Redundancy - is this fair?

[Java24]

Last week I got back to work base and was asked to have a ‘chat’ I was handed a 3 letters one ‘warning of possible redundancies’ which went on to say they needed to make ‘a’ redundancy.

I was handed a scoring sheet, there are 6 people who do the same job as me, I was scored lowest out of 5, the 6th employee not on the sheet.
The categories were length of service, attendance, qualifications and skills and attitude and flexibility.

Length of service is done on a scale 1-5 points, 5 being given to 8-10 years in service, however no one has worked at the company for that length of time and the company only started in 2014 - 6 years ago?

attendance - I broke my wrist therefore unable to do my job, I had 7 days absence for this in the past 24 months, 1 day in the last 19. This was done over a 24 month period. 20 months ago the sick pay policy was changed from being paid sick absence (which covered my broken wrist and therefore I was paid for this) to not being paid and anyone off sick was able to take as annual leave. Therefore anyone in this period has benefited from the change in policy in the sense of being able to score low on absence due to fact they took annual leave to ensure being paid due to change in policy

qualifications - there are two qualifications on the sheet. One is worth 2 points, the other 10 (all other sections are rated 0-5). The reason is stated as being due to it being more value to company. I have the 2 point qualification

attitude and flexibility (0-5) I scored 0 (poor) due to my lack of flexibility to overtime and my attitude towards my colleagues.
Today I had my first consultation meeting to address this. I demonstrated with evidence I have done 210 days of overtime out of 375 working day’s and also recent examples of helping and supporting my colleagues. I also queried the attitude given everyone of my appraisal since 2017 (that’s when my first one was) has been excellent (out of excellent satisfactory, poor or unsatisfactory!) I've never had any disciplinary action or been spoken to about my conduct. The director stated throughout the meeting ‘my opinion is x, y or z’ but had put in the original letter this was all scored on objective and quantifiable data but despite asking for it has not been able to provide it as they do not have formal staff records for the things they have scored me 0 on?
Furthermore despite having a sheet with my scores and employees 1-4 scores as comparison, none of the other 4 employees have had their scores not details of a meeting. I’ve had my scores first meeting and my second consultation meeting is booked for Thursday.

I've worked for the company for over 5 years, never had a disciplinary, discussion about my conduct or attitude, complete regular overtime. I have suspected they ‘want me out’ for a while now on the basis I have brought up a number of health and safety issues for myself and colleagues so believe im being unfairly penalised for raising this, but I obviously can’t prove this. Is it reasonable to think the scoring system is potentially flawed and that I have possibly been scored poorly? The way the scoring is calculated means that someone with the 10 pointer qualification, with 20+ day’s sick and one years service scores higher than someone with 6 years service an excellent attitude and flexibility and excellent attendance?!
I’m not necessarily disputing the scoring criteria just the way I’ve been scored given it’s mainly subjective and not been able to be backed up with any documentation or facts

 

[MBE2017]

Not sure what you hope to hear, life is rarely fair, bringing complaints on H&S will keep you in their memory. It could well be they want you out, unless you can show them your worth, they might make make you redundant.

You need to ask yourself, can you prove they are not conducting the redundancies correctly, and even if you could, would you truly want to remain knowing you are not wanted?

 

[Java24]

Not sure what you hope to hear, life is rarely fair, bringing complaints on H&S will keep you in their memory. It could well be they want you out, unless you can show them your worth, they might make make you redundant.

You need to ask yourself, can you prove they are not conducting the redundancies correctly, and even if you could, would you truly want to remain knowing you are not wanted?

Thank you, I appreciate your response. Ultimately I don’t have anything in particular I want to hear, but to lose your job of 5 years in the current climate when you’ve always had positive feedback, excellent appraisals, committed to a lot of additional hours, no disciplinaries etc is a difficult pill to swallow when you don’t feel the process has been dealt with fairly and the scores not applied fairly.

appreciate everything you said but when you have a colleague who’s been there 2 years less, take 30 odd sick days and has a disciplinary on file for calling the director a d*ck And does less overtime than myself it’s difficult to comprehend how they scored higher On attitude and flexibility than I did

with regards the H&S I know it’s a divisive subject but the kind of H&S actions within my organisation could kill or seriously injure someone so although I don’t or hadn’t wanted to be that person I’m not willing to put myself and others at risk

 

[MBE2017]

Best of luck.

 

[Mr D]

Does not appear fair. However is fair an issue when deciding to get rid of the round peg that does not fit in the square hole...?

Sounds like they want rid of you. Stay by some means and it will not improve what the bosses think.

Get out while you can.

 

[Java24]

Does not appear fair. However is fair an issue when deciding to get rid of the round peg that does not fit in the square hole...?

Sounds like they want rid of you. Stay by some means and it will not improve what the bosses think.

Get out while you can.

Thank you

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

You lost your job and you walk away owing nothing
There are businesses on this forum that may not reopen again and the directors are on the verge of going bankrupt
So why would you come on to a business forum and ask this question

 

[Scottishgifts4u]

You lost your job and you walk away owing nothing
There are businesses on this forum that may not reopen again and the directors are on the verge of going bankrupt
So why would you come on to a business forum and ask this question

Wow that’s harsh even for you.

