Help! Customer damaged an item when trying it on...

[Tantrum]

Hello, has anyone had this problem before?

In my clothes shop today a woman tried on a skirt that was too small and got stuck. Her boyfriend ripped open the zip to get her out - totally unnecessarily! - before I could step in to intervene and get her out without damaging the item.

She's saying now the zip was faulty - which it wasn't - and has refused to either pay or give her details. Is she legally obliged to hand over her details so I can take her to the small claims court? If she is and doesn't what can I do?

Thanks!

 

[Tej]

Its a zip... should be easy to fix. ( even if you put a new one in)..

What was the value of the skirt?

LOL.. small claims court!!

 

[Tantrum]

LOL.. small claims court!![/QUOTE]
You can scoff but this is happening too often now - it seems like consumers have loads of rights but small businesses have none!

I know it's extreme, but this woman had the nerve to try and complain about me to the shopping centre management where I am because I tried to make her pay, trying to damage my standing with them. It's a matter of principle now because this sort of thing is happening over and over thanks to bigger stores which allow people to treat their stock like dirt, when small businesses like mine can't afford to absorb these costs! The skirt is badly ripped and can't be repaired.

If she'd been at all apologetic and her boyfriend hadn't wilfully damaged it I wouldn't be so bothered. Imagine someone came into your business premises and deliberately knocked your computer monitor onto the floor!

 

[Tej]

Its going to cost you unneccessary grief.. time.. and money.. and yes.. consumers rights are really loaded unfortunately... sleep on it.. you'll feel better in the morning... as you will chalk it up to experience... as you say, if she had apologised you would not have bothered.

It ain't worth it. Cut your nose to spite..etc.

Principles are only good if you are not hungry... no point in throwing a "tantrum".

( sorry.. couldn't resist)

IMHO

 

[Tantrum]

Its going to cost you unneccessary grief.. time.. and money.. and yes.. consumers rights are really loaded unfortunately... sleep on it.. you'll feel better in the morning... as you will chalk it up to experience... as you say, if she had apologised you would not have bothered.

It ain't worth it. Cut your nose to spite..etc.

Principles are only good if you are not hungry... no point in throwing a "tantrum".

( sorry.. couldn't resist)

IMHO

Haha yes I know what you mean...I'll sleep on it but ARGHHHHHH! I'm so annoyed! I'm normally really easy-going - after nearly 13 years of running a shop I have to be. Looks like I won't be letting anyone try on any clothes that even look remotely too small for them...
If any one has any experiences of how they've got compensation from a customer they could share I'd be grateful though as this is happening more and more, items are getting damaged more frequently! I'm sure I'm not the only business suffering from this as the population gets "larger", and it is frustrating getting advice like the above when this is not just a one off occurrence any more - if I lost an item like this through theft every week I'd be shut soon, why should this be any different? It is as though this woman has stolen the item but I appear to have less rights than if she actually had...

 

[Tej]

you have no chance of getting compensation from a customer!!!.. Its easier to get struck by lightning .. without really trying

Way of the world unfortunately

Hopefully you can repair the damage and make something out of it.

Good luck

 

[skyhi2]

How are/were you going to take things further with the customer if she refused to give you her details ?

My advice would be to keep the changing facilities locked,and only allow customers to try things on when you have " vetted " them for compatability with the garments.

Skyhi2.

 

[Bri]

We used to have a similar problem where women would come and try gear on and leave make up stains on the garments, we ended up putting up posters around the shop that this would not be tolerated, we even supplied a scarf that they could put on. We had high value specialist sports clothing and made sure that the item would be charged for if found to be damaged during fitting other than in the prescence of a member of staff.

 

[The Resolver]

Boyfriend ripping off skirt? Sounds like a bit of a damsel-in distress-rescue fetish going on here. To answer the specific questions:-

1. No you cannot require them to give name and contact details.

2. ...but if you come by them, then yes she/he is liable if she/he did not take reasonable care.

