D
draelectricals
- Original Poster
- #82
Did you see the Wheelbarrow boys last night?
Does anyone else agree with me (it was a popular chat on twitter last night) but they must be complete fools. They've asked for 50k for a 10% stake in the business but they had no interest in negotiating. They were offered the money for 50% but rather than try to get them down to say 40% they said no outright.
So boys currently you have no dragon on board and are making a little bit of money. You were offered the chance to get 2 dragons on board with a 50k investment and you told them where to go.
You're entire pitch was based on how much money you would make with a dragon on board so they had you by the short and curlies as you said you needed them to make money, so it was totally right of Duncan Bannatyne to ask for 50% because you needed him to make the money. Then 2 dragons make the same offer so it's a 50% split which is fair because YOU need them more than they need you. 50% of what they can make you is better than 50% of what you'll make yourself with that attitude.
If you're not prepared to negotiate don't do your pitch.
Does anyone else agree with me (it was a popular chat on twitter last night) but they must be complete fools. They've asked for 50k for a 10% stake in the business but they had no interest in negotiating. They were offered the money for 50% but rather than try to get them down to say 40% they said no outright.
So boys currently you have no dragon on board and are making a little bit of money. You were offered the chance to get 2 dragons on board with a 50k investment and you told them where to go.
You're entire pitch was based on how much money you would make with a dragon on board so they had you by the short and curlies as you said you needed them to make money, so it was totally right of Duncan Bannatyne to ask for 50% because you needed him to make the money. Then 2 dragons make the same offer so it's a 50% split which is fair because YOU need them more than they need you. 50% of what they can make you is better than 50% of what you'll make yourself with that attitude.
If you're not prepared to negotiate don't do your pitch.
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To be honest I thought thier main idea for usage was the lighter stuff like leaves, twigs and grass cuttings etc. My initial thought is how easy would it be to empty this huge bag load?
The father was a bit of a plonker, too agressive and clearly didnt want to negotiate at all. It left me feeling sorry for the Son, as I am sure without his father being tere he would of walked away with a very good offer.
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D
draelectricals
- Original Poster
- #86
I wondered how once the bag was on, how easy would it be to unload. When the wheelbarrow was tipped wouldn't the bag crumple? Would that stop all the load coming out?
The son would have got the deal, the father could only see the £ signs; or at least the £ signs for his share. Someone had said half a million to him and he had in his head he was going to make half a million. If someone comes in at 50% he'd only get half that - greed ruined him
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C
ChoosyReviews
- Original Poster
- #88
Sorry if this has been said, as I just read the first and last pages:
I used to find it much more interesting when the dragons seemed to take a few proper risks (years ago).
There are still exceptions and indeed many who need to be shown the door, but it is VERY, VERY often than the questions are along the lines of:
Is it making good money? 'No' - then the company is not WORTH the valuation, I'm out.
Is it making good money? 'Yes' - then you don't need my money, I'm out.
Yes, there's more to it and yes it's 'business', but it just doesn't seem to be so exciting - where some housewife has a great idea that they need a bunch of help with...
...but I'll still be watching!
I used to find it much more interesting when the dragons seemed to take a few proper risks (years ago).
There are still exceptions and indeed many who need to be shown the door, but it is VERY, VERY often than the questions are along the lines of:
Is it making good money? 'No' - then the company is not WORTH the valuation, I'm out.
Is it making good money? 'Yes' - then you don't need my money, I'm out.
Yes, there's more to it and yes it's 'business', but it just doesn't seem to be so exciting - where some housewife has a great idea that they need a bunch of help with...
...but I'll still be watching!
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They did not want the dragons.
How much would it cost for 10 minutes advertising on TV.?
They also got 100% endorsements for there product from the dragons.
So who wins.
The famous five,or the shrewd duo.?
Plus they don't have to work with the obnoxious little twits.
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Plus they don't have to work with the obnoxious little twits.
Those obnoxious little twits who individually have probably achieved more in the last year than the majority of people (combined) on this forum will ever achieve in their whole lifetime?
The politics of envy are not attractive.
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I did. In the context of the discussion and the purpose of the forum.
Why don't you go find another forum more suited to the type of posts you choose to make and their content, because really you're doing nothing more than trolling here and trying to wind people up.
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One suspects that anyone who can get wound up by other peoples opinions,must by definition have rather shaky core beliefs.
http://www.gresham.ac.uk/lectures-a...-wound-up-why-emotions-are-so-hard-to-control
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I love how james khan appear so to be such a nice guy on TV but having worked with a few people who worked for him - apperently he is a complete dick. Although everything is subjective! I like dragons den, some people start squirming under the questions. Slightly wierd to watch but entertaining!
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They did not want the dragons.
How much would it cost for 10 minutes advertising on TV.?
They also got 100% endorsements for there product from the dragons.
So who wins.
The famous five,or the shrewd duo.?
Plus they don't have to work with the obnoxious little twits.
Did you hear what Evan said at the end of the show?
Was it A or B?
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Why am I the one whose in the wrong or lacking something because I actually stand up to you and call you out rather than just passively ignore your inane wittering?
