Free Business

[FreeBusiness]

Would you like a Free Business? Program creates a cultural specific economics, uses no money/ needs no money. Based on ecological dynamics of earth. Creates wealth naturally without need for banks or insurance companies. This is a new program developed after 40 years of research. First time offered Apr 22, 2009. I would appreciate any and all comments and questions. If you feel the information is incomplete or confusion I would especially like to know. This post gives you the chance of becoming part of an economy based on the stability found in natural systems - not on greed. The site is at greenmoneyworks dot com Click on the links Free Business. Thanks for your interests. Hope to hear from you personally.

Robert

 

[garyk]

fruit loop.

 

[Rufford]

Would you like a Free Business? Program creates a cultural specific economics, uses no money/ needs no money. Based on ecological dynamics of earth. Creates wealth naturally without need for banks or insurance companies. This is a new program developed after 40 years of research. First time offered Apr 22, 2009. I would appreciate any and all comments and questions. If you feel the information is incomplete or confusion I would especially like to know. This post gives you the chance of becoming part of an economy based on the stability found in natural systems - not on greed. The site is at greenmoneyworks dot com Click on the links Free Business. Thanks for your interests. Hope to hear from you personally.

Robert

oops you're here again - here's the link again: http://www.greenmoneyworks.com/

When you've earned some money will you become a UKBF member like me then you can post your own links

 

[FreeBusiness]

fruit loop.

Sorry. Is this a comment on: the idea, the information, the author or your fear of change?
Robert

 

[kabby911]

The Site Did not make much sense to me

 

[Spock]

Whether the theory is crackpot or not, you have one of the worst looking websites I have encountered. If you are serious then you need to get a site that entices people in, whereas yours looks like a first effort from a school kid.

No offense but that's how it is.

 

[FreeBusiness]

This is not the first time I've got this comment and I have revised the site many times, I seem to have difficulty compressing a lot of information into a small space. Please understand this is no joke and I am getting published in mainstream mags. You have to think what it would be like if you were expected to explain capitalism on a web site to people who were used to barter.

This program does enable people to create a business that does not use money and it has a macro application that addresses the problems of what is called the tragedy of the commons, for example the ocean fisheries.

 

[FreeBusiness]

I do appreciate the comments on the site. I have redone it many times so you are probably all right, I do not have a clue when it comes to designing a web site. But it is more important to know this than to know you have a good site. Is there a specific thing you would be looking for when you go to Green Money? What did you not find?

Again, I am deeply indebted to you all for your time in this matter.
Regards
Robert

 

[Spock]

As far as the design goes, just look at how other sites are laid out. Any decent looking site will give you an idea. And choose a colour scheme of around 3 colours that work together and stick to them. Also your text is graphic images that have been saved in bad quality by the looks of it. A bit of basic html work will help - there are loads of online resources for this.

 

[Robert Wheeler]

Well I can not get any of the links to work. Everything seems to be images. What is wrong with using text? And what is it actually all about? Whether conventional currency is involved or not, what is the business model here? How can I make a living out of your concept of business?

 

[FreeBusiness]

As far as the design goes, just look at how other sites are laid out. Any decent looking site will give you an idea. And choose a colour scheme of around 3 colours that work together and stick to them. Also your text is graphic images that have been saved in bad quality by the looks of it. A bit of basic html work will help - there are loads of online resources for this.

I've totaly redone the site including the way the material is organized, which should make it easier to understand and navigate. I actually did not use color or pics as it is very text based.

This is a new business model based on a hybrid of sole proprietorship and cooperative

Anyway, thanks for input

robert

 

[Spock]

Hey Robert

It's certainly better but for some reason the main text body is still generated as a graphic, which means it's difficult to read and the links don't work within the paragraphs.

 

[FreeBusiness]

Well I can not get any of the links to work. Everything seems to be images. What is wrong with using text? And what is it actually all about? Whether conventional currency is involved or not, what is the business model here? How can I make a living out of your concept of business?

