Looking into freelance web design

[ukipodearphones]

Hello all

I'm looking into turning my skills into money. I've been coding websites for 8 years as a hobby. This includes

HTML
CSS
Photoshop
PHP
SQL
flash - Alittle here and there
javascript - Not so experienced as the other coding languages though i learn depending on what i want to achieve.

Examples of my websites.
http://rozzex.com
http://moneymerchantsempire.com

As money problems get worse i have decided to take on some freelance jobs. I have created this thread for 2 reasons. To find out what everyone's opinions are for the best way to find work and for offers from those who are seeking a web development job.

cheers

 

[herodigital]

both of those websites are built in tables, not CSS.

on the basis on this alone, i would suggest you learn the trade a little more before venturing into it as a full time business

 

[ukipodearphones]

thank you for your reply. I have actually got a national diploma in a web development coarse. I think your missing out what CSS is. CSS is a styling scripting language. HTML is a mark up language. Basically CSS is used to style the mark up. CSS does not create any stable objects such as tables they style these objects. If your looking into the source code of my sites you'll see that style="" is used and this is inline css rather then in a seperate .css file extension. I use my .css file to do more generalization styling and inline CSS for more specific stuff like dimensions etc

So thank you for your message but just to clear things up, it is impossible to code a site on CSS alone. HTML creates the visuals CSS styles them.

 

[Vision2]

you get that diploma from someone emailing you it?

You should learn how to code sites properly, and the proper use of CSS.

tables are for tabular data.

www.w3schools.com/css good source of learning.

Your hosting is also insanely shocking, as well as that flash site is entirely useless.

You should listen to the previous person and learn the trade before taking on projects.

 

[Faevilangel]

thank you for your reply. I have actually got a national diploma in a web development coarse. I think your missing out what CSS is. CSS is a styling scripting language. HTML is a mark up language. Basically CSS is used to style the mark up. CSS does not create any stable objects such as tables they style these objects. If your looking into the source code of my sites you'll see that style="" is used and this is inline css rather then in a seperate .css file extension. I use my .css file to do more generalization styling and inline CSS for more specific stuff like dimensions etc

So thank you for your message but just to clear things up, it is impossible to code a site on CSS alone. HTML creates the visuals CSS styles them.

What Hero was meant your website is coded in <table>'s and not div's. A table is for tabular data (hence the name) and not for structuring a website. It's now recommended to code using divs. Also using flash for a website is bad practise, they are extremely unreliable and offer minimal search engine benefits. You can do a lot of flash techniques now using javascript which is so much lighter and better.

Also it's common practise to put all your styling in the seperate css. This makes your code easier to read, easier to update a website and makes me happy

Based on them 2 sites, you have a LOT to learn about web development IMHO. Have a gander through www.w3schools.com to get to grips with divs and css. It will save you so much time in building the site from general coding and to bug fixing.

Good luck

 

[Deleted member 59730]

Perhaps a 3 year course studying graphic design at an art college would help.

 

[ukipodearphones]

first off thank you for your comments. I understand what you mean by tables now. I know they are bad practice and i try to stay away from them. As you would with driving a car you pick up bad habits over the years and inline styling it one of mine. Also as for the table's i've basically used them for when i need to column certain areas. Such as menu and main area for money merchants empire. They might be a bad practice for text to speech readers though i don't intend that site to be used with such software as alot of the information displayed can be displayed in image form. i'm alittle confused what you mean by flash site as i only use one bit of flash in rozzex and none at all in money merchants empire. I feel my bad habits are comming back on me as i used to use nothing but div's.

 

[Faevilangel]

first off thank you for your comments. I understand what you mean by tables now. I know they are bad practice and i try to stay away from them. As you would with driving a car you pick up bad habits over the years and inline styling it one of mine. Also as for the table's i've basically used them for when i need to column certain areas. Such as menu and main area for money merchants empire. They might be a bad practice for text to speech readers though i don't intend that site to be used with such software as alot of the information displayed can be displayed in image form. i'm alittle confused what you mean by flash site as i only use one bit of flash in rozzex and none at all in money merchants empire. I feel my bad habits are comming back on me as i used to use nothing but div's.

the money site is a full on flash site (flash loader etc)

columns can be done with css & html, by setting the css for the column as a float e.g. float:left;
The only time tables are recommended is when you need to put tabular data.

