FireFox Adblock Threatens downfall of Internet Commerce

[fisicx]

Dont think your getting it either.

If so flawed -take every single free newspaper, every single free radio station, every free tv station in fact, almost every single free resource and service internet or otherwise that rely on sponsorship and advertising and chuck them in the bin.

No, I didn't say every business model was flawed, just yours. You are using the advertising revenue to pay your contributors rather than pay for the site, that's the flaw.

Is this not the business model for Google Search?

Yes and I really don't have a problem with people blocking on site adsense. A site should be able to stand or fall on it's own merits rather than a reliance on third party adverts.

I use adsense on one of my sites, it earns about a pound/day. This is enough to pay for the hosting and a bit left over for Christmas. I could easily monetise the site and fill it with afilliate adverts but I don't need to, I'm not greedy. If the advertising fell through I'd would cause me any major upsets. Much like most of the information sites on the net. It's a labour of love rather than a money making machine.

 

[Phil_Rees]

That's a misleading statement.

They are not blocked in search pages. And anyway who would want to block them there, they are generally useful and relevant to the search.

It's Adsense ads that are blocked, and any way Adblock users can turn this on/off as they choose.

Incorrect - turn on adblock and do a google search and you will find the sponosored PPC click adverts have been removed.

 

[Robert Wheeler]

Who is realistically going to switch them on if they choose to? That is not the way advertising works. And how can they take the decision to switch Adblock off if they do not know the adverts are there when it is on?

 

[Phil_Rees]

No, I didn't say every business model was flawed, just yours. You are using the advertising revenue to pay your contributors rather than pay for the site, that's the flaw.

Incorrect, in fact i dont recall actually giving you the details of our full business model.

So you do not have the facts to make such a statement.

 

[Robert Wheeler]

No, I didn't say every business model was flawed, just yours. You are using the advertising revenue to pay your contributors rather than pay for the site, that's the flaw.

I am with Phil Rees here. This is a business model that has been proven effective for many years now in local newspapers and other media publications. It is only in the last ten years that these platforms have started to struggle, and much of it comes from the trends in new technologies. What Phil Rees presents strikes me as an effort to convert this established business model to a web based platform. I think his concerns are quite legitimate.

 

[fisicx]

Incorrect, in fact i dont recall actually giving you the details of our full business model.

So you do not have the facts to make such a statement.

Apologies, used the wrong description. You actually said:

Turn on adblock all ads but the prime ad block dissapear, which means my staff dont earn any revenue from Affiliate banners (which we choose carefully) and google adsense.

 

[Phil_Rees]

I am with Phil Rees here. This is a business model that has been proven effective for many years now in local newspapers and other media publications. It is only in the last ten years that these platforms have started to struggle, and much of it comes from the trends in new technologies. What Phil Rees presents strikes me as an effort to convert this established business model to a web based platform. I think his concerns are quite legitimate.

Thankyou, you clarify that quite well.

 

[Phil_Rees]

Apologies, used the wrong description. You actually said:

Thats correct.

It is one of the methods we generate revenue for our managers however it is not limited to just that. The premium adverts on our site as stated before are coded into the site rather than using affilate programmes.

However there are many services out there that do not have the revenue opporunitys that we are building and it is for those services and the long reaching impact on internet services as a whole I am concerned for.

This situation if allowed to continue not only effects website providers, it also effects any and all associated suppliers to those services.

My arguments are not selfish, but of genuine concern for the economy as a whole.

Without advertising business's suffer - period.

 

[Dawg]

Sorry if it's not intelligent enough for you. Mea culpa.

However, despite arcane arguments about what is and isn't blocked, it appears that your existing business model is not a winner, and never will be. At some stage there is a possibility that adblocking might be circumvented, but it will probably be in a way of no use to your existing model, and will certainly be too late.

That's on a macro level, if you like. On a micro level you seem set on broadcasting the flaw in your business model here, which, together with this thread being indexed by Google, can't be doing anything too positive for any short term gains you might be hoping for.

So; your model is crippled by factors outside your control, and you deem it intelligent to intransigently emphasize the factors which made this happen, possibly making a bad situation worse.

None of this mentions the derision you earn for the fatuous hyperbole about freedom of speech and censorship. That alone tainted any argument you make.

 

[Phil_Rees]

Sorry if it's not intelligent enough for you. Mea culpa.

However, despite arcane arguments about what is and isn't blocked, it appears that your existing business model is not a winner, and never will be. At some stage there is a possibility that adblocking might be circumvented, but it will probably be in a way of no use to your existing model, and will certainly be too late.

That's on a macro level, if you like. On a micro level you seem set on broadcasting the flaw in your business model here, which, together with this thread being indexed by Google, can't be doing anything too positive for any short term gains you might be hoping for.

