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Heating a very large building

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backtap

Does anyone out there own and have to heat a large building with no insulation? We are a Restaurant and Event venue in a 500+ year old Tudor Barn which we are trying to heat, nobody has come up with an effective solution in the last 500 odd years.

The building is Grade 2* listed, we can't insulate the massive roof. The hall area is about 1000 cubic meters! We are seriously looking at wood burning based heating but I'd love to speak to someone that actually does use it. Or does anyone use any other clever ideas to heat such a space and avoid paying massive electricity bills.

We aren't on the gas mains, it runs 20 meters away. If anyone has experience getting a mains gas connection for a business how was it? What did it cost.

Thanks in advance.
 
Some form of insulation would be a start, otherwise you will be paying to heat the entire planet. Listed buildings are an absolute nightmare. Are you able to apply for permission to use IWI or EWI?
 
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That's not a large building, you should try heating a warehouse ;-)

You need to tackle it from 3 angles:

1. Low cost heating, the lowest cost per kWh you can find. For cost, wood chips are cheap (around 3p per kWh), but gas and oil are only slightly more (around 4p and 4.5p respectively). So go with what's most convenient, and has the least capital cost. That's gas.

2. Insulation, you need to reduce the heat loss from the building as much as possible. You should aim to insulate the building and draught proof it as much as possible, within the listing restrictions.

3. Reducing the volume of space you are heating. You also need to minimise the volume of space you are heating. A suspended ceiling or tent ceiling is a good option.
 
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Thanks all so far...

Can't put a tented ceiling up as the ceiling is one of the main features of the building. Have looked in to glass false ceilings etc but no can do.

Sysops comments about gas vs wood chip very interesting but we need to get on the mains supply and we were under the impression that would costs a five figure sum.

[FONT=verdana,geneva,lucida,arial]vvaannmmaann[/FONT] was your gas pipe for commercial use?

May potentially have a cheap source of wood (local council who own the building) which is why we've been so keen on it + significant reduction in carbon footprint.

Really like to know if anyone uses wood burners out there to provide heat on a similar scale.

What's
Are you able to apply for permission to use IWI or EWI?
LicensedToTrade
Click to expand...

Thanks again, keep it coming!
http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/member.php?u=60575
 
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Is there not an overhead heating system you can use? one source to several over head ducts? like in a warehouse.

Perhaps that would detract from the ceiling.

Reducing heat loss is your first concern and draughts. Insulation then heating, otherwise you'll waste money heating the air outside your windows.
 
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Unfortunately we are know we're going to be heating the outside. Suspended or overhead heating again not really an option as yes it would detract from the fantastic Tudor roof.

Underfloor heating would be ideal but the install costs would be massive and due to limited ceiling/floor clearance require a major refurb.
 
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Maybe i'm misunderstanding the dimensions of the room.

So its quite a low ceiling height but quite a wide/long building or hall area.

It seems that connecting to the mains is the best option, so that you can have a heating system put in that runs on a series of radiators dotted around the room to break up cold areas.

Not sure on the price of hooking up the mains. All i know is that a central heating system for a large victorian property came in at £6,500 in total.
 
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backtap said:
Thanks all so far...

Can't put a tented ceiling up as the ceiling is one of the main features of the building. Have looked in to glass false ceilings etc but no can do.

Sysops comments about gas vs wood chip very interesting but we need to get on the mains supply and we were under the impression that would costs a five figure sum.

[FONT=verdana,geneva,lucida,arial]vvaannmmaann[/FONT] was your gas pipe for commercial use?

May potentially have a cheap source of wood (local council who own the building) which is why we've been so keen on it + significant reduction in carbon footprint.

Really like to know if anyone uses wood burners out there to provide heat on a similar scale.

What's


Thanks again, keep it coming!
Click to expand...


Have a chat with the guy here http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/46kW-Angus-Ev...arden_Hearing_Cooling_Air&hash=item415446897f

I did quite a lot of research for a charity in Dorset and these guys had the best deals around.
 
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Burn the building down. Not a brilliant long term solution but for atleast one night it'll be toasty warm in there.
 
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Backtap...

IWI/EWI is internal wall insulation and external wall insulation. In your case IWI probably won't be suitable as it would drastically alter and modernise the appearance of the interior.

But there are a number of EWI systems that can be used on non-traditional builds whilst maintaining a look in keeping with the building.

