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God save the Queen

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I never was and never will be a royalist, but cannot deny she served the country as she vowed faithfully at her coronation, rarely putting a foot wrong over the years. Have to admire her seventy years of service as monarch.
 
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I’m not a believer in god, nor that in the 21st century there’s a need for royalty, but I respect those who do.
 
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My family and I were all booked to go to the Matlock illuminations on Saturday, incl staying the night, also booked and paid for.
We have just received an E Mail saying the illuminations "has been cancelled due to Death of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II."

I think her death is significant, and (despite the fact she was 96 and, more importantly, she had had a good quality of life almost to the end) I am a little sad as its the end of an era, but try as I might I cannot think cancelling the Matlock Bath illuminations is a proportionate reaction.....

They have refunded our Illuminations tickets but I wonder if the Royal bank account will refund us for the hotel room ?
 
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I agree there’s no need to cancel anything, apart from maybe events at royal locations.

Would she have wanted glum nothingness, or (especially in the case of sport) keep calm and carry on?
 
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Glad unlike the FA than the RFU have decided rugby will continue but with minutes silences etc.

Suspect Windsor RFC will need to switch to play away fixtures next weekend however just due to traffic and parking issues (some of the main Windsor car parks surround their pitches/clubhouse)
 
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simon field said:
I agree there’s no need to cancel anything, apart from maybe events at royal locations.
Would she have wanted glum nothingness, or (especially in the case of sport) keep calm and carry on?
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Spot on, she was about stiff upper lip and getting on with it.
The only cancellation I agree with was the Royal Mail strikes (there's a clue in the name).
 
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If only the critics did a little for the country, things could be a bit better all round, they mock the government but never stand for anything them selves, Her Majesty gave her whole life to the country and served it well. with a day of sorry is little payback
 
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FWIW, I found myself very suprised to find, of all the tributes from world leaders that I have heard, the one given by President Macron of France seemed the most genuine and heartfelt.

Well worth watching on YouTube if you have a few minutes.
 
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IanSuth said:
Glad unlike the FA than the RFU have decided rugby will continue but with minutes silences etc.

Suspect Windsor RFC will need to switch to play away fixtures next weekend however just due to traffic and parking issues (some of the main Windsor car parks surround their pitches/clubhouse)
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I think it's all a bit much TBH, I know of footie fans that have paid for train tickets and hotels away, how about a bit of empathy for them.....
My wife (who is particularly annoyed about the Illuminations cancellation) reckons there is an echo of Covid about this in that during the pandemic organisations, and people generally, just got used to cancelling things. Also, much like what happened during Covid, people's attitude to those cancellations probably largely depends on how much they have been inconvenienced by them !
 
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Justin Smith said:
reckons there is an echo of Covid about this in that during the pandemic organisations
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The protocol behind the death of our monarch was written hundreds of years ago so you can reassure your wife there's nothing relative to or similar to covid behind this.
 
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simon field said:
A public vote on whether to carry on having a monarchy?
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It would be a very sad day indeed if it was ever decided to have such a vote, let alone the unthinkable that the monarchy even be abolished losing us any dregs of identity the country is still hanging on to.
 
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japancool said:
There's something remarkably un-British about how well this has all been pre-planned.
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There's companies out there that allow you to pre-plan your funeral if you wanted to; where the country is concerned they just take it a bit more seriously. :eek:
 
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Ozzy said:
It would be a very sad day indeed if it was ever decided to have such a vote, let alone the unthinkable that the monarchy even be abolished losing us any dregs of identity the country is still hanging on to.
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That’s interesting, thanks. The people shouldn’t have a say.

Person I’d like to see a rethink, especially around the many ‘hangers on’, and whether people who own vast swathes of land and property can justify their position. Ah well, horses for courses ?
 
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The Royals have perfected getting powerful people supporting them down to a fine art through the honours system and various appointments.

If you watch the Privvy council you will recognise almost all of them as former MP’s, PM’s etc, many still currently in office. I don’t think anything is going to change in the near future.
 
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japancool said:
Like whom?
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Literally, all of them apart from the current top-dogs (king and queen cohort).

Then after that, just a vote every few years for new ones. Do away with all those layers of bad juju, all that ceremony and pomp(ous), and the association with kid fiddlers.
 
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simon field said:
Literally, all of them apart from the current top-dogs (king and queen cohort).

Then after that, just a vote every few years for new ones. Do away with all those layers of bad juju, all that ceremony and pomp(ous), and the association with kid fiddlers.
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If you chose on a public vote Megan Markle would be pushing out the rest and becoming the woke queen, two years later how things change.
 
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simon field said:
That’s interesting, thanks. The people shouldn’t have a say.
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Forgetting I feel having a monarchy is good for business and national identity.

The problem with allowing the public to vote is the vast majority of the public still believe what they see on Facebook and other conspiracies across social media.

You just have to look at brexit to see evidence of that. The public didn’t consider NI, jobs or international trade, instead believing a red bus and conspiracy posts on social media. Imagine if we had a vote people will see posts on Facebook that the Royal family costs the tax payer more money than they generate and believe it.
 
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Ozzy said:
Forgetting I feel having a monarchy is good for business and national identity.

The problem with allowing the public to vote is the vast majority of the public still believe what they see on Facebook and other conspiracies across social media.

You just have to look at brexit to see evidence of that. The public didn’t consider NI, jobs or international trade, instead believing a red bus and conspiracy posts on social media. Imagine if we had a vote people will see posts on Facebook that the Royal family costs the tax payer more money than they generate and believe it.
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I understand the sentiment, however, doesn't that lead to the end of democxracy (what little we have)?
 
