Employing 14 year old

[hich]

My private ltd co has no employees and I am only the director.
My son's school is offering a 1 -week work experience and I am considering using his help for some limited task to do with IT.
What is involved in this type of hiring?
Do I need to contact the local council of the registered office? Or where we live?
What's involved in paying him a salary?

Rds,

 

[Frank the Insurance guy]

Hi @hich ,

You must have Employers Liability Insurance - this is a legal requirement (Schools will usually want to see your Employer's Liability certificate as evidence that you have the legal cover before agreeing to work experience!).

In terms of paying, @Newchodge will be able to advise. I'm sure she'll be along soon!

 

[fisicx]

Most companies just give the child a thank you bonus at the end on their experience. No need for employment. The daughter of a friend got £80 at the end of the week.

 

[Newchodge]

If the child is employed you need permission from the council and there are a lot of rules around their permitted working hours. I agree with @fisicx above, if it is only for work experience don't employ them. Get Employer's Liability insurance and give them a bonus at the end of the week. You may want to contact the local authority anyway, given what this says about invalidating insurance.

Child employment

Minimum working age and pay for children, how to apply for performance licences and what local council bylaws say about employing children, paying someone over 16

www.gov.uk

 

[hich]

I gather this is something called "work experience". So it doesn't enter in the scope of Employment law.
Is there such a official distinction? This is for 1 single week (5 business days )

 

[fisicx]

Work experience is just that. You introduce them to the business and give them experience at various roles. If they do a good job give them a cash gift before they leave on Friday. If they are useless and skive off they get nothing.

 

[Frank the Insurance guy]

I gather this is something called "work experience". So it doesn't enter in the scope of Employment law.
Is there such a official distinction? This is for 1 single week (5 business days )

It does for the purpose of Employers Liability Insurance requirements - where you have any employees, including any volunteers, work experience etc, you must hold Employers Liability Insurance.

 

[antropy]

My private ltd co has no employees and I am only the director.
My son's school is offering a 1 -week work experience and I am considering using his help for some limited task to do with IT.

The fact that anyone has to jump through a load of bureaucratic paperwork hoops to let their son help them on the computer for a week is absolutely ridiculous.

Paul.

 

[Newchodge]

The fact that anyone has to jump through a load of bureaucratic paperwork hoops to let their son help them on the computer for a week is absolutely ridiculous.

Paul.

It would be if it were true. As mentioned, if the child is not employed, there is no issue except insurance.

 

[ethical PR]

My private ltd co has no employees and I am only the director.
My son's school is offering a 1 -week work experience and I am considering using his help for some limited task to do with IT.
What is involved in this type of hiring?
Do I need to contact the local council of the registered office? Or where we live?
What's involved in paying him a salary?

Rds,

You don't pay a salary for work experience

 

[antropy]

It would be if it were true. As mentioned, if the child is not employed, there is no issue except insurance.

Even insurance to have you own son in your own house on a computer is absurd.

Paul.

 

[Newchodge]

Even insurance to have you own son in your own house on a computer is absurd.

Paul.

This is a formal work placement, organised by the school. They will not allow any of the children for whom they have responsibility to attend a work placement without the proper insurance in place.

The child can spend as much time as he likes helping his father on the computer. Just not as part of a formal work placement.

The school has a responsibility to check all placements do not require the child to clean chimneys!

 

[antropy]

This is a formal work placement, organised by the school. They will not allow any of the children for whom they have responsibility to attend a work placement without the proper insurance in place.

Even so, it's clearly nonsense.

Paul.

 

[UKSBD]

Even so, it's clearly nonsense.

Paul.

Nonsense until an accident happens and then they go after the school.

 

[antropy]

Nonsense until an accident happens and then they go after the school.

Who goes after the school? The 14 year old pupil or their dad who's letting them use a computer?

Paul.

 

[Newchodge]

Who goes after the school? The 14 year old pupil or their dad who's letting them use a computer?

Paul.

The Health and Safety Executive.

 

[fisicx]

Who goes after the school? The 14 year old pupil or their dad who's letting them use a computer?

Have you ever been involved with work experience? If there were an accident it has to be reported to the school.

It’s a well organised and very successful scheme. The paperwork is minimal and almost all pupils get great benefit from the experience.

 

[antropy]

If none of you think the state of affairs where this is required in this case is absurd then there really is no helping you.

Paul.

 

[Duke Fame]

Offer him a training position as an apprentice. You can claim the VAT back on the school fees as part of the training costs.

 

[NickGrogan]

It would be if it were true. As mentioned, if the child is not employed, there is no issue except insurance.

Can the child be employed, or is there a problem with that, assuming that they want to employ them.

