Motivational speakers....

[Mitch3473]

Could never quite understand why people would be prepared to spend a small fortune to sit in front of and listen to a sharp suited and usually very wealthy salesman. Am I being blinkered and missing something in thinking they are for the weak minded and those lacking self confidance and to assume there is only one winner in the auditorium. Would like to hear any positive and possibly negative views on this.

 

[Caledonian TV]

I'm pretty much with you Mitch... Without exception it's quasi-religious snake oil in my view; I die a little inside when I hear the sheep bleating about their 'leeee-eee-e-daaahs'. But then, mug punters are always looking for the next 'system'; suggesting they don't do it is like asking the birds in the trees not to tweet!

 

[Mr D]

Who do you respect? Think about the people you've never met who you respect most in the world. Particular authors, politicians, leaders, adventurers, scientists etc.

Now if one of them was doing a motivational speech would you travel a hundred miles to go listen?

By the sound of it both of you would not be keen on people who simply advertise themselves as motivational speakers. Entertainment, learning something, not necessarily what you want to do without knowing in advance.

I am a fan of the late Jim Rohn. Among other things a motivational speaker.
I've several of his books.

If Buzz Aldrin was doing a motivational speech in London I'd be happy to go hear him. Never going to the moon myself and not in any way involved with the space program but I'd find his view on Apollo 11 moon landing to be interesting.

 

[Mitch3473]

These guys you mention are scientists, adventurers, politicians etc etc in their own right, it's what they do for a living, they then may then choose to talk about it to interested parties. Tony Robbins etc etc earn a lot of money from just motivational speaking and set their stall and sell their product to people who need them. Does the product work....?? I have a business client/collegue who is off to London to see Tony Robbins, the seats cost from £1000 - £5000 for a 4 day/ 30 hr seminar. He has already read all his books and got his CDs etc etc yet still feels the need to go for inspiration, clearly something therefore isn't working, unless your name is Tony Robbins.

 

[Mr D]

There are a lot of Tony Robbins fans around.

There are also motivational speakers who have had success in a different field and since moved on to motivational speaking.
According to Wikipedia Robbins used to promote Jim Rohn many years ago.

I've nothing against Tony Robbins. Cannot say I've come across his stuff very much.
So for you and I Mitch3473 he probably wouldn't be a good motivational speaker.
But for probably millions of other people? Yes.

 

[The next Steve Jobs]

The high prices quoted are seldom paid in full...its more of a Vanity/Marketing exercise


Reality =
Empty seats
bulk discount
paid shills
freebies
gift tickets
etc etc

Pre internet days, or should I say pre YouTube video channel days there was some 'cache' attached... the digital age has generally driven prices down and increased competition, lots more to see, and do....more ways to spend than ever before


IF we are talking about global celebrities at high quality high profile events then tickets may well justify 3 or 4 figure sums... armed vetted security team, venue hire, long distance travel for speakers with secure private accomadation etc etc

* ... want our core product to appear on your guest show, that will be a cool £ million ...im sure the that price will come done one day!

* I'm in the process of organising some historically unique, hands on tech shows, most of the tickets are sub £100, but some of them go as high as £5000 ... but that includes a VSP hamper overnight luxuary accommodation, evening drinks and a private dinner with an android or three!

 

[Prosperity]

Each to their own I suppose. I start the day by pitting some ct Fletcher or similar on before my gym... I then try and listen to some positive motivation be it robbins, Eric Brown jim rohn Louise hay Arnie is amazing . I think just getting yourself in the vibration of positivity genuinely helps well it does me. Would I go and spend thousand on a course.. prob not but does it do any damage listening to positivity. Definitely not. I met marwan koukash today. Genuinely an ibspiration so made the effort to introduce myself and speak to him.... there's nothing wrong with respecting people who are successful positive people get a lot more done than negative imo

 

[Caledonian TV]

There's a MASSIVE difference between an expert in some subject giving a talk - or lecture on their area of expertise; and a self-serving self-aggrandising side-show barker manipulating a crowds in much the same way a TV evangelist does... And that's invariably what can be seen when these guys set up camp and start their wittering.