If people stand by and let it happen, then it just ends up as tacit approval and whilst I'm not wound up, I'm concerned that you effectively make this forum look farcical with your never ending inanity.
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Why is it you seem to need to get personal in most of your debates where you disagree with another persons opinion even though you have no idea of what that person is like.?:|
wiki has this policy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:No_personal_attacks
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Good heavens, that's not personal at all. In fact there's not one word of it that's anything other than plain fact.
You're now lashing out with generalisations as a defence mechanism. It seems perfectly acceptable for you to say what the heck you like to other people but when you're called on it you're crying for the "personal attack" vote?
If you can't handle it, don't dish it out.
You're now lashing out with generalisations as a defence mechanism. It seems perfectly acceptable for you to say what the heck you like to other people but when you're called on it you're crying for the "personal attack" vote?
If you can't handle it, don't dish it out.
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I wish I didn't waste my time watching this DD episode.
I am on the side of the "wheelbarrow guys". As stupid as their strategy was, the Dragons had no right to emotionally disassemble their intentions to broker a deal. If 10% or 11% wasn't enough... say "I wont be investing, so I'm out!"
I actually think the whole "I wont go to 11.5%" was an attempt of negotiation (perhaps to 30% or 40%) but 50% was too much for them.
To then brand the father as out of order (I assume an equal shareholder) as his son will inherit the business was shocking. So what? His son doesn't own his stake at this moment in time and legally has no additional rights in the business.
I really appreciate that he held his own under principle and didn't get forced into emotional blackmail to give away more of the business than they hoped. With that attitude in the Den from the Dragons - its likely you cannot work with them, 50% stake is out of question - they did the right thing to walk away from the deal. They walked away with some great publicity and probably 2 in 3 gardeners who watch the show are interested in the product. Result. Discuss?
I am on the side of the "wheelbarrow guys". As stupid as their strategy was, the Dragons had no right to emotionally disassemble their intentions to broker a deal. If 10% or 11% wasn't enough... say "I wont be investing, so I'm out!"
I actually think the whole "I wont go to 11.5%" was an attempt of negotiation (perhaps to 30% or 40%) but 50% was too much for them.
To then brand the father as out of order (I assume an equal shareholder) as his son will inherit the business was shocking. So what? His son doesn't own his stake at this moment in time and legally has no additional rights in the business.
I really appreciate that he held his own under principle and didn't get forced into emotional blackmail to give away more of the business than they hoped. With that attitude in the Den from the Dragons - its likely you cannot work with them, 50% stake is out of question - they did the right thing to walk away from the deal. They walked away with some great publicity and probably 2 in 3 gardeners who watch the show are interested in the product. Result. Discuss?
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I thought it was pretty good. The only issue is that I have used that park at my house or whatever its called and although its been around along time there isn't much on there.
I'm normally looking for train station parking and have found that not only is there little choice, what is there is only very slightly cheaper than the train station itself and you're parking further away!
The other danger is 'dilution', if lots of sites spring up doing this the data gets scattered with no one useful place for prospects to search out parking.
Gary
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It would not work for me as I could sniff out a space anywhere, even Wembley when big games are on I still manage to park as close as I can even if that means a small one stop on the tube it is much quicker and cheaper and the Tube is open so its pretty much accepted the travel will be free.
A lot of people see a yellow line / permit areas and don't fully understand the signage.
On the other hand a lady opposite me rents out her driveway and it is occupied virtually every day, 8 minute walk to the station, even had caravans on it, so there is a market for it, just for me Id rather never pay for parking.
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i think the body language and the way the father replied was the issue. There are massive ego's in the den and to try to 'take them on' is not a good strategy esp. on national tv! If they were looking for an experienced investors time and money and then seem so rigid in negotiation that was a mistake IMO.
unless they were there to get some publicity, in which case they done well!
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unless they were there to get some publicity, in which case they done well!
I think that was Evan's point
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No but it is good for publicity and brand awareness
No different to any VC funding, still be looking to give up 25-48% equity. Only difference would be you can print out your sales and revenue projections and show them rather than some circus stunt to remember everything for the purposes of TV.
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Anyone in the forum apply for the Den ? if so when would an applicant hear after submitting application to enter the Den - Yes applied after last series ended -
Duncan lives not far from me and very tempted to go direct as believe he is the man , but like the thought of the exposure the Den would give my product and company
Would like to prove the concept first - I think Theo would be ideal for my concept also with his new acquired DIY chain - these guy walk the walk rather then talk the talk (get me on the Den)
Duncan lives not far from me and very tempted to go direct as believe he is the man , but like the thought of the exposure the Den would give my product and company
Would like to prove the concept first - I think Theo would be ideal for my concept also with his new acquired DIY chain - these guy walk the walk rather then talk the talk (get me on the Den)
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Hi , thanks for that, you are right about the canopy as this was suggested to me from machine specialists, who had connections to B&Q (SPONSORSHIP TOOL) advertising - but was too busy developing to give it real thought , but now you say this also
Yeah have big plans for RipRak this year
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