I didn’t realise this forum was specifically for struggling business owners on the verge of going bust. I’m retired now so I suppose I’d better hand in my card.

Perhaps he would like the opinion of business owners who are more liable to give an informed opinion of his situation than a bloke down the pub or Tracy from Mumsnet.

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

Wow that’s harsh even for you.

I didn’t realise this forum was specifically for struggling business owners on the verge of going bust. I’m retired now so I suppose I’d better hand in my card.

Perhaps he would like the opinion of business owners who are more liable to give an informed opinion of his situation than a bloke down the pub or Tracy from Mumsnet.

He has just had the opinion of a business owner I dont get to walk away if this all goes wrong I am liable ! No good belly aching on here

While I may come across as a bit direct you will always find that those who want to put the work and effort in will get help from me

I was born to love but the environment was harsh .
So I just tell the truth now

 

[tony84]

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/w...tests-for-unfair-dismissal-claims-redundancy/

 

[MBE2017]

If you post on a public forum you have to expect different versions of basically the same advice. I am lucky atm in the sense I had already decided to reduce my workload due to personal health and family reasons.

As such the recession is not as big a problem to myself as many others, but I get the feeling from the forum many still under estimate what is heading their way, with both the recession and Brexit bringing their own problems. The country will survive, but many firms, owners and workers will be hit badly over the next 1/10 years IMO.

I am old enough to remember multi million unemployment, house repossessions etc, many are not. It is not going to be fun for anyone. For anyone in any doubt, get those accounts paid up to date ASAP, reduce your costs, cash flow will be the biggest killer for many, CASH IS KING.

 

[Paul Carmen]

@Java24 I'm inclined to agree with Mr D on both counts, it doesn't seem strictly fair, but it does seem like they want you out, so getting out is likely to be the best option.

The key decision is how you get out, and you really need legal/specialist help to determine that. The crux of this is how hard you're prepared to fight and what you are fighting for. As an a example, if the redundancy package is generous; e.g 2 or 3 weeks full pay per years service then that might be the best scenario as you'll get a decent lump sum, if it's statutory redundancy level and 1 weeks pay per years service then it will be much lower.

Essentially, if the package is poor and crucially the redundancy criteria isn't rigorous and objective, you'd have to tell them why the criteria is poor as part of the consultation process and should put this in writing to them. They should know this at the consultation stage, so they can do something about it, if you're likely to take it further.

We can't be sure that this is unfair or fair, the actual rigour of the scoring detail (which we can't see) is what will determine this. To be clear, you will have to be prepared to take this all the way to a tribunal (https://www.gov.uk/employment-tribunals) and attempt to claim a "protective award" if you feel this hasn't been conducted properly, which is quite a complicated process and involves a tribunal hearing. If you're not prepared to do this, then you can't really fight it.

You might be lucky and they may be prepared to negotiate; e.g. if they are worried they'd lose at a tribunal, they might be prepared to pay you off by offering you some sort of compromise agreement. Again, if this is financially worth your while you probably should take it, but its worth getting advice on that, as it may have tax/benefits implications etc.

You are going to have to dig deep into the the objectivity and rigour of the selection process; there are quite a few guides online, plus those offering specialist help. But, to cover what you've said so far, the overall selection criteria is basically OK and fairly standard, but the discrepancies and scoring are the potential issues, as it needs to be objective: -

1. Multiple people in the pot - fair. 6 people in the role, only 5 on the scoring criteria/pot, why is the 6th person missing, this does not sound correct
2. LIFO, fairly standard to have this as one of the main aspects of scoring, though it shouldn't be the only one - fair; e.g. https://redundancyaid.co.uk/redundancy-reasons-and-selection/
3. Attendance - fair. As long as this is applied consistently, if the policy/measure has changed, then they need to take this into account to be objective and rigorous
4. Qualifications - fair. As long as the two disparities in qualification scoring are reasonable; e.g. one has much more value/relevance than the other to the role, if they're similar then this might be an objectivity issue with the scoring
5. Attitude/disciplinary record - fair, again this is pretty standard stuff, but it must be rigorous; e.g. https://app.croneri.co.uk/feature-articles/redundancy-pitfalls-top-tips-employers. If this can't be backed up by the company annual appraisals, or you know other people in the pot have a worse record, but its not shown on the scorecard, then this isn't objective. The overtime also sounds odd to include, as the business should be looking at ways to avoid redundancies as their first action. Overtime in here is actually bordering on the discriminatory, as some people may not be able to do it due to personal circumstances (e.g. childcare, and this has no impact on ability to do the job, or attitude). Plus, if they still need regular overtime to complete work going forward, then they have no requirement to make any redundancies.

 

[MikeJ]

Do you actually want to continue working there? It sounds a nighmare of a place. Take the redundancy, report any further H&S issues to an appropriate body, and get on with your life.

 

[Root 66 Woodshop]

Unfortunately, Life isn't fair... far from it... as @MikeJ has said, take the redundancy and move on... sounds like you'll be better off TBH.