3. If someone intentionally rips up your clothing then this is criminal damage and you can call in Mr Plod (but don't lock her in the shop until he calls as if a conviction does not follow then you are liable to compensate for wrongful arrest).

4. If you took any action whatsover to protect yourself in the future, eg requiring ID before allowing people to try clothes on, then the result will be far, far less people trying clothes on and thus buying from you. Any such policy would, therefore, be a net loss.

 

[stugster]

The papers would love it.

"Small business owner takes customer to the courts over a faulty zip"

Choose that path only if you want to close up shop now.

 

[thevaliant]

I would just be inclined not to sell to that customer in future. She's probably already bad mouthed you to her friends/family so no further loss there. It might make you feel better.

 

[Tantrum]

The papers would love it.

"Small business owner takes customer to the courts over a faulty zip"

Choose that path only if you want to close up shop now.

Hmmm if you'd have read the rest of the thread it's not just the zip the whole skirt is a right off, but thanks for the useful comments...
As other retailers have said above this is happening more and more, maybe the asking for id idea above is worth a try because signs don't help at all - thanks to everyone who was constructive in their help!
Maybe I can get the local paper interested in a story about "retailers stress - the other side of the story..."!

 

[stugster]

Well, who's the paper going to believe? Someone who creates an easy story for them or the retailer who has a boring story that could potentially cause a backlash with the readers?

All I'm saying is that by taking things further, you're only causing yourself grief.

ID cards? Waste of time. I'd never even dream of stepping foot in a shop that wanted ME - a paying customer - to give them any sort of personal details before I'd even sniffed around.

ID cards to try on clothes? Get real. All you'd be doing is guaranteeing a massive loss of customers.


Cost of skirt to replace it without moanin: £50?
Cost of lost customers as a result of communising the whole affair: >£10,000? just a guess mind.

 

What kind of shop are you? What price range do you sell? Is bottom end, middle end, or high end priced stuff? If you are mid-high end what about being friendly and assisting customers (i'm not saying you aren't / don't by the way)?

I wouldn't take offence if someone said to me "just to let you know that skirt is a really small fitting, not sure if it's wrongly sized! I've got it and i had to get a size XX (add on 2 sizes to your normal size)"

 

[Zeno]

What kind of shop are you? What price range do you sell? Is bottom end, middle end, or high end priced stuff? If you are mid-high end what about being friendly and assisting customers (i'm not saying you aren't / don't by the way)?

I wouldn't take offence if someone said to me "just to let you know that skirt is a really small fitting, not sure if it's wrongly sized! I've got it and i had to get a size XX (add on 2 sizes to your normal size)"

In my (considerable...) experience of women, ANY attempt to say anything along the lines of "Don't you think you need a bigger size?" no matter how tactful will be met with hostlie stares, indignation and very possibly broken arms.

 

[Tantrum]

Well, who's the paper going to believe? Someone who creates an easy story for them or the retailer who has a boring story that could potentially cause a backlash with the readers?

All I'm saying is that by taking things further, you're only causing yourself grief.

ID cards? Waste of time. I'd never even dream of stepping foot in a shop that wanted ME - a paying customer - to give them any sort of personal details before I'd even sniffed around.

ID cards to try on clothes? Get real. All you'd be doing is guaranteeing a massive loss of customers.


Cost of skirt to replace it without moanin: £50?
Cost of lost customers as a result of communising the whole affair: >£10,000? just a guess mind.

So what are you saying people have a right to do whatever they like to my stock that I've paid for? People need to take responsibility for their own actions and according to Trading Standards customers have a "duty of care" to our stock as much as we do to their safety.

£10,000 - that's a bit of an overstatement isn't it really? £30 to go to the small claims court when some of our items are worth more than £300. Why's she going to go to the press when she's deliberately torn our item because she's too fat? Makes her look pretty stupid.
She'd be quick enough to take us to the small claims court for other reasons.
We've had more stuff damaged this week because of make up stains and I'm getting fed up with it - who can sustain damages of £100+ every week? I don't want to give up my business but I think from the responses above shop keepers are pretty fed up with idiots who treat our stuff like cr*p! I'm waiting for a callback from Trading Standards to find out our exact rights - I'll keep you posted!