In brief EWI is a system where insulation boards (polystyrene, rockwool, phenolic foam etc) are fixed to the external substrate and then a decorative finish is applied. In modern houses this would be render or a brick slip but you can get stone and wood cladding too.
 
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If you take the temperature just below the pitch of the roof space you will find that the top of the building is much warmer than the space below. I have seen a novel solution which was a wooden 'chimney' with a fan to suck the warm air from above and spread it below. The one I saw was decorated in keeping with a listed victorian building.
 
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We're Grade 2* listed so can't really do anyting to alter the building. External cladding not an option nor internal, yes it would change the appearance quite drastically.

I'm going to start a new thread titled woodburning as that's what I really need to know more about.

Thanks all
​
 
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Don't know if this will help but we currently heat approximately 64,000 sq feet with a diesel powered industrial heater. We have a tank for the diesel in the corner which feeds the heater. It's only needed to take the chill off as it's a warehouse but if we leave it on it gets toasty warm in there. No idea on costs yet as seeing how long the Diesel we bought lasts... You can do the same with a large gas storage tank.

Personally though, I think a nice big open fire would be much better in a restaurant.
 
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Yes we do need to keep it little warmer than a warehouse. We do try to sell the lower temperature to our customers as part of the "Tudor Experience" - we are a Tudor Barn after all. This is ok when we have Tudor Feasts but less acceptable for weddings! www.tudorbarneltham.co.uk if anyone wants a look.

I have just found this company whose case study has answered a lot of my questions..

http://www.ecoangus.co.uk/case_study.html
 
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backtap said:
Does anyone out there own and have to heat a large building with no insulation? We are a Restaurant and Event venue in a 500+ year old Tudor Barn which we are trying to heat, nobody has come up with an effective solution in the last 500 odd years.

The building is Grade 2* listed, we can't insulate the massive roof. The hall area is about 1000 cubic meters! We are seriously looking at wood burning based heating but I'd love to speak to someone that actually does use it. Or does anyone use any other clever ideas to heat such a space and avoid paying massive electricity bills.

We aren't on the gas mains, it runs 20 meters away. If anyone has experience getting a mains gas connection for a business how was it? What did it cost.

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

You need an industrial "Space Heater" with a fan to circulate the warm air - If you go for diesel then it MUST be "Indirect" and have a flue to get rid of the fumes. Propane would be my preferred option. Why not hire one for a week to try it out before you buy.

Have a look on here

http://www.hss.com/index.php?f=content/heater.htm#which
 
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backtap said:
Yes we do need to keep it little warmer than a warehouse. We do try to sell the lower temperature to our customers as part of the "Tudor Experience" - we are a Tudor Barn after all. This is ok when we have Tudor Feasts but less acceptable for weddings! www.tudorbarneltham.co.uk if anyone wants a look.

I have just found this company whose case study has answered a lot of my questions..

http://www.ecoangus.co.uk/case_study.html
Click to expand...

Very optimistic costings regarding delivered seasoned wood and I would think you would need 3 of them :redface:
 
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Hard to tell from your gallery piccies,but the barn has a flat ceiling? What's upstairs? Insulate the floor above perhaps? What about secondary glazing on the windows?
If all else fails,what about those very un-eco patio heaters?
 
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No the roof is pitched and exposed to the upper floor (Tudor Gallery), height from floor to ceiling is over 6m. We currently use a 28kw space heater for the Gallery, it works but is noisy and really is like burning £10 notes, not exactly eco or wallet friendly.

Because we are Grade 2* listed secondary double glazing is not an affordable option.

I agree roydmoorian we probably would need a bigger system than this http://www.ecoangus.co.uk/case_study.html probably 60kw although we are looking at a 40kw wood burner. Obviously I'd like some who isn't trying to sell one to me to tell there experiences using a similar system.
 
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you really need to speak to your conservation officer about any combustion heat source.
 
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Infra Red heaters are your best bet, They heat up solid items and not the air so people should feel well toasty ;)

Look here http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wall-moun..._bbq_Patio_Covers_Heating&hash=item2337504c06

Infra-red heaters have the ability to warm people directly without the need to heat up the air around them. This makes them the most energy efficient form of heat for use as a patio or large indoor space heater. This easy to use radiant heater is designed to attach to a wall or other vertical surface outdoors and have the ability to heat you and your guests directly.

Get a few of those up in the roof space pointing down towards the floorspace, Cheap to run too.
 
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I recommend you space heater as well for ex. 100kW, but I found something not common, Air-Water-Air Heater: madaboutheat.com. Any experiences?
 
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