Help! Been a while since I posted but...

[Root 66 Woodshop]

Hi folks,

It's been a while since I've posted here, I won't go into to much detail, but I've had a few issues, most of which have almost been sorted, however I've been struggling mentally, so has my wife (much worse than myself).

Back in November 2020, I gave up my job as a Security Consultant (Locksmith specialist) to go into business with a couple of (who I thought) friends...

So, we started a business, Full property maintenance, key cutting and locks, we also have a shop front selling hand made items, we have two older ladies selling from the shop and we're doing good... We're based in Heywood, Rochdale and we're busy... always busy doing something.

Unfortunately, promises were made, and basically not kept... I've fought on with the business no matter what, despite getting no guaranteed wages, one of my business partners basically walked away in december, the company owing him £3000 - (I've managed to pay him £2000 of that back) the other business partner (who I have known since 2008) only came in when he was working for the company, i.e. being paid £120.00 a day... although most days, he was only doing half a day... which I pulled him about, asking him what he was playing at... in fact my exact words were... "You're meant to be helping, and you're not"... He claimed I shouted at him (boohoo!) and then walked away from the business saying he was done... while I was off sick, he then emptied the bank account, sending me an email thanking me for the return of monies he invested... (which was only £647.00 plus according to him, some sand and cement totalling £118.00 which he has never provided an invoice for).

He's pulled over £5000 since start up of the business, working 3 days a week (mostly half days)... he's got "teams" in to do some of the work, so he could walk away from the job and do whatever he wanted to do that week, in fairness he didn't put in for when he wasn't working... but his attitude was, as soon as he starts the engine to go to work... he's working! (Pathetic I know!) getting to site for 10.30am and leaving at 4.00pm does not constitute as a days work to me, especially when I'm in the shop from 9.00am - 4.00pm and then out doing quotes till 7.00pm most nights.

Simple fact of the matter, since start up of the business I've managed to pull around £2000 to cover my rent at home, my wife pays most the bills, which I cannot fault her for, she's trying hard to keep us both going, any monies I give to her, instead of her putting it towards food, rent or bills she sticks it in the safe... just in case.

Despite the issues that both of them have caused, I'm still getting decent orders in, from Locks, to property maintenance work to hand made wooden signs (6ft and 8ft long and over £500 per sign).

My problem is, do I carry on... I have a joiner who is part of the company, he wants to carry on and move forward, my only problem is I don't know if I can do it... we have orders and deposits in totalling £1500 balances of these orders is another £1500 plus I have to pay back £2000 to a very kind person who lent me the money when she heard what both of them had done to us... Oh yeah, my good friend since 2008 was also my Landlord, he told my wife we were in arrears, which obviously we were not... him being a person (according to him, doesn't lie)... told her we have been in arrears since 2018, then emailed her the second to last page of our tenancy agreement... he's changed the amount from £515.00 to £650.00 per month... so we had no alternative but to leave within a week as rent was due and I wasn't going to let him treat my wife like this... never mind me! I would rather be inside for murder after what he's done to us...

Put it this way... he also told my wife that if she needed somewhere to stay, there was a bed at hers available...

I need help to decide what to do, customers are loving what we are doing, but I'm struggling financially and mentally... I don't want to let my joiner down, as he is prepared to close his business down and trade under the one company to help... but do I put him through that? Do I put him through that hardship, when he has no need to do it... or do I just get the jobs done that I've got in and close the business?

Oh, I've got another job coming in... for a full house re-fit, he wants us to strip the house first, see what the bones are like before deciding his next step... could potentially be a £15.000 grand order...

Since 2020 we've pulled in over £30k - I think that's not bad considering we started during the pandemic...

I'm 45, I've applied for a couple of jobs about 2 months ago when all the issues were in mid stream... no one wants someone of my age, whether I'm experienced or not in the trade that I'm in (Locksmithing and security)... their looking for younger, mouldable people... someone who can be trained the way they want, rather than someone that can already do what they need... if that makes sense... Going from a business doing what they do, to taking that person on... it's just doesn't seem to be the way these days...

I need someone to talk too, as I have no one now... my wife clams up and I need a bit of sensible guidance mentally and financially... I just don't know what to do anymore...

 

[AllUpHere]

You've got my number from when we were exchanging WhatsApp messages about a new lock for my safe ages ago. Send me a message any time of you want a chat. If you no longer have my number, PM me.

