Need Business Advisor/Mentor..Please

[papverpoppies]

Can anyone suggest the best way to find a good business advisor (that does not cost the Earth)?

I have lost my previous advisor (as he has moved Counties).

Mike was brill - and totally supportive - although I am not just looking for a yes person - I do want someone who will be honest with me.

As I am on my own - in my business venture - I need the help and support from someone who knows what they are talking about.

I have already had the architect try to rip me off.

I did try and engage the services of a Mentor (but to be honest) they had NO idea and never seemed to read or listen to what I was actually saying or asking!

There has to be some really good sound help out there for new business's.

I have joined business link North West (I am in Cumbria).

Thanks

Poppy

 

[movietub]

My belief is that the shared wisdom and experience you can find on forums such as this is of more value than anything you can pay for.

The problem with proffesional advisors is they are very good in some areas but very out of touch in others.

Whatever situation or decision you come up against if you post on here there is a very good chance someone will had been in a similar situation and will se your question. That sort of collective experience input didn't exist pre-web.

And it's free so why not just ask each time you need a hand?

Is there a current problem?

 

[papverpoppies]

Thanks for your reply.

Is there a problem?

Well, as a single female going it alone - I have to say it is hard going.

Not so much as the road I need to go down in order to get my business off the ground - but the sharks popping out of the water, thinking you are easy prey.

Is is hard enough trying to make all of this come together, without sorting out the good from the bad.

My main concern is the best way to finance my business.

I am not concerned about putting the business plan together - I can do that (already 2/3 done) I then intend to have it printed proffessionally so it looks the business. I know the business plan is crucial.

What then? Do I take it around the lenders myself, or would it be best to go down the road of asking an accountant (as I have property) mortgaged but not to the full value. -so do I seek help on that front.

What I am trying to say is - its daunting and worrying that I will make a mistake and get it wrong.

I know I can make my business a winner - but I need to get to that stage.

Poppy

 

[serendipitybusiness]

Rachel Elenaugh offers a business mentoring service if that helps.

 

[movietub]

Ok lets take a few steps back. Some of the things on your mind either don't need to be a concern yet or may never need to be.

For example a proffesionally printed business plan? Quality wise it just needs to be readable and free of txt spk the rest is down to the content.

Where you sekk funding depends on how much you need, what you need it for and whether you simply need to borrow cash to get setup or can offer an investment opportunity.

So whats the business? Good place to start!

 

[movietub]

By the way being a single female is not really a factor!!! The main thing to identify is the strength of your judgement and instinct, not whether you have boy bits or girl bits

 

[SalesDNA]

If using a free service such as business link, make sure:

1. You trust them and get on with them
2. They have specific experience in the areas you are weak at
3. Ask yourself - would I be happy if i was paying for this service
4. Workout the opportunity cost of your time. i.e If you want to earn around £50K per annum then your hourly figure is around £100 (holidays, unproductive time e.t.c) see my blog for explanation salesdnaltd.com/blog Therefore if you are not getting more than that in value from the free time then you are cheating yourself and your business.

 

[accountancyextra]

Poppy,

I think of mentoring more like coaching where the mentor helps you find your own answers to the obstacles you face. It's the old "give a man a fish..." routine.

A professional adviser will help you not get taken for a ride by the "sharks", but will specialise in their own areas e,g. a good accountant will help you with the plan and raising Finance, a good solicitor will help make sure you've got watertight contracts etc.

I'm sure there's exceptions, but to be honest the general level of advice provided from the free services (eg Business Link) ain't always that great.

PS as Movietub has alraedy said, don't worry about high quality printing....it's the content that matters and how useful the document is to you.

 

[papverpoppies]

Hi

Thanks for the replies.

Today I learned that my architect has taken me for a wide.
I am down to the tune of £400 (with another 400 to pay) - which I am contesting.

He also tried to have me believe that the planning fees would be £635 - when in reality they are £335!

I have taken legal advise and been told that I have to say bye bye to the 1st £400 - and legally (verbal contract - is a binding as written) if the architect contests it I have to pay the further £400. I will challenge this via the small claims courts if needs be.

I have had no receipt for my 1st payment (was a cheque) so I have proof of payment - but not very re-assuring is it?

I have been told by the planners that the fee he charged was 'disgusting' and the plans have had to go back as they are incomplete. There are 2 buildings on my plans...the cattery and the site office - the rest is field, pond, trees drive way.

The cattery design/plans came from the cattery manufacturers and he just expanded the size and plonked it into place on the plans.

Not a good start is it?

Before you ask why not give the architect chance to put it right? The answer is lack of trust - once that is gone there is nothing else left.

Poppy

 

[scribe]

As already said, the advice you will get from forum members is priceless there is a wealth of professionals on here available to cater for most of your business needs who are without doubt trustworthy which i feel is one of your main concerns.Your right in saying it can be a rocky road, but you'll get there in the end . As for the Architect, lesson learned i myself have been stung one-way or another in the past put it down to experience. Good luck.

 

[movietub]

Poppy,

I'm lost! You seem to be explaining parts of the problem but not the whole situation. So far all we know is that you want to get a business plan professionally printed and that you have a fall out with your architect. Still no idea what the business you are forming is or why you needed the architect!