So; your model is crippled by factors outside your control, and you deem it intelligent to intransigently emphasize the factors which made this happen, possibly making a bad situation worse.

None of this mentions the derision you earn for the fatuous hyperbole about freedom of speech and censorship. That alone tainted any argument you make.

Again, ill state you do not have access to our full business model so are not in the position to comment.

This discussion is regarding the impact of ADblock as a whole, not just on the limited ad banners on our own site (which incidently are not the main source of income for us, just a boost) and is common practice on many well known commcerical high content and high quality internet service providers websites.

Taking word of mouth aside your own business for example dog treats, whilst not requiring advertising revenue on your sites itself needs to be advertised (if you do or dont is imaterial for the purposes of this explination) either using traditional methods such as newspaper adverts, flyers, posters etc as well as SEO, PPC link backs etc etc

Now you may be lucky enough to have a bricks and morter business, which means you have traditional foot fall traffic and a local loyal trade. However if your business is predomintaly internet based, you have no choice but to advertise via a varity of mediums.

Remove that, and you business will have a very very very slow growth.

Advertising generates sales - sales are the life blood of business.

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

So; your model is crippled by factors outside your control, and you deem it intelligent to intransigently emphasize the factors which made this happen, possibly making a bad situation worse.

None of this mentions the derision you earn for the fatuous hyperbole about freedom of speech and censorship. That alone tainted any argument you make.

You know you're a copywriting nerd when you enjoy reading those two paragraphs purely because of the words used.

 

[Nickdavis87]

Adblock is a lifestyle thing, some people are happy to see the ads, some are not.

At the end of the day i think you will be shooting yourself in the foot if you ban people with adblock. It would appear (from how worried about it you are) that you use ads that are ppc or affiliate based. If you want to compat the adblock issue you need to get advertisers on board who pay per month etc so the people using adblock become less of an issue.

 

[Kev Jaques]

I can see this is a passionate issue as it keeps popping to the top of the new posts, need to get adblock filter on that to stop it coming up

Whether we like it or not, trying to get 50 million plus people to stop using Adblock is going to take more than a forum thread, it's failed to convert most of the people replying here.
Have you spoken to the developers of the plugin to get any official response from this?
You would need to be throwing large amounts of money at a campaign to stop this! Would this money (or time and effort) not be better spent trying to rid the world of disease and famine and warfare than argue the toss over something which people can choose to use if they like to or not or are priorities a bit twisted?

 

[Phil_Rees]

If i can recall there are a few companies that are preparing civil suits against the developers - will take me some time to dig that information out.

 

[Phil_Rees]

Adblock is a lifestyle thing, some people are happy to see the ads, some are not.

At the end of the day i think you will be shooting yourself in the foot if you ban people with adblock. It would appear (from how worried about it you are) that you use ads that are ppc or affiliate based. If you want to compat the adblock issue you need to get advertisers on board who pay per month etc so the people using adblock become less of an issue.

Our plan is to use a combination of both along with a number of free services such as free classified ads, free auto trades, free property trades, free job posting, free premium business directory listings, social networking and some other features im not willing to disclose yet.

Each of those features have sponsored banner locations at the top which are paid for by companies wishing to reach our readers using the free content. The affiliate and google plugins are used to balance that out when there is no sponsor for that section.

 

[cjd]

I think you need to ask yourself why adblocking is so popular - I would suggest that it's likely to be because people hate ads on web sites.

The argument that your right of free speech is being harmed is fabulous and made my day, but it is a tad flawed:

• You have a right to build a website.
• I have a right to visit it.
• You have a right to say what you like on it.
• I have a right to listen, go away, put you on mute or just listen to the bits I like.
• You have the right to prevent me picking and choosing, if you can, and if it makes business sense.
• Simples.

 

[Phil_Rees]

I think you need to ask yourself why adblocking is so popular - I would suggest that it's likely to be because people hate ads on web sites.

The argument that your right of free speech is being harmed is fabulous and made my day, but it is a tad flawed:

• You have a right to build a website.
• I have a right to visit it.
• You have a right to say what you like on it.
• I have a right to listen, go away, put you on mute or just listen to the bits I like.
• You have the right to prevent me picking and choosing, if you can, and if it makes business sense.
• Simples.

Without any doubt, people dislike adverts they also dislike telemarketing, flyers through doors etc etc

But love it or hate it, its a neccesary evil.

People dont buy if they dont know what is available, if all advertising and promotion was removed sales drop, companies go out of business and next thing you know, we have an even worse global recession than we are currently experiancing.

 

[lockie]

At the end of the day the reason it is gaining in popularity is because many are fed up with being bombarded with adverts.Adblock gives the consumer what they want like any good business should.

