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GreatSEO
- Original Poster
- #42
Estwig always nails it and I love the fact that the OP has taken what has been said in the wrong light.
At the end of the day as I will re-iterate there are probably millions of people out there worse off and to be honest some of us on here could be worse off especially the pre start up businesses.
I only have 2 words - Wise Up
Dave
At the end of the day as I will re-iterate there are probably millions of people out there worse off and to be honest some of us on here could be worse off especially the pre start up businesses.
I only have 2 words - Wise Up
Dave
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garytulley
- Original Poster
- #43
If you want a decent paying job then you need to go out and get one, sitting there thinking about how much your friends are being paid isn't going to get you anywhere.
If you want to earn more money find something that you can do and study hard at it. Eventually after a few years you'll get a decent paying job if you put in the hard work but if you expect to just walk into a job and get £100 a day with no qualifications you wont get very far.
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Johnny33
- Original Poster
- #44
What is ur peoples problem not everyone can be a businssman like u. Is this forum just for businessmen? i am not that young i will be almost 20 and this is not my first but on my first job i was working for family and they didnt treat me like crap but paid me less money that is why i work as a laborer now. how am i supposed to become a java developer when they want a degree they not even gonna look at me without a degree...
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garytulley
- Original Poster
- #45
I'm not a business person, I work for a web development company and I'm earning less then you as a website tester, £20 a day (part time) but I manage to get up, walk 20 mins to work do what I got to do and go home without complaining.
If I wanted to could go to college, learn php and database development and earn around £15 an hour. Sure it'll take me 2 or 3 years to get to that point but I know I wont get it unless I put the effort in to learn it.
I got £40 a day when I was doing labouring, the fact you're getting £70 a day at the age of 20 is impressive and you should be proud, not complaining that it is not enough.
You've heard of the property ladder right? Well this is the job ladder, you're at the bottom where everyone else starts, now climb up.
If I wanted to could go to college, learn php and database development and earn around £15 an hour. Sure it'll take me 2 or 3 years to get to that point but I know I wont get it unless I put the effort in to learn it.
I got £40 a day when I was doing labouring, the fact you're getting £70 a day at the age of 20 is impressive and you should be proud, not complaining that it is not enough.
You've heard of the property ladder right? Well this is the job ladder, you're at the bottom where everyone else starts, now climb up.
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Yes actually - it is called the UK BUSINESS forums....
£70 a day for labouring is a good wage - go and get a degree to be a Java developer, thats what your friend must have done, however not ALL developers have a degree - I know one very highly paid developer who earns £300 - £500 a DAY who does not have a degree, but he has lots of learning behind him and lots of experience, AND worked as a labourer on £25 a day whilst he learned to be a developer.
And for the record - 20 is very young, and your moaning about having to walk to a pick up point, make your own sandwiches etc shows just how young you are - I used to drive 35 miles to work and 35 miles back each day, make my sandwiches, those of my two children, and run a house, I started at 8am and sometimes didn't get home until 10pm and was earning far less than £70 a day as PA (Personal assistant to a Managing Director) and this was only 6 years ago - if I had only had a 25 minute walk I would have been thrilled!
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Last time someone made my sandwiches and drove me to work, it was my Mum.
Unskilled jobs are less well paid because they are easily filled.
Working a bit extra for someone is par for the course these days as long as it doesn't get silly. You just need to clarify overtime etc without making yourself out to be a whinger. I dare say your boss would welcome reasonable feedback.
You might want to put yourself in your bosses' shoes for just a day.
He has to find work and complete it on time and within budget in a very difficult trading period. Last thing he needs is a labourer moaning that he doesn't get a lift to work or has to get up early to make sandwiches or has to put in a bit of extra time to get the job done. He'll swap you for someone who quietly gets on with the job in a heartbeat if it means one less problem to deal with in his life.
Unskilled jobs are less well paid because they are easily filled.
Working a bit extra for someone is par for the course these days as long as it doesn't get silly. You just need to clarify overtime etc without making yourself out to be a whinger. I dare say your boss would welcome reasonable feedback.