The great cult of sunshine, lollipops and positivity and any and all costs is an absolute mind killer; for the simple reason it seeks to replace reality with delusion. - Pure, unadulterated, Emperor's new clothes. Something that is at the heart of much of the corruption and injustice i this world.

Being successful at being dishonest is of no more value to the world than being a fabulously skilled armed robber. - And these people are among the most dishonest human being alive today.

 

[Mr D]

There's a MASSIVE difference between an expert in some subject giving a talk - or lecture on their area of expertise; and a self-serving self-aggrandising side-show barker manipulating a crowds in much the same way a TV evangelist does... And that's invariably what can be seen when these guys set up camp and start their wittering.

The great cult of sunshine, lollipops and positivity and any and all costs is an absolute mind killer; for the simple reason it seeks to replace reality with delusion. - Pure, unadulterated, Emperor's new clothes. Something that is at the heart of much of the corruption and injustice i this world.

Being successful at being dishonest is of no more value to the world than being a fabulously skilled armed robber. - And these people are among the most dishonest human being alive today.

Yes there is a difference. And both can do motivational speaking.
Some you would pay to see happily - some you would not go if it was free.

Have heard several motivational speakers, never heard of this cult of positivity, sunshine, lollipops etc from any of them.

 

[Caledonian TV]

Have heard several motivational speakers, never heard of this cult of positivity, sunshine, lollipops etc from any of them.

And I rarely hear anything but that from them... Oh, it may be dressed up and hidden in some bespoke buzzword set, but it's always the same old same old; succour for the weak-minded lost souls, theirs is the way the truth and the light etc. etc. etc. ad nauseam.

Must go... I'm obviously being too negative; somebody in a sharp suit might smite me down!

 

[The next Steve Jobs]

I'm with Caledonian on this one

Chariots of the gods man...an interesting tale

but neither a mind opener or wallet opener 4 me!


I made pragmatic technology my religion long ago, it serves me well

 

[Prosperity]

Lol.
Why don't you say what you really think and stop sitting on the fence...
Positivity on its own will get you nowhere... mix it with Hard work and determination and it will.... a lot quicker than a negative person..
Also ct Fletcher is no fake. Arnie is no fake.. it do you just mean the more "popular ones" I too have never heard of this cult thing but equally we all have our own opinions

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

I think successful sports people that can talk well make good motivational speakers
Who wants to listen to someone boring You want to listen to people who have been in the deep end
At the end of the day this business game is only a sport anyway

 

[Mark T Jones]

It’s 100% Mindset- you might say a self fulfilling prophecy

If you are looking for motivation and inspiration, you will leave motivated and inspired

If you expect the ‘same old drivel’ you will hear the same old drivel and will have wasted your time and money.

 

[Caledonian TV]

Lol.
Why don't you say what you really think and stop sitting on the fence...
Positivity on its own will get you nowhere... mix it with Hard work and determination and it will.... a lot quicker than a negative person..
Also ct Fletcher is no fake. Arnie is no fake.. it do you just mean the more "popular ones" I too have never heard of this cult thing but equally we all have our own opinions

Ah... The old 'n' word! It always crops up... It's the way the truth and the light or else all evil will beset you. I have no requirement for a fence because I do think for myself; and don't need some Barnumite to sell me their magic beans.

This conflation of 'motivational speakers' with certain people who may have walked a walk is really quite amusing.

That, in itself - walking a walk I mean - may be of interest, and there might well be something to learn or take away but what these so-called 'motivational speakers', life coaches, NLP ninnies and other frauds do is seek to sell 'ready salted solutions' to the weak minded (as noted by the O/P); the ignorant and the rudderless. - No different from a side-show, only instead of bottled of 'Dr Good' it's books and DVDs ad seminars and... Whatever!

These people are no different from David Icke or Jimmy Swaggart or Alex Jones or... <Insert flim flam man here>! - Salt the plate with just a little bit of something that might make sense then build a full metal fairy story for people to buy into! And they will! Hallelujah praise the Lloyds bank all the way to which these guys are laughing!

I've never understood this propensity so many people have to prostrate themselves before vacuous tin gods - football teams, pop idols, plastic evangelists and so-called 'leee-daahs'.