A £400 disputed payment is a very small amount for a project big enough to require an architect. If the drawing are for outline only (sounds that way) then any CAD guy would have been able to submit something suitable. So maybe you don't need an architect at all? It also sounds like you may be over relient on proffesional advice. No matter how many people you consult it's your project and if you are not in full control you will be charged a lot of money by a lot of people. Non of whom are focussed on the end goal of the project in the same way you are.

As said you can trust the people on here as there is no financial angle to worry about. Generally people don't speak up unless they may be able to help.

So whats the ful story? what are you trying to achieve? What is the business?

NB a verbal contract is nothing like a written one - in small claims it would come down to nothing more than the judges decision as to whether the charges were reasonable for the work carried out. A comparison quote from another proffesional would help no end if you think you were over charged.

 

[maxine]

Hi Poppy

I think Movietub raises some good points in us not understanding particular issues enough perhaps to help with what you want to achieve or what you are having problems with specifically.

Do you want help with the architect dispute or just feeling a bit overwhelmed?

Max

 

[Techy]

Poppy,

Like Movietub identifies, you need to focus on what you actually need. The post is titled business advisor but you go on about help with architects and business plans.

I have been in the engineering business for almost 10years (and I am happy for people to run me down) but have only compiled / updated business plans to keep my bank manager happy, so they are not the big deal they are made out to be.

My business plan is in my heart!

Not sure why you need an architect but I have a qualified mate who runs his own practise and I'm sure he would be happy to help you if actually needed. He has clients such as Seimens and won't screw you for what he can get.

Give people he full picture and you will get the appropriate help.

I'm in Lancashire and if you need any help / contacts please let me know, as been stung too many times before and more than happy to ensure other people can avoid this / get decent value for money.

 

Poppy,
This thread reads like a typical situation where a business advisor/mentor makes sense. This forum is excellent but the contributions are limited because any advice will be only as good as the information that it is based on.

I would be happy to offer you such a service but it would be by email and this might not be what you wanted as you lost your previous advisor because he moved counties. As to cost, I am happy to agree on whatever you feel comfortable with as my normal day rate would be silly. Why not free then? Well I have learnt the hard way that people tend not to value and act on something which they have not paid for.

It sounds as though you intend to start a cattery. I would not bring specific expertise to the table (other than living next door to a cat breeder) but you should already have that knowledge. You need help with things you would come across in any business start up and that an advisor should be able to provide. If you want someone local then that rules me out. Here are two contributions as a response to the thread.

First, never get your business plan "printed". A good business plan is updated and anyone who reads a "printed" one is going to know that yours is static. Spend the money on a decent ink-jet printer and some prestige paper which will give you all the quality you need. This will help with every part of your business not just the business plan.

Second, engage with your local business community. have you joined a Chamber or similar. If not, do so now. When you have contacts locally who know you, you can ask around and find someone local who has built their own business and who you like and trust. Business people will often act as advisors to new start-ups but they are choosy and need to know you or know about you from other business contacts as they will not wish to waste time on no-hopers.

Hope this helps. PM me if I can be of any further assistance.

 

[profitxchange]

If you want to explore a mentor; PM me - I have have mentored three or four businesses from this forum from time to time. It is usually pro bono - unless there is some heavyweight work to do.


click on the wantamentor link below for more general info.

 

[indicaj01]

Hi Poppy

I too agree with Movietub etc, I have no doubt that you have a million and one things running round in your head and now that your previous mentor is out of reach you seem to be rather overwhelmed.
Dont worry, this is the nature of starting up on your own no matter what the area of business you're in.
It may be not such a bad thing that you no longer have your hand held by a mentor.

Remember you CAN DO this.
It may help to write down your immediate problems, this will help free up some head space.

Then work on tackling one problem at a time.
You don't need to post them here if you prefer not to. However, having them written down somewhere will help you to remain focused on your goal.

It may even help to go back to the start, and focus on what it is you want to achieve from your business, and who does it serve?

Is your market the same this year as it was last year?

Do you really need finance for all areas, or can you work around it until you have a strong enough business to cope with the loan repayments?

What is the minimum amount of finance you need to get started and breakdown how will it be used?

Work with what you have as much as possible, this will help you to become more resourceful and lateral thinking. There is a lot of truth in the saying 'where there is a will there is a way'.

...I had written a huge amount more, but without knowing how far along the line you are and what you actually need, if anything. I felt it better not to overwhelm or patronise inadvertently.

I wish you the best of luck in getting your money back from the architect, and finding what you need for your business plan.
There is a wealth of information here and online, as I am sure you have found out.

Wishing you every success with your new venture.
Helen

 

[papverpoppies]

I am starting a cattery - and I need the plans for planning approval.

If I sound confused - it is simply because the people I am employing are not doing their job - not because I am incapable.


In answer to the 'it is your business, your are in control' yes I am, and that is why I have sacked the architect.

You also say I do not need to have my business plan proffesionaly printed (I have been told by a senior business banking manager - and by several other people) on the business courses I am attending, that this is not a waste of money (not if it gets you that loan) it makes the BP stand out, and makes your presentation look proffesional - yes it will have to be updated - but that will have to be looked at as when it arises.