 

[ukipodearphones]

float's are bad practice. You won't ever get float working in every browser. I know tables arn't recommended. position absolute is probably more fitting but doesn't work in cases of full screen sites rather then centerd sites. also look again ad the source code money merchants empire is html, css, javascript and php. The loader is a javascript loader.

 

[Kernowman]

If you are looking for ome occasional freelance work, check out www.peopleperhour.com

There is usually plenty of requests for website creation and updating

 

[Faevilangel]

float's are bad practice. You won't ever get float working in every browser. I know tables arn't recommended. position absolute is probably more fitting but doesn't work in cases of full screen sites rather then centerd sites. also look again ad the source code money merchants empire is html, css, javascript and php. The loader is a javascript loader.

Never had any issues with floats as long as you code them right What you need to do is create an outer div for the columns e.g.

 <div id="wrapper">
  <div class="column" id="left">
  </div>
  <div class="column" id="middle">
  </div>
  <div class="column" id="right">
  </div>
</div>

Give the wrapper div a set width of all 3 of the columns + the margins.

 

[ukipodearphones]

Thank you kernowman. This is just the kind of advice i was looking for. i'll take a look at this now

cheers

@faevilangel - thanks for the advice, i'll take better care of other peoples site's and stay away from tables and inline css. I just fall into bad habits when coding my own sites

 

[Faevilangel]

Thank you kernowman. This is just the kind of advice i was looking for. i'll take a look at this now

cheers

From someone who freelances, don't even think about it. You will be setting yourself up for a big fall. Get the right skills, get your coding spot on before even thinking about applying for jobs.

 

[ukipodearphones]

i think your taking things out of context. first off you haven't actually told me anything i didn't already know. like all bad habit's they can be knocked

 

[Vision2]

float's are bad practice. You won't ever get float working in every browser. I know tables arn't recommended. position absolute is probably more fitting but doesn't work in cases of full screen sites rather then centerd sites. also look again ad the source code money merchants empire is html, css, javascript and php. The loader is a javascript loader.

That's not true, floats and absolute positioning is dependent on the situation you are using them for.

The point at which things go tits up cross browser is down to the coder not doing it properly and resorting to hacks in order to get the end result which isn't needed.

You have to learn to code basically.

 

[Vision2]

If you are looking for ome occasional freelance work, check out www.peopleperhour.com

There is usually plenty of requests for website creation and updating

Those kind of sites are a waste of time, full of indians bidding crazy amounts. Then those clients end up having a bodged site and moan.

Not worth the hassle.

 

[ukipodearphones]

thank you for your advice vision. I appreciate what you are saying though but cross browser coding isn't as straight forward as coding properly. For example IE has its own CSS regulations when most other browsers are using CSS 2 and above. At the end of the day i find IE to be the troublesome one when it comes to CSS

 

[B_Dodd]

check out http://www.freelancer.com/

I used it a couple of time to outsource jobs for my new website (still in development stages)

Although like others have mentioned, maybe touch up on your skills first.

Websites like http://www.freelancer.com/ are gold mines for people who have the correct skills.

 

[mobyme]

i think your taking things out of context. first off you haven't actually told me anything i didn't already know. like all bad habit's they can be knocked

I think he is being incredibly kind. You are never going to get anybody to pay you good money at your present skill level. Take another look at your header at rozzex.com
Remember you are the one who put these forward as an example of your work.

 

[Vision2]

thank you for your advice vision. I appreciate what you are saying though but cross browser coding isn't as straight forward as coding properly. For example IE has its own CSS regulations when most other browsers are using CSS 2 and above. At the end of the day i find IE to be the troublesome one when it comes to CSS

Again, not true Most issues cross browser is due to people not knowing how to code CSS properly. Majority of issues can be avoided and also designed properly.

