Postcoding

[Delta-SI]

In fact I'll take one too for while I'm waiting for the MG to be fixed.

 

[FE]

And if one of those people decides they want to allow free access for address lookups... great!

Ling they do not offer or allow free access for you to obtain address lookups and to be used commercially do they

Remember your original post i.e. you wrote tis

I was talking about scraping various demographic info from postcodes. I can do that, with agreement of the site that provides the demographic info.

Postcode lookups (to view the address or address combinations) can be expensive... the software and user licences can be a fortune. The trick is to find a website offering them for free (because they sell a different core service) and to make a request when ever you need one. This is feasible if you don't need many. If you need millions, you would take the site down. But one every minute or two will be completely unnoticed.

There are badly coded websites that record your lookup when the result page is displayed, rather than when the request for the query is made... so... as long as you go in and grab the result rather than displaying the results page, you can make as many as you like.

Obviously can't say where to find this, but there are many companies "offering" this data which they have protected rather badly.

As you say

postcode lookups can be expensive
Software and user licences can be a fortune
But one every minute or two will be completely unnoticed

The service by these websites such as Royal Mail are for personal searches not a business who use for commercial reasons because then you need a user license

They are your words but then you state its all free which goes back to the point why do you want to be unnoticed and why you can not share with everyone where we can all enjoy as if its all 100% fine and free then nothing would be shut down would it?

All very bizzare as you constantly contradict yourself

 

[FE]

Hope this post is much more on topic, Moderator.

FE, on your website you offer downloads, one of these being the London Tube Map

Here is your download:

Not only do you blatantly "steal" if from the BBC (see the url on "your" PDF) but the map itself is copyright Transport for London.

I wonder if you have the appropriate permissions for this?

Just wondering, as you are SO concerned about MY ethics... I will be asking 2 questions about this, soon...

Yes we have full permission from Transport for London to display and offer as a free download nd is not being used commercially. The downloads are for our users visiting our website and are in the public domain.

I am 100% comfortable with that and the rest of the site

If you do find anything that may have been missed please let us know and will ensure we do have the correct agreement and if not will purchase immedietly or write a letter of apology to the relebvant company and remove with immediete effect.

Please continue to enjoy our downloads section

 

[FE]

Hey FE I'll take two of those cheap '08 Golfs.

I've read your T&C's and there's nothing to prohibit my accepting your offer. Yours is not an invitation to treat - it's an offer capable of being accepted.

Better not welch on our deal as I'm an internet tuff guy too http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Internet_tough_guy

Recognise any stereotypes there?

btw Ling congrat you made front page of Accountingweb's weekly magazine. You won your bet, and your tenner's in the post.

Would not welch and i am confident you will not. Please issue ful details and will raise the contracts and issue the address to send your deposit

Hope you do not welch on the deal as would not want to upset a ''tough guy'' would i

Look forward to hearing from you and recieving your payment

 

[Wild Goose]

Oops Duck Ling - mods coming out of the sun at you. Expect more.

I'll tag you....TAG

FE I have a serious question for you to try and unblock the cerebral empasse.

I have a disk from my cuz containing every phone number listed, ex-d or not. No, no she didn't find it on the back seat of a taxi outside the MOD- she works for - well a large phone company.

If I want to access this information should I instead telephone a pay service directory enquiry. What would you advise please? Should I use my disk or phone and pay for the information?

 

[FE]

Oops Duck Ling - mods coming out of the sun at you. Expect more.

I'll tag you....TAG

FE I have a serious question for you to try and unblock the cerebral empasse.

I have a disk from my cuz containing every phone number listed, ex-d or not. No, no she didn't find it on the back seat of a taxi outside the MOD- she works for - well a large phone company.

If I want to access this information should I instead telephone a pay service directory enquiry. What would you advise please? Should I use my disk or phone and pay for the information?

My answer would be:

If someone had declared their status and entered a contract to be ex-directory and you gain this information without the knowledge of the company holding that data i.e. a member of staff who has not gained authorisation to pass to a third party then i would not use.

If you use or not would come down to your personal and company ethics

Hope that answers your question

 

[Delta-SI]

How about the ethics of me infiltrating the office of a large defence contractor and leaving my business card on the desk of the director and then taking all their confidential waste sacks and leaving, then calling the director up to tell him how shoddy his security is? Ethical?

 

[FE]

Heheheh, really?

In that case please just confirm you have permission to use the material taken from the BBC site.

It's just that the BBC say: "You may not copy, reproduce, republish, disassemble, decompile, reverse engineer, download, post, broadcast, transmit, make available to the public, or otherwise use bbc.co.uk content in any way except for your own personal, non-commercial use."