I also have a friend who runs a printing company (so fingers crossed for some cheap printing) especially as they are printing my business literature.


I do have a good printer - but I can only be guided by the people who are offering business loans today - and what they say they are looking for.

I have joined my local Chamber and Commerce, I am also doing a degree in animal management - to back up the many years experience I have with animals.

I think that perhaps some of you have forgotten how hard it was to start your business - and how sometimes it seems like a mountain to climb.

I am also doing this 100% myself - from coming out of a 20 + year relationship breakup of which I had to fight for every little thing - so yes, I get nervous at times - but not about to give in.

I have already had publicity in a national magazine - and fully intend to make my business work.

Going back to the architect I did contact several companies - but some did not want to take on a cattery (not big enough for them) and that was not an issue (I would rather companies/people be honest! The architect I did engage I was unlucky - he though he could obtain money from me - and not do the job correctly. I will learn from it.

I have contacted another architect and been given a price for the same work - less than half of the cost of my 1st architect. And, I will use this if I have to go to Court.

I have spoken to a solicitor and they have told me how I stand legally. Verbal is a contract, so we wait and see what the next move of the said architect is.

As to my business advisor I was very lucky to find him when I did. He gave me the belief and the support to go ahead with my plans.

Like I said earlier, when you are in business already you are at a different level and stage, than those of us taking those 1st steps - we are still carving out our path - support is invaluable.

I went out their and raised the finances to buy out my ex share of a 4 acre farmhouse - because I knew my business and my future was here- as well as a property that has stacks of potential - so I am not all together green behind the ears!

Sometimes the hill seems mighty steep to climb and someone every now and then, to give you a gentle push up that hill does help.

Poppy

 

[accountancyextra]

.
You also say I do not need to have my business plan proffesionaly printed (I have been told by a senior business banking manager - and by several other people) on the business courses I am attending, that this is not a waste of money (not if it gets you that loan) it makes the BP stand out, and makes your presentation look proffesional - yes it will have to be updated - but that will have to be looked at as when it arises.
Poppy

Make your plan look professional and serious - yes, but you don't need to go to the expense of having it professionally printed. Honestly, just good quality paper in a clip folder is fine. Banks do not make lending desicions based on the quality of someones printing, if they did they'd just lend to anyone who printed their plans on good quality paper....... (although it would explain the current position with corporate toxic assets)

Most of the responses you've had are people trying to be helpful (including my own and I apologise if it didn't come across that way). We haven't forgotten what it's like starting out - in fact I get reminded every week from the start up clients we deal with.

Yes it's tough and it's great that you are seeking professional support - it is the best way. You just need to be sure exactly what sort of support you need as at the end of the day, they are still hired help and the buck will ultimately stop with you.

Even though your adviser has moved, couldn't you work remotely with him? There are so many remote communication methods available these days. We work with a number of our clients this way on a daily basis and I don't think they'd say that they were at a disadvantage just because we are not in the same office. If you want some ideas on remote working or just want some pointers FOC then just PM me.

 

[indicaj01]

I am not all together green behind the ears!

Oo ouch! I really wasnt trying to suggest you were.
My post was aimed really at any business starting up as you hadn't pointed out where along the line you currently are.
I guess you are just frustrated with the mountain you are facing, but really we are only trying to help.

 

[papverpoppies]

Oo ouch! I really wasnt trying to suggest you were.
My post was aimed really at any business starting up as you hadn't pointed out where along the line you currently are.
I guess you are just frustrated with the mountain you are facing, but really we are only trying to help.

I am sorry that message was not aimed at the board.

I was trying to say that although my posts may have been a little unclear, I am not (or I hope not) a banana short of a full bunch.

It was not intended in an offensive or rude manner.

Sorry if it came across as such!

Poppy

 

[movietub]

I am sorry that message was not aimed at the board.

I was trying to say that although my posts may have been a little unclear, I am not (or I hope not) a banana short of a full bunch.

It was not intended in an offensive or rude manner.

Sorry if it came across as such!

Poppy

Poppy,

I really do get the impression you are too foccused on getting advice and mentoring rather than getting your own head around the overall picture of forming and running a business.

For example the business plan - it's such a tiny part of the actual preperation of a business. It's also a very small part of getting a loan. Figures that work and a realistic approach showing that you understand how the business will run is the important part.

The architect is another example of trying to hard to do things the textbook ideal way when its simply not required. This is outline planning. People still regularly send in hand drawn outline plans. Sketches of the main details and construction can be done by the builders you have consulted.

The problem with professional advice is a professional person is bound to advise you in a way that they cannot risk being critisized. The advice can be so far over the top. You are talking about starting a small local business. 95% of the decisions to be made can be done more cheaply and much faster using plain old common sense.

For example the business plan. What do you think is the most likely reason the bank would not choose to lend you the money? Addressing possible problems like that is a more effective use of your time than worrying about the quality of the print.

 

[papverpoppies]

The architect is another example of trying to hard to do things the textbook ideal way when its simply not required. This is outline planning. People still regularly send in hand drawn outline plans. Sketches of the main details and construction can be done by the builders you have consulted.