 

[ukipodearphones]

@d_bodd - I looked at freelancer.com earlier it seems to have fierce competition.

@mobyme - I appreciate what people are saying, though i don't think people are listening to what i have been saying. I understand that these two sites arn't the best designs you have ever seen though they are my only current hosted sites. I can code to w3schools standards though i haven't done so for a very long time as i've slowly seen the decrease of people actually caring about this. People are more interested in functionality these days. i will start getting my code validated if this is the definition of being able to code.

 

[ukipodearphones]

i agree vision, every problem has a solution. When i started learning coding i did everything in tables. Then i started coding completely in div's and for these past two sites i've started using tables again. I think these days i'm taking short cuts with my CSS and html to spend more time on the PHP. I think i may have to create a new example

 

[Vision2]

Code validation is merely a guide to a codes quality, and how clean it is.

You can have valid code and still look bodged. But this is where learning css comes. w3schools basically, good site to learn off.

Problem i'm seeing with all your comments is you make a excuse for each thing, rather than just taking it for what it is and moving on / learning from it.

It's not down to the client to validate your code, or work out if you are good or not because they simply don't know. They are clueless, it's about you taking pride in what you do and giving a good job to your client which is what so many people seem to be completly lacking these days.

 

[ukipodearphones]

I completely understand where your coming from and appreciate everyone's comments. I'm not excusing myself from any of the bad practices i've used for these two sites. I'm just desperately trying to explain i can code and to a standard any client would be proud to own. I know i haven't showed this but you've all made me think about where i could have gone wrong when coding a client's website, as i'm clearly taking shortcuts when i shouldn't. I am going to start creating a simple design which i can use as an example here as it will also help in the future

cheers

 

[Faevilangel]

I completely understand where your coming from and appreciate everyone's comments. I'm not excusing myself from any of the bad practices i've used for these two sites. I'm just desperately trying to explain i can code and to a standard any client would be proud to own. I know i haven't showed this but you've all made me think about where i could have gone wrong when coding a client's website, as i'm clearly taking shortcuts when i shouldn't. I am going to start creating a simple design which i can use as an example here as it will also help in the future

cheers

I can tell people I own google and I am Bill Gates' brother but without proof, no one will believe me. Your websites are your proof you can do what you say you can, hence why from your current "work" I will say you're not ready for commercial work.

I would create a portfolio site with some work on, show off your "skills"... without the above you won't get anywhere.

 

[ukipodearphones]

thank your for your reply faevilangel. I am currently working on a new website to hold what you have stated. thank you all for pushing me in the right direction. I will let you know when i have something to show

cheers

 

[WebWizard]

Best of luck!

Hope all goes good for you Need any advice or help let us know!

 

[ukipodearphones]

thank you very much webwizard i'll keep you updated with any progress. Cheers for the support

 

[herodigital]

@d_bodd - I looked at freelancer.com earlier it seems to have fierce competition.

@mobyme - I appreciate what people are saying, though i don't think people are listening to what i have been saying. I understand that these two sites arn't the best designs you have ever seen though they are my only current hosted sites. I can code to w3schools standards though i haven't done so for a very long time as i've slowly seen the decrease of people actually caring about this. People are more interested in functionality these days. i will start getting my code validated if this is the definition of being able to code.

i think you are absolutely trying to wing it now. i will be straight with you - you do not appear to have any idea of the concept of semantic markup. you claim to have knowledge of w3c standards yet havent adhered to them in a very long time - why? standards are progressive. if you understood them you would know why they exist and why you should follow them. you certainly would not regress back to designing and writing markup like a n00b...

 

[Astaroth]

All the freelancing sites have "fierce competition". The "problem" with the web design industry is that there are such low barriers to entry. Someone can download a hacked version of Dreamweaver and a week later claim that they are a web designer and start selling their "experties" at $3 an hour.