You might want to put yourself in your bosses' shoes for just a day.
He has to find work and complete it on time and within budget in a very difficult trading period. Last thing he needs is a labourer moaning that he doesn't get a lift to work or has to get up early to make sandwiches or has to put in a bit of extra time to get the job done. He'll swap you for someone who quietly gets on with the job in a heartbeat if it means one less problem to deal with in his life.
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J
jules verne
- Original Poster
- #50
Well I'm with Johnny33, why should we be expected to work unpaid, make our own way to work just to make the boss more money if he wants all that money and me to make it for him he should at least give us a lift to work and back again.
Why shouldn't I get paid as much as those in an office who just sit in front of a computer doing no hard work just because I didnt want to go to college.
If I have to make sandwiches for work why should that be in my own time. Its food I need while in the work place so making them is work as well.
Its allright for all you bosses out there who just sit and take all the money while we do all the hard work for next to nothing. You all want to try working for a living then see how you like it.
Why shouldn't I get paid as much as those in an office who just sit in front of a computer doing no hard work just because I didnt want to go to college.
If I have to make sandwiches for work why should that be in my own time. Its food I need while in the work place so making them is work as well.
Its allright for all you bosses out there who just sit and take all the money while we do all the hard work for next to nothing. You all want to try working for a living then see how you like it.
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Johnny33
- Original Poster
- #54
how dare you say i am young and unskilled when i have been working for him for 3 months and know everything about what needs to be done maybe i do the crap jobs but without me the site will be running soooooooo slow. everyone depends on me because if i dont sort out the space the carpenter or plumber or whatever will need to sort it out himself so the boss will need to pay them 120 per day for doing my job so your logic is crap.
how comes the carpenters and plumbers get 120 per day and a stupid java developer gets 125 plus bonuses. both are skilled and plumbing of a house is crucial to a mans life while java is not mandatory i am happy for them to earn more than me but not happy for someone sitting on a pc all day to get more than me this makes me angry. also how comes my boss does not even work but earns so much more. i heard when we were doing a house removal one day that he is getting paid £700 for it in a day. it was 3 of us at £70 a day which is £210 plus petrol it couldnt not have cost him more than £350 for the day so he pocketed £350 and we three got only £70 each!!!
how is this fair. i am so angry at you people i not gonna log in again
how comes the carpenters and plumbers get 120 per day and a stupid java developer gets 125 plus bonuses. both are skilled and plumbing of a house is crucial to a mans life while java is not mandatory i am happy for them to earn more than me but not happy for someone sitting on a pc all day to get more than me this makes me angry. also how comes my boss does not even work but earns so much more. i heard when we were doing a house removal one day that he is getting paid £700 for it in a day. it was 3 of us at £70 a day which is £210 plus petrol it couldnt not have cost him more than £350 for the day so he pocketed £350 and we three got only £70 each!!!
how is this fair. i am so angry at you people i not gonna log in again
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H
HFServices
- Original Poster
- #57
I miss employing labourers.........
"if I see that fooking mobile in your hand again, your sacked, I ain't your fooking Dad, I ain't your teacher and i ain't a fooking social worker and I don't give a fook if your girlfriend is really upset. Get on the end of the shovel and do it fooking quick"!!!!!!!!!!
Happy days!!!!!!!!!!
Nice to see people treat the employees with respect.
If you spoke to me like that as an employer you would find your face coming into rapid contact with the flat end of the shovel.
Wouldn't be 'Happy days' then would it.
Its people like you who the OP are complaining about, I expect you would say things like:
'Drive me home or your fooking sacked'
'Work on Sunday for free or your fooking sacked'
'I don't care if your girlfriend is giving birth, make me money or your fooking sacked'
Pathetic.