 

[intheTRADE]

My first question would be how is the company set up? Is a Ltd company with shareholders, a partnership between 3 people or just a back of a fag packet set up?

There's an old saying 'never go into business with friends or family' - you've now learnt that so won't patronise you

In terms of moving the business forward, you say you are getting orders then say you have deposits of £1500 and further balances due of £1500. Thats 3k in total. Are there other orders? Have you got a pipeline of work for after that? If not 3k won't last a month after costs and wages

 

[Root 66 Woodshop]

My first question would be how is the company set up? Is a Ltd company with shareholders, a partnership between 3 people or just a back of a fag packet set up?

There's an old saying 'never go into business with friends or family' - you've now learnt that so won't patronise you

In terms of moving the business forward, you say you are getting orders then say you have deposits of £1500 and further balances due of £1500. Thats 3k in total. Are there other orders? Have you got a pipeline of work for after that? If not 3k won't last a month after costs and wages

Ltd company - shareholders will be changed when HMRC get their backsides in gear and send me my bloody log in! Been waiting a month, reported it and they said there's a back log... not much help when you only get 15 days to log in from creation... stupid innit!

Yep, I definitely learnt that the hard way... lost someone who I thought was a good friend... someone I wouldn't pee on if on fire anymore... and worse of all my home.

I've got quite a few job's "scheduled" roughly over 6-8 weeks of continuous work, the £3k that I've mentioned isn't a lot I know, however manufacturing costs of the signs I make is less than £100 per sign, I've sold one for £650.00 a second for £550.00 to the same school... there's potentially other jobs from them too... I've not looked at what I want labour wise to be honest, I'm more interested in paying bills, rent, electric and water (rent is cheap by the way... really cheap )

I've sold an outside bar area for £2000.00 they're having it, just not yet ordered it... costs including Labour is only £1000 - we could have charged a lot more, but we're about getting the orders in... and keeping busy

Wages - what wages? There's only myself in the business as of yet... both my joiner and I work on wages IF we get a job in... we don't pay ourselves if we're not doing anything.

 

[Root 66 Woodshop]

You've got my number from when we were exchanging WhatsApp messages about a new lock for my safe ages ago. Send me a message any time of you want a chat. If you no longer have my number, PM me.

I don't have anything on my phone dating back a year... had to upgrade and lost everything, and I mean everything! LOL!

 

[DWS]

HMRC have nothing to do with changing shareholders, you need to do that through Companies House

 

[Root 66 Woodshop]

HMRC have nothing to do with changing shareholders, you need to do that through Companies House

That's what I meant... sorry.

 

[Simma55]

Hi, I am sorry to hear your troubles as I went through a very similar situation some years ago with a " a trusted old school friend and his wife".
I am in the Joinery manufacturing trade and one of the mistakes I made at that time was to focus all of my attensions and energy on getting rid of said friends from the business and also some revenge, when I eventualy realised my wife and I accepted the situation and put our focus into moving our business forward.
If I could initialy suggest that you make sure you keep records of EVERYTHING your business partners have taken from the business money and assets so that these can be recorded in your accounts. Put together a file of any documentary evidence in date order as this will help you assess exactly who owes what and more importantly if it goes legal you have the evidence (judges like lots of orderly evidence).
It doesnt sound like you need much to get rid of the culprits.
Does any of you have any bank guarantees for borrowing?. If so make sure the culprits dont get let off the hook and leave you with the burden.

Turning to your business, it sounds like you have a very conscientious Joiner , take advantage of this as he seems to realise what potential your business plan has.
Try and concentrate on what makes you the most profit i.e. In my experience anything that requires few materials ( lock changes are an ideal example).
One huge word of advice at the moment, be vary carefull when quoting for jobs where there are a lot of timber etc as the prices are rising rapidly and this look to continue for the forseeable future. Dont get caught out quoting for a job now that takes place in many months time as you will get your fingers burnt. You sound like a genorous guy like me and it is very easy to give in and do the job for the agreed origional price with the potential to loose money very easily.
I would be happy to help in any way that I can , as I know how stressful it will be. But seriously dont let it effect your marriage, it will work itself out and you will succeed.