 

[Tantrum]

What kind of shop are you? What price range do you sell? Is bottom end, middle end, or high end priced stuff? If you are mid-high end what about being friendly and assisting customers (i'm not saying you aren't / don't by the way)?

I wouldn't take offence if someone said to me "just to let you know that skirt is a really small fitting, not sure if it's wrongly sized! I've got it and i had to get a size XX (add on 2 sizes to your normal size)"

Hmm yes we've tried saying "do you think that's the right size" and being nice but sometimes you have to be harsh 'cos people are a bit delusional! I've even tried saying that I've tried it on and it doesn't fit!
We do give a lot of personal attention to our customers and we like most of them! Because we are in a niche market (corsets etc) we get a fair number of people coming in to try on stuff just to be daring and take the mickey as well...

 

In my (considerable...) experience of women, ANY attempt to say anything along the lines of "Don't you think you need a bigger size?" no matter how tactful will be met with hostlie stares, indignation and very possibly broken arms.

Ah but thats why i added the personal insult to myself in there! This would only be done if i had managed to strike up a little bit of a rapour

 

Hmm yes we've tried saying "do you think that's the right size" and being nice but sometimes you have to be harsh 'cos people are a bit delusional! I've even tried saying that I've tried it on and it doesn't fit!

But if you said that to me i would be offended, really offended!

Scenario.....i walk into your shop, have a nose around, i spot you and you are well-dressed, nice figure and obviously a size 8. You have made small talk with me, asking me am i looking for something for a particular occassion, you've commented on my bag etc and then i pick up a skirt i like.........you then say to me "just to let you know that skirt is a really small fitting, not sure if it's wrongly sized! I've got it and i had to get a size 12!)" - i am not offended and as i registered previously that you are about a size 8 i immediately think, god i best get the next size up! I come out, the skirt fits i buy it and thank you for the advice and you say "Told you they were wrongly sized! I just cut the label out of mine!".

 

[Zeno]

What I find fascinating is that not only do different shops (and ranges within shops) have different sizes (I scoffed at this for years but turns out its true) but we actually accept this.

What is the bloody point of standardised sizes if they are not standard? Shouldn't a wee man with a clipboard & a tape measure come round and check like everything else in the UK?

But I digress. Sorry.

 

[Tantrum]

I've tried doing that too - saying that I couldn't even get it over my bum etc, but that backfires when they look at me and say "oh well I'll try it on anyway" 'cos then they're implying that they're thinner than me! I think sometimes you just can't win!

 

What I find fascinating is that not only do different shops (and ranges within shops) have different sizes (I scoffed at this for years but turns out its true) but we actually accept this.

What is the bloody point of standardised sizes if they are not standard? Shouldn't a wee man with a clipboard & a tape measure come round and check like everything else in the UK?

But I digress. Sorry.

No i agree with you Zeno.......i tend to buy clothes from places such as Next, Marks & Spencer as their sizes seem pretty standard. Designer clothes are IMO very small fitting

 

[Tantrum]

It also depends where you get your stuff from, we've suppliers from Europe and America and they are all so different! We try to measure everything and put the measurements on the labels but honestly who really knows their exact waist size?

 

I've tried doing that too - saying that I couldn't even get it over my bum etc, but that backfires when they look at me and say "oh well I'll try it on anyway" 'cos then they're implying that they're thinner than me! I think sometimes you just can't win!

I suppose us woman are a strange species! I don't know what you can do then......just try rephrasing it in as many different ways as possible.

Do your hangers have sizes on them or just the clothes? If your hangers have sizes on them then why not put them on the wrong hangers? The amount of times i've been shopping and this has happened has been untrue - but in my case i pick up what i think is my size and when i've got all my clothes off i realise it is 3 sizes too small! Grrrrrr. So if you put a size 12 on a 10 hanger they may not notice?