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T
TotallySport
- Original Poster
- #58
Do you really think your boss got in the position he is in, by moaning his boss didn't pick him up for work? IF you can do what your boss is doing go and do it, you don't need a degree to be a Java Developer, you need a proven track record a degree is one way of getting that, you could learn Java Programming on your own in the evening and then get a better paid job in a few years, but you have to put the work in to get there. (plenty of free resources online)
I don't really think you complaining about your job, I think you have just realised that the decisions you have made, have left you in a situation where your job/career prospects are limited and you cannot see a way to improve you earning potential and thats what your angry at.
Think about the bad decisions you have made and correct them, moaining about them will get you no simpathy on this forum, however if you want advice then most people will be happy to help. and Good Luck.
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Assuming this isn't a troll..... I thought I would point out that it's not employers who decide rates of pay, it's generally market forces, and the laws of supply & demand.
If the OP thinks he is underpaid, all he has to do is leave and find alternative employment for better pay. Simples.
Conversely, if he's overpaid, there will be a queue of people waiting to take his job once he leaves.
If the OP thinks he is underpaid, all he has to do is leave and find alternative employment for better pay. Simples.
Conversely, if he's overpaid, there will be a queue of people waiting to take his job once he leaves.
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HFServices
- Original Poster
- #61
And as for the OP:
It all depends on the value of the outcome, the plumber will add to the buildings value, the java developer will be creating something that could be worth £millions to the right people.
Are you just as upset that the guy who created youtube made millions by selling it to google or the guy who made billions by selling facebook? They sat down at a computer and eventually got paid stupid amounts.
You need to got to college or university and get qualified as a plumber, carpenter, java developer or whatever and if you complain that you don't get paid to learn these trades then now you know why they get more than you.
It all depends on the value of the outcome, the plumber will add to the buildings value, the java developer will be creating something that could be worth £millions to the right people.
Are you just as upset that the guy who created youtube made millions by selling it to google or the guy who made billions by selling facebook? They sat down at a computer and eventually got paid stupid amounts.
You need to got to college or university and get qualified as a plumber, carpenter, java developer or whatever and if you complain that you don't get paid to learn these trades then now you know why they get more than you.
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So, you are really angry that your friend can earn more than you because he worked for the qualifications - your choice mate, get your ass to college or your nose in books/computer and learn in your own time.
Your boss - costs: 3 labourers, petrol,vehicle, telephone costs, company registration costs, public and employers liability costs, accountants costs, administration costs, VAT costs, Tax costs, National insurance costs for all the employees, plus himself, THEN he has to buy materials, AND he has to live, PLUS he had to spend money in order to get the work in the first place - do you think advertising and quoting is free? Is his time free (you seem to think yours is so valuable) so you think he does all that in his sleep for free? Do you think his business relies on YOU? Believe me it doesn't, you have been there 3 months, he managed before you and he will get someone happy to earn £70 a day AFTER you too......do the math if you are capable.
Sadly people like you are one of the reaons i hate employing ungrateful people who think I do nothing - I work far longer hours, sundays, bank holidays etc and actually earn less than my office manager and i am the boss. pathetic. Hope you don't log in again, you remind me an sulky teenager, and THAT I can do without!
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Estwig is known for humour, saying what we all think in truth, and your post to be honest just shows that you have not entered into the spirit of Estwigs post...keep checking the boards, and you will find more humour like this....we are human, we abide by red tape, not live by it and are entitled to our honest opinion as fed up employers and human beings.
We like a rant too, not just spotty teenagers!
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E
Esk247
- Original Poster
- #64
You've never worked in a warehouse or for a building contractors have you
Working on Sundays is part of the territory when you work at the lower levels, you're thankful for a job, you'll work 7 days a week if required (or should do) anything to pay the bills even if you're getting some abuse off the others working with you, it's generally all banter, alpha male stuff etc. You take it with a pinch of salt.
But you eventually work your way out of it all and end up being top dog yourself. Then you're the one having cups of tea made for you.
I don't run my businesses like that but thats the way it is for others.
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HFServices
- Original Poster
- #65
You've never worked in a warehouse or for a building contractors have you
Working on Sundays is part of the territory when you work at the lower levels, you're thankful for a job, you'll work 7 days a week if required (or should do) anything to pay the bills even if you're getting some abuse off the others working with you, it's generally all banter, alpha male stuff etc. You take it with a pinch of salt.