 

[Lisa Thomas]

I haven't read all the detail here, but please note you can't just change the shareholders. The shares are owned by the shareholders so you will need to reach an agreement with them to purchase their shares. Based on current information they don't appear to have much, if any, value but if you continue to trade the business successfully, they will be entitled to future dividends and voting etc.

 

[Root 66 Woodshop]

I haven't read all the detail here, but please note you can't just change the shareholders. The shares are owned by the shareholders so you will need to reach an agreement with them to purchase their shares. Based on current information they don't appear to have much, if any, value but if you continue to trade the business successfully, they will be entitled to future dividends and voting etc.

It is my understanding, if there are no funds in the company then any shares = 0

My wages and bills come first therefore any monies are paid to me and bills before there is anything to "share".

I've also been on companies house, and updated the shares thing... it reads now that there is only 1 share... mine.

Unless of course I'm missing something...

 

[Root 66 Woodshop]

Hi, I am sorry to hear your troubles as I went through a very similar situation some years ago with a " a trusted old school friend and his wife".
I am in the Joinery manufacturing trade and one of the mistakes I made at that time was to focus all of my attensions and energy on getting rid of said friends from the business and also some revenge, when I eventualy realised my wife and I accepted the situation and put our focus into moving our business forward.

Similar, yes... I have a property maintenance company now, along with the joinery side of things that we do, we also have a shop front showing our scrap products we make, jewellery boxes, wooden pens, coffee tables etc.

If I could initialy suggest that you make sure you keep records of EVERYTHING your business partners have taken from the business money and assets so that these can be recorded in your accounts. Put together a file of any documentary evidence in date order as this will help you assess exactly who owes what and more importantly if it goes legal you have the evidence (judges like lots of orderly evidence).

All done, my head is like a filing cabinet, so I have to write everything down otherwise I have a mini-explosion of information and a bit of a melt down.

It doesnt sound like you need much to get rid of the culprits.
Does any of you have any bank guarantees for borrowing?. If so make sure the culprits dont get let off the hook and leave you with the burden.

Nothing is borrowed, all funds in my business account are from jobs, deposits etc... there is no debt, as I've always ensured bills are paid before I took anything as a wage myself.

Turning to your business, it sounds like you have a very conscientious Joiner , take advantage of this as he seems to realise what potential your business plan has.
Try and concentrate on what makes you the most profit i.e. In my experience anything that requires few materials ( lock changes are an ideal example).

I've got loads of jobs booked in now, all customer orders over £500.00 = a 50% deposit before anything is made or bought in for jobs.

One huge word of advice at the moment, be vary carefull when quoting for jobs where there are a lot of timber etc as the prices are rising rapidly and this look to continue for the forseeable future. Dont get caught out quoting for a job now that takes place in many months time as you will get your fingers burnt. You sound like a genorous guy like me and it is very easy to give in and do the job for the agreed origional price with the potential to loose money very easily.

My close friends have always said... I'm daft not stupid

All my quotes go out with the protection of product inflation etc

I would be happy to help in any way that I can , as I know how stressful it will be. But seriously dont let it effect your marriage, it will work itself out and you will succeed.

Any time you're in the area, pop in always a coffee going here

I've made sure this isn't going to affect my marriage, but... like anything it cannot be guaranteed

This is the kind of thing I've been doing

 

[AW-UK]

I would say keep going, your other business partners / friends have shown true colours, so get rid of them as fast as you can and get back to it, sounds like you are still taking orders, so just forget the past and concentrate on the future, you can't change how others have treated you, but you can learn from it, turn it into a positive from a negative experience.

 

[MikeJ]

It is my understanding, if there are no funds in the company then any shares = 0

My wages and bills come first therefore any monies are paid to me and bills before there is anything to "share".

I've also been on companies house, and updated the shares thing... it reads now that there is only 1 share... mine.

Unless of course I'm missing something...

You've just stolen his shares, and opened yourself up to a claim.

For heaven's sake, don't do anything else until you've got some advice. Get something in writing from him ASAP that he agrees to transfer his shares to you for £1.

 

[DWS]

Agree with MikeJ you can’t just go on CH and change the shares this will not be legally binding, you need to buy them and then have them transferred to you using the correct forms.

 

[Root 66 Woodshop]

He can claim as much as he wants, he's stolen over £1000 out of the bank account and has over £1000 of the companies assets...

None of them have given anything to the company by way of buying shares... so that doesn't make sense to me at all?