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PMQs - I am so enjoying this!

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The Byre


We've had 'Partygate' one, followed now by Partygates two and three. Then there is all that fuss about who paid for some absurdly vulgar gold-coloured wallpaper. Prior to that, this prime minister has not at any point actually told the truth about anything - the triple lock, the freeze on tax rates and national insurance and of course "There will be no border in the Irish Sea!" and a free trade agreement with the EU - all of which "Fly forgotten as a dream flees at the break of day."

If the Conservative backbenchers know what's good for them, they'll be rushing to get their letters of 'Loss of Confidence' to the chair of the 1922 committee.

But given the entertainment value of having Billy Bunter as prime minister and the fact that he is the best recruiting sergeant for the break-up of the UK, I hope he clings to power by the skin of his teeth.

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On a serious note - just for a moment - I do strongly believe that we should always move towards something rather than away from something (having explored the limits of the former).

In this case, it's extremely hard to see what we can move towards, since nobody in their right mind would want the job. by inversion, this also implies that Boris is in fact ideally suited
 
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Mark T Jones said:
On a serious note - just for a moment - I do strongly believe that we should always move towards something rather than away from something (having explored the limits of the former).

In this case, it's extremely hard to see what we can move towards, since nobody in their right mind would want the job. by inversion, this also implies that Boris is in fact ideally suited
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Good point. Plus, none of the potential contenders, assuming they are of sound mind (an assumption that may not be borne out by the facts), would want the job now. Local elections in May are likely to result in major issues for the Conservative party and the leader at that point will be the one primarily blamed. Other matters are proving difficult (inflation, Covid 19 response, certain current legal cases, including todays). Far better to wait in the wings until after the local elections and the introduction of 1.25% tax increase on the vast majority of employees and employers in April. Then get rid of Johnson and come in to 'save the day'. The problem with that is that he may not be able to hang on that long.

On a separate note, is anyone else surprised that the evidence that civil servants in Downing Street see the consumption of large amounts of alcohol at work as the norm and no-one has even commented on it?
 
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Blair got a knighthood for lying. Maybe that’s his plan.

But as suggested, who is the alternative? Not even sure Labour would be much better.
 
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Mark T Jones said:
On a serious note - just for a moment - I do strongly believe that we should always move towards something rather than away from something (having explored the limits of the former).
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Yes! We are moving towards Northern Ireland joining the RoI and an independent Scotland, which will then make life difficult for any Westminster PM by joining the EU.

The Westminster political machine has been failing since the War. It started disastrously and got progressively worse by degrees. It has now reached the bottom of the barrel.
Mark T Jones said:
nobody in their right mind would want the job. by inversion, this also implies that Boris is in fact ideally suited
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That is an interesting philosophical view - the worst person in the worst job.

Or as Rene Descartes might have put it "Non cognito, ergo stultus facio."

Kant stated that if a person has no freedom of choice (as you imply is the case for any current PM) then anything they do can have no moral worth. We must therefore deduct that every human being is endowed with a conscience that makes them aware that moral laws have authority over them.

If that is what you mean by 'The Johnson Inversion' then the prime minister has certainly proven that argument to my full satisfaction!
 
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Newchodge said:
On a separate note, is anyone else surprised that the evidence that civil servants in Downing Street see the consumption of large amounts of alcohol at work as the norm and no-one has even commented on it?
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Now we know why government is in such a mess.
 
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With all these revelations I am reminded of the scene in Crocodile Dundee, "You call that a knife".

You call that a business meeting.

150,000 dead and you call it a triumph.
 
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Newchodge said:
On a separate note, is anyone else surprised that the evidence that civil servants in Downing Street see the consumption of large amounts of alcohol at work as the norm and no-one has even commented on it?
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I heard someone on TV pre xmas stating it was civil service policy that there should be no drinking during office hours (it was when the wine in the garden event was in the news)

If that is the case then it makes it very hard to argue a bring your own booze event was work as that would contradict that policy. But I have no idea where or even whether that kind of policy info is published anywhere
 
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Just seen the news about Prince Andrew. Boris has been overtaken as the man with the worst day in the country.
 
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atmosbob said:
Just seen the news about Prince Andrew. Boris has been overtaken as the man with the worst day in the country.
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A tad convenient..perhaps?

This all depends on whether the 'higher ups' want rid of Boris or not.

Two options:

A) They want rid of him and things are going to keep getting worse until he quits.
B) They're allowing a pile on for now, get it out of the way, then he's in the clear

There's always a plan. Even if it looks like this is all unplanned. Just watch...
 
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thetiger2015 said:
A tad convenient..perhaps?

This all depends on whether the 'higher ups' want rid of Boris or not.

Two options:

A) They want rid of him and things are going to keep getting worse until he quits.
B) They're allowing a pile on for now, get it out of the way, then he's in the clear

There's always a plan. Even if it looks like this is all unplanned. Just watch...
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My personal opinion is that this has all been orchestrated by Cummins for being ousted.

He is drip feeding the leaks to the press
 
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What happened with the traces of cocaine that were found in 9 out of 10 of the loos in the Houses of Parliament? Has that been forgotten about now?
 
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IanSuth said:
My personal opinion is that this has all been orchestrated by Cummins for being ousted.

He is drip feeding the leaks to the press
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Which is curious to me. I thought he was an 'underling' - why does he yield so much power? How is he able to get things in to the press?

If leaking to the press, why do they take his word for it? Why now? They've known about these 'parties' for over a year but now?
 