Once you become established on these sites then a moderate income can be generated, you do however need to be very selective about your clients and how much time you spend on bidding/ answering queries. As there is nothing binding on the clients a lot of projects are purely speculative to get an idea of costs rather than any real intention of awarding the contract.

 

[wevet]

Hello all

I'm looking into turning my skills into money. I've been coding websites for 8 years as a hobby. This includes

HTML
CSS
Photoshop
PHP
SQL
flash - Alittle here and there
javascript - Not so experienced as the other coding languages though i learn depending on what i want to achieve.

Examples of my websites.
http://rozzex.com
http://moneymerchantsempire.com

As money problems get worse i have decided to take on some freelance jobs. I have created this thread for 2 reasons. To find out what everyone's opinions are for the best way to find work and for offers from those who are seeking a web development job.

cheers

try peoplebythhour.com or guru.com as a source of work. Though the advice to get your technical skills up to par is very valid.

 

[ukipodearphones]

thank you all for your reply's. You've all gave me very useful advice. Hero digital i know why they are there and i used to follow these rules quite intensely. Like i explained earlier i started to see that validation seem's to be less important to web developers. As i code for my own uses i spend less time on my html taking shortcuts and writing messy code so i can get on and get my ideas into PHP coding. I understand where everyone is coming from and appreciate the criticism. Though i am working on a portfolio site as a new example as these two sites are extremely bad examples of my html coding.

 

[herodigital]

thank you all for your reply's. You've all gave me very useful advice. Hero digital i know why they are there and i used to follow these rules quite intensely. Like i explained earlier i started to see that validation seem's to be less important to web developers. As i code for my own uses i spend less time on my html taking shortcuts and writing messy code so i can get on and get my ideas into PHP coding. I understand where everyone is coming from and appreciate the criticism. Though i am working on a portfolio site as a new example as these two sites are extremely bad examples of my html coding.

no offence but i dont think you understand. i really don't believe that you "once coded to w3c standards but now don't"... it doesnt happen. and as for standards becoming LESS important?!?! not the case. in face the gap between standards-aware developers and their lesser counterparts is widening. you need to make sure you're on the right side.

 

[ukipodearphones]

i know you don't believe me as do many people who have commented. This is a good thing in my opinion as i'm in the process of creating a portfolio. At the end of the day it's my word against yours. There's no point me explaining i can code to standards, i need to prove it.

 

[altwebdesign]

you get that diploma from someone emailing you it?

You should learn how to code sites properly, and the proper use of CSS.

tables are for tabular data.

www.w3schools.com/css good source of learning.

Your hosting is also insanely shocking, as well as that flash site is entirely useless.

You should listen to the previous person and learn the trade before taking on projects.

im with you on this, tables are for tabular data!

 

[ukipodearphones]

i know i've gone terribly wrong by using these two sites as examples. Though all this criticism will turn into a positive for me which will only make me better. So thank you for this

 

[S-Marketing]

i know i've gone terribly wrong by using these two sites as examples. Though all this criticism will turn into a positive for me which will only make me better. So thank you for this

I wish you every success with it. I have just read the whole thread and you have conducted yourself with perfect manners and grace, despite getting a lot of stick. Think a lot of members would have got in a strop, traded a few insults with people, and disappeared by now.

Your sites are rubbish but i'm sure you will get there in the end.

As I said, best of luck with it.

 

[altwebdesign]

i know i've gone terribly wrong by using these two sites as examples. Though all this criticism will turn into a positive for me which will only make me better. So thank you for this

The perfect attitude.
The perfect statement that will take you far!

 

[herodigital]

i know you don't believe me as do many people who have commented. This is a good thing in my opinion as i'm in the process of creating a portfolio. At the end of the day it's my word against yours. There's no point me explaining i can code to standards, i need to prove it.

ok, i await your portfolio website with intrigue

 

[ukipodearphones]

thank you all for your comments i really appreciate it. I understand that i will have to work hard to turn my passion into a living. I am going to create a portfolio design around a theme system. I will post the link once i've finished my first theme.

thank you all