Hi Robert
Thanks for your interest. I have totally redone the site including the presentation of the material. This is a new business model, a hybrid of cooperativism and sole proprietorship. No money is used because needs a state to administer it and this model is self contained, incorporates banking, insurance and all public functions. It is basic modular as in biological cells.

As for how you earn a living. That is up to you. You take your business or even what you have as a private individual and plug it into this model and it develops into a way to earn a living.

Please take another look. Please also try www coopparty com

delete spaces and add the 'dot' I'm not allowed to post web links

Regards
Robert

 

[KateCB]

I don't get it......unless it is like the exchange/barter idea?

Example of the house wives - sexist - we have house husbands too now, however..

Housewife A cleans housewife B's house and gets paid, is taxed on earnings etc.
Housewife B cleans housewife A's house and gets paid is taxed on earnings etc.

Two questions spring tomind:

1.What did either 'houseperson' gain from this excercise?
2. What does Housewife A pay housewife B with - she has no money, she is a housewife......does she pay housewife B with the money she gave her for cleaning her house, so B gives it to A and B gives it back.....where did the money come from to start with - and who, except the tax man benefits here?

This is American? Values are quoted in $, terminology is definately not English.....Can't see it working - not as a business.

We all do some of what this website proposes - I have a gardner who cuts my lawns twice a week in return for remedial massage therapy - my lawn is cut - his labour, his sore back is relieved - my labour......it's not a business though; neither of us could pay the mortgage with our 'exchanged' services!

 

[fisicx]

I don't get the whole green money thing. How is it going to pay for a new washing machine or my telephone bill?

How is the website being funded? You have even created the site using software from a capitalist organisation on a machine build overseas shipped using fossil fuels. This doesn't sound very green to me.

But the real killer is the mailing address in Canada - no other contact details that I can see so it's completly irrelevant to us in the UK.

 

[KateCB]

Ha - I missed that - saw the $ and imediately saw USA......

 

[fisicx]

Will this Green money get me one of these:

 

[FreeBusiness]

I don't get the whole green money thing. How is it going to pay for a new washing machine or my telephone bill?

How is the website being funded? You have even created the site using software from a capitalist organisation on a machine build overseas shipped using fossil fuels. This doesn't sound very green to me.

But the real killer is the mailing address in Canada - no other contact details that I can see so it's completly irrelevant to us in the UK.

Hi
The website is about a new business model.
It is a new way of doing business.
It is green because by the way it is organized it encourages local business activity rather than large scale, energy intensive business activities.
It is a business model. It is meant to be applied where you are. There is no need to write to me in Canada or have any contact with me at all.

Do appreciate all input - thanks
Robert

 

[FreeBusiness]

Hey Robert

It's certainly better but for some reason the main text body is still generated as a graphic, which means it's difficult to read and the links don't work within the paragraphs.

Hi Spock
Weird
I use microsoft Front Page. Mostly the site is text boxes and texts. I cannot see why it would be coming across as a graphic.

Any ideas?
Robert

PS I will test the links though obviously they worked in my web page editor

 

[FreeBusiness]

I don't get it......unless it is like the exchange/barter idea?

Example of the house wives - sexist - we have house husbands too now, however..

Housewife A cleans housewife B's house and gets paid, is taxed on earnings etc.
Housewife B cleans housewife A's house and gets paid is taxed on earnings etc.

Two questions spring tomind:

1.What did either 'houseperson' gain from this excercise?
2. What does Housewife A pay housewife B with - she has no money, she is a housewife......does she pay housewife B with the money she gave her for cleaning her house, so B gives it to A and B gives it back.....where did the money come from to start with - and who, except the tax man benefits here?

This is American? Values are quoted in $, terminology is definately not English.....Can't see it working - not as a business.

We all do some of what this website proposes - I have a gardner who cuts my lawns twice a week in return for remedial massage therapy - my lawn is cut - his labour, his sore back is relieved - my labour......it's not a business though; neither of us could pay the mortgage with our 'exchanged' services!

