Constructive dismissal? (this stinks a bit to me!!)

[rlellie14]

This relates to a friend of a friend so details second hand but correct I think. Currently she is working on an away job, in a hotel many miles away from friends and fam, working for a company she has been with for 10+ years.

Last night out the blue she received an email from her manager via HR telling her the company is not happy with her performance and they want to give her 2 months notice + small amount of gardening leave and they want her to sign her agreement in next 2 weeks.

Some points to make:

• She had been told 2 or 3 times over the last year that she was underperforming but all her requests to discuss it further were ignored. She literally has no idea how she is underperforming or what to do to put it right.
• The KPI's of her team are BETTER than the KPI's of her managers other team!
• She returned to work in October having had a few weeks off for depression/stress - possibly/probably work related although I don't have further info.
• She recently requested a minor alteration to her hours (she wanted to do 4.5 days per week rather than 5 days per week to enable her to do some volunteering - good for mental health/work-life balance). Rejected.
• At no time was there any 'protected conversation' related to the nature of the email - it literally came out of the blue, on email, no verbal discussion at all.
• The manager who told HR to send the email is supposed to be retiring soon and has hired a replacement. But now she has suddenly decided to stay but the person taken on to replace her is also staying. Sounds all a bit fishy and premeditated to me but difficult to prove it was al part of the plan I guess.
• Goes without saying the company are not making any redundancies and redundancy has never been mentioned.
• Company have a recent history of forcing people out in similar circumstances - clearly it's run by pretty revolting people.
• Understandably she is distraught and sickened by the whole thing (and being miles away from home/friends/family with a history of depression - particularly cruel)

Strangely she wants to stay with the company as she enjoys working with her team. Personally after all this I don't think it's possible, I'd be running a mile.

To my limited knowledge of employment law it looks like the company have done everything wrong and if a constructive dismissal case were brought the judge would find in her favour immediately. Agreed?

A few questions:

• What should she do now?! Resign immediately? She is going to continue going to this away job for the next 2 days then she is meant to be in the office for Thurs/Fri.
• How should she reply to the letter?
• Does she need/would she benefit from a union rep? How would she find one?
• Do employment lawyers take on cases like these on a no win-no fee basis?

Thanks!

 

[simon field]

This relates to a friend of a friend so details second hand but correct I think. Currently she is working on an away job, in a hotel many miles away from friends and fam, working for a company she has been with for 10+ years.

Last night out the blue she received an email from her manager via HR telling her the company is not happy with her performance and they want to give her 2 months notice + small amount of gardening leave and they want her to sign her agreement in next 2 weeks.

Some points to make:

• She had been told 2 or 3 times over the last year that she was underperforming but all her requests to discuss it further were ignored. She literally has no idea how she is underperforming or what to do to put it right.
• The KPI's of her team are BETTER than the KPI's of her managers other team!
• She returned to work in October having had a few weeks off for depression/stress - possibly/probably work related although I don't have further info.
• She recently requested a minor alteration to her hours (she wanted to do 4.5 days per week rather than 5 days per week to enable her to do some volunteering - good for mental health/work-life balance). Rejected.
• At no time was there any 'protected conversation' related to the nature of the email - it literally came out of the blue, on email, no verbal discussion at all.
• The manager who told HR to send the email is supposed to be retiring soon and has hired a replacement. But now she has suddenly decided to stay but the person taken on to replace her is also staying. Sounds all a bit fishy and premeditated to me but difficult to prove it was al part of the plan I guess.
• Goes without saying the company are not making any redundancies and redundancy has never been mentioned.
• Company have a recent history of forcing people out in similar circumstances - clearly it's run by pretty revolting people.
• Understandably she is distraught and sickened by the whole thing (and being miles away from home/friends/family with a history of depression - particularly cruel)

Strangely she wants to stay with the company as she enjoys working with her team. Personally after all this I don't think it's possible, I'd be running a mile.

To my limited knowledge of employment law it looks like the company have done everything wrong and if a constructive dismissal case were brought the judge would find in her favour immediately. Agreed?

A few questions:

• What should she do now?! Resign immediately? She is going to continue going to this away job for the next 2 days then she is meant to be in the office for Thurs/Fri.
• How should she reply to the letter?
• Does she need/would she benefit from a union rep? How would she find one?
• Do employment lawyers take on cases like these on a no win-no fee basis?

Thanks!

Probably one for @Newchodge

But yeah, I’d run a mile and find something else.

 

[Fagin2021]

Probably one for @Newchodge

But yeah, I’d run a mile and find something else.

Definitely one for @Newchodge but I'd advise her to sit tight until the legal position is clarified. It might be awkward but she doesn't want to do anything that might unwittingly prejudice a claim.

 

[Mark T Jones]

As in all these cases, we are hearing one side of a story, & it's second hand.