I am sorry but you are totally wrong!

I have had 2 site meetings with the planners - and this is not outline planning permission - it is full planning permission.

I am not sure how you have come to that conclusion, I have not said - so you must have assumed.

I live in a area of outstanding natural beauty - so the planners what full plans - of what my business will look like - with the landscaping and planting of the area - not a sketch on the back of a bit of paper by a builder.


There are people on this board who offer mentoring (it is not a crime to ask for help) or I was not under the impression that it was.

My head is focused - and I am sorry I came to the board and asked for help - some of you obviously cannot accept that concept - and see it as a weakness.

Poppy

 

[peebles]

Hi Poppy,

I don't mean to offend anyone on here but sometimes you guys can be a right pain in the a*se!!!

Poppy, I am a female, setting up my own business consultancy. I would love to work with you. If you are interested please PM me. I understand what you're going through - it's the ability to trust in others, I've been there myself.

Peebles.

 

[Techy]

Peebles,

Sorry you feel that way...

I have no idea who Movietub is but he states good advice!

When I started I got really hung about keeping the bank, accountants, suppliers, clients, auditors and the industry people etc happy that making money was the least of my priorities!

After 10yrs I still get hung up about these things but providing a good service and (most importantly) making money is now my main priorities.

Don't be too dismissive of people's advice as they have been through the hurdles. The only thing that changes once you get established is that you become more comfortable with jumping through them.

 

[peebles]

Hi Techie,

I was referring to the OP's onslaught of attacks of asking a simple question and asking for guidance. Some of the comments are quite destructive IMO. There's no need to be like this and that's all I was referring to. IMO if you don't have anything constructive to say, and I mean constuctive, then don't say anything. If you think about it from the OP point of view, they have been advised to 'just come on UKBP and you'll get a wealth of information' but then has been slated for not stating their case specifically etc. That's what drives me mad about this forum, there are so many opinions which are not all constructive and/or realistic. It puts people off posting, as they think they'll look stupid. There is no such thing as a stupid question.

I know you might think I'm weird but I LOVE bank, accountants, suppliers, clients, auditors and the industry people, so long as the figures stack up I'm happy. There's nothing better than knowing your books balance and that you've paid your suppliers on time, and that there's some left over to pay into your personal bank account. See I know you think I'm weird but it's true! I love nothing better than getting your suppliers to charge less, and running cashflow. That's why I've set up my own business consultancy, because I know people generally hate this kind of thing! If you're interested I can take all of that away from you. PM me for further info.

Peebles.

 

[papverpoppies]

Hi

What I found off putting was MovieTubs assumption about my business (when he had little of the facts) - and the belittling and arrogant tone of the replies.

The planning matter for instance! Words like 'there you go again' followed with the 'outline planning permission' comment - trying to suggest that I have no idea what I am doing (when they have never even asked any questions in relation to that aspect of my business).

Which is one thing on the business courses I am attending we are told never to do 'assume' anything.

I came to ask for help - and posted what has been suggested to me in relation to my busines plan (from people who work in that field) who run the business courses I attend.

I am then almost ridiuculed by some on here - for daring to post what has been suggested to me.

Could the people who have replied to that issue in this thread, please tell me if they work in finance and hand out business loans? Because, if you read most of what is written on any good business websites (as well as my business courses) run by 'business people' they tell you that your BP is the most important door to your business. Which goes against one reply on here.

I find it sad that some people cannot offer help to people without trying to humilate and belittle them. I have NO problem taking good constructive critism on board (I joined this board for that).

I may not be in some of you guys league - but we all start somewhere, and asking for help does not make us useless - we all do things differently as well (and those that are human make mistakes).

Thanks to those who did offer some words of help much appreciated.

Poppy

 

[JADEMEDIA]

Poppy - what would you like first. The bad news or the not so good news. I'll start with the bad news as it addresses your question ' has any one experience in the finance industry'.

Well my father was a finance broker for over 25 years and I worked for him for about 7. Over 4 years part-time when a uni and for 3 years afterwards mainly dealing with commercial mortgages and finance. Lending criteria has changed a lot since those days but many things remain the same.

That business plan you keep going on about. If it is detailed it should be about 20 pages and any bog standard printer will do the job. However - how it is presented is important but it's not exactly rocket science or expensive. Most school children now put their projects in a nice folder. A 20p folder then as Movietub suggested and in your case I would use a clear front cover and have a nice picture of a kitten on the outer cover of the BP along with the business name and presented by yourself. NOW comes the important part.

All that worrying about having the BP professionally printed. What a waste of time and energy because I can guarantee you this NO-ONE other than you is ever going to read it - and I mean NO-ONE. Yes - bank managers and other commercial lenders want to see you have done your research and the BP is well thought out but all they will ever read is the 2 - 3 page Executive Summary of your BP and one of those pages should show projected cash flow. It is the ES that is all important then and while only a few pages these guys can tell from this whether you have done your homework or not and if the business is viable on paper at least.

Now the not so bad news part 1 - but only just. Unless you have the equity in your small holding or can find a partner you are extremely unlikely to get finance. Even with the freehold and a going concern with audited accounts it is difficult to get finance for a dog kennels without a large deposit. You may find the only option a partner then and on that front I think that there is some good news.