Hi Kate
Its a new business model. You do business but differently.
It does not use money. It uses a system of accounts. You are right, it is basedon people helping people, the same thing we do all the time but it is reformatted into a new way of doing business. What does this mean, it means we can specialize, houseperson can clean b's house and B can work elsewhere. It means anyone anywhere in the world regardless of his or her financial position can start up a business.

It is not a business it is a new business model. Cooperatives do not work like sole proprieterships do not work like barter. If you are a haristylist you do haristyling and this is how you earn a living but it is done without the use of money and in a way that improves the local economy.

Hope this clarifies some of the confusion.
Robert

 

[silvermusic]

Sounds exactly like barter to me. Fine maybe for some goods and services, but I really can't see it replacing the normal method of money for goods.

 

[moose88]

i can imagine this guy on dragons den, after 20 minutes of talking the dragons would say "right, so what is it that you do?"

ok robert break the theory down in to laymans terms, even the "basic" part of the website makes no sense

 

[FreeBusiness]

i can imagine this guy on dragons den, after 20 minutes of talking the dragons would say "right, so what is it that you do?"

ok robert break the theory down in to laymans terms, even the "basic" part of the website makes no sense

Hi Moose

First of all the idea is to remove greed as the motivating concept and to ensure the person who creates a costs pays the cosst. Pollution is costs transferred to the public sphere.

Everyone gets a business or starts a business. This does not require money as the system does not use money. Five+ families create a group or cooperative. This is a basic economy. The members exchange goods and services and the exchanges are recorded as accounts on Asset Cards. Groups acquire new members and as the group grows to 20 or so families it splits. People gravitate to the cell that has the people in it who they can exchange with the most. As the system develops whole economic areas become populated by specialized cells.

In other words structure evolves out of the growing and splitting of the economic cells.

Hope that gives you the basic picture.

Remember it is a new economy and a new business model so it is not easy to summerize everything, which is no excuse for my being confusing or vague but I do appreciate your comments and suggestions as to how I could present this information in a clearer fashion.

Thanks
Robert

 

[FreeBusiness]

Sounds exactly like barter to me. Fine maybe for some goods and services, but I really can't see it replacing the normal method of money for goods.

Hi Silvermusic
You are right. It has a barter aspect. However the cost of the goods and services obtained are recorded as debits and credits on Asset Cards, rather than using money. This enables anyone to set up a business in fact everyone is automatically given a business in this system.

I am creating a FAQ page which I hope to go over the elements of my model and clarify some of the point brought up in this forum. Give me a day or two to get it up and tell me if it helps.

Thank You
Robert

 

[Officebird]

Doesn't barter equal tax evasion for those businesses that are VAT registered?

Why have you not used social (open source) software to create your site?

If swap seo services for call answering how do I pay my business rates etc?

I am not opposed to social enterprise and indeed run a social enterprise myself, Du Services CIC, but I can't understand how you can merge a sole trader type business with a co-op. These are very different business models.

From your posts it is still not clear what your business model is. How do you expect to change the commonly accepted business forms with something you can't even explain?

I'm a single mum, If spend all of my time offering services for coupons or some other service how do I buy food for my daughter?

I think you have good intentions but unfortunately you have missed very important details from your plan.

Take people on benefits for example, If they work for a set number of hours a week in exchange for other services they will need to declare this, and could end up with benefits being stopped so they. Won't be interested. For those of us not on benefits - we can't afford business that doesn't increase revenue.

So who is this aimed at?

Please spend some time explaining your concept and how it works for someone in my situation, as an example.

 

[FreeBusiness]

Doesn't barter equal tax evasion for those businesses that are VAT registered?

Why have you not used social (open source) software to create your site?

If swap seo services for call answering how do I pay my business rates etc?

I am not opposed to social enterprise and indeed run a social enterprise myself, Du Services CIC, but I can't understand how you can merge a sole trader type business with a co-op. These are very different business models.

From your posts it is still not clear what your business model is. How do you expect to change the commonly accepted business forms with something you can't even explain?

I'm a single mum, If spend all of my time offering services for coupons or some other service how do I buy food for my daughter?

I think you have good intentions but unfortunately you have missed very important details from your plan.