 

[Jenni384]

but honestly who really knows their exact waist size?

More to the point, why do we need to know? Everything is hipster these days - I can't think of anything I own that sits round my waist

 

[Zeno]

More to the point, why do we need to know? Everything is hipster these days - I can't think of anything I own that sits round my waist

I have noticed that I don't seem to be wearing my breeks round my waist anymore but in the other direction from you. Few more years and they will be up to my arm pits.

Mind you, I'd sooner that than those tight jeans that the kids are wearing. Jesus wept, they look like they have just been in the ballet!

What kind of man would wear something like that? Course their hair is too long too. Bring back National Service I say.

 

[Jenni384]

I have noticed that I don't seem to be wearing my breeks round my waist anymore but in the other direction from you. Few more years and they will be up to my arm pits.

Ah, a Simon Cowell fanboy are you?!

 

[stugster]

So what are you saying people have a right to do whatever they like to my stock that I've paid for? People need to take responsibility for their own actions and according to Trading Standards customers have a "duty of care" to our stock as much as we do to their safety.

By no means am I saying it's right that customers get away with it, but you're in a position where as a retailer "cusotmer comes first" and all that crap. If you go about demanding forms of ID from your customers, they'll vote with their feet and go elsewhere.

I would absolutely love to see businesses getting the same rights as consumers (maybe in this case they do), but the biggest "law" is the law of word-of-mouth. Without the customers coming in, you're not going to make any sales (or get any damaged items I suppose).

How do you challenge it in court when the customer turns around and says the goods weren't fit for purpose? That they gave away without a lot of force?

How much TIME is this all going to take? Lets say one item a week gets destroyed by those bugg3r-lugs, that's going to be at least an hour for each one just sorting the paperwork to make the claim - completely ignoring the time in court/addressing the issue via mail if the customer doesn't claim liability (which most of those lot wont).

The only suitable suggestion I really have for you is to include the cost of shrinkage (theft, not substandard clothing!) and damage by customers in your product costs. Spread over all your items, that wont be much of a price hike.

 

[Zeno]

Ah, a Simon Cowell fanboy are you?!

It will happen to you too young lady.

Watch out for whatever the female equivalent of finding yourself keeping an off cut of wood because it will come in handy to stir paint with.

 

[Beachcomber]

What I find fascinating is that not only do different shops (and ranges within shops) have different sizes (I scoffed at this for years but turns out its true) but we actually accept this.

What is the bloody point of standardised sizes if they are not standard? Shouldn't a wee man with a clipboard & a tape measure come round and check like everything else in the UK?

I always thought the disparity in sizes between shops was a claver marketing ploy.

If a woman is usually a size 16 but can get into size 14 clothes from a particular store - what are the chances she will get most of her clothes from that store?

 

[Zeno]

I always thought the disparity in sizes between shops was a claver marketing ploy.

If a woman is usually a size 16 but can get into size 14 clothes from a particular store - what are the chances she will get most of her clothes from that store?

That's an interesting point but I suppose if it were that we would be on to negative sizes by now as they all tried to compete with each other.

 

[Charlie B ACS]

How about a small sign saying, "you break it, you buy it" or words to that effect.

On the Clothing size issue, as a married man I dread this, you're shopping, and you can find the most beautiful garment, that fits like a glove, but if it comes up small, and is marked as a 12, not a 10 then theres no way she would buy it! When that conversation comes up, best advice is to crawl awy & hide!

 

[Tej]

I think you guys should stop posting between shop opening hours.. else the OP will be too busy answering posts rather than making sure customers don't get the wrong sizes to try on..... you don't want to be responsible for another zipedeedodah!

 

[Zeno]

How about a small sign saying, "you break it, you buy it" or words to that effect.

Roundly ignored and entirely unenforceable both practically and legally.