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simon field said:
What happened with the traces of cocaine that were found in 9 out of 10 of the loos in the Houses of Parliament? Has that been forgotten about now?
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Isn't there some sort of legal loophole with that? Westminster is above the law isn't it? The police are not allowed to just wander around, they have to ask permission to access certain areas and can you imagine the legal challenges that would be launched if the Met actually did 'police things'.

Seems as though it has been brushed under the carpet, as it would impact far too many important people.
 
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I must caveat my reply by being open and honest with my dislike for Boris Johnson: I did not vote for him, and have always felt he was an appalling politician and the worst Prime Minister of my life time. I also deeply dislike the current conservative government- I think they are right wing populists and deeply damaging our democracy and country.

Any, now to Johnson. His star began to fall in late October/early November with his dreadful handling of the Patterson affair, and its been downhill ever since. However, he has been kept in power a) because he was still liked by many of the electorate and b) he is now a puppet of the even more right wing ERG element of the party, so they are (were) unlikely to depose him. Plus, as others have said, his successors may want him to carry the can for the upcoming “shocks” (energy bill rise, NatIona Insurance contribution rise, local elections etc.)

But I do now wonder, has he become so toxic that he is now damaging the brand? I wonder if he is becoming the conservative parties Jeremy Corby - a man seen so negatively by much of the electorate, yet still synonymous with the Labour Party (as an example, you see it on this forum - people still say “… but Corbyn…” despite the fact he is no longer leader of the party, or even a member of the party.

Boris Johnson will not lead the Conservative party into the next election. He should go now. The longer he stays the more he will harm the chances of a Tory victory. I don’t want a Tory victory at the next election, but I still want him to go now as if he stays the damage he will do to the countries “belief” in politicians will be irreparably damaged.
 
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The Byre said:
Yes! We are moving towards Northern Ireland joining the RoI and an independent Scotland, which will then make life difficult for any Westminster PM by joining the EU.

The Westminster political machine has been failing since the War. It started disastrously and got progressively worse by degrees. It has now reached the bottom of the barrel.

That is an interesting philosophical view - the worst person in the worst job.

Or as Rene Descartes might have put it "Non cognito, ergo stultus facio."

Kant stated that if a person has no freedom of choice (as you imply is the case for any current PM) then anything they do can have no moral worth. We must therefore deduct that every human being is endowed with a conscience that makes them aware that moral laws have authority over them.

If that is what you mean by 'The Johnson Inversion' then the prime minister has certainly proven that argument to my full satisfaction!
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TBh I've no idea what most of that means


But I think we're broadly in agreement?
 
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We live in a non reality world where the heroes on TV are Mexican drug dealers. Doing wrong and getting away with it is seen as a badge of honour so I don't see Boris being replaced until attitudes change or a popular replacement from either party appears.
 
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www.bbc.co.uk

Ex-Covid taskforce head Kate Josephs apologises for leaving drinks

Former Cabinet Office official Kate Josephs confirms the 2020 event was held despite restrictions.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk

This latest one hit home - on Dec 18th last year i was laying on a sofa trying to keep my old business going (unsuccessfully) whilst dripping sweat on the carpet from a covid fever whilst my wife lay in bed with a fever of 39 (she had that for 4 days), my brother had had to drive his work van to London on the 16th to save my daughter from being locked into a single room in a Uni hall of residence for the entire of xmas as that is what the rules on the 18th would have meant if she had still been there.

How can the Covid task force (in London) have thought the rules could be interpreted to allow works drinks - if my daughter was spotted with anyone else in her kitchen (no blinds and auto on lights so easy) security were straight in to check no body was "mingling" with people from outside their corridor, which meant she only saw the same 3 people in person for over a month (the rest had gone home) and nevermore than 1 other at once
 
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100000 Russian troops heading for Europe and we have these morons in charge who have not even noticed the advanced
The problem !
If Russia enter the EU by force it will be us that has to go out and sort it out and they have not even addressed this
 
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I think Boris should go because of one piece of major incompetence. He forgot to get Dominic Cummings to sign the Official Secrets Act. :(
 
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Hmmm. I saw him issue a grovelling apology, but what for?

And how dull must a party be if you don’t know if you’re at work?
 
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I like Raab's comment today - "PM who lied to Parliament would normally resign" sub-text - but he hasn't resigned so far.
 
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japancool said:
Well, shouldn't the EU sort it out? The French clearly think they don't need our help (this time, because it worked out so well the last couple of times).
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No No No No
We let them play their little games of empire building but when the S££t is real it will be down to us to sort it out :)
Most importantly we have our NATO obligations
 
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On Radio 4 yesterday afternoon a person who had spent over 10 years working in Downing Street up to a few years ag stated that over the last 10-15 years Drinks was a popular occurrences each week where heads of various department would meet with the workers and apparently seen as a reward for the long hours and low pay in downing street

The scary thing is if Boris goes who will replace him, for his faults he has done lots of decisive good decisions and nobody else in the conservatives seems to be a strong leader
 
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JEREMY HAWKE said:
No No No No
We let them play their little games of empire building but when the S££t is real it will be down to us to sort it out :)
Most importantly we have our NATO obligations
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Ukraine isn't in the EU or NATO.

If and when Russia invades Ukraine, again, we'll all look the other way.


Assuming Boris is terrible and should resign, who do you replace him with?
 
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NickGrogan said:
Ukraine isn't in the EU or NATO.

If and when Russia invades Ukraine, again, we'll all look the other way.


Assuming Boris is terrible and should resign, who do you replace him with?
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Russians in the Ukraine are a threat to Europe where most are NATO members

They should replace him with you Nick
 
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