Take people on benefits for example, If they work for a set number of hours a week in exchange for other services they will need to declare this, and could end up with benefits being stopped so they. Won't be interested. For those of us not on benefits - we can't afford business that doesn't increase revenue.

So who is this aimed at?

Please spend some time explaining your concept and how it works for someone in my situation, as an example.

Hi Officebird
I am a writer not a programmer
This is a new business model but is not barter. People sell/buy services as normal but do not use money. They use the same system banks use and multinational corporations or intercompany transfers, ie account entries.

Transactions are denominated in the national currency - but no money changes hands. You can pay your taxes etc as normal.

Each person owns their business. The businesses are associated in groups of five to 12 families (each family is a business there is no distinction between home and business). The businesses are shareholders in the coop. They meet to enhance the prospects of mutual exhanges.

There is a lot more information on my site.

This system is no more strange than friends helping friends but organized. The coop can be looked at as a group of people helping each other out, but with records kept. It benefits everyone the more each person does for the other.

Transactions are performed the same way as in any economy. Realize that for a long time money will be used for goods and services that have not adopted this business model.

As for the benefits thing. This is about creating a new economy. In the short run if people cannot afford to work then that is a fact of life. This is aimed at people who are working for others or who are unemployed and would like to make a living but have no money. Businesses because they are based on people helping people need no money and use no money.

You need to go to the web site to get the details. An economy cannot be explained in a post.

I certainly hope this explains things.

Robert

 

[KateCB]

You miss the point - you CAN'T pay your taxes as normal as you can't pay the Tax Man with services..he wants real money and if you have exchanged your services with someone else you don't HAVE real money.....

Where you DO hit the nail on the head is that it is based on 'friends helping out friends' and this is NOT an economy - an economy is where people can grow an prosper from their labours and the remuneration they receive- if my gardner friend cuts my lawn twice and I only give ONE remedial massage back, then technically he has TWO credit and I have only one and one debit to him - how does this help either of us?

I think a lot of people have made the same point - how will helping out friends pay our mortgage, or business rates - the local councils won't accept services or goods in kind (i.e. my gardener can't pay his business rates with 10 pounds of home grown potatoes) they want real, printed/minted money.

This would work well in a commune with no bills to pay - even then, communes tend to grow things to sell for money in order to afford things that people want money for - like medical expenses/dental/education/fabric to make clothes etc.

Nothing is FREE, you cannot live soley by exchanging skills, it is not possible.

 

[FreeBusiness]

You miss the point - you CAN'T pay your taxes as normal as you can't pay the Tax Man with services..he wants real money and if you have exchanged your services with someone else you don't HAVE real money.....

Where you DO hit the nail on the head is that it is based on 'friends helping out friends' and this is NOT an economy - an economy is where people can grow an prosper from their labours and the remuneration they receive- if my gardner friend cuts my lawn twice and I only give ONE remedial massage back, then technically he has TWO credit and I have only one and one debit to him - how does this help either of us?

I think a lot of people have made the same point - how will helping out friends pay our mortgage, or business rates - the local councils won't accept services or goods in kind (i.e. my gardener can't pay his business rates with 10 pounds of home grown potatoes) they want real, printed/minted money.

This would work well in a commune with no bills to pay - even then, communes tend to grow things to sell for money in order to afford things that people want money for - like medical expenses/dental/education/fabric to make clothes etc.

Nothing is FREE, you cannot live soley by exchanging skills, it is not possible.

Hi Kate
We seem to be talking about two totally different things. You are telling me what won't work and I am not telling you it will.

There are groups doing similer things as I advocate already, especially in England. The transitions network and LETS are two systems that do not use money and they are economies, not totally. You do not go from one form of doing business to another like flicking a light switch. The world evolves in incremental changes. So yes, you do need money to pay taxes so long as the tax man exists. I am telling you there is a very easy way to eliminate the need for a tax man.

Friends helping friends is the conceptual base, no that is not an economy. Why it is not an economy is because there is no system of accounts. If Sue helps Bill and receives a credit of $100. that does not mean Sue receives money. Think of it as direct deposit into Sues bank account.