But you eventually work your way out of it all and end up being top dog yourself. Then you're the one having cups of tea made for you.
I did a YTS in a warehouse back in the 80's (long before all this PC stuff was around) then went to work in another warehouse and have also spent time in the army as well as everything from toilet cleaner to account manager.
Its about respecting an employee as a human with a family and feelings, not about threats and abuse.
I always made it clear in an interview that there is no such thing to me as 'compulsory overtime' and if I was requested to work outside of contracted hours then I would require a higher rate of pay as this would be time I would be giving up away from my own personal life and family / friends.
And respect is earned not demanded.
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This is one of those threads that clearly de-marks employees and employers isn't it?
People still really think that employers woke up one morning and had established businesses with loads of staff and sit around all day and do nothing don't they?
The reality is that WE were the ones slaving away 7 days a week for years earning less than you guys were talking as a daily or weekly wage. So after ten years of doing that, whilst losing marriages, not seeing kids grow up, and suffering (in many cases) some serious stress issues I think we're entitled to what we have worked for.
I still work longer hours than my staff, and although I'm very lucky that I have a great bunch of folks working with me (note the terminology) I'm still the one whose head is too full of figures, niggles and concerns that keep me from relaxing at night.
To all the employees who have posted on this forum - remember this. It IS a forum for employers, so don't get your noses all out of joint when you get employers expression their opinions.
People still really think that employers woke up one morning and had established businesses with loads of staff and sit around all day and do nothing don't they?
The reality is that WE were the ones slaving away 7 days a week for years earning less than you guys were talking as a daily or weekly wage. So after ten years of doing that, whilst losing marriages, not seeing kids grow up, and suffering (in many cases) some serious stress issues I think we're entitled to what we have worked for.
I still work longer hours than my staff, and although I'm very lucky that I have a great bunch of folks working with me (note the terminology) I'm still the one whose head is too full of figures, niggles and concerns that keep me from relaxing at night.
To all the employees who have posted on this forum - remember this. It IS a forum for employers, so don't get your noses all out of joint when you get employers expression their opinions.
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Nord20
- Original Poster
- #67
To illustrate internetspaceships point, I started my business 3 months ago (well, we opened our doors three months ago - it took us well over a year to get to that point).
So far:
1. All our staff get paid, my partner and I have yet to take a penny out - we have been living off our savings, that we worked very hard for whilst still in industry to save because we knew this period would be tough.
2. We both get up at 5:30am and work through until 10:30pm, seven days a week. No holidays, no days off. The only time I take off is one hour for lunch, most of which is spend in front of the computer, answering emails, etc (and yes, now looking at this forum, mainly because you guys helped me out so much with my issue).
3. Not only do we have to manage staff (who are thankfully nothing like this guy), but also budgets, physical stock, paying bills, keeping customers happy, etc etc, you all know the deal.
Now, obviously, I do hope for a good return on my investment of time and money in the long run, but I am under no illusion that there are many many thousands of hours of hard slog required to get me there.
Your attitude is incredible - if you worked for me, well you wouldn't be for very long. You are easily replaceable, a java developer is not. You are unskilled, a java developer is not.
If you want more money show your boss you're worth it, because if you behave at work anything like you have on this forum, then quite simply: you're not worth it.
So far:
1. All our staff get paid, my partner and I have yet to take a penny out - we have been living off our savings, that we worked very hard for whilst still in industry to save because we knew this period would be tough.
2. We both get up at 5:30am and work through until 10:30pm, seven days a week. No holidays, no days off. The only time I take off is one hour for lunch, most of which is spend in front of the computer, answering emails, etc (and yes, now looking at this forum, mainly because you guys helped me out so much with my issue).
3. Not only do we have to manage staff (who are thankfully nothing like this guy), but also budgets, physical stock, paying bills, keeping customers happy, etc etc, you all know the deal.
Now, obviously, I do hope for a good return on my investment of time and money in the long run, but I am under no illusion that there are many many thousands of hours of hard slog required to get me there.