It causes a combination of despair, amusement and bewilderment when I hear one of the 'faithfull' banging on about 'leedahhship' and how their quasi-religious pilgrimage was 'inspirational' and how they're going to apply the 'painting by numbers' lessons they've been taught and not forget to pre-purchase that latest DVD...

'Oooh how can I be more like the leeedah, how can I show more leeedahship? Must stay positive, musn't be negative (because that would balance out the inset message) musn't call out the naked Emperors, must be more like a 'leeedaaah'! Must say my affirmations/prayers/mantras else my mind might start wandering off and I could wind up thinking for myself! And that would never do!

Challenge them - and it's always always always the 'n' word in one shape or form...

It’s 100% Mindset- you might say a self fulfilling prophecy

If you are looking for motivation and inspiration, you will leave motivated and inspired

If you expect the ‘same old drivel’ you will hear the same old drivel and will have wasted your time and money.

...Which is true of all the religions mankind has created in order to control others.

'Motivational speaking' is quite a different and entirely separate thing from listening to a speaker who happens to be motivational or inspirational. 'Motivational speaking' is no more than the O/P suggested "a sharp suited and usually very wealthy salesman" standing in front of you delivering the snake-oil he has just sold you. - Not to be conflated or confused with the teaching and learning of cold hard facts and actually thinking for yourself.

...As for the old 'there are a lot of XYZ fans around; that's not a cogent argument for anything; at best it's merely an observation - and often a somewhat depressing one at that.

Apparently (worryingly) there are still a lot of Adolf Hitler fans around and quarters of the world where his popularity and that of his kind is on the rise. As well as being everything else he was quite the master of 'motivational speaking; almost the definition of it in fact. There are a lot of people who sincerely argue that the world is flat, and/or that any day now 144,000 of them (they being included in that number) are all going to be 'raptured' off the planet!!

Then there are the radicalisied who are - via 'motivational speaking' (and exactly the same linguistic and psychological techniques are used in radicalisation as are used by these so-calle 'life coaches' and their like) inspired to strap a series of bombs to themselves and end the lives of innocents...

Motivational speaking is simply another form of quasi-religious manipulation; it's about gaining command and control over people; stopping them from thinking for themselves - so that, once sold on the cultish mindset, they will keep buying the product or doing the will of the promoter.

The last thing the Tony Robbinses (and I use that name as an analogy for all of his kind) of this world is for people to become motivated towards anything rational or balanced or creative - because at that point they actually start thinking for themselves and abandon the religion... They stop buying the snake oil. They stop needing the chants and the mantras and the affirmations.

They stop trying to live their lives by rote. - Dangerous stuff!

 

[youngtrepreneur]

I'm with the OP on this.

There are a lot of people out there who have had some lower levels of success with their ventures, but then carry themselves as if they're a fountain of knowledge - yes, a 'guru'.
Realistically they mostly lack competitive originality, simply encouraging others to do what they did all those years ago but extrapolate on their own levels of success in order to exaggerate what has been or can be achieved.

I wouldn't listen to somebody who markets themselves as a motivational speaker.

With one exception.

Toby Willows from this very forum.

There is frankly no upper limit to the financial and personal sacrifice I would be prepared to make in order to have this fine fellow influence my career in self-employment.

Truly he is not just a master of the internet, but a business king.
Sorry, guru.

In moments of entrepreneurial inhibition, I pray for Toby to enter into my life in spirit and assist me, such is his power.

I think we should all take this opportunity to pay tribute to him.

 

[Caledonian TV]

...I think you should have pinned an irony meter to the bottom of that one!

 

[youngtrepreneur]

...I think you should have pinned an irony meter to the bottom of that one!

You mean to say that you're rejecting HIM?
On the day of judgement you will be accountable for this.

But there is time for you yet.
There is still time for you to open yourself to Toby and sincerely accept in your heart that he is the way and the truth.
That he is THE [business] guru.

During times that I've prayed for Toby to help, he's been there.
During times that I've prayed for Toby to shut up, he's still been there.
He never leaves our side, such is his enduring love for all of us.

The sacrifices he made, and continues to make, is absolute PROOF that he is the son of his father, and I urge you to accept this.