@Newchodge will certainly be your best source of advice here, but I'd suggest that your friend creates a factual, non-emotive timeline of events and facts.

 

[Newchodge]

I don't understand your post.

Last night out the blue she received an email from her manager via HR telling her the company is not happy with her performance and they want to give her 2 months notice + small amount of gardening leave and they want her to sign her agreement in next 2 weeks.

What agreement?

To my limited knowledge of employment law it looks like the company have done everything wrong and if a constructive dismissal case were brought the judge would find in her favour immediately. Agreed?

Constructive dismissal is only relevant if the employee resigns solely in response to a fundamental breach of contract by their employer. It is the hardest type of claim to win.

What should she do now?! Resign immediately?

Why should she resign?


She is unlikely to get a union rep (froim which she would benefit immensely) unless she is a member of a union.

There is currently no case for a no win no fee employment lawyer to take on.

I can't advise on how she should reply to the letter without seeing it.

For now, I would recommend that she reply by stating that she is in receipt of the letter, which has exacerbated her mental health condition, and she is seeking advice over the content.

If she feels it appropriate, she might wish to make an appointment with her doctor.

 

[WaveJumper]

As a rule, the conversation normally goes “not happy with your performance so we going to re-train you (i.e.: going to make it difficult for the person. You will not reach the standard and then they going to terminate you at the end of this process) Unless of course you would like to go, with a payment, might be a month or twos salary (time for you to negotiate)

So, the writings on the wall they want you out, negotiate a figure, they will snap your hand off, they will be required to pay for your legal advice before signing any docs …….and off you go to a new job.

However as all those who have gone before this needs the wisdom of @Newchodge

 

[WaveJumper]

Well there you go I re thresh my screen and up you pop

 

[rlellie14]

As a rule, the conversation normally goes “not happy with your performance so we going to re-train you (i.e.: going to make it difficult for the person. You will not reach the standard and then they going to terminate you at the end of this process) Unless of course you would like to go, with a payment, might be a month or twos salary (time for you to negotiate)

So, the writings on the wall they want you out, negotiate a figure, they will snap your hand off, they will be required to pay for your legal advice before signing any docs …….and off you go to a new job.

However as all those who have gone before this needs the wisdom of @Newchodge

thanks... agree writing is on the wall. The letter also said they would only pay for legal fees AFTER she's signed her acceptance of the letter

 

[rlellie14]

I don't understand your post.


What agreement?


Constructive dismissal is only relevant if the employee resigns solely in response to a fundamental breach of contract by their employer. It is the hardest type of claim to win.


Why should she resign?


She is unlikely to get a union rep (froim which she would benefit immensely) unless she is a member of a union.

There is currently no case for a no win no fee employment lawyer to take on.

I can't advise on how she should reply to the letter without seeing it.

For now, I would recommend that she reply by stating that she is in receipt of the letter, which has exacerbated her mental health condition, and she is seeking advice over the content.

If she feels it appropriate, she might wish to make an appointment with her doctor.

Thanks, in answer to your questions...
1) What agreement? ... her agreement to their proposal to go quietly
2) Why should she resign? ... because they are making working there extremely uncomfortable, her boss wants her out, not nice to work in those conditions

 

[Newchodge]

Thanks, in answer to your questions...
1) What agreement? ... her agreement to their proposal to go quietly
2) Why should she resign? ... because they are making working there extremely uncomfortable, her boss wants her out, not nice to work in those conditions

First of all she is legally entitled to 10 weeks notice pay. Plus any ourstanding holiday pay.

If she agrees to resign and sign an agreement removing her right to take an employment tribunal, called a settlement agreement, the agreement would only be valid if they gave her something to which she is not legally entitled. Called consideration. How much consideration, on top of her legally required notice pay and holiday pay, are they offering to make this agreement legal? She cannot be bound by that agreement unless she has received independent legal advice about its content before signing. The agreement should include the amount of legal fees for which the employer will be legally responsible.

I strongly suggest she visit her doctor and describes her feelings of worthlessness and anxiety that have been caused by the behaviour of her employers.

What are they doing that makes working there extremely uncomfortable? Tell the doctor about that as well.

 

[simon field]

And, what is the other side to this story, eh?

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

And, what is the other side to this story, eh?

Well It might the best employee that anybody has ever had and they have not been treated fair

On the hand the employee might be bloody useless

What one is most likely to be sacked eh?

 

[Newchodge]

Well It might the best employee that anybody has ever had and they have not been treated fair

On the hand the employee might be bloody useless

What one is most likely to be sacked eh?

Or it might be that someone the employers liked had indicated they were leaving. The employers recruited a replacement, but now their blue eyed person has decided to stay, so they need a vacancy to put the new recruit into.

Or it may be that the employers are planning to make devastating changes to the workforce and need, first, to get rid of managers who will assist their staff who are being shafted.

Or anything ....

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

The new director could be from China ...or an alien ?