Your attitude is incredible - if you worked for me, well you wouldn't be for very long. You are easily replaceable, a java developer is not. You are unskilled, a java developer is not.
If you want more money show your boss you're worth it, because if you behave at work anything like you have on this forum, then quite simply: you're not worth it.
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Wow, the OP has a serious case of "the world owes me a living".
Whats with all this crap about my boss earns more than me - of course he does, if he didnt he'd be a labourer like you. Its a privelidge that comes with hard work and a more important position in the business.
You really need to man up and get a grip, your wage is actually very good, even if you worked 10 hours solidly its a good wage for labouring which is an unskilled job.
There will always be inequalities in life but unless YOU do something to change your situation and progress your life to where you want to be then you have no reason to moan.
P.S - I hate making sandwiches too, i hate working 7 days a week during the winter (never seeing my wife, daughter or daylight!) and i hate my 35000 miles of commuting to and from my office - but its life so i put up with it!
Whats with all this crap about my boss earns more than me - of course he does, if he didnt he'd be a labourer like you. Its a privelidge that comes with hard work and a more important position in the business.
You really need to man up and get a grip, your wage is actually very good, even if you worked 10 hours solidly its a good wage for labouring which is an unskilled job.
There will always be inequalities in life but unless YOU do something to change your situation and progress your life to where you want to be then you have no reason to moan.
P.S - I hate making sandwiches too, i hate working 7 days a week during the winter (never seeing my wife, daughter or daylight!) and i hate my 35000 miles of commuting to and from my office - but its life so i put up with it!
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You are representative of everything thats has gone wrong with young people today. In that you feel you are owed a living. That you don't have to graft, study and learn, that you are entitled to a short-cut to everything good life. To be blunt, you're letting down every fellow young hard working person who is trying to get on in life, there must be 1000 kids out there that would give there right arm for £70 a day labouring, thank god you're not working for me.
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What about all the Interns who study hard for their degrees then work for free for 6 months?
What about apprentices on £2.50 per week trying to improve the qualifications that they got from school even though they probably already got 5 A-C grades GSCE or the 85% of plumbing apprentices that cannot complete their course through lack of work placements?
(ok, I need to step away from the keyboard now)
... ps If anyone ever sees my son posting stuff like this on the internet in a few years time, please send him to me for a clip round the ear
What about apprentices on £2.50 per week trying to improve the qualifications that they got from school even though they probably already got 5 A-C grades GSCE or the 85% of plumbing apprentices that cannot complete their course through lack of work placements?
(ok, I need to step away from the keyboard now)
... ps If anyone ever sees my son posting stuff like this on the internet in a few years time, please send him to me for a clip round the ear
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Come on Johnny, really?
What the f*ck?
This is the worst sh*t I've heard in a long time!
The plumber turns to the carpenter and says "we're F*cked!, we can't work today"
Carpenter - "why?"
Plumber - "the labourer hasn't got time to his make buttys so he stamped his foot and headed for his trailer, he's not coming out. We all depend on him otherwise this movie cannot be made"
Get real Johnny, film stars get film star wages, you dont! your a fookin labourer!!!!!
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R
Remote Resources
- Original Poster
- #78
That's good money for a labourer. Before my husband managed to get a job out of university, he laboured for £30 a day and that was hard, hard work.
I know plenty of businesses in this industry well and I will bet you are paid cash in hand. That means you are on AROUND £24K per annum if you work a five day week. Considerably more if you work 6 or seven days. That's a very high wage for what you do.
If you want to earn as much as a Java Developer, get thee to university, pay £3.5k a year in fees for 3/4 years and then come back and complain about your lot!
I know plenty of businesses in this industry well and I will bet you are paid cash in hand. That means you are on AROUND £24K per annum if you work a five day week. Considerably more if you work 6 or seven days. That's a very high wage for what you do.
If you want to earn as much as a Java Developer, get thee to university, pay £3.5k a year in fees for 3/4 years and then come back and complain about your lot!
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