As with running a village pub owning a dog kennels or cattery is a dream for many people. It shouldn't be too difficult to sell a minority interest in the business alone ( not the freehold ) to get it off the ground and at the same time you get a reliable assistant. All of which leads on the ' the not so bad news part '2 and I hope you forgive me for being entirely frank and a little personal.

It is obviously that you were hurt badly by the failure of the marriage and it does seem to have left you with an attitude problem. Take that architect for instance. Lets not forget that all professionals value their own services and some quite a bit higher than others. That doesn't mean that they are outragiously expensive and quite honestly I think that £800 quid to obtain detailed planning is actually quite a quite modest fee - especially as you say the premises are in an area designated as being of natural beauty. That's tougher than being on the edge of green belt. I am sure however that if you moan about a competitor you can get quotes galore of doing it cheaper. What service you get in the end however is another matter especially if they didn't realise the more stringent planning rules applying to your property. As for the overstated Council fees. Maybe the guy built in a few exceptional's like adjustments to layout that he knew would probably be demanded by the Council. After all they are a whole lot demanding when it comes to detailed planning consent in one fell swoop that giving outline first. Who knows it might even have been a simple typo error. Calling some-one a rip off merchant over such a relatively minor amount sounds more that a bit harsh especially when a simple and dare I say it non-confrontational enquiry may have resolved matters.

Moving on to this forum. Being completely impartial I certainly saw nothing demeaning in the other members posts and how Peeples can descibe the replies from members as an onslaught is beyond me - where I am afraid to say that own replies rather than sounding determined and up to the mark showed somewhat of an inferiority complex. Understandable given your recent circumstances but in better times that sort of bitter attitude could lead to pride in your achievements coming across as sheer arrogance. Not exactly the right mental attiture for any business - unlessof course you are a Paris Cafe owner where nothing less than outright rudeness is expected.

I'll end by saying chill out sister. Bury the baggage and look to the future and in doing so lets have no more of this being a poor female creature in a mans world. We are not poor or second class. We are far - far superior to the male species so lighten up too. Take a lesson from Peeples.

I bet that gal flirts outrageously with her bank manager and suppliers and why not. Instead of suing that architect then why not invite him round. Give him a glass of wine and tickle him under the chin like a cat. Then when his purring tell him your pay the balance of his fee in cat holiday vouchers. Your have him rolling about the floor laughing with his legs in the air. Jade

 

[movietub]

I am sorry but you are totally wrong!

I have had 2 site meetings with the planners - and this is not outline planning permission - it is full planning permission.

I am not sure how you have come to that conclusion, I have not said - so you must have assumed.

I live in a area of outstanding natural beauty - so the planners what full plans - of what my business will look like - with the landscaping and planting of the area - not a sketch on the back of a bit of paper by a builder.


There are people on this board who offer mentoring (it is not a crime to ask for help) or I was not under the impression that it was.

My head is focused - and I am sorry I came to the board and asked for help - some of you obviously cannot accept that concept - and see it as a weakness.

Poppy

Ahhhhhh... ok!

I think you have misread my opinion of you Poppy! As far as the planning issue you are right it was an assumption - although it was stated as an assumption. I was going only on what little you had made clear and what it sounded like.

I think your other comments directed at me are very much out of line. I was the first person to post suggesting that you had in fact come to the right place to get real world advice based on the collective experience of people using this forum. I never suggested you should not ask for help.

I also went on to say be careful of being over reliant on professional advice (paid for advice/mentoring) as this can lead to detachment from the overall business yourself.

A professional will always advise you the textbook method to achieve a generic business goal. But success (I believe) is in the finer business specific details. My business does not fit any established business models and my methods would make a bank manager quiver.

Lets look at an example of the problems you could encounter:

A business mentor looking at your overheads and costs would calculate the realistic minimum level of custom you can expect for the first 12 months and recommend a pricing structure for the worse case scenario. In doing so his advice cannot be criticized because he has prevented the business from building debts early on due to not covering costs.

In practice however the prices they suggest could stop the business from ever getting off the ground. It's possible there is another local cattery that you are in competition with but you know you can provide a better overall service. In that instance I would say price lower and accept a 2 year loss - that loss would be the price your business pays to enter and secure a market long term. A professional would never say that.

Thats just one example and it may be completely inappropriate to your situation. The key thing is that you maintain an executive understanding of why your business is realistic and how it needs to achieve its goals. If you are the right person to run your business your own advice is more worthy than generic business advice based on the closest reference model that fits.

I would implore you to start again with this thread and lay out clearly what you want to achieve and why you think its worth doing.

That way those of us who have tackled very similar obstacles can speak up and provide very fitting advise - and those that have not can be quietened

 

[papverpoppies]

Thank you Jademedia for your wonderful assinsation of me. Let me just tell you (that I live alone, and your words have made me feel like s**t!

I hope you have a nice bank holiday also - you sound like a really nice person to know.

Poppy

 

[Techy]

Maybe this post is becoming too personal for the benefit sought?