 

[NickGrogan]

If there were an accident it has to be reported to the school.

Who is going to report it? The father or the son? Both seem unlikely

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

Isn't the whole idea of Work Experience to expose youngsters to timekeeping, rules, regulations and expectations of an employer. To enable them to mix with people of varying ages in a different environment who aren't Teachers or family?

What of the above is he going to get from helping Dad for a week?

 

[Newchodge]

Can the child be employed, or is there a problem with that, assuming that they want to employ them.

Yes, as long as the local authority agrees and the rules are kept.

 

[Frank the Insurance guy]

Even insurance to have you own son in your own house on a computer is absurd.

Paul.

If none of you think the state of affairs where this is required in this case is absurd then there really is no helping you.

Paul.

Hi @antropy ,

If this was a sole trader then Employers' Liability Insurance is not required.

A Limited company is an entity in its own right and therefore the Ltd company is required to have the insurance in place.

If an injury occurred, the child would be claiming against the ltd company, not their father.

 

[antropy]

A Limited company is an entity in its own right and therefore the Ltd company is required to have the insurance in place.

Yes, I know, I've run one for 16 years with the right insurance in place.

I'm just staying it's ridiculous.

Paul.

 

[fisicx]

It is however unlikely they will allow the placement. You don’t normally get your own offspring.

 

[NickGrogan]

Yes, as long as the local authority agrees and the rules are kept.

Why would the local authority need to agree?

 

[NickGrogan]

It is however unlikely they will allow the placement. You don’t normally get your own offspring.

There is a constant shortage of work placement places, and most people leave it late.

I have given my own children work experience several times, and I have also been asked if I can take other children.

 

[Porky]

The school has a responsibility to check all placements do not require the child to clean chimneys

What? that is absurd, so you are telling me now that I can’t have the little rug rats cleaning out chimney’s - what is it coming to, bloody labour government!

 

[Newchodge]

Why would the local authority need to agree?

It's the law.

 

[eteb3]

If this was a sole trader then Employers' Liability Insurance is not required.

This is not my understanding. The school at least will want insurance for sure : the placement is part of the education they provide under their statutory duty. It’s not an authorised absence from school but a school day off-site. They remain responsible for the child.

I’m also not convinced a sole trader doesn’t need insurance from their pov. If a sole trader can employ (they can, ask @paulears) then they must get employers liability for employees. Why would it be different in their case for a volunteer, where a limited would need insurance?

@OP when I was a teacher this came up regularly. If you don’t want to pay insurance you’ll have to keep him off school and chance a fine. That way the school’s responsibility for him is less - but expect the usual grief because their responsibility for absent students is far from zero

 

[Newchodge]

This is not my understanding. The school at least will want insurance for sure : the placement is part of the education they provide under their statutory duty. It’s not an authorised absence from school but a school day off-site. They remain responsible for the child.

I’m also not convinced a sole trader doesn’t need insurance from their pov. If a sole trader can employ (they can, ask @paulears) then they must get employers liability for employees. Why would it be different in their case for a volunteer, where a limited would need insurance?

@OP when I was a teacher this came up regularly. If you don’t want to pay insurance you’ll have to keep him off school and chance a fine. That way the school’s responsibility for him is less - but expect the usual grief because their responsibility for absent students is far from zero

Sole Traders who employ staff do require Employer's Liability Insurance, but it may not be needed if the only employee is a family member.

 

[Frank the Insurance guy]

If this was a sole trader then Employers' Liability Insurance is not required.

This is not my understanding. The school at least will want insurance for sure : the placement is part of the education they provide under their statutory duty. It’s not an authorised absence from school but a school day off-site. They remain responsible for the child.

I’m also not convinced a sole trader doesn’t need insurance from their pov. If a sole trader can employ (they can, ask @paulears) then they must get employers liability for employees. Why would it be different in their case for a volunteer, where a limited would need insurance?

@OP when I was a teacher this came up regularly. If you don’t want to pay insurance you’ll have to keep him off school and chance a fine. That way the school’s responsibility for him is less - but expect the usual grief because their responsibility for absent students is far from zero

My comment relates to the legal requirement for Employers Liability Insurance - it is not required for sole traders employing family members - the law provides an exemption for:

"family businesses, ie if all of your employees are closely related to you (as husband, wife, civil partner, father, mother, grandfather, grandmother, stepfather, stepmother, son, daughter, grandson, granddaughter, stepson, stepdaughter, brother, sister, half-brother or half-sister). However, this exemption does not apply to family businesses which are incorporated as limited companies;"

As you say, the school or local authority may ask for it anyway, but it is not legally required.