 

[Caledonian TV]

Sorry... I'm a strict Pastafarian!

 

[youngtrepreneur]

Sorry... I'm a strict Pastafarian!

Oh that's fine!

Next time you're having a bolognaise, interpret the spaghetti as being 'the body of HIM'.

Toby accepts from all walks of life

 

[Prosperity]

I genuinely stopped reading that half way through. Have a great day planned and don't have time to get into an internet debate.
That's the positivity in me ya see ;-)

 

[Caledonian TV]

That's the positivity in me ya see ;-)

Yawn, yes, of course it is...

Again, factually, you'll find - if you had the attention span and application to study the subject - that part of the conditioning achieved by religious and quasi-religious command and control systems is to 'tune out' anything that goes against 'the message'... Very much part of Hitler's technique (for instance) which, arguably gave us things like NLP. And very obvious in the rhetoric of all of these characters (that I have seen at least).

 

[fisicx]

I went to see Suggs (What a King Cnut) a couple of weeks back. He motivated me to go down the pub. So wins all round.

 

[Caledonian TV]

I went to see Suggs (What a King Cnut) a couple of weeks back. He motivated me to go down the pub. So wins all round.

Seems reasonable - both your assessment of him and your inspired actions I mean.

 

[Noah]

I wouldn't listen to somebody who markets themselves as a motivational speaker.

With one exception.

Toby Willows from this very forum.

Grow up.

 

[Mr D]

Yawn, yes, of course it is...

Again, factually, you'll find - if you had the attention span and application to study the subject - that part of the conditioning achieved by religious and quasi-religious command and control systems is to 'tune out' anything that goes against 'the message'... Very much part of Hitler's technique (for instance) which, arguably gave us things like NLP. And very obvious in the rhetoric of all of these characters (that I have seen at least).

So you won't benefit from hearing any motivational speaker by the sound of it.
Even the ones who do motivational speaking after achieving something.

May want to avoid the news, documentaries and quiz shows.

 

[youngtrepreneur]

Grow up.

?

It seems that you too think that I'm being ironic in my description of Toby, but I absolutely assure you I'm not.

I've been wrong when I've said anything in the past against Mr Willows, for I have now accepted him as my business guru.
You should do the same.

Peace

 

[Caledonian TV]

So you won't benefit from hearing any motivational speaker by the sound of it.
Even the ones who do motivational speaking after achieving something.

May want to avoid the news, documentaries and quiz shows.

In a word, cobblers! - I'm certainly bored witless by quiz shows; but then that's a matter of taste, and I've already made clear how much I despise snake-oil sellers. but, yet again the conflation isn't helpful or particularly relevant; there remains a chasm between those who speak about things of note - and those who simply talk (and this is NO a swear word) what is literally complete and utter b@ll@cks by way of 'motivational speech'.

I'm sure that if you had achieved something worthwhile - which probably doesn't include the results of psychologically abusing others - it would be better to stick the that subject. And as I'm actually trained and qualified as a news/documentary cameraman... and still do work in that sphere; it would hardly be helpful to avoid it now would it?

 

[Gecko001]

Many people just love to be told that they are not good enough and be in a room with 100's of other people who also like being told that they are not good enough.

 

[Mr D]

In a word, cobblers! - I'm certainly bored witless by quiz shows; but then that's a matter of taste, and I've already made clear how much I despise snake-oil sellers. but, yet again the conflation isn't helpful or particularly relevant; there remains a chasm between those who speak about things of note - and those who simply talk (and this is NO a swear word) what is literally complete and utter b@ll@cks by way of 'motivational speech'.

I'm sure that if you had achieved something worthwhile - which probably doesn't include the results of psychologically abusing others - it would be better to stick the that subject. And as I'm actually trained and qualified as a news/documentary cameraman... and still do work in that sphere; it would hardly be helpful to avoid it now would it?

So a guy who has survived child abuse standing up and speaking in a meeting for those who have endured similar is .... good or not good? Same guy stands up and speaks in a business meeting about the same subject - good or not good?
An alcoholic who is in AA speaking to a bunch of drunks? An ex drug user speaking to a bunch of drug users?
Motivational speaking is not always about someone achieving something. Can be experiences. Can be teaching people what to avoid.
Can be very simply - don't follow me.

