Redundancy Pay Without A Contract

[appyammer]

How much is an employee who has worked for a company for 10 years entitled to in redundancy pay? Although there has never been a written "contract of employment

 

[Employment Law Clinic]

As the calculations will depend on age as well as length of service, you should try using http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Diol1/DoItOnline/DG_4017972.

Given the poor history on getting matters in writing, you should also ensure your employer provides details in writing; this should include details of how the calculation has been done.


Karl Limpert

 

[Phil B]

Lots of variables – it depends on your age and how much you earn per week – post that here and one of the employment guys/gals will undoubtedly be able to help.

I do not have any of the figures to hand but it is something like one weeks pay for each year worked, capped at around £280? Per week – there is also an allowance for notice period?

If you are looking for life changing pay out then think again. Sorry.

 

[Employment Law Clinic]

I do not have any of the figures to hand but it is something like one weeks pay for each year worked, capped at around £280? Per week – there is also an allowance for notice period?

Now capped at £350 per week, due to increase to £380 next month.

 

[appyammer]

So although there is no written contract of employment and the reason for redundancy/layoff is lack of work, redundancy is the same if there were a contract of employment in writing

 

[Employment Law Clinic]

So although there is no written contract of employment and the reason for redundancy/layoff is lack of work, redundancy is the same if there were a contract of employment in writing

Yes, the contract exists even if not in writing; redundancy is a fair reason for dismissal, but with 2+ years service, you're entitled to compensation.

 

[UKSBD]

I think redundancy is one of the most ridicullous regulations going.

Was talking to a bricklayer the other day who had 3 other bricklayers
who had been working with him for the past 7 or 8 years.
Officially, he was employing them but it was more like a team really.

As we all know the building had been dead for the past 6 months, so he
was paying them out of his own money for about 3 months hoping things
would pick up, they didn't so he had to shut down.

He know faces a £10,000 redundancy bill at the worst possible time

I imagine a lot of small businesses are in a similar situation, have got staff
who aren't covering their wages, but can't afford to let them go.

Surely a far better sysyem is a % of wage goes in to a fund to cover for
redundancy, would also be fairer on people who leave of their own
accord too.

 

[LimeHR]

There is help available for employers who cannot meet the redundancy payments. http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/guidan...ayments/helpforemployers/helpforemployers.htm

 

[UKSBD]

All well and good for businesses that are insolvent.
What about the small businesses who have small reserves, maybe just
enough to pay themselves enough to live on over the next few months
whilst hoping things will pick up?

All those reserves go out in redundancy, effectively sending the struggling
business under.

It must be like being between a rock and a hard stone.

keep the staff on and use up all the companies reserves because they're
not earning for the company what they are bein paid.
Or make the staff redundant and use up all the company reserves in
redundancy pay.

Glad I don't employ anybody

 

[LimeHR]

Although the link is to the Insolvency service the message is for businesses who are NOT insolvent but cannot afford the payments and who can provide:

documentary evidence that you lack the funds to make the statutory redundancy payments;
it is clear that providing help will save a significant number of jobs;
the help will secure the solvency of the business for the foreseeable future;
clearly shown that you will be able to repay the money within an agreed period of time.
You need to read the links you know

 

[UKSBD]

Thanks, still only really seems to apply to those on the verge of insovency
though, big businesses with lots of staff and businesses who know they
will have funds later.

If the business has say £10,000 in reserves, maybe enough for the
business to survive for a few months until things pick up, that money will
still go on redundancy first.

Ideally, the staff should have been made redundant months earlier, and
then the help would be even less likely to apply.

 

[appyammer]

Thankyou to everyone that has replied, to take this matter further:

what are the implications for employee/employer if the employee agrees to leave due to lack of work and also agrees to not ask for redundancy

 

[Employment Law Clinic]

what are the implications for employee/employer if the employee agrees to leave due to lack of work and also agrees to not ask for redundancy

Abbyammer,

This would be a strange position for the employee to adopt - they would be giving up a right to a few thousand pounds. Legally speaking, the employer should complete a consultation process, and if redundancy remains the only viable outcome, the employer should be providing the redundancy payment & the calculations of this at the time of redundancy, without being asked or prompted.

If the employee resigns, in theory they will not have any claims against the company. However, where it could be argued that the employer didn't provide valuable & meaningful work and left the employee feeling they had no option but to resign, there could be a case of constructive dismissal. That claim could be defended if there was a redundancy process ongoing, as that would demonstrate that the employer was alert to the problems and was taking action to tackle this.


Overall though, if the employee is willing to leave without a redundancy payment, I'd assume they won't be planning to bring any claim against the employer. Let them resign before the redundancy process is complete, and all should be good.