You have a few choices:

A. Carry on crusading about how bad it is and dont change your business model.

B. Adapt the business to the new trading conditions you will now encounter.

C. Take up knitting after your business withers from lack of change.

No correct answer but i know i would prefer B as my answer as isnt that what business is all about ?

Remember how bad tescos was back in the eighties ? Why do you think they got so big ? They CHANGED how they did things.

Moan all you like about how bad it all is but will that affect your business in any positive way ?


Put the energy into making the changes you need to overcome this new problem your encountering

 

[Phil_Rees]

At the end of the day the reason it is gaining in popularity is because many are fed up with being bombarded with adverts.Adblock gives the consumer what they want like any good business should.

You have a few choices:

A. Carry on crusading about how bad it is and dont change your business model.

B. Adapt the business to the new trading conditions you will now encounter.

C. Take up knitting after your business withers from lack of change.

No correct answer but i know i would prefer B as my answer as isnt that what business is all about ?

Remember how bad tescos was back in the eighties ? Why do you think they got so big ? They CHANGED how they did things.

Moan all you like about how bad it all is but will that affect your business in any positive way ?


Put the energy into making the changes you need to overcome this new problem your encountering

As stated several times my concern is not my business model, but the effect adblock will have on commerce as a whole.

We are already reacting to the ADblock curse as mentioned before.

However this does not mean i will not campaign to at the very least to have adblock removed from the firefox extension list or to continue to raise awareness concerning the long term problems and implications of this type of software will cause ALL of us in the future. As i mentioned popular does not mean right.

Your business relies on advertising does it not?

And possibly communication with emergency services and some word of mouth.

How would you get NEW business if you where not allowed to advertise - knocking door to door, use of a town crier?

No, you place adverts in newspapers, internet sites, radio, flyers in stores etc.

ADBlock and programmes like it ARE a serious threat and like it or not im not the only one campaigning against it.

 

[lex]

Here is some information for you Phil Rees.

I use adblock plus, i use google and the ads aren't blocked and i dont have it disabled on google.com/.co.uk.

Your block adblock plus site, doesnt work, i can access the sites who are supposedly restricted to adblock users just fine, they just released a patch so im guessing that solved your wonder fix

 

[Phil_Rees]

Here is some information for you Phil Rees.

I use adblock plus, i use google and the ads aren't blocked and i dont have it disabled on google.com/.co.uk.

Your block adblock plus site, doesnt work, i can access the sites who are supposedly restricted to adblock users just fine, they just released a patch so im guessing that solved your wonder fix

Type block adblock into google, your find that not to be true.

It also depends on the filters you have activated, easylist being the most common and when i activate it all google adwords ads, adsense ads, yahoo, msn etc etc are blocked.

And this has become such a concern that numourous solutions are being developed, just type block adblock into google and your will see countless of them such as

http://www.adblock.org/2004/07/adblock_detection_demo/

 

[KM-Tiger]

It also depends on the filters you have activated, easylist being the most common and when i activate it all google adwords ads, adsense ads, yahoo, msn etc etc are blocked.

But not on Google search pages. Which is what I pointed out to you before.

And this has become such a concern that numourous solutions are being developed, just type block adblock into google and your will see countless of them such as

http://www.adblock.org/2004/07/adblock_detection_demo/

If you also have the NoScript extension - which many who are concerned about security will have - then that intrusive popup doesn't work. I only allow javascript to execute on trusted sites.

 

[Spiderden]

But not on Google search pages. Which is what I pointed out to you before.
.

It does block ads on Google search pages!

I only installed it earlier, used the subscription at the top of the list, and hey presto, no AdWords on Google search pages.

 

[Phil_Rees]

Actually it does on google seach engine pages as well.

I only use google for my searches and have been playing with the adblocker for a few days now.

When its turned on and i type into google search the sponsored ads at the top are removed and the block to the right. Id take screen shots to show it but cant be bothered.

EDIT - Another thought, if your adwords ad's are not appearing, unless you are lucky to be ranked on the first page of google and then in the top three or five your webtraffic is going to be floored if everyone is blocking the ad's -- pretty much makes internet marketing useless then.

 

[Spiderden]

But not on Google search pages. Which is what I pointed out to you before.
.

Where have all the ads gone?

Default settings, 1st suvscription on the list.

 

[cjd]

I'd like to see the proof that fewer adverts on the internet would harm the economy; no adverts does not equal no marketing and the internet is an ideal medium for doing far more creative things than dumb and intrusive banner ads.

Simple ads are mostly good for the advertising businesses that make and sell them and not so good for the businesses that use them - the days when consumers took much notice of simple adverts are long gone and won't be coming back; thank god.

 

[Phil_Rees]

I'd like to see the proof that fewer adverts on the internet would harm the economy; no adverts does not equal no marketing and the internet is an ideal medium for doing far more creative things than dumb and intrusive banner ads.