We all learn from experience. Our own, other people's, what we see, what we hear. Not everything said by someone else means anything to us. What we experience for ourselves may well have a much bigger impact.

You are separating motivational speaking into two groups. One you accept and one you don't.
Someone else may share those two groups, may have different groups - someone you will listen to they may have zero interest in.

The groupings are artificial - how you classify them isn't the same as what everyone else does. What you would get from any one speech, any one meeting is up to you.

I'll leave you with this quote from a motivational speaker.
Agree with him, disagree with him, makes no difference to me. I happen to agree with him. A few may recognise who it is but that really doesn't make a difference to what is said does it?

You must take personal responsibility. You cannot change the circumstances, the seasons, or the wind, but you can change yourself. That is something you have charge of.

 

[Mr D]

Many people just love to be told that they are not good enough and be in a room with 100's of other people who also like being told that they are not good enough.

The evidence to date suggests you are right. In many places and circumstances.

 

[Prosperity]

@Caledonian TV I get you dont like these type of people but if they can help people to trigger in themselves the enthusiasm and motivation to progress themselves and their business to where it needs to be instead of meandering through life with out all the distraction of social media, news, forums etc isn't that a good thing. Is your business perfect in that there are no areas needed for improvement? Nothing you could have been doing as a more useful output of your time in here other than stating passionately your dislike for something or someone? Thats what i get from them tbh and my businesses have come on leaps and bounds and me personally

 

[Caledonian TV]

Classic!

Again with the conflation already! Which makes for an entirely vacuous straw-man argument! The examples you cite are wholly without relevance as they're not examples of 'motivational speaking' - i.e. some cheesy greasy slick salesman selling their way truth and life. - And so what? they have their getout clauses! Of course they do!

Followed closely by another acolyte indulging in deflection and projection; one of the first things a young police officer learns about when they're taught about interrogation and the validity of evidence. My business isn't the topic here... And, actually, I spent the afternoon fitting new front wheel bearings and brakes to to one of my cars; pausing to post only over the odd cup of tea!

It's not that I 'don't like' these people... I despise them in much the same way as I do drug dealers, child abusers, housebreakers, and bankrobbers. In fact I put them in the same 'class' - because they steal from people. They steal their money, they steal their time and they steal a grasp of reality from them. - They are, in that respect, Sociopaths and one of the root-causes of much that is wrong with this world.

 

[Prosperity]

But if you don't pay a single penny to them how can they be thieves. I regularly watch their YouTube videos and others with motivation on. Like I say it's cost me n it a penny I genuinely feel I've benefited from it. Always try and see things from a different perspective and be less judgemental and confrontational. It's worked for me personally. I wouldn't say Arnie was is a fake and he's one of my biggest motivators.. yet to have a dinner evening with him costs a fortune... but you can still get his advice for free on the internet. It's down to people's perception of what they deem acceptable I suppose. Undoubtedly there are many fakes out there but to tar them in the same leave as child abusers I genuinely think is OTT. Also im not a religious person at all makes no difference if you are or aren't but you don't have to be religious to follow these people

 

[The next Steve Jobs]

It is clear that our species has evolved to follow leaders

Even Adolf Hitler was surprised at the willingness of followers

Leaders can protect and guide us, but they can also lead us astray



* my day job is designing digital gods that will lead us all

* on my desk is the script of an epic hard sci fi movie ...

The theme if u like, is 'the trials and perils of leadership' in the 35th century.
The main characters are deity class androids, one of them is sat across the room from me as I type, a 21st century prototype yes, but a real steel reminder nonetheless...and she's is NOT alone

Herding humans is oft akin to herding cats,
sometimes they follow, sometimes they unfollow

Consider the ant, study her ways and be wise

 

[Caledonian TV]

But if you don't pay a single penny to them how can they be thieves.

I repeat...

...because they steal from people. They steal their money, they steal their time and they steal a grasp of reality from them. - They are, in that respect, Sociopaths and one of the root-causes of much that is wrong with this world.