Jade - I would love to cause you problems, as your settlement techniques sound fantastic! Prrrrr or Grrrrrr

 

[movietub]

Thank you Jademedia for your wonderful assinsation of me. Let me just tell you (that I live alone, and your words have made me feel like s**t!

I hope you have a nice bank holiday also - you sound like a really nice person to know.

Poppy

Poppy,

Did you notice the length of some of my replies to this thread?

And now rather than respond to my long and well thought out post making clear that it was not my intention to upset you, you would rather pick an argument with someone else that tried to help (and defend me a little! - thanks jade).

What is this attitude all about?

Here is my first impression of you - and if you care about how well printed your business plan is you sure as hell need to care about the impression of yourself you give out. Even if you disagree with it.

I feel that you have had a hard time and have become over hardened. You are jumping at any chance to defend yourself when there is no need. You want to be the underdog that makes it through with a stiff upper lip despite lesser people criticising your plans. And worse of all I feel that you have problem with men - that last ones just a hunch.

I want it clearly understood that I am not saying that is your situation or personality, I do not know you. What I am saying is that is the impression you have given me (and I think others) and that is the first thing you need to sort out.

You cannot run a business if such minor things as the way people word things are enough to make you shun otherwise sound and solid advice.

Either you're wrong about the people on here or thousands of other regular contributers are. Which is most likely?

 

[JADEMEDIA]

Poppy. I really can't understand how you can call my comments character assassination. Far from it. The intent was to offer support by saying you can get through everything in life given the right mental attitude and that has to start with getting rid of the chip on your shoulder that comes through time and time again and I am not being unduly personal here. It is simply not the way to get on in business and it could destroy your hopes of succeeding.

We have all had days for instance when everything seems to go wrong and when we are our normal self we brush it off as Murphy's Law and as it affects everyone at times take it in our stride. When our energy is drained by a long drawn out painful event like a divorce however we take it more personally and up go the barriers and paranoia sets in.

Take that architect again that you think was trying to rip you off. I know personally that there are many people out there who are not qualified architects but technical draughtsman who prepare plans for local councils and they can cost £400-£500 just to submit proposals and drawings for a brick built garage to replace the derelict wooden one. My own father paid more than £1200 for the plans and the architect to see the project through and that was just to have a doorway replaced by an arch in his wine bar but believe me he is no fool. Most architects don't just draw up plans. They spends years gaining experience in what the local Council will allow and what not. So as with a good accountant you are paying for results that can save you money. The £800 you mentioned really isn't a lot for a qualified architect to task the task on for a completely new build.

Coming back to the forum and your bite back at me. It doesn't matter how good a communicator anyone is it is not always easy to get the message across in a forum because as with text messages and email the wording may seem abrupt and it does take some time to get used to it.

Maybe if I had added a few Smilies here and there you would have taken a different view. I don't know. Either way I do sincerely apologise if you took offence at any of my comments and I'll end with one more.

When you do get your business up and running with the new confidence it will bring as I am sure you will you will find comments like ' not bad going for a woman living on her own - or well done girl ' extremely patronizing. Maybe then you will value constructive advice as being useful even if you don't agree and Movietub did take the time to give you a great deal of sound advice only to have his arm biten off. Jade

 

[papverpoppies]

Please let me explain about the architect and his fees.

The cattery is not to be brick built, but it comes in kit form (and the planners are fine with that) we have discussed natural planting ie trees on the site. So no problem there.

On the site plan is the cattery, my site office (again not brick) and the driveway down to the cattey. The trees, and the outline of the pond.

The cattery itself the architect took detailed plans from the cattery manufacturer, resized them and placed them on the plan.

Plannning told me that there was no site office and no drive on the submitted plan. No services - nothing!

He did not come round to measure the site as promised, and he paced out the size of my office by walking my kitchen floor. He would not have gone out into the area where it is to be, had I not have asked to do so.

He said he would give the planners a link to a well known DIY store for my office, when I raised this matter and said NO I wanted my site office drawn with the parking bays etc etc (well pie in the sky)! My office is not a BQ shed by the way.

For the 1st payment he turned up at the house on Bank Holiday Monday (no call) just arrrived asking for the £400 (no receipt given or received)with a promise that the plans would be submitted that week. I gave him time for the cheque to clear, but some 10 days after that he still had not done so. I left a message asking for him to contact me. He did not. I was left to ring planning again and find out what was happening. They told me they had come through late the previous evening (after my call) but had been sent back - because they were incomplete.

It was the planners who told me that his pricing was disgusting.

I am sorry - but if this had of been a house, or a substanstial brick built cattery - then of course I accept mistakes happen and things get left off. But, in reality all he had to do was put on the cattery,(which he did not draw anyway) the office and drive. Also as to trying to get an extra £300 from me - he really was trying to milk it.

When trying to contact him - there is an answerphone which I think says 'message' but it could be anything - as it is so garbled - and he never does ring back (even when you are his client) so in all fairness he does not come across as proffesional - and I do not feel I have been rash in taking the decision I have. After all I have lost a chunk of money and been set back in my time scale. But, I do not think that I should sit back and accept that level of service or reward it by keeping him on board.