If you get a college education, that does not pay the mortgage either, until you get a job. If you get a job selling and it takes 6 months to build up a clintele that does not pay the mortgage. So, no, the first day you implement this system, it will not pay the mortgage. The point is if sufficient people live this way their won't be any mortgage to pay, but yes, it takes time.

We all work to make money because we live in an economy that uses money. The weird thing is Banks do not use money with other Banks. They use basically the same system we should be using. A system of accounts that tracks transactions without the use of money.

Again, there is not a door you walk through where money is not used. It is a system that one builds up.

I do not think I am suposed to provide web links but it is very had to explain everything in posts. My site is coopparty com. I'm sure you can fill in the blanks

Thanks
Robert

 

[FreeBusiness]

I wish to thank everyone for their comments, which have been taken to heart expecially re the web site which I think has been improved.

Guild Cooperativism which is a name I use for my business model is based on friends helping friends. The exchanges however are treated as transactions and tracked using a system of accounts. Each family is a private business and everything they buy or sell, both goods and services are tracked in the same way businesses record their transactions.
No money changes hands but the national currancy units are used to record the transactions. Businesses are grouped together into a cooperative organization. This group serves the purpose of bank and insurance. Each person helps the others in their group and are paid in units of the national currancy as credits in their accounts. If they purchase goods or services then it is a debit to their account. Because money is not used in the exchanges within the group the group can exchange goods and services without the need for cash, which is often difficult to find. I Bill owes the group $1000. for services then the group finds ways of helping Bill provide services that will pay off this debt. The group works together towards everyones mutual benefit.
As the group obtains new members the opportunities for exchanges increases. When it gets to about 15 to 20 members it buds off daughter cells. Individuals gravitate to the cell in which they are most comfortable. Groups can then exchange with members of other groups. Groups eventually take over commercial businesses. This system eventually is able to iincoproate all state functions within itself as well as protect resources such as the ocean fisheries and air.
This is only a quick run through of a small part of the system but I hope it clarifies this aspect of the system.
Thank You
Robert

 

[silvermusic]

So yes, you do need money to pay taxes so long as the tax man exists. I am telling you there is a very easy way to eliminate the need for a tax man.

Now we really are getting into fantasy land.

The weird thing is Banks do not use money with other Banks. They use basically the same system we should be using. A system of accounts that tracks transactions without the use of money.

You'll be telling us next they don't pay tax on it either, come on get real. Tranactions where you see no physical money happen every day, in fact the only time I ever see real money these days is if I draw cash out of the cash point machine, otherwise it's all computer data and bits of paper. But you better be sure as hell you account for it all as HMRC will want their cut of it.

I've tollerated this thread as far as I can, but there are limits to how far I'll humour crackpot ideas.

 

[FreeBusiness]

Now we really are getting into fantasy land.



You'll be telling us next they don't pay tax on it either, come on get real. Tranactions where you see no physical money happen every day, in fact the only time I ever see real money these days is if I draw cash out of the cash point machine, otherwise it's all computer data and bits of paper. But you better be sure as hell you account for it all as HMRC will want their cut of it.

I've tollerated this thread as far as I can, but there are limits to how far I'll humour crackpot ideas.

Hi Silvermusic
What are taxes? They are payments for goods and services. Some countries pay a lot of taxes and get a lot of services, other countries pay less taxes and get fewer services. Taxes are paid roughly in propertion to the level of services you recieve from the govenment. Privatize all services (I know this is going to confuse you more) and governments vanish.

You agree with me about not using money and then you tell me that not using money is a crackpot idea. This is not capitalism. It is a different way of doing business. So long as there is government and we are using money we need money. We do not need money to help a friend out. They do not need money to help us. If our friend had a bakery and we were a butcher he would not need money to buy meat and we would not need money to buy bread, but we would record the transactions the way so much is already done, as numbers in an account.

If taxes are owed then yes, until things develop further along we have to find some omoney and pay taxes.

Hope this helps
Robert