Karl Limpert

 

[lupton]

In the contract of employment you would be advised to make sure that you have a lay off clause for if there is no work. This way you can lay them off with out pay and the staff will then be entitiled to claim benefits during the lay off period.

Check out acas website

lup

 

[Employment Law Clinic]

In the contract of employment you would be advised to make sure that you have a lay off clause for if there is no work. This way you can lay them off with out pay and the staff will then be entitiled to claim benefits during the lay off period.

This is certainly a useful thing to have in a contract, but unfortunately most employers don't think to include these (or many of the things that are legally necessary) when they initially draw up the contracts, the Business Link DIY Contracts don't include it as an option, and you can't change the contract to include this later without the employee's consent. Some employees want redundancy (normally though, with compensation), so they'd be unlikely to agree the change when thinking about a redundancy cheque instead.

 

[Phil B]

Bear in mind that if you have been laid off it is not the same as being made redundant – lay off is a short term measure to provide some flexibility for businesses when they see a temporary downturn.

[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']It starts the clock ticking in terms of when the temporary period has to result in redundancy, etc and there are other provisos but you must be clear if you are talking about being laid off.[/font]

 

[Food King]

Not posting a new thread, because the matter is most relevant to continue from this post i believe:

If the position is made redundant after consultation process( more of a drama though..) and eventually when the managment realised that the employee seems to believe it was a constructive dismissal, then they started inviting new application to fill a contract vacancy for 3 months, most similar to the position made redundant. Eventually offer to both the redundant employees to apply for it. But only 1 person applied for it and was offered the contract role for 3 months. Typically the managment issued a letter saying that the position is declared redundant on 18th Sept and contract role starts from 21st Sept ( because of a weekend in between).
Employee was not allowed 5 weeks notice period( as per the contract).
And The managment has has said they will not give the redundancy money( 5 years employment) till the end of the new job role on contract.

Employee stand is- my full time employment is made redundant( as part of cost cutting pretence), so the company should give the redundancy pay what so ever before starting the contract role for 3 months.

Companies stand is- Though the position is made redundant the employee has taken short contract role which they consider is an alternative employment, hence redundancy monies will only come at the end of contract. And they also declared that if the employee leaves within the contract period then redundancy monies will be forefieted.

Is that how it works?? Any light on the subject would be much appreciated. Thanks

 

[Food King]

Not posting a new thread, because the matter is most relevant to continue from this post i believe:

If the position is made redundant after consultation process( more of a drama though..) and eventually when the managment realised that the employee seems to believe it was a constructive dismissal, then they started inviting new applications to fill a contract vacancy for 3 months( accounts based), with most similar role to the position made redundant. Eventually offered to both the redundant employees to apply for it. But only 1 person applied for it and was offered the contract role for 3 months( the pay is less than the original regular salary).
Typically the managment issued a letter saying that the permanent position is declared redundant on 18th Sept and contract role starts from 21st Sept ( because of a weekend in between).
Where as Employee was not allowed 5 weeks notice period( as per the original contract).
And The managment has said they will not give the redundancy money at this stage, but will give only after the finish of the contract role by 3 months.
Employee stand is- my full time employment is made redundant( as part of cost cutting pretence out of 200 employees), so the company should give the redundancy pay what so ever before starting the contract role for 3 months.

Companies stand is- Though the position is made redundant the employee has taken short contract role which they consider is an alternative employment, hence redundancy monies will only come at the end of contract. And they also declared that if the employee/ contractor leaves within the contract period then redundancy monies will be forefieted.

Dont you think there is a difference between employee on a full time employment role and contractor on a contrcat role?.
Can one position switch to other with out p45 getting into picture?
If the position is offered as contract then can the employee be still on payrole?
If so would a contracted person have the same benefits as of an employee till the contact ends?

Is that how it works?? or is the company bullying the employee being a female. Any light on the subject would be much appreciated. Thanks

 

[Steve Jones2]

My wife is classed as “casual “ labour. She has worked 2days a week for 5 years. Is she entitled to redundancy pay

 

[fisicx]

My wife is classed as “casual “ labour. She has worked 2days a week for 5 years. Is she entitled to redundancy pay

What does it say in her contract?

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

This is 15 years ago I bet she is still working her notice

 

[Newchodge]

My wife is classed as “casual “ labour. She has worked 2days a week for 5 years. Is she entitled to redundancy pay

Possibly. What is thed exact wording of her contract?

 

[The Organiser]

How much is an employee who has worked for a company for 10 years entitled to in redundancy pay? Although there has never been

How much is an employee who has worked for a company for 10 years entitled to in redundancy pay? Although there has never been a written "contract of employment

Go to government website and type in redundancy calculator, sorry I cant post link on here