Simple ads are mostly good for the advertising businesses that make and sell them and not so good for the businesses that use them - the days when consumers took much notice of simple adverts are long gone and won't be coming back; thank god.

Adblock is not just fewer though is it, its 99% and the amount of users spreading so rapidly will have an effect. Ive even noticed it on some of my sites already those that are popular with firefox users have had a decrease in revenue whilst those more popular with IE users have had less of a decrease.

You know for us adblock is a good thing, our adverts for our customers will be coded in which means we could if we wanted charge a higher premium for them - but then that just harms other business who will be unable to afford to advertise.

Advertising is essential to business there is no getting around that factor.

 

[Gillie]

OMG does it really take a woman to point out the blindingly obvious on the above screenshot and statement??

Who the hell is going to pay to put ads on a page whereby people are looking up how to stop them?? Doh!!!!!!!!!!

Go find another phrase and google that and you will see that ABP does NOT block out the ppc and sponsored ads on their main index page.

I have ABP installed, mainly to help me cope better with this forum as the ad server and forum server take time to join up their persuasive powers and it creates a slow forum for me. But everytime the ads are changed, I have to go and block the new ones - therefore I do get to see what is happening and I then make the choice to not view them ...

Aint that what freedom of speech and all that is about ... choice??

 

[Spiderden]

OMG does it really take a woman to point out the blindingly obvious on the above screenshot and statement??

Who the hell is going to pay to put ads on a page whereby people are looking up how to stop them?? Doh!!!!!!!!!!

In fact, there were a couple of ads on there when the screen shot was taken earler. Doh!!!!!!
So someone targets it!

Image changed to a more popular phrase to make it easier for you.

 

[Spiderden]

Go find another phrase and google that and you will see that ABP does NOT block out the ppc and sponsored ads on their main index page.

Take another look at the image.

Would you like cream with your humble pie?

 

[Phil_Rees]

OMG does it really take a woman to point out the blindingly obvious on the above screenshot and statement??

Who the hell is going to pay to put ads on a page whereby people are looking up how to stop them?? Doh!!!!!!!!!!

Go find another phrase and google that and you will see that ABP does NOT block out the ppc and sponsored ads on their main index page.

I have ABP installed, mainly to help me cope better with this forum as the ad server and forum server take time to join up their persuasive powers and it creates a slow forum for me. But everytime the ads are changed, I have to go and block the new ones - therefore I do get to see what is happening and I then make the choice to not view them ...

Aint that what freedom of speech and all that is about ... choice??

Oh dear Gills here, im in trouble now

How you doing hunny

 

[Gillie]

Again I state ... it doesnt interfere .. so suggest you try the humble pie first!

I can see all ads ... as Dawg has also stated as have others - suggest you have 'done' something wrong to your settings ...

 

[Gillie]

Oh dear Gills here, im in trouble now

How you doing hunny

Why on earth are you getting your knickers in a twist about people using their right of choice ... already been said ... we see the adverts, then choose to block em!

 

[KM-Tiger]

Where have all the ads gone?

Default settings, 1st suvscription on the list.

OK your screenshot shows there is a difference, as with that same search I do see the Adwords ads. Which is what prompted me to say they were not blocked.

I would guess the difference is version, I have Adblock+ v 1.01 here, which is not the latest. Perhaps you have 1.02?

Personally I would enable Adwords on search pages - which is easy enough to do - as I find them useful.

 

[Gillie]

KM - I have the latest version of both firefox and ADP as of this morning and I can still see em! You aint loosing the plot dear friend!

 

[Phil_Rees]

I installed the adblock plus version 1.1.1 which with the use of easylist blocks the google ads as well.

 

[Phil_Rees]

With ADblock
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/O5nZOvsY0roUbdbTyQriUQ?feat=directlinkhttp://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/mgvLtgd7rnwVHczheVhn2g?feat=directlink
Without Adblock
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/6q07LnvRO4wNitX3Ye-RLQ?feat=directlink

 

[Spiderden]

I can see all ads ... as Dawg has also stated as have others - suggest you have 'done' something wrong to your settings ...

Nope, I only installed it today and haven't changed any settings. That result is from a default install.

OK your screenshot shows there is a difference, as with that same search I do see the Adwords ads. Which is what prompted me to say they were not blocked.

I would guess the difference is version, I have Adblock+ v 1.01 here, which is not the latest. Perhaps you have 1.02?
.

It's v1.11, which probably explains the differences.

 

[Spiderden]

KM - I have the latest version of both firefox and ADP as of this morning and I can still see em! You aint loosing the plot dear friend!

If you had a previous version installed, perhaps it kept your settings when you upgraded, but when you do a fresh install, the new version blocks Google by default.

 

[Dawg]

Just FYI: FF, ABP 1.1.1 default settings, (with No script 1.9.8.1, default)