I once had the misfortune to work in a place where the head of HR was very keen on this cult... And to put the 'tin lid' on it, she was a keen 'student' and practitioner of NLP. It percolated right the way through her 'work'.

The woman was a corporate thug... She would devastate a family, expose them to homelessness and hunger without giving it a second thought. Occasionally she could be found dancing round her office to 'Take That' because one of these vacuous gurus had recommended such behaviour as a means of getting to her "happy place"... Chants, mantras, buzzwords - the teachings of a few of the individuals mentioned here.

She'd try it on with everyone as she wielded her scythe like the grim reaper. There were a couple of suicides, one man dropped dead at work with a heart attack from the stress and devastation she caused. The decent 'old school' girls from 'Personnel' as was left to run a bar in Spain; so sick of this harpy were they. - She 'inspired' more than one nervous breakdown.

About a third of the staff were 'under the doctor' and on medication with stress, another third were only holding it together by snorting a certain white powder regularly; alcoholism was rife.

Still she danced, still she chanted... Still she affirmed. She was part of the 'team' that finally lead to over 70 years of history being consigned to the scrap heap as the organisation was asset stripped and ceased to exist. She's still ruining lives now.

I recall telling her to her blindly-grinning face- shortly before handing in my own notice - when she started trying her 'neuro linguistic' bunkum and 'you''re so negative' bull on me, that I'd might have rather more respect for her if she kept a black cat and a cauldron in her office... She had no counter! - That was just before the paramedics were called to another staff member not yet in their 50s (who thankfully didn't die this time) who had collapsed from a stroke... Another life ruined. But hey ho! Another day another motivational mantra.

As I said... Because they steal from people. Often things much more valuable than mere money.

 

[The next Steve Jobs]

FILMS that deal with leadership, power and society aka motivational leaders

Blade runner

1984

Brave new world

The shape of things to come

Cloud atlas

2001

Animal Farm

Brazil

Logan's Run

The time machine

The man who would be king

Waking Life

Downfall

Scum

Quadrophenia

Breaking Glass

Dr Strangelove

Cosmos ( sagan)

Survivors (1970s tv series)



Must add:

Alexander
Divergent
The deer hunter
Lord of war
Warriors
The omega man (heston)
Planet of the apes ( heston)
An education
Gattica
Boca
Bicentennial man
She
A.I.

The idea here is not an extensive list, but a quick pick of some great films you might have missed.... If the above is to heavy, I suggest starting with Barbarella Queen if the galaxy and ending with TLOS

 

[Mr D]

FILMS that deal with leadership and society aka motivational leaders

Blade runner

1984

Brave new world

The shape of things to come

Cloud atlas

2001

Animal Farm

Brazil

The time machine

The man who would be king

Downfall

Scum

Cosmos ( sagan)

The Princess Bride
Carry on up the jungle
Carry on up the Khyber
Taps
The Last Samurai

Hey you know what, people appear to like the films mentioned. Go figure.

 

[Mr D]

It is clear that our species has evolved to follow leaders

Even Adolf Hitler was surprised at the willingness of followers

Leaders can protect and guide us, but they can also lead us astray



* my day job is designing digital gods that will lead us all

* on my desk is the script of an epic hard sci fi movie ...

The theme if u like, is 'the trials and perils of leadership' in the 35th century.
The main characters are deity class androids, one of them is sat across the room from me as I type, a 21st century prototype yes, but a real steel reminder nonetheless...and she's is NOT alone

Herding humans is oft akin to herding cats,
sometimes they follow, sometimes they unfollow

Consider the ant, study her ways and be wise

Your day job appears to be quite broad.
Mine is much smaller and apparently with less hassle.

 

[Caledonian TV]

Your day job appears to be quite broad.
Mine is much smaller and apparently with less hassle.

...and your point is? - I once worked in a place; I don't work there now because I had enough of the psychos on the 5th floor and handed in my notice. That place doesn't exist any more because the psychos on the 5th floor asset-stripped it, crashed and burned it. - Simples! And depressingly common these days.

My actual day job (that one I spoke about was never more than part-time) - my main occupation -involves running a real business in the real world... No gurus required! Again, simples!