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Newchodge said:
I understand the sentiment, however, doesn't that lead to the end of democxracy (what little we have)?
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Kind of, but that’s a whole deeper conversation. I feel our democracy is broken and not fit for purpose.
Decisions that have such a huge impact on the country shouldn’t be left to people not educated enough to understand the wider consequences. I include many of our politicians in that, and I also think social media has dumbed down so much of society that they believe what they see online, and then to be asked to vote on such stuff is dangerous.

So yes, I suppose democracy needs to be destroyed so that it can be rebuilt from the ashes.
 
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Ozzy said:
Forgetting I feel having a monarchy is good for business and national identity.

The problem with allowing the public to vote is the vast majority of the public still believe what they see on Facebook and other conspiracies across social media.

You just have to look at brexit to see evidence of that. The public didn’t consider NI, jobs or international trade, instead believing a red bus and conspiracy posts on social media. Imagine if we had a vote people will see posts on Facebook that the Royal family costs the tax payer more money than they generate and believe it.
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If you spend a lot of time looking at Farcebook, I can understand how you’d come to those conclusions about what other people think, but surely that’s part of the problem?

I agree about our education system though. I think if kids were taught the history and reality of how these few privileged people came to be (and why they’re still there) then that would be enough of a wake-up call to say ‘No more’, rather than believing that these people are somehow superior and are to be bowed down to.
 
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simon field said:
Have a king and queen if you must, but what’s the point of all the others?
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I agree with some of the lower rungs being removed but I think King Charles is already planning to prune things. He would prefer a smaller, more controllable bunch.

People also forget that the Royals have historic links to the military, to charitable trusts and support organisations. So, while you may see a Prince as a hanger on, let's not forget they are booked in for public speaking, visits to hospitals and various other things. It may all be an act, it may all be theatre but for many, it's a little bit of glitz, some history and something exciting that can happen - Prince William visiting your little charity and shaking hands with staff, a huge boost to morale and something to talk about in the paper and on Facebook!

Imagine if we got rid of it all, we would lose so much of that connection to history. Plus, a lot of the land they hold is in various trusts and does not generate profit. If it were sold off, the next owner would be sure to build on it all and that owner would likely be from overseas, with profits being distributed in foreign lands.
 
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Ozzy said:
The problem with allowing the public to vote is the vast majority of the public still believe what they see on Facebook and other conspiracies across social media.

You just have to look at brexit to see evidence of that. The public didn’t consider NI, jobs or international trade, instead believing a red bus and conspiracy posts on social media. Imagine if we had a vote people will see posts on Facebook that the Royal family costs the tax payer more money than they generate and believe it.
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Turn this argument around for a second.

Many in the UK Government, the Civil Service and many MP’s colluded with the European negotiators to help put through a watered down Brexit, such things as NI should never have been entertained for a second, and as a country we should have been prepared to go to world trade rules if required.

Things would have been soon negotiated after that, but we are where we are. This current Brexit is a half way house, not anything like was promised. Anyway, the point being rather than blaming the democratic system, maybe blame the implementation of that decision.

It seems in the UK, the higher up a ladder you are, particularly in Gov and the Civil Service, the less accountability there is. Anyway, pointless going over the argument again, we are where we are.
 
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MBE2017 said:
Turn this argument around for a second.

Many in the UK Government, the Civil Service and many MP’s colluded with the European negotiators to help put through a watered down Brexit, such things as NI should never have been entertained for a second, and as a country we should have been prepared to go to world trade rules if required.

Things would have been soon negotiated after that, but we are where we are. This current Brexit is a half way house, not anything like was promised. Anyway, the point being rather than blaming the democratic system, maybe blame the implementation of that decision.

It seems in the UK, the higher up a ladder you are, particularly in Gov and the Civil Service, the less accountability there is. Anyway, pointless going over the argument again, we are where we are.
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I would agree with that - from an economic perspective it is all or nothing. Either stay in the single market/CU or be prepared to completely walk away from it and compete like the devil with it. Trying to be a step brother to it is the worst of both worlds.

BUT i do not think the general public is prepared to walk away from what you would need to leave behind to effectively compete with it - they were promised they could have their cake and eat it and want what they were promised.

All the protections, workers rights, high standards (read as red tape) without any of the red tape and bureaucracy (read any rights and standards the particular person speaking didn't like)

As a populous we are just not ready for a US style "at will" employment and litigate after the fact with punitive damages rather than pre-emptively legislate.

We are doomed to at least a decade of failing in the middle before one side or the other wins the argument as to which side we fall, then we will either crash out completely from all the agreements or we will go to an EFTA / Norway style agreement
 
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Ozzy said:
The protocol behind the death of our monarch was written hundreds of years ago so you can reassure your wife there's nothing relative to or similar to covid behind this.
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Sorry, are you saying the country and its economy and indeed democracy and people's right, haven't changed in the last few hundred of years ?
 
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The consequences of this extra bank holiday are slowly becoming clear to me....

The carriers we use at work are apparently going to be closed, so there is no point in us working (yet more negative effects on the economy, just when it really doesn't need it).

The schools will be closed. So, apart from one less day of education, what the hell are all those parent to do, change all their child care arrangements at a few days notice ? Actually, the kids losing one day's education is nothing I suppose, after all they shut the schools for 7 months because of Covid (a virus which none of the kids were at any risk from and not many of the parents either as the vast majority of parents are under 45).
I wonder if the government will get fined for keeping the kids off school ? After all parents are fined for doing so......

My own passion, swimming, might also be cancelled on that day, though again, they shut the soddin' pools for 7 months "because of Covid" so what's yet another day ? As my wife said, after the pandemic organisations have just got used to cancelling stuff aft.

No this is all going too far, and it'll be repeated when King Charlie get's his crown. It's enough harden me from an agnosticism about the monarchy !
 
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