]

I still think cold calling will be in use for many years to come, it is still an effective tool for most companies.

For the people who feel surveys reflect differently, the answers you get in a survey depend on who you ask and how the question is phrased. I worked in door to door sales for many years, everyone would tell you it was a waste of time, yet on certain types of sales nothing comes anywhere near the method for producing good consistent results.