I have since had another architect to come out and view the site (and I did not tell him any of the previous account) and he gave me a full figure of nearly less than the quote from my previous architect. In fact two days later he sent me an attachment with his outline plan - and left a message on my answerphone to confirm this (it took my previous architect 4 weeks to do this) because he said he had forgotten!

As to the BP - what does one do, when the business course you are attending - you are told to present your BP in the format I have already mentioned.

That is why I enroled on the courses in the first place - to get help in setting up a business. So perhaps you can understand my dilema?

Anyway that issue I will leave well alone.

Yes I have come along way since my breakup - and yes I still have a lot to learn. But, I do not have an attitude problem - I am certainly not bitter.

Thanks

Poppy

 

Oh dear this has got a bit heated.
Anyway here is one more attempt at being helpful.
It seems to me that the key to all this is the business plan and this is just the thing that they teach so badly in these classes. I have written something which is too long for this thread and is something which I had to get round to anyway as it is part of something which I intend to publish eventually. I have written this as thoughtstreaming and would not normally publish in this state but if you go to my web site (see profile) and add ../"busplan.htm" you will find it. I hope that it is useful to you as it is. There is stuff missing and a great lack of detail but I hope there is enough in there to start you thinking about a business plan in a whole new way. I have been through this type of thing with every business I have helped or been involved with (they nearly all have been startups of something even within large established businesses) so I know whereof I speak.

If it is not useful then let it lie and die quietly. I would not want to get into the tangles I see above.

 

[movietub]

Poppy,

To focus on the architect (I guess getting planning permission is the most critical part of this project for now!) I would say that a price being 'disgusting' comes down to the level of service. Certainly on large scale commercial builds an architect won't pick up his phone for less than that.

However if the architect turned up and made an independant observation for a change that he thought could radically increase your chances of getting permission early on then he would be worth his weight in gold and would probably deserve a great deal more than he ever asked for! It's all relative and there is no point being upset - he won't last long if he's not worth his money. You learn and move onwards and upwards.

What I'm saying is that everyone you deal with is a potential to lose money and often there is nothing much worthwhile you can do about it!

Where are you now with the new Architect? what amount has he quoted you and to deliver what level of drawings? Also is there an agreement to include revisions in the price? A common pot-hole I wouldn't want you falling into...

Would also love to know more about why you ended up deciding to build a cattery..?

 

[papverpoppies]

You would need to see the plans to be able to see what I and the planners are referring to, in relation to price.

One map downloaded from Google Earth (as told by the architect) one tiny little building situated at the far end if the field - and some trees. End of!

I failed to do my research on him - I have since gone through some 250+ planning applications - and he had submitted 1 - which was declined.

So lesson learnt.

Just to add that the price quoted (in writing also) from new architect is to get the plans to the stage of being accepted by the planners) so yes, it includes any changes - and he has submitted 15 sets of plans for various in the last weeks/months of which 7 have been accepted the rest are pending/new submissions.

And, yes you are correct, I do need planning permission before I can do anything else.


Why did I decide on a cattery.

Several reasons.

My 25 years hands on with animals (working in rescue).
I also have my own registered charity - so animals are my passion.
This property and its ideal location and set up.
NO competition (the most important facture)
Also my contacts and connections because of my years with animals - which has kept me up to date with the pet industry.

They say stay within what you know when hoping to set up a business (so that was the clincher).

I am also moving away from your standard cattery small cell and no view.
I have visited, visited and done my 'research' on this aspect - and you would not believe the poor quality of catteries out there. I am not going to be a large cattery - so my clients/owners will get all round attention.
The aim is to keep them - once they have spent times here - they will come back and back! Which will also be a guide to whether I am getting it right or not.

Hard work for not huge returns - but I not entering into this to make a fortune, pay my mortgage/bills and eat! There will not be a lot of time for much else...not to start with anyway.

I am rounding those years of looking after animals by studying for a degree in animal management.

I fully intend to include other services within my business - but the cattery will be the 1st stage.

I am able to trim and bath dogs and have the facilities here so that is an option.

As to the raising of the finances I do still have a large sum of equity in the house - if needed!

Once my plans get accepted I am off to see an accountant with the BP and see what is the best way to proceed.

Why did I feel I need a mentor?

Well other than some good friends - when you are hell bent on something it is hard to know if you are staying on the right track. Friends are great, but sometimes they tell you what they think you want to hear. Also, when on your own, it can seem like a huge brick wall you are facing - and little problems can get blown out of context.

Anyway, I await the planning approval.
I have my builder for the drains and driveways and concrete cattery base lined up.
The cattery manufacturers come out to the site and erect them.
Electricals are in hand.
Lanscaping ie trees, is down to me and some friends.
The pond is being dug out by the builder.
I have my company name and domain name (web site in hand).

So, I await planning, and then off to accountant and raise the funds one way or another.

As well as trying to put together a business and studying, I am also having to do the house up. Should my business plan not come to fruition, then I will sell this house and look elsewhere - so the house has to be fit to go onto the market.

So I do have a lot on my plate (as well as all my own animals to look after) which include, dogs, cats, and sheep.

Anyway thats about it.

Poppy

 

[movietub]

All sounds pretty positive actually!