 

[Cobby]

A bag of handmade breadsticks picked up by a child and ravaged until it's a bag of crumbs. The parent will chuckle and wistfully comment, "aaahh, kids hey?" and make no motion to rectify the damage.

The product is irrelevant; there are always lots of friendly replies offering advice on specific situations but sadly, as retailers, we are expected to just put up with it. The public these days have a pretty strong entitlement complex and unfortunately the law backs them up.

My suggestion would be to let it go and try and vent your frustrations in a passive-aggressive manner. When customers complain that a particular item of stock is a bit pricey, explain that you have to account for the damages caused by inconsiderate fatties.

It's wrong, I know, but you have to let it go...

 

[Tantrum]

When customers complain that a particular item of stock is a bit pricey, explain that you have to account for the damages caused by inconsiderate fatties.

Haha I like that - can I put it on a sign in the shop? I can't believe people have got stuck on the id idea - like we're really going to do that?! We do treat people as they treat us though and it hasn't affected business yet. We've got a few signs up such as "be nice or leave" and a copy of the sale of goods act but you can only put so many signs up before people start thinking you're a miserable old sod!
Trading Standards had an interesting comment to make - that it wasn't their sort of problem, it was criminal damage and that I should contact the police! Round and round we go...
I think this needs some clarification so I'll be speaking to the police - as a non emergency of course! - to see what action should be taken should this happen again. Again thanks guys for all the comments - except the Simon Cowell ones which were disturbing to say the least...

 

[deniser]

If it were me (I own a clothes shop too) I would send it back to the manufacturer. The zip should be a bit more robust than that even if the skirt was a bit tight. The fact that the boyfriend ripped the skirt off was probably done in panic rather than intentionally.

Send it back to your supplier, explain what happened, they are sure to credit you (mine would).

 

[Tantrum]

If it were me (I own a clothes shop too) I would send it back to the manufacturer. The zip should be a bit more robust than that even if the skirt was a bit tight. The fact that the boyfriend ripped the skirt off was probably done in panic rather than intentionally.

Send it back to your supplier, explain what happened, they are sure to credit you (mine would).

Thanks for that - I've thought about it but sincerely there was not any fault with the garment. I've put the zip back together and there is no way that it was faulty, there's not a tooth missing or out of place, it's in perfect working order and I could take it off this skirt and put it on another garment! I have a great relationship with this supplier and too much respect for them to try and fob them off with lies.
The simple fact is that she was too fat and the boyfriend didn't want her to try it on in the first place - he'd stayed outside the whole time she was trying it on. I overheard her call out to her boyfriend - who wasn't listening 'cos he was outside - that she couldn't even get it over her thighs. I was about to offer her the next size up when she managed to tug it on and came out of the changing room - I've never felt so sorry for a piece of clothing, it was like handing over a beloved kitten to a furrier, talk about michelin woman!
Anyway I digress, it's the whole back seam of the skirt that is ripped. The boyfriend blatantly rejected my offers of help and acted with undue force, neither of them were bothered, apologetic or upset in any way - until we asked for restitution. After 13 years in this business we've had many issues with accidental tears and seams bursting and I can tell when customers are genuinely upset by what's happened - that's the time to say oh well & chalk it up to experience and good customer relations.
If I take this any further I will send it to the manufacturer and take it to an independent tailors for an opinion - but the clothing was in perfect condition, the zip is strong and we'd only received it the day before. I'm aware that compared to issues some other people on this forum face that this is trivial in comparison, but as it is an issue that affects many small businesses I'm determined to find out what I can do if faced with this situation again!

 

[Tej]

Idf you told the supplier the truth as you have posted here.. am sure they would do something.. a credit note.. or a replacement FOC .. called goodwill...

Been there.. done that..

 

[Tantrum]

Idf you told the supplier the truth as you have posted here.. am sure they would do something.. a credit note.. or a replacement FOC .. called goodwill...

Been there.. done that..

They've already done me a favour today on another matter....