...as you kind of left the BBC url on by mistake... oooops.

Its not BBC content its Transport for London who hold the copyright. We have also left references of where the data originates and are out in the open about it. We have permission from Transport for London to display and issue free of charge.

Unsure as how that compares with covertly taking data that requires a licence ageement?

Again very bizzare Ling you wish to compare a Tube map that we have permission from the owner to display with your actions of taking data where you do not have permission and using for commercial benefit?

 

[FE]

How about the ethics of me infiltrating the office of a large defence contractor and leaving my business card on the desk of the director and then taking all their confidential waste sacks and leaving, then calling the director up to tell him how shoddy his security is? Ethical?

You would need to define infiltrating - is this where you have been employed to do such a task on behald of that company to check security

Or

Is it where you are breaking and entering a cmpany without their knowledge or instruction to try and promote your business

Quite a difference

Still will try and answer your questions as you contnue to try and justify what Ling is doing even though she knows it do be wrong buy her own admission in her first post

 

[Delta-SI]

Is it where you are breaking and entering a cmpany without their knowledge or instruction

Still will try and answer your questions as you contnue to try and justify what Ling is doing even though she knows it do be wrong buy her own admission in her first post

That's the one, although it wasn't to promote my business, I don't do that..

I'm not trying to justify anything, I was just here for the free ethics advice.

 

[FE]

That's the one, although it wasn't to promote my business, I don't do that..

I'm not trying to justify anything, I was just here for the free ethics advice.

So you are saying you knowingly break in to a company, go through their waste and highlight where they have security issues and then do not offer to promote your business to resolve these issues.

I would say in my opinion that would be illegal. If your ethics dictate that you and your business conduct such activities in terms of breaking the law then so be it. I personally look down on that but that is my opinion which i am entitled to have in the UK.

If the Police or the company you have broken into share that view and catch you doing such a thing i would suggest they would prosecute you

That sort of ethical advice is what i teach my children and part of being a responsible adult in my opinion but everyone is different about right and wrong and why we have a legal system for this scenario

 

[Delta-SI]

Nope not breaking in, infiltrating but this is an aside from the thread at hand.

(BTW the above was all perfectly legal)

 

[FE]

Now I see my problem, I need free ethnics advice.

Ethics are a personal thing. Stealing, copyright issues etc are a legal / litigation issue

The practice you have adopted in using the postcode data for commercial use, knowingly, deliberately and covertly avoiding licence agreements (by your own admission and seem proud of it) is a legal / litigation issue

Post this being brought to your attention (although you knew it already) comes down to ethics that you continue this practice until prevented is your choice and personal.

Myself is that i and the company take best endeavours to ensure we do not infringe copyright or licence agreements. If in fact unknowingly it is brought to our attention that in fact we have we would investigate immediately, seek confirmation and resolve the issue by either ceasing or paying for the relevant contracts for continuation.

The above are the ethics i have installed which you may wish to disagree with but was under the impression they were standard and a given in the UK for those who wish to conduct business legally and ethically. Obviously not all do but then again not all shout from the roof tops that they don't run a business in such a fashion. It is up to the consumer to choose if they wish to deal with a company of that ilk.

 

[FE]

Nope not breaking in, infiltrating but this is an aside from the thread at hand.

(BTW the above was all perfectly legal)

Apologies then as i did say breaking in which you confirmed which is why i asked for a definition of infiltrating in that industry.

My very limited knowledge was that by breakig in without consent was illegal. If Infiltrating without consent is different and in fact perfectly legal i do stand corrected and apologise for my miss-understanding of the terminology

 

[FireFleur]

Golly, everyone is in here not looking at my Digital Camera post

http://www.royalmail.com/portal/rm/content1?mediaId=56000706&catId=400085

Those are the license agreements, if someone is using the data from the Royal Mail that breaks those licence agreements then it is not allowed.

But of course, anyone can compile a list of postcodes, as long as they don't take from that database in a way that breaks the licence agreement.

 

[FE]

Golly, everyone is in here not looking at my Digital Camera post

http://www.royalmail.com/portal/rm/content1?mediaId=56000706&catId=400085

Those are the license agreements, if someone is using the data from the Royal Mail that breaks those licence agreements then it is not allowed.

But of course, anyone can compile a list of postcodes, as long as they don't take from that database in a way that breaks the licence agreement.

I know its certainly been an epic and will go have a look at your digital camera post

Thanks for the clarification on the license agreeent though