I get the impression from what you say that you are at the stage of understanding what the planners want to see and are well underway with the process.

Anything you need for the pond PM me - I run www.warehouse-aquatics.co.uk

Regards funding and the requirement of a business mentor it's possible you could kill two birds with one stone. You're accountant will be able to offer very useful advice on most issues of day to day trading, not just initial financing. Some people see their accountant once a year, others meet 3 times a week and the accountancy practice handles pretty much the entire paperwork side of the business.

I'm getting the impression that your business won't necessarily succeed because its a flawless business model, more because you seem the type who will run a flawless cattery. My point being that unlike most other services a cattery will be judged by the majority solely on quality and dependability. Two factors which require no business experience (and therefore no mentor) to achieve. I have a cat and hand on heart if I ever needed to put him in a cattery my choice of which one would come down to nothing more than the which of my local options was best for him. It would make no difference if one charge £10 a night and the other £40. Like many pet owners I want the best and won't save money at my cats expense.

This is definitely a business that will only needs, and will only succeed if it has, the right person running the operation. And with your experience what more can a business mentor offer? In fact what can a generic business class/course offer?

It also sounds like you are doing this alone but don't necessarily want to. When I first started up alone it was bloody lonely! My friends were great but with their routine 9-5 day I always got the impression the pressures I was under was foreign to them! I suppose its a fact of life that no one will ever understand your business unless they work with you everyday...

In the end I choose to bring someone in as a partner that I knew would add to the business (from their previous expereince in different areas I could add new products and services to what we did originally) and have never looked back. I now have a business partner that I can trust to run things when I'm busy, we offer each other support in many ways and most importantly I am never facing problems alone. There is ALWAYS someone there who is going through the same thing I am. And rather than the added expense of a second person holding the business back she has added value and now we are flying.

Maybe someone in your area is struggling trading alone and can provide another service you can bolt onto your business? Maybe they would love to invest in return for % equity share/profit share and you could both benefit?

Maybe not but worth a little exploration before paying anyone who, honestly, will never understand or care about your business a fraction of the amount you do.

All sounds like you are in control so far by the way - despite the little problems!

 

[Esk247]

i havent read all the posts because they're small pieces of literature in themselves.

good places for mentors are Business Link & Princes Trust there is another but it's dropped off my radar.

as someone mentioned somewhere the bank wants you to have a business plan that is nice and glossy and pretty yes??? BALLS! they want you to take out a loan to pay a company in the city centre to spend 1 day with you and print out a business plan that you already have a detailed picture of, they will charge your bank or you or business link £2,500 to produce this 1 day of work business plan.

it can be difficult being a female and being understood etc. my parents have both run businesses and everytime it was my dad that got the bank phoning him or the salesmen coming round to sell products..they ignored my mum who was a 50/50 owner in the business.

however, i suggest that you either contact business link or use these very forums...i've learnt more here than from a mentor because i can post a message up at 11pm and get a reply 10 minutes later from someone who has been in the same situation.

god..whats wrong with this thread..everyone is writing reams and reams.

 

[movietub]

Esk247,

I use the forums for the same reason myself, I normally find that within 1 very short time of posting I recieve several opinions, some mocking but also some solid advice.

I think this thread recieves such long replies in part becasue there has been some drama... But also because one thing that always makes people post is the notion another forum user may be getting ripped off! The sin of all sins!

I would agree that women get overlooked frequently. My female business partner is never the one out of the two of us that reps shake hands with first. Truth is she's very sharp and scares me frequently. She's also more effective at getting money out of people than I ever was too

 

[papverpoppies]

Thanks for replies.
By the way I have tropical fish as well (love my chocolate talking cat fish) when I see it, that is..

I do not think the going it alone is/will be a problem - not once I am up and running - its the getting there that is taking the time - and each decision (is a learning curve).

And, to be honest there would not be enough business to support a partner (not to begin with anyway) perhaps at a later date and if I expand that would be something I would look into.

I am hoping that with the right facilites, good marketing, and the correct pricing for the service that I will provide, that I will catch the owners who do not want to 'dump' their cat anywhere whilst they enjoy themselves.

Owners will pay more - if they feel they and their pets get well looked after. I have even thought out my booking in procedure - the office will offer a comfortable settee, tea or coffee whilst the owner checks in their cat - and ask any questions. They will be able to spend time (if they choose) taking their cat into its room (no more, hand cat over, and only see it again on collection day) - in other words - nothing hidden - behind closed doors.
I may even offer a webcam.

Its all about peace of mind (as any pet lover knows).

I am hoping that once I go and see an accountant the path will become clearer - and I will then be able to really get down to business.

I have contacted business link - but I think they have so many people registered with them - they find it difficult to allocate time for everyone.
Also when you contact them - you have to go over many of the same things, as you never seem to get to speak to the same person. Not sure how much of your details they keep on file.

Movietub I am trying to keep my site as environmentally friendly as possible, and thinking of planting my pond with grasses and reeds that can be used to filter the water (from the cattery) not animal waste - but water from cleaning down (and this will be very little - and no strong chemicals ) but it would be good if this was available - rather than letting it into the septic tank (no main drains down here) what